What Nationality Is He?

[Grubster]

On 12/3/2016 at 9:58 PM, sanemax said:

 

    Just to confrim tht we are talking about the same thing and wires havent been crossed along the way :

   You were not married to your childs mother and therefore had no legal rights at ll over the child .

   You didnt go to Court to obtain any legal rights over the child

You just got your child a passport, took him to the airport and flew away without any permission from the childs legal guardian or the Courts .

    Immigration at the airport accepted a birth certificate and they didnt question why he didnt have an entry visa in his passport .

Even though legally you were not the childs guardian and you had no legal right to the child and therefore the child isnt legally yours, the child belongs solely to its mother , you were still able to take someone elses child out of Thailand with just an empty passport and a birth certificate ?

   Is that correct ?

     

I believe the PO said that the child has his surname on the birth certificate does this not make a difference? I think the laws may very well be different when No Thai is involved. He may well have every right to the child.

[ThaiWai]

4 hours ago, catman20 said:

read the first sentence and thought straight away, now here is a relationship built on trust.    

 

No kidding.  Not to mention I put more thought into preparing a sandwich than these guy put into making a child.

[ThaiWai]

3 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

It makes no difference where a child is born, the child is the nationality of the parents, either registered in the nationality of one parent or can have duel nationality if each parent are of different nationalities. For example; if my father is British, my mother German and I am born in Russia, that doesn`t make me a Russian. 

 

No, but it does make you a communist with no sense of humor and bad teeth.

[sanemax]

On 12/3/2016 at 7:43 PM, brewsterbudgen said:

 

 

 

 

  

[HooHaa]

On 12/3/2016 at 7:13 PM, sanemax said:

 

    I did mean on the very first time that you take a Thai born Child out from Thailand on a Foreign PP . You cannot just get the Child a PP and then leave Thailand .

   The Child would have no entry stamp in his PP and immigration wouldnt let him leave .

    You would need to obtain legal documents allowing him to be taken out of Thailand and his mothers consent would be required .

This is the procedure for ummarried Fathers, things may be different if you are married to the mother

 

 

why, i did it with mine. born to a thai national, thai bith cert, no thai passport issued, left country on Canada passport 3 days after it was received.

i am proudly unmarried by the way.

[Deepinthailand]

So my first child born in Malta to UK Father, lybian mother. Maltese birth certificate. now UK and Lybian Passports. Now I understand from authorities in UK she is also entitled to a Maltese passport. I've heard of dual nationally but never triple. She is going to apply and see what happens.

This could easily happen here UK father Cambodian mother Thai birth certificate ? ?

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Grubster said:

I believe the PO said that the child has his surname on the birth certificate does this not make a difference? I think the laws may very well be different when No Thai is involved. He may well have every right to the child.

 

    Having the same surname isnt legally binding also children born in Thailand are subject to Thai laws , whichever their Nationality .

   Thai law states that unmarried fathers no absolutely no rights to the child at all , so, to get those legal rights, he would have either have to have gotten the mothers permission and/or gone to a Court of law to obtain them

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

So my first child born in Malta to UK Father, lybian mother. Maltese birth certificate. now UK and Lybian Passports. Now I understand from authorities in UK she is also entitled to a Maltese passport. I've heard of dual nationally but never triple. She is going to apply and see what happens.

This could easily happen here UK father Cambodian mother Thai birth certificate ? ?

 

   Apart from you need at least one Thai parent for the child to be able to obtain Thai citizenship/ID .

   Simply being born in Thailand doesnt make you a Thai and you wouldnt have any rights to obtain  Thai nationality

[Grubster]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

    Having the same surname isnt legally binding also children born in Thailand are subject to Thai laws , whichever their Nationality .

   Thai law states that unmarried fathers no absolutely no rights to the child at all , so, to get those legal rights, he would have either have to have gotten the mothers permission and/or gone to a Court of law to obtain them

I think you may be right or wrong on this, perhaps the poster can enlighten us later.

[sanemax]

13 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

 

 

why, i did it with mine. born to a thai national, thai bith cert, no thai passport issued, left country on Canada passport 3 days after it was received.

i am proudly unmarried by the way.

 

    What did immigration say at the border when you turned up with the child with an empty passport (without an  entry stamp)?

   Was it an issue ?

Did you have to show any legal documents or permission from the Mother?

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I think you may be right or wrong on this, perhaps the poster can enlighten us later.

 

   I do know that I am correct when I state the law .

But as we all know, some laws in Thailand are not adhered too .

Taking a child without the legal guardians permission is child abduction , but it seems that immigration are not concerned by this 

[HooHaa]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

    What did immigration say at the border when you turned up with the child with an empty passport (without an  entry stamp)?

   Was it an issue ?

Did you have to show any legal documents or permission from the Mother?

 

absolutely nothing, child's name in passport matched mine, they stamped us through.

i did have a letter from the mother, passport and id copies of hers signed and child's thai birth cert,  and ability to contact her for verification if necessary, but never produced it as was not asked. as a caveat this was bout 5 years ago and child was 4.

[Deepinthailand]

24 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   Apart from you need at least one Thai parent for the child to be able to obtain Thai citizenship/ID .

   Simply being born in Thailand doesnt make you a Thai and you wouldnt have any rights to obtain  Thai nationality

Now I was under the impression from various sources that all that is needed for a thai ID card is a Thai birth certificate. With that everything else comes easy. So surley if the child has a thai birth certificate it follows said child when old enough can apply for and get a thai ID card

Edited December 6, 2016 by Deepinthailand

[sanemax]

Just now, Deepinthailand said:

Now I was under the impression from various sources that all that is needed for a thai ID card is a birth certificate. With that everything else comes easy. So surley if the child has a thai birth certificate it follows said child when old enough can apply for and get a thai ID card

 

  Nope, that is incorrect , A Thai birth certificate doesnt give you a right to Thai Citizenship/ID card or anything at all .

   The OP has stated that his child B/C has "Non Thai" written on it , so the child isnt eligible for subsidized hospital treatment .

   Although it is possible for non Thai born people born in Thailand to obtain Thai citizenship at a future date , if they can prove that they were born here, went to school here and have never been abroad, although its possible to obtain Thai citizenship this way, it isnt guaranteed  

[Deepinthailand]

Thank you will take it under advisement  cheers

[Grubster]

27 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   I do know that I am correct when I state the law .

But as we all know, some laws in Thailand are not adhered too .

Taking a child without the legal guardians permission is child abduction , but it seems that immigration are not concerned by this 

That may be child abduction but I can tell you that I took my daughter  who was under full custody of my ex wife on several foreign trips with only her birth certificate with my name on it. No written permission from the ex.  This was in the US so maybe different.

[Grubster]

If you came here with your pregnant girlfriend from any country and she gave birth, when the two of you had to go back to work you could not take the baby with you. Sorry I'm not buying that. Maybe it is just a birth certificate screw up and needs to be changed to Mayanmar  or whatever his nationality is. 

[sanemax]

36 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

 

absolutely nothing, child's name in passport matched mine, they stamped us through.

i did have a letter from the mother, passport and id copies of hers signed and child's thai birth cert,  and ability to contact her for verification if necessary, but never produced it as was not asked. as a caveat this was bout 5 years ago and child was 4.

 

   Thanks for the info .

I did get my info from a lawyer and from Immigration themselves , but I suppose that they would be obliged to tell me the law, rather than the reality .

    

[chilli42]

I know nothing about Australian laws.  However, I would respectfully suggest that you do what has to be done to obtain an Australian passport for the child.  Life as a stateless person will be a nightmare for them when they are older.  I can say with certainty that a child born under the circumstances you mention would be entitled to Canadian citizenship with very few additional questions asked vs "normal" circumstances.

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

So my first child born in Malta to UK Father, lybian mother. Maltese birth certificate. now UK and Lybian Passports. Now I understand from authorities in UK she is also entitled to a Maltese passport. I've heard of dual nationally but never triple. She is going to apply and see what happens.

This could easily happen here UK father Cambodian mother Thai birth certificate ? ?

Of course people can have multiple citizenships, depending on their own cicrcumstances

For example:

1. Born in the USA - American citizenship by birth
2. Father born is another country - citizenship by descent from the father
3. Mother born is another country - citizenship by descent from the mother
4. Married to a national of another country that allows citizenship through marriage - citizenship by marriage

 

That's four already. Make a habit of marrying foreign women (if you're a billionaire, say), and you keep on collecting them

 

And that's without migrating legally to yet another country and gaining citizenship that way. There's also the grandparents' route in some countries - the Republic of Ireland if I recall correctly. Good heavens, if you're not in double figures already clearly you're not even trying

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, Grubster said:

If you came here with your pregnant girlfriend from any country and she gave birth, when the two of you had to go back to work you could not take the baby with you. Sorry I'm not buying that. Maybe it is just a birth certificate screw up and needs to be changed to Mayanmar  or whatever his nationality is. 

 

   You must understand that this is quite a complex subject, because there are so many variables and vague laws of which some are not enforced .

   Some people living here in Thailand , live here legally, but they dont have citizenship , but they do have certain rights .

   A pregnant female coming to Thailand and giving birth and then leaving to go home would be in a different situation to an adult  female born in Thailand and living here without citizenship and her giving birth .

   There are so many variables that you cannot compare two different situations.

Anyway, from the example that you gave : The mother would have legal custody over the child, so, there would be no issue with the mother going abroad with that child.

   Also, Birth certificates state WHERE you were born , which Country , you cannot write "Myanmar" on a Thai birth certificate 

[Grubster]

12 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   You must understand that this is quite a complex subject, because there are so many variables and vague laws of which some are not enforced .

   Some people living here in Thailand , live here legally, but they dont have citizenship , but they do have certain rights .

   A pregnant female coming to Thailand and giving birth and then leaving to go home would be in a different situation to an adult  female born in Thailand and living here without citizenship and her giving birth .

   There are so many variables that you cannot compare two different situations.

Anyway, from the example that you gave : The mother would have legal custody over the child, so, there would be no issue with the mother going abroad with that child.

   Also, Birth certificates state WHERE you were born , which Country , you cannot write "Myanmar" on a Thai birth certificate 

Well it sounds to me like the OP is planning on her coming with or at least cooperating.  Yes I am aware it is complicated and I hope it works out well. I think it is that none of us here really know the law on this and as I said before I hope the PO enlightens us on the procedure to get this done.   Maybe even a doctor can get it done for him who knows. I don't think we could find a birth certificate that says none in the Nationality space, unknown maybe. I'm also quite sure that if you had your baby here with your girl from home they would put your nationality in that space.  Yes it would also state the place of birth.

[catman20]

7 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

yes, I wondered how come no one so far commented on that... I was just about to ask the op WHY...

cos most men here are besotted by the girlfriends and there own EGO would not allow them to thing otherwise about their girl. (shes different) 

Edited December 6, 2016 by catman20

[sanemax]

14 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I don't think we could find a birth certificate that says none in the Nationality space, unknown maybe.

 

     I have one right here . Written across the top in bold lettering it states "Non Thai"

[Grubster]

14 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

     I have one right here . Written across the top in bold lettering it states "Non Thai"

I meant to say in the west.   The doctor fills these out there and if they do here I'm sure they would put what you wanted if not Thai. Did you discuss this with you doctor?

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I meant to say in the west.   The doctor fills these out there and if they do here I'm sure they would put what you wanted if not Thai. Did you discuss this with you doctor?

 

  Whatever happens in any other Country is quite irrelevant to what happened in Thailand .

   Doctors /Hospitals do not give out Birth Certificates , you have to go a Government office to get a B/C .

   The mother has to show her Thai I/D, which is then written on the B/C .

No Thai I/D then Not  a Thai national .

[brewsterbudgen]

 
  Whatever happens in any other Country is quite irrelevant to what happened in Thailand .
   Doctors /Hospitals do not give out Birth Certificates , you have to go a Government office to get a B/C .
   The mother has to show her Thai I/D, which is then written on the B/C .
No Thai I/D then Not  a Thai national .

Correct. My son's Thai birth certificate clearly states he is not Thai!

[Grubster]

40 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

  Whatever happens in any other Country is quite irrelevant to what happened in Thailand .

   Doctors /Hospitals do not give out Birth Certificates , you have to go a Government office to get a B/C .

   The mother has to show her Thai I/D, which is then written on the B/C .

No Thai I/D then Not  a Thai national .

So from there forward your nationality is    Not a Thai national      Strange but I guess I believe it.

[sanemax]

19 minutes ago, Grubster said:

So from there forward your nationality is    Not a Thai national      Strange but I guess I believe it.

 

   They are classified as "Aliens", Stateless people .

There are an estimated 3 million stateless people living in Thailand , mostly living close to the borders in the north , they re legally allowed to live in Thailand but they have severe restrictions 

[PattayaAJF]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

     I have one right here . Written across the top in bold lettering it states "Non Thai"

as do i as well .. getting my son's Australian Passport and Citizenship by Descent Certificate was a walk in the park .. just fill out a few forms .. no mention of his mother (who is Cambodian) except to get her name, DoB and Citizenship correct (which can be done with either her passport or Cambodian ID Card) .. took 12 days to get the Citizenship Certificate and then another 2 weeks to get his passport and "bob's your uncle" .. so to speak .. we have traveled on a few occasions and immigration have never questioned anything .. the first exit (as he had no entry stamp in his clan passport) immigration had a look at his Thai Birth Certificate (with NON-THAI status) and proceeded to stamp him in as of his date of birth .. then stamped him out ..