Seeking recommendations/advice on ISP Packages and/or Modem/Router upgrades

[gdhm]

Hi

Whilst my knowledge/capability is reasonably good at understanding and sorting out PC/Window 10 related issues, regretfully my knowledge and therefore decision making regarding ISP Plans and Router Modems (Cable AND Wireless) is NOT and I am hoping I can get some advice on what is best for my needs.

Our two PCs

My Home Desktop PC runs Win 10 Pro (x64) and my old Win XP PC is used by my 13 year old son and my wife who both use that PC 95% of the time for Internet access (hence why the old O/S and CPU speeds etc. are not a primary issue for them (YET!!! ).

 

Our Modem is a TP-Link TD-W8961ND,  300 Mbps Wireless N ADSL2+Modem Router with 4 LAN ports. It is not IPv6 compatible and I do not think it is a model that can be upgraded itself.  Currently I use 2 of the ports for Ethernet cable connection to my PC (2 metre cable) and my son's PC 6 metre Ethernet cable . Currently we are not using Wireless at all.

 

In our house we only CURRENTLY have 1 SMART Panasonic TV and it is not connected to the Internet BUT although in a different room to where the 2 PCs are, it can be VERY EASILY connected to a 3rd LAN Ethernet cable as only  7 metres further along from where my Sons' Ethernet cable has been run to so it would require a  14 metre Ethernet cable .

My Bedroom TV is an 8 year old Samsung CRT and the TVs in my PC room and son's Bedroom are bother basic 22 inch 4:3 CRT's (one being 12 years old),  So I am expecting the likelihood of up to 2 more smart TV's in our house over the next year, the 3rd in the PC room can be a dumb TV of course.   2 upstairs TVs would probably be run off Wi-Fi (certainly one would have to be).

 

OUR ISP

ISP is 3BB which I have been very happy with (mostly) so I would not be willingly  thinking of changing ISP. I have had for 9 years (the long time no longer  available) 3MB/1MB Premier package.  I have always paid  ฿1166 monthly since I started (it was upgraded for free only once (about 7 years ago) from 2MB/1MB to the current 3MB/1MB but never since despite many other cheaper packages having had free updates ). I have found it to be excellent for my occasional (but sometimes important Skype calls to UK).

 

3BB Street cabling and to house

I am 99% certain 3BB updated the cables in our soi and area to Fibre 2-3 years ago however between the junction box on my narrow soi's Electric Pole(other side of soi opposite our house) and our house it has been  connected to share the original cable that feeds our landline TOT house phone.  3BB did suggest connecting only 3BB to our house, but I pointed out we could not lose the telephone line which is TOT AND all our electric, Local cable and telephone lines from the Soi Electric Pole come to our house across the very narrow soi UNDERGROUND and I told them I did not see how they could run another fibre line via the same route and then though the car port ceiling and into our house. So I think (looking up things on the Internet) that the maximum I can get would be maybe VDSL using the current lines.  I am guessing my modem being ADSL is the limiting factor on this maximum.  I am not even sure as I am using the the phone line whether I only get ADSL and have lost all benefits of the Streets Fibre cables.

 

If it made sense I suppose I would be willing to allow a new internet cable to be run to our house high above the road (providing no supporting pole needs to be in in our garden).

 

Current Performance from my Location Amphoe Muang, Khon Kaen City of my TP-Link TD-W8961ND,  300 Mbps Wireless N ADSL2+Modem Router, Ethernet connection to my PC (with my son's PC NOT running) over my current 3BB 3MB/1MB Premier (obsolete) package is:

 

Pingtest.net  tests  (6:00PM to 6:15PM THAI TIME):

Ho Chi Min City, Vietnam (Local Time 6.00PM)----Test: Packet Loss 0%, Ping 128ms,  Jitter 1ms, Grade B

Quezon City, Philippines  (Local Time  7: 03PM----Test: Packet Loss 0%, Ping 89%ms,  Jitter 1ms, Grade B

Sydney Australia (Local time 10:06PM)----------------Test: Packet Loss 0%, Ping 189%ms,  Jitter 1ms, Grade B

San Francisco, USA (Local time 3:09AM)------------- Test: Packet Loss 0%, Ping 240%ms,  Jitter 1ms, Grade C

New York, USA Local time 6:12 AM)---------------------Test: Packet Loss 0%, Ping 308%ms,  Jitter 0ms, Grade D

Maidenhead, UK (local time 11:15AM)-----------------Test: Packet Loss 0%, Ping 272%ms,  Jitter 1ms, Grade C

I believe the Packet Loss and Jitter results suggest I have a VERY GOOD LINE connection as do the ping tests for countries in SE Asia. I do nto know if UK, US and Australian pings tests are expected par for the course at these distances.

 

Speedtest.net test (6:30pm THAI TIME):

Ping 33ms, Download 2.97MB, Upload 0.87MB      (Package Max 3mb/1mb)

 

Considering Premier has fewer users than the current cheaper packages I find it astonishing that whatever day or time I have done speed tests the Download/Upload speeds are ALWAYS about the same.  Upload is never better. This seems to suggest the other users I share with, no matter what Dynamic IP address and group is allocated to me (be it 3:00 am, 10am, 2pm, 7pm, midnight weekday or weekend that the other users are always behaving the same. I do not understand, as I would have thought a speedtest at 3am Thai time weekday would produce near maximum speeds and certainly nearer to max 1 MB upload speeds.

 

I am seriously wondering what Download and Upload speeds 3BB users are getting with normal packages with more users per group but with max speeds of especially Download MUCh greater than what I have. Maybe some readers have th asnwers to this who user these packages

 

Current 3BB Packages on offer

FIBRE

http://www.3bb.co.th/3bb/product/details/45469

I have no idea from the info whether suitable to International use or if more than one port connection allowed. I assume a normal Modem Router can be used (but I dso not know for sure)

 

VDSL ??

http://www.3bb.co.th/3bb/product/details/45472

http://www.3bb.co.th/3bb/product/details/45474

 

https://www.3bb.co.th/signup/register_en.php?pkg=

This last link seems to be more informative but there are still gaps in info (e.g. what are first two cheaper options (Fibre maybe)?

Is 3BB VDSL 30MB/10MB  or higher the ONLY current 3BB option that permit more than one port connection?. 

Does the VDSL require totally different equipment to modem Routers used for Fibre? 

There is no mention for ANY of the packages whether there are less Users in group for any of the packages.  How mnay numbers of users per group per package?> 

 

MY thoughts (rightly or wrongly) wonder that IF all current packages have more users per group than my Premier package, does that mean 3BB nowadays only provides a lesser performance/service nowadays OR does massively higher Download speeds to what I have with my Premier package override the higher number of users allocated per group or, are there other technical factors I am unaware of that must be taken into consideration.

 

As you can see my knowledge on such matters is limited (if not confused). The 3BB sales staff that I have spoken to, with all respect do not seem to have a level or understanding to offer me salient advice for me to be able to make a decision. What they do say id IF I change I will not be allowed to go back to Premier 3MB/1MB if it turns out that package was better for me than the new packages on offer.

This means with inadequate info from the sBB sales desks, my lack of understanding I have to remain with my relatively high cost, very slow speeds but less users per group or take a guess. I am really hoping there are members here capable, knowledgable  and willing to to sort the wood from the trees for me. Better still if using 3BB packages and know by good experience the benefits/ advantages/neagatives of the various new Package options.

 

My Requirements based on CURRENT Use (and anticipated future) are:

MY PC

1) Easy and quick access to mostly International Websites (especially UK and US).  I am on my PC an average of 7 hours a day and I do NOT speak write or read Thai so 95% of websites I access are International, the other 5% being English language Thai sites (bank, news etc.)

2) Streaming (like Youtube etc.

3) Good Skype telephony (do not use webcam)

4) Personally I have ZERO interest in online Multi or single player games but as my soins get solder HE MAY.

 

Son's PC (current use only)

1) Primary use Streaming You tube and similar

2) Visiting Thai websites

 

Smart TVs

To be honest, I very much doubt any would be used for PC type activites, BUT would be used almost entirely for Multimedia and streaming of live broadcasts (both international and Thai). They MAY be used in the future by my son for games playing be it basic single player Flash type games or more complex online games subject to TV being up to task on lag, graphics and processing capability etc.) 

 

-----

What is best for me to consider for upgrading: 

I would wish to stick with 3BB. I am happy to to stick with TP-Link  and by a newer model (4 port and Wireless IPv6 capable new Model if considered desirable unless readers have any salient recommendation of other Brands/models.

 

I paid for Premier because at the time I took it out I was told it was the only realistic option if I wished to primarily access International Websites AND it was a package I could add more PC to, AND it had a much smaller User numbers per connection group  than the cheaper  Indie (I think they were called) packages that were intended mainly for Users seeking Thai Website access mostly.

 

I have recently enquired at two different Shopping Mall 3BB stands what options I have to upgrade, because I told them I believed even though Premier has less Users per group I felt 3MB/1MB unchanged for 7 years and costing ฿1,166 per month is probably poor value by today's standards, costs and speeds.  I was told I still had the best package for my needs without paying higher costs than I already am.

 

I find this hard to believe to be honest. Most foreign 3BB users requiring 95% international Website usage and doing a lot of streaming or games play could not have got Premier for most of the last 7 years so what are they all using, that they consider perfectly OK and what cost and speeds are they getting? 

I am told my Premier has much less people per Connection Group,  but I have no idea what that number is or what numbers per group are on each new 3BB Package currently on offer with their much faster maximum speeds and often low costs.  I do not even know if I am really on Premier.   I say this because after fixing a line issue  afew years back and changing a faulty 3BB modem they inadvertently increased my download speeds. When I phoned to query this, I was told they had mistakenly NOT put me back on Premier and when they corrected their error  I was back to 3MB/1MB. For the couple of hours I was on the standard but faster package I cannot say I noticed  any issues or lack of speed on International Websites. All I know is thta even with less user per group my Premier package doe snot seem as fast as it used to be (how would I know if they have inadvertently taken me off Premier and I now share my connection with the normal number of user per group.  I am not saying this is the case, but there is no way I could know and I am not aware of a way to confirm myself. 

 

Maybe someone (still ) reading this post can explain to me: 

Apart from more users per connection Group on a current standard 3BB package)

1) what else makes some cheaper packages supposedly suitable for mainly Thailand websites but not  International websites?

2) what makes some packages more suitable than others for streaming?

3) why are some packages not able to service more than one Ethernet connection?  Do 3BB and other ISPs somehow physically block the use of more than one connection via the same package/modem? and if so why?:

 

I feel 3MB (even with only ONE PC being used at any one time) is borderline inadequate for HD streaming and surely inadequate if 2 PCs are on the internet streaming at the same. I would think even if one was not streaming (Premier package or not) the buffering we get is down to us sharing only 3MB/1MB which is probably totally inadequate especially for streaming HD 720p or1080p). Maybe someone can advise minimum recommended Download/Upload speeds for streaming of sites in HD on 2 PCs at the same time?

 

IF, you are still with me, thanks for your time reading and for any helpful advice/clarity of understanding on salient factors you may be able to offer me. I have given so much details because I did not wish to ask members for help and advice having supplied inadequate information. 

 

Kind Regards

Edited December 9, 2016 by gdhm

[KittenKong]

This explains how contention works: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contention_ratio

 

Though in your case the answer is much simpler: your speed never goes above 3/1 because it is throttled to 3/1 by your ISP. The same technique is applied to the packages that work well in Thailand but badly overseas: they throttle the international bandwidth (when it isnt so poor as to not need throttling anyway).

 

If you want to stream real HD you would need more than 3mbs (even assuming that only you are using one device). 4 or 5mbs should do it, depending on the source, plus extra for other usage and, of course, double if you want to stream two different HD transmissions at the same time. And if your upload speed is capped to 1mbs then you may start running into problems with insufficient bandwidth being available for acknowledgements and requests.

 

If fibre to the home (not VDSL) is available in your location then you should probably go for it. Any real FTTH should be better than your existing 3/1 package. In fact I suspect that my bog-standard 3BB ADSL 18/1 package is better than your 3/1 premium package, and cheaper too.

 

You could use an ethernet switch and a 7m cable instead of a second 14m cable, if you like.

[RedCardinal]

There are really 2 separate but related issues here:

 

1. Your ISP;

2. Your home network;

 

Starting with (1), I think for the same money you're paying you should be able to get either 50Mb or 100Mb home service. I expect you might get some small routing and contention benefits paying for your current package, but these are just swamped by the bandwidth benefits of newer packages. As far as Skype and browsing international websites is concerned neither is an issue for me, and I have both true and AIS service in my home.

 

Now to point (2), this isn't so clear cut. You don't mention if your son's older computer even sports Wi-Fi. Your also didn't mention smartphones. But based on the potential number of devices that may need to connect its obvious that a wired network with just 4 ports won't cut it. The benefits of Wi-Fi are pretty obvious in this case, and I'm fairly sure you'll love ditching cables. However I think you have to consider also the layout of your home and best placement a WiFi router. For what it's worth I would consider buying your own WiFi router with newer AC protocol. Most ISP-provided routers are cheap and nasty, and placing your own router into the network will immediately reap dividends. I can think of very few cases where employing a good WiFi network isn't superior to a wired network in a home environment.

[KhunBENQ]

On the forum you find many speed test results for different ISPs, packages, test destinations, test methods.

I can hardly remember results for the fibre packages that are worse than your current package.

Rare exceptions in very densely populated areas.

3BB usually comes out well (except that some users have unreal expectations of 100 Mbit/s to overseas and such).

I don't want to heat the discussing by naming/shaming the bad ones.

 

If they supply fiber to the home: get it!

 

Fiber cable to the home:

what's the shortest distance from the street poles to your house?

My fiber cable (ToT) stretches about 15 meters without a supporting pole.

It has a weight of only 28 grams per meter and quite sturdy mechanical support.

So I guess they can span it much further without an extra pole.

But I don't have proof for that

The data-sheet that I took a picture of doesn't say in clear terms (short tension 800N, short cush 1000N/10cm ?).

 

Existing router with fiber:

technically it is possible to use a separate optical/electrical converter and connect to any WiFi router. I have that but seems "exotic".

Nowadays they seem to use all-in-one fiber modems connected via an optical plug?

Good or not?

 

[gdhm]

Thank you KittenKong, RedCardinal & KhunBENQ.  Very interesting and helpful info. 

 

 A few more questions please, based on your input and advice

 

KittenKong

1) You mentioned 4 or 5MB download speeds should do it for HD streaming. Is that assuming only one PC is streaming HD at a time or more> The worst case scenario I could ever envisage would be 2 Pcs and one TV  streaming HD at the same time.

2) Your comment "If fibre to the home (not VDSL) is available in your location then you should probably go for it"  Is this reasoning based on equipment needs or a belief Fibre capability and speeds is more than adequate for all our needs?

3) your comment "You could use an Ethernet switch and a 7m cable instead of a second 14m cable, if you like". Thanks, I did not know this. In my situation another separate cable would be hidden for most of its run behind furniture (as is the current cable to my son's PC only 1½ metres even partly visible).  May I ask KittenKong whether there is any downside with a switch and extension cable arrangement? Can there be a slow down or interference due to switching, if TV and son's PC using the same run of cable and  both HD streaming at one time. how does my broadband get

 

RedCardinal

1) You said " I expect you might get some small routing and contention benefits paying for your current package" What other benefits (apart from small number of users) do you believe I MIGHT have with current package.  If the routing benefits are why my package is recommended for International use do you believe the other packages with much higher speeds would/could compensate for lesser routing benefits favouring Thai websites as I (by far the biggest Intnenret user in our house) will accessing mostly foreign website access. Would lesser routing slow things considerably fro me if I was sharing packages most Thais use for mostly Thai website access even though quoted maximum speeds are far higher.

 

2) I'm not into Smartphones AT ALL. My wife and son can barely cope with them as stand alone devices let alone connected to modem or PCs. To be honest, I don't trust Privacy and Security of Smart phones as seems to me too many apps seek to want more permissions and access when installing than SEEM TO ME necessary (wouldn't trust security of data on my PC or smart phone purchases or banking).  I little understand Smart phones but what I have read something called Rooting seems wise but I have read that violates warranties. Googles involvement with Android doe snot add to my confidence on Privacy and secuirty matters either given their desire for gathering info.

 

Why I use Cable, instead of my Modem Routers Wi Fi capability, for our two PCs is certainty of connection quality and consistency AND I consider it  harder to intercept than with Wi Fi (I believe). You however seem to be suggesting the reverse is true in a home environment. 

I have read of Wi Fi hot spots (I barely understand) and I assume these would be good for my wife and son's PC but is there any chance of very nearby neighbours or cars in the soi up to no good could use/access my connection and use as a hot spot or access any of our PCs or Smart phones?

using Wi-Fi connections.

 

KhunBENQ

1) Cable length in through air from Electricity pole, across our soi to nearest upper wall of our house (as nearer car port roof is too low) is 22 metres . I would then need to a further 8 metre length minimum of cable fixed to house to be as concealed as possible and connected to my Modem router in its current location. The cable in the air could sag a LITTLE as it would only go over, soi, main gate, Drive and car port tiled roof to reach nearest upper wall of house. There are not trees in between but it would need to stand up to severe Monsoon storms and heavy high winds at times. 

 

2) My TP-Link modem router is both 4 port Ethernet cable AND Wireless so fibre would be needed to it and then I can use 4 cable ports or Wi-fi or I assume a combination. (No idea of max) I assume 4 (being my ISPs allowance with one of its current packages HOWEVER that is VDSL). The 3BB websites does not say if any of its Fibre packages are suited too International Websites nor whether they allow to 4 connections. (very unhelpful of 3BB)

 

If any readers here use any of the CURRENTLY advertised 3BB packages with up to 4 connection permitted AND suitable with mostly International Websites, Skype (or similar) AND HD streaming is excellent then please let me know:

1) Which package  you use ?

2) Have you any positive/negative observations?

3) Do you have any idea of real  average Download/Uploads speeds attained  by you (especially during weekends, which unsurprising, is when I most notice any slowing down of internet access and poorer streaming

 

Finally, I have no issue with paying up to around ฿1,200 per month if a package meets all my requirements wand has a little future proofing extra capacity. 

3BB would not let me go back to my current Premier package if a new package proves to be worse for me.  So I need to be as certain as I can be that changing my package would not be jumping ou o f the "Frying pan and into the fire"

 

Many thanks all

[KittenKong]

7 hours ago, gdhm said:

KittenKong

1) You mentioned 4 or 5MB download speeds should do it for HD streaming. Is that assuming only one PC is streaming HD at a time or more> The worst case scenario I could ever envisage would be 2 Pcs and one TV  streaming HD at the same time.

2) Your comment "If fibre to the home (not VDSL) is available in your location then you should probably go for it"  Is this reasoning based on equipment needs or a belief Fibre capability and speeds is more than adequate for all our needs?

3) your comment "You could use an Ethernet switch and a 7m cable instead of a second 14m cable, if you like". Thanks, I did not know this. In my situation another separate cable would be hidden for most of its run behind furniture (as is the current cable to my son's PC only 1½ metres even partly visible).  May I ask KittenKong whether there is any downside with a switch and extension cable arrangement? Can there be a slow down or interference due to switching, if TV and son's PC using the same run of cable and  both HD streaming at one time. how does my broadband get

 

1. In that case 5mbs would probably be enough, depending on the nature of the streamed content.

 

2. Fibre to the home should mean fibre all the way to your home with no DSL at all, but in Thailand they sometimes say FTTH when they really mean fibre to some local box then VDSL to your home. This is not the same thing. If you can get real fibre all the way to your home then it should certainly be suitable for your needs, as previously mentioned by me and others, not least because the FTTH packages are generally many times faster than your current DSL for the same price or less. Fibre is also much better than any DSL solution in terms of reliability. VDSL packages may be a bit more iffy and I have retained my 18/1 3BB ADSL rather than switch to (supposedly) much faster 3BB VDSL because the international bandwidth on 3BB VDSL does appear to be heavily throttled in some cases. 3BB staff advised me to retain my ADSL for this reason. My 18/1 3BB ADSL costs me 900B per month, plus VAT, less an 8% discount for paying a year in advance. It works well enough for me and I can do everything I need with it. I'm not aware that there is any specific limit to the number of devices I can use simultaneously with it, though I have never exceeded 5.

But if FTTH was available from 3BB or CAT or TOT in my condo building then I would probably upgrade to it.

 

3. It's six of one and half a dozen of the other. A switch is handy if you dont want to run long extra cables and you dont have spare sockets on your router. If neither of those is a problem then dont worry about it as there will probably not be any noticeable difference in speed between the two solutions. A small switch costs around 400B.

 

[gdhm]

Thanks KittenKong Really helpful extra info. Certainly looks like the way to go.  Think I will go with a 3rd cable to TV as easier and cheaper (and less to break down )

Edited December 11, 2016 by gdhm

[Pib]

Gosh, if 3BB has fiber to your area for 2 to 3 years already which you made it sound like, just go with their 200/50Mb plan for Bt1200/mo versus your current ADSL 3/1 plan for around Bt1100.   Get around a 67 fold increase in download speed and 50 fold increase in upload speed.    Don't worry....your international speed will be much better with a plan much, much faster than your  current 3Mb plan for basically the same price.  

 

Quite a few threads on ThaiVisa showing speed test results for various ISPs, like 3BB, AIS, True, etc.

Here's  topic/posts to start with:

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2016 by Pib

[gdhm]

Thanks very much for this Pib.  

"Gosh, if 3BB has fiber to your area for 2 to 3 years already which you made it sound like". Well this is what I understood via what thye said to my wife and she advised to me. My understanding at the time was that they said they were upgrading all their cables to fibre in the area (we are in Khon Kaen city (well Naimuang to be exact). Now if that does not mean the same sort of Fibre they need for their new Fibre (they sue US spelling) packages, then I am mistaken.

 

I have had a quick look and tried out some of the test sites. I'm struggling to understand some figures and the "Real World" relevance to me. For example Latency 3 or 4ms. the best I got was 38 to 44ms. Better than my pingtest.net results to Phillipines, Quezon of Ping: 89ms so I assume the test servers used are much closer decent server (maybe Singapore which is not offered any more on pingtest.net.). My question Pib however is, would a test run in BKK produce 40ms better Latency results than I get with my test from Khon Kaen or do you think there ar eother factors why I get Pingd of 89 to Quezon City and Latency of 44ms (to unknown servewr where the others on your liks were getting aorunf 3-4ms latency.  Then going on form there is 40 ms difference of any real concern for speeds.  

At 8pm tonight (12-12-16) On http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest

I got                   

 

 

 

I assume BufferBloat is not good but I have no idea whether this would be due to me only having 3mb/1mb maximum speeds, or an indication of another issue.

 

Do you know whether using my phone line between electric Pole (where 3BB fibre cable goes to) and my house defeats all benefits of Fibre unless I extend with fibre cable all the way to modem.

 

2) Even with 200mb/50mb I believe I could only get max of 100mb with my current  TP-Link TD-W8961ND,  300 Mbps Wireless N ADSL2+Modem Router with 4 LAN ports. because its specifications only quotes 10/100mb but not 1000mb.  I am 90% my Motherboard can manage up to 1000mb. I suppose if I get a new Modem I can resolve this AND also get IPv6 capability. Do you concur with my understanding on this.

 

3) I need to check out if the 3BB 200mb/50mb Fibre package allows 4 port connections because if only 1 then that package is a non starter.

 

4) I note 3BB want a ฿3,000 deposit for GPON ONT equipment. I have no idea what they are talking about. Is this just a techie way of saying modem router or whatever? I already have one of their Modems (single port ฿1,000 deposit and have never used it as prefer getting my own equipment.)

 

5) I am NOT questioning the accuracy of your comments Pib "as I am sure they are correct. But I'd like to understand with my poor knowledge on the subject why you are so certain my International access will be much faster with the 200/50mb package". 

I thought for a long time (aided and abetted by 3BB for years having told me I am on the best package for my needs unless I paid a lot more to upgrade my Premier package. My thinking was IF 3BB use connection throttling or Bandwidth limiting on International sites for many of their faster  packages (incl.the 200/50mb package) that they do not with my Premier Package or their new VDSL packages (the only ones 3BB consider suitable for International use) AND IF the maximum amount of concurrent Users per group on the 200mb/50mb package and other packages is far worse than for the Premier package then I would risk being be worse off switching packages (hence why I have been scared to take the plunge despite the much better value and speeds on offer.  Hence why I sought help in this Topic because I realized my understanding may well be flawed.    

 

I assume 3BB must be throttling, or doing something for some packages, otherwise why would they say only one or 2 of their packages are suitable for moderate International use (and in the case of Premier that is not longer available to new customers) . I note 3BB never says "heavy" use). Most of ther 3BB packages (not that there are many currently) suggest them only being suitable for heavy Thai website use and only 1 connection per user

 

As you can tell Pib I struggle to understand these things but am trying hard to do so with the salient factors .

3BB and the other ISPs do not seem very clear about concurrent users per group or what logic they apply in saying some packages are suitable for Thai use and only one or two International (unless they hope ignorant or confuse people like me will keep to premier 3mb/1mb for ฿1,200 p.m rather than getting much better value and performance switching) Nor do they say why most packages cannot use more than one connection (why not, I don't understand why they care if 2 concurrent connections (or more)  I assume reduces proportionality that Users broadband/speeds or whatever. Unfortunately for me, a combination or not speaking Thai and 3BB staff I have spoken to (via my wife) do not seem to either understand what I am actually asking, or more likely do not understand as much as (even) I do as I think many are sales staff and not technical staff.

 

Sorry to ask more questions Pib and I understand if you wish to move on to other Topics.

Regards,

Edited December 12, 2016 by gdhm

[Pib]

Regarding ping/latency, that is just the time it takes your internet signal to reach and the return from whatever server you are testing/pinging to.  The speed of your internet photons/electrons is limited by the speed of light and delay created by the propagation medium (cables) and amplifiers/switches/relays the photons/electrons must travel  through.  Basically the speed of their travel will be about two-thirds that of a speed of light in a vacuum/outer space.   So, the closer a server is to you the faster your ping time will be; the further away the server is the ping time will be slower.    It's basically a law of physics (speed of light) with some propagation delay cause by the cabling/electronics along the way....a 200Mb plan's ping half way around the world  (or just down the road) will be basically the same as a 3Mb plan. 

 

On my AIS Fibre 50/10 plan (fiber all the way to the home) my ping time when testing from my home in Bangkok to a Bangkok server is around 5ms...and when testing to Khon Kan is around 7ms.   If you are getting significantly higher ping time than that then that is all additional delay cause by your router and the servers/network of your ISP.    My ping time to Quezon City, PI was 93ms...basically the same as your 89ms.   And when I tested to another server a minute later in Quezon City I got 124ms...that extra time was not due to my internet photons/electrons traveling any slower than the first ping time test "except" they did get slowed down probably at some server/switch in the PI which was not involved in the first test....could be electronics right the the test server.  Summary: when it comes to ping time whether you are on a good xDSL, Cable/DOCSIS, or Fiber network the ping time will be about the same as all networks are still dealing with the speed of light law.   Closer the test server, the faster (lower) ping you get; further away the test server, the slower (longer) ping time you get.

 

Regarding your DSL Reports speed test, most people on any good network will usually pull the grade score you did, with BufferBloat most likely be a C.   Just to quote from the DSL Reports website regarding the bufferbloat score...and the link below also talks the other score meanings.

 

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/17930

 

Quote

 

Bufferbloat Grades

 

To identify good vs bad bufferbloat the speed test applies grades as follows. ms means milliseconds, and refers to an increase in a measure of round trip delay when your connection is fully utilised.

 

Less than 5ms (average of down bloat and up bloat) - A+

Less than 30ms - A

Less than 60ms - B

Less than 200ms - C

Less than 400ms - D

400ms+ - F

 

(there is no "E" grade).

 

To recap: to get an "A+", ( average(uplift during upload) + average(uplift during download) ) / 2 must be less than 5ms.

 

Currently the majority of people grade "C" or worse. This is because most equipment and software currently in use has bufferbloat issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just for your comparison here's my DSL Reports speedtest results on my AIS Fibre 50/10 plan....I get this type of result 24/7 to Singapore since all Thai ISPs have quality connections/lines to Singapore....now beyond Singapore it a different story since you start dealing with undersea optical lines.   Notice my Bufferbloat is also just a C score on my fibre plan.  Also keep in mind that Bufferlbloat really only comes into play on "upload"; not download.   So unless you are doing a lot of online gaming where you want fastest upload response possible, Bufferbloat is really a non-event for most of your day to day internet use since "downloading/browsing/video streaming/etc., will comprise the bulk of most people's internet use.

 

 

 

I'll address your other questions in a separate post since this post is already pretty long.

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

 

Your Question:  Do you know whether using my phone line between electric Pole (where 3BB fibre cable goes to) and my house defeats all benefits of Fibre unless I extend with fibre cable all the way to modem.

 

My Answer: Not it don't all the benefits of fibre.   With an ADSL system like you have now, probably the fastest speed you could possibly get is a 20Mb plan.  But with a VDSL plan you can get up to a 50Mb plan and even 70Mb plan with a few ISPs...but 50Mb is more common and that seems to be the fastest VDSL plan provided by 3BB.    Now if you go with the 200Mb plan, they may be able to run fibre all the way to your residence assuming you live in house or a low-rise (just a couple of stories).   Plus with fibre lines they are "passive" in nature....that is, no or very few active electronic components that require electrical power.   Basically you just have light traveling down little fibre pipes and going through passive fibre optics splitters.   Chances of lightning running in on fibre is close to zero as fibre is non-conductive; I didn't say zero chance because the fibre optic cable may still have a metal "messenger" wire used solely for support along the poles...but that metal messenger is cut off before/or shortly after entering  your residence and has no electrical connection to the router.

 

Question: 2) Even with 200mb/50mb I believe I could only get max of 100mb with my current  TP-Link TD-W8961ND,  300 Mbps Wireless N ADSL2+Modem Router with 4 LAN ports. because its specifications only quotes 10/100mb but not 1000mb.  I am 90% my Motherboard can manage up to 1000mb. I suppose if I get a new Modem I can resolve this AND also get IPv6 capability. Do you concur with my understanding on this.

 

Answer:  You'll get a new router with your 3BB plan whether it's a fibre input router or XVDSL input router.....use it.  Your TP Link router is an older ADSL router....yes, it can only handle up 100Mb speeds via it's ethernet ports and since it also just a 2.4Ghz Wifi router, it probably can't provide somewhere between 50 to 100Mb "max" via Wifi...probably closer to only 50Mb max via Wifi.   Probably time to retire the TP Link router and get a router that provides 5Ghz AC Wifi capability also as you'll get much higher Wifi speed capability and less interference than with the older 2.4Ghz N technology.  Even if  your laptop don't have 5Ghz capability or only a 100Mb ethernet port, a Wifi USB adapter costing around Bt1000 (or less) will fix that problem as you then be able to get 200Mb Wifi speed....I know, as that is what I had to do with one of my laptops which only had a 100Mb ethernet port and a 2.4Ghz Wifi chip.    With the USB Wifi adatper I bought for Bt850 I can now obtain download speeds of approx 275Mb from my home server....and I hate having to  use ethernet cables since I'm a laptop guy and like to move around in the house with my laptop.   I bought the Edimax AC600 EW7811UTC...works like a charm....use it on my Win 10 laptop....no special driver needed...plug and play on Win 10.

 

 

Question: 3) I need to check out if the 3BB 200mb/50mb Fibre package allows 4 port connections because if only 1 then that package is a non starter.

 

Answer: I'm sure whatever router they provided with have 4 output ports...that pretty much standard nowdays.   And if  your get their 200Mb plan/fibre all the way to your house it will probably be a Huawei HG8245H....that what they provided another 3BB TV  poster...it what AIS provided me...and it think that's one of the routers TOT provides for it's fibre plan.  

 

Question 4) I note 3BB want a ฿3,000 deposit for GPON ONT equipment. I have no idea what they are talking about. Is this just a techie way of saying modem router or whatever? I already have one of their Modems (single port ฿1,000 deposit and have never used it as prefer getting my own equipment.)

 

Answer: Yes, Gigabit-capble Passive Optical Network (GPON) Optical Network Terminal (ONT) is just the techie way of saying a high bandwidth fiber line running to the ONT (i..e, router) at the residence.   Every technology has it own technical/geeks words and acronyms.  The "passive" word just means the fibre line consists of "non-active" electrical components like on DOCSIS/Cable and xVDSL copper lines which have electrical amplifers/switches/DSLAMs/etc.    Yeap, a fibre line it pretty much just a fibre pipe that goes through some passive fibre optics splitters (kinda like how a prism breaks up sunlight in various streams of different color light...the prism is a "passive" device).   Yes, 3BB does appear to require a ONT (router) deposit..and I think if the account is put in a forangs name they require 12 months advance payment...probably best to put in a Thai name then the 12 month advance payment is not required.  Just as FYI, I'm a farang, my AIS Fibre account is in my name and I didn't have to play any ONT deposit or installation charge....nor an advance payment....zero upfront...just the one month bill that arrives in the mail monthly.

 

Question:  5) I am NOT questioning the accuracy of your comments Pib "as I am sure they are correct. But I'd like to understand with my poor knowledge on the subject why you are so certain my International access will be much faster with the 200/50mb package". 

I thought for a long time (aided and abetted by 3BB for years having told me I am on the best package for my needs unless I paid a lot more to upgrade my Premier package. My thinking was IF 3BB use connection throttling or Bandwidth limiting on International sites for many of their faster  packages (incl.the 200/50mb package) that they do not with my Premier Package or their new VDSL packages (the only ones 3BB consider suitable for International use) AND IF the maximum amount of concurrent Users per group on the 200mb/50mb package and other packages is far worse than for the Premier package then I would risk being be worse off switching packages (hence why I have been scared to take the plunge despite the much better value and speeds on offer.  Hence why I sought help in this Topic because I realized my understanding may well be flawed.   

 

Answer: As I said in another post, whether to go with the  3BB 200Mb fibre plan that gives  you 67 times the domestic download speed and definitely more international speed based on results posted by other TV members than your current 3BB 3Mb ADSL plan which costs basically the same per month would seem like an easy decision to make.   My gosh, i was surprised to see someone was still on a 3Mb plan (even in Thailand).

 

 

 

[RedCardinal]

On 12/10/2016 at 4:23 PM, gdhm said:

1) You said " I expect you might get some small routing and contention benefits paying for your current package" What other benefits (apart from small number of users) do you believe I MIGHT have with current package.  If the routing benefits are why my package is recommended for International use do you believe the other packages with much higher speeds would/could compensate for lesser routing benefits favouring Thai websites as I (by far the biggest Intnenret user in our house) will accessing mostly foreign website access. Would lesser routing slow things considerably fro me if I was sharing packages most Thais use for mostly Thai website access even though quoted maximum speeds are far higher.

 

2) I'm not into Smartphones AT ALL. My wife and son can barely cope with them as stand alone devices let alone connected to modem or PCs. To be honest, I don't trust Privacy and Security of Smart phones as seems to me too many apps seek to want more permissions and access when installing than SEEM TO ME necessary (wouldn't trust security of data on my PC or smart phone purchases or banking).  I little understand Smart phones but what I have read something called Rooting seems wise but I have read that violates warranties. Googles involvement with Android doe snot add to my confidence on Privacy and secuirty matters either given their desire for gathering info.

 

Why I use Cable, instead of my Modem Routers Wi Fi capability, for our two PCs is certainty of connection quality and consistency AND I consider it  harder to intercept than with Wi Fi (I believe). You however seem to be suggesting the reverse is true in a home environment. 

I have read of Wi Fi hot spots (I barely understand) and I assume these would be good for my wife and son's PC but is there any chance of very nearby neighbours or cars in the soi up to no good could use/access my connection and use as a hot spot or access any of our PCs or Smart phones?

using Wi-Fi connections.

1. I'm clutching at straws to find any real benefits in staying on old low bandwidth Premier connection.  As others have said, move to fiber ASAP if available.

 

2. Assuming smart phones out of conversation, and moving to WiFi:

 

 - worrying about interception shouldn't be something you do.  So long as you set up encryption on your WiFi network you'll be fine.  Connection quality etc also much improved these days, and so long as you locate your access points well within your home structure you should be fine.  You should ensure that you do have your WiFi network locked down, and then no neighbours etc. will ever be able to use.

[Pib]

Yea, no one will be intercepting your Wifi signal as long as you setup your Wifi for "WPA2 AES encryption with a strong password" of your choosing.  Super easy and quick to setup...just a couple of settings in your router Wifi menu area.   And be sure your family understands not to share the password with others....otherwise those others will be able to logon onto your Wifi connection.   And if  you really want to maintain control you can just keep the password to yourself, you enter the password the initial time they logon, the password is then saved which normally can't be seen again, and on subsequent logons they don't have to enter any passwords.  There are other ways to secure passwords also like guess passwords, MAC address used for logon, etc., but that getting deeper than I expect you want to know.  

 

And also change the router's Admin password used just to log into the router's settings....normally routers come with just a basic Admin password such as password, admin, or 1234....they are meant to be changed by the new owner.   Because if they have the router Admin logon password then they can logon, see or change your Wifi password, and then they can make a Wifi connection.

 

Summary: just some quick and basic Wifi security setup is all you have to do...then forget about it....but don't forget your passwords.

[gdhm]

Red Cardinal

Whilst writing this post in response to Pib's post,  I just got your reply RedCardinal. Many thanks looks like Pib and others agree that I should get rid of my antiquated Premier 3mb/1mb package and get a new Fibre based much faster package. My home is reasonably large made of concrete. An agent doing street rounds once visited us about 3-4 years ago and tried to sell us a Wifi modem. His demo proved Wi-Fi to my bedroom seemed OK but to my Son's bedroom (furthest away from modem's current position was not 100%.

To be honest my Ethernet cables are already well in place and well hidden in my PC (front downstairs room so I think I will stick with my Desktop PC and my Son's old Desktop PC continuing to use the Ethernet cables (no reason or gain not to). If I connect our Lounge TV it will 50/50% whether Ethernet cable or Wi Fi. I think Wi Fi would be logical way to go if I was to connect my son's bedroom TV and our bedroom TVs to the Internet but currently neither these two TVs are smart or LEDs.   My wife' has always fancied a laptop (I have not needed one and currently we do not have one but when my son moves into High school I may well be under pressure to find the money to get one.) My wife does have a new r Asus 6inch screen Zenfone 2 Laser and is really into it. Her cousin (and me) said she may be technically be able to feed off my ISP package by Wi Fi an d my wife would like faster downloading as the non wi fi method on her phone is very Slowwww.  I am sure this can be done already but she has no sense or understanding of security or updating nor do I feel she is careful enough to protect her data -too trusting of every text or social media message she gets.  Consequently, I have resisted checking out any capability I may already have. I have also resisted because my service is already impaired when my son is concurrently streaming YouTube on his PC when I am on mine and I feel sure my wife would get mainly into streaming and social media, downloading images and music).  If I do try to connect her I will need to ensure she shares nothing more than a connection with me and that it cannot be used by a hacker, other mall intent or virus  access to MY PC or Our Son's PC which use Ethernet cable. I have already disabled all interaction/sharing with my son's PC and we do not even share printers.

-------------

 

 Pib

Thank you SO MUCH for all this extra interesting info. I have learnt an awful lot since I posted this topic only a few days ago and yours and others efforts to help is really appreciated and will be remembered and used.  I am sure any others not very knowledgable on coming across this Topic will also be helped a lot by the useful content and reasoning.

 

" Answer: Yes, Gigabit-capble Passive Optical Network (GPON) Optical Network Terminal (ONT) is just the techie way of saying a high bandwidth fiber line running to the ONT (i..e, router) at the residence.   Every technology has it own technical/geeks words and acronyms.  The "passive" word just means the fibre line consists of "non-active" electrical components like on DOCSIS/Cable and xVDSL copper lines which have electrical amplifers/switches/DSLAMs/etc. Yeap, a fibre line it pretty much just a fibre pipe that goes through some passive fibre optics splitters (kinda like how a prism breaks up sunlight in various streams of different color light...the prism is a "passive" device).   Yes, 3BB does appear to require a ONT (router) deposit..and I think if the account is put in a forangs name they require 12 months advance payment...probably best to put in a Thai name then the 12 month advance payment is not required.  Just as FYI, I'm a farang, my AIS Fibre account is in my name and I didn't have to play any ONT deposit or installation charge....nor an advance payment....zero upfront...just the one month bill that arrives in the mail monthly."

 

I have been a customer of 3BB in my name for nearly 9 years on their Premier 3mb/1mb which they have seemed keen for me to keep. Certainly, never suggested or recommended changing package when I have queried the speeds and benefits offered these days compared to my expensive Premier package. To be honest my International website access seems to get slower over recent years (may be my imagination). I am not sure 3BB will let me cancel and switch to my wife to bypass any Farang restrictions they may apply. They are welcome to try a "Farang card" with me but I'll certainly resist before conceding. I'll no doubt see how must they value their long term always pay on time farang customer.

 

Equipment: Would I not be better off getting myself a new updated TP-Link) or other brand Modem/ Router that is Wi-Fi dual band and caters for VDSL and ADSL Ethernet ports 10/100/1000. I appreciate more costly but if it is felt worth it and reasonably future proof it may be worthwhile. I ask because I have heard ISP provided equipment is usually very basic with not very impressive capability or do you think IPS limitations will outweigh any lack of performance from ISP equipment. 

 

Regarding "My gosh, i was surprised to see someone was still on a 3Mb plan (even in Thailand)" well there's always one sucker that VERY RELUCTANTLY sticks what the ISP says he is best for him. Seriously, I was afraid to MAYBE jump out of the Frying Pan into the fire and 3BB refused to let me try it and go back to Premier if worse.

I can tell you my visits to 3BB Sales Desks were at first strong hint attempts to try to get them to give me a free speed upgrade on my existing Premier. I pointed out everybody else's plans (including other ISPs) seem much faster and cheaper. Unfortunately, they were not biting (on either occasion).  Maybe I should visit their actual main office in KK and ask to speak to the Manager hopefully with more technical knowledge and powers of decision making) and tell them I feel they have been taking advantage of me (a 9 year customer) in recent years by me paying ฿1,200 pm with lousy 3mb/1mb Premier and telling me it is the best option for me until I pay a lot more (I think I was offered 5MB/1mb for over ฿1,000 more at some time in the past.

 

(I have just seen (whilst still typing my reply to you Pib, that you too have posted again and provided more information on Wi-Fi, privacy and security. Thanks, helpful as it has answered some questions I had).

 

I did in fact recently change my modem provided password based on Avast antivirus scan again telling me my password is weak. All was OK for 3 weeks, then all of a sudden I could not get a 3BB connection nor could my son's PC. Even worse when I tried to access my Modem's Management Controls I could not even do that - Which really surprised and concerned me (as that has NEVER happens before when 3BB has gone down temporarily ) I tried everything, reboot PC, auto fixing network connection, changing Ethernet cable to m and phone cable and splitter ALL to NO AVAIL.  Then I hard reset my Modem via its rest button, and lo and behold I was THEN able to access its Management Controls (very relieved about that coz I was afraid if a reset was not the issue I  would not be able to set up My modem' with my ISP settings again without Management Controls access.   It seems 3BB were having issues which continued around early afternoon for next  3 days and then OK for 2 days then issue again and now OK for 4 days (rally hope they haved sorted it out completely).  I have NO IDEA what the 3BB issue was but I do not understand how my Modem's settings got corrupted and needed a hard reset. Cowardly, I have not given it a new password this time (just in case that was part of the cause for the corruption - NOT that I really believe that)

 

Thanks & Regards to you both

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by gdhm

[Pib]

Regarding the equipment, for Fiber and Cable/DOCSIS networks, ISPs usually provide a router that is "married" to their system---you must use it...you got no choice.   It's kinda like using cable/satellite TV and must use the service providers settop box with their subscription card/code.   And with the ISP- provided fiber router you may or may not be able to set it to Bridge mode passing almost total router control to your personal router.  

 

But nothing stops  you from connecting your personal router to the ISP provided router and then using your personal router to best effect....but you will need to take some precautions to avoid possible and intermittent DHCP, Firewall, etc., conflicts between the ISP provided router and your router.  Many people instead just set their personal router to Access Point mode to avoid these conflicts.

 

Now with ADSL/VDSL you have more latitude in being able to not use the ISP's router and just replace it with your personal router assuming  you can get all the setup parameters correct which may require some info provided by the ISP.

 

But more and more now days with with Fiber, Cable and maybe even VDSL networks the ISPs are placing more emphasis on you "having to continue to use their provided router" even if you do hook your personal router to their router.   They do this to maintain configuration control of their system and to cut down on problem phone calls  because the customer can't make a connection due to their experimenting in trying to use their own router as the one and only router.

 

 

 

[wpcoe]

On 12/11/2016 at 0:09 AM, KittenKong said:

 

My 18/1 3BB ADSL costs me 900B per month, plus VAT, less an 8% discount for paying a year in advance.

 

I just transferred a 3BB ADSL account into my name in the Jomtien condo I recently bought.  It is an 18Mbps/1.8Mbps plan and is only B632 (including tax) per month.  I don't know the history of the account so perhaps it's some old grandfathered account, but it sounds like you might be paying too much?

[KittenKong]

8 hours ago, wpcoe said:

I just transferred a 3BB ADSL account into my name in the Jomtien condo I recently bought.  It is an 18Mbps/1.8Mbps plan and is only B632 (including tax) per month.  I don't know the history of the account so perhaps it's some old grandfathered account, but it sounds like you might be paying too much?

 

My account isn't very old (a couple of years) but the product is no longer advertised. I am unwilling to change it as it works well for international use. It seems that (some, all?) other cheaper 3BB packages use a different login suffix that causes them to have slower international connections, so it may be that yours is in this group. My suffix seems to be the faster type. This was discussed in a topic here a couple of months ago.

 

Either way, there seems to be no way to change any 3BB ADSL package these days: you either stick with what you have or you switch to VDSL which, as discussed, does seem to involve the slower login suffix but is cheaper. So until they have some full fibre offer to my building I'm inclined to let sleeping dogs lie.

[gdhm]

If I am understanding the latest 3 posts:

Pib : Stick with what the IPS provides seems to be the logical option as totally compatible and of course save a few thousand Baht.

Wpcoe:  I would think I would be grandfathered in against new Farnag accounts beign opened having been with 3BB for 8-9 years, at same address and always paid when invoice received.

KittenKong:  My current line (whatever it is using telephone line from electricity pole and telephone point (about 25 metres I'd say) could be used with VDSL but Fibre is technically much faster HOWEVER if not intended for International (as is one of the VDSL packages) its slower login suffix will have a negative affect on its package quoted speeds (based on Thai websites I assume). Other notable factor is ฿500 lower price with VDSL. 

 

Logical 3BB Fibre Package is their special offer Fibre 200Mb/50Mb for ฿1,200 pm. Equipment etc ฿3,000 Deposit

Logical VDSL (for me) would seem to be the Special Offer VDSL 50Mb/10Mb for ฿700 pm. Equipment ฿800 Deposit

 

I note the VDSL 50Mb/10Mb package is usually ฿2,500 pm which leads me to wonder is the special offer exactly the same or perhaps the much more expensive offering may not have slower speeds and less users per User group than the special Consumer Offer package.

 

I anybody is using either of these packages I's be very interested in speeds attained to US and UK  NOT USING a VPN. and whether the 3BB provided Equipment is used.

 

I will wait a few days for any further input and then feel it best I visit the 3BB main office to try and extract details of 1) Users per Group for each package AND 2) whether one or both of the Fibre & VDSL special offer packages have got any 3BB restriction be they settings or different server routes used etc.  Of course I will only have their word for what I am told,  as I know of no way of checking (hence why any user test speeds on the two packages would be most helpful to me in deciding (and whether what I will be told adds up and makes sense based on the input on this Topic).  

 

I do appreciate the huge difference in speeds between the Fibre and VDLS special offer packages and the better future proofing, but I feel I need to ask "in the Real World" if 200Mb/50Mb will nowhere near be obtainable for most of my usage (international), then would not the VDSL 50MB/10MB package (which IS stated suitable for International and HD streaming) be more than adequate for a max load of 3 concurrent HD streaming sessions. I ask because it seems VDSL would allow me to use my existing telephone cable line (under road and to home), is much cheaper. AND my Speed and Ping tests in my OP  seem to suggest I have no issues with my Line quality (rarely lose packets during tests and jitter only 0 to 1ms - my biggest issues seem to be ping compared to those living BKK,  but Jib confirmed he got the same Ping as me to Quezon City, Philippines. I assume Fibre and VDSL would offer exactly the same Ping stats as my current ADSL.

 

I REALLY DO appreciate all you guys (gals?) time, help and advice .

One thing I am 100% certain about is, based on all your input I should change to one of the above from my current 3BB ฿1,090 (excl. 7% VAT) 3mb/1mb Premier package before the Special offer to 31/12/16 expires.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by gdhm

[KittenKong]

11 hours ago, gdhm said:

KittenKong:  My current line (whatever it is using telephone line from electricity pole and telephone point (about 25 metres I'd say) could be used with VDSL but Fibre is technically much faster HOWEVER if not intended for International (as is one of the VDSL packages) its slower login suffix will have a negative affect on its package quoted speeds (based on Thai websites I assume). Other notable factor is ฿500 lower price with VDSL.

 

One big point with fibre is reliability. You wont get this from xDSL to the same extent, though if your cable and connections are all new it should be OK for at least a few years.

 

Another big point is that the overall bandwidth of fibre will normally be a lot higher. This means that even if it is throttled down to (say) 25% for international use it should still be better than anything xDSL can offer. However there do seem to be differing opinions as to exactly how it is throttled and exactly what the effect is. I believe that some of these differing opinions come from the way the tests are done and the general usage of the connection. I am certain that my 3BB ADSL connection has some smart traffic shaping going on that throttles the connection for prolonged use between around 6pm and midnight but doesnt throttle it for punctual use at the same times, so depending on how and when I do my tests I could get very different results.

 

None of that seems to apply to Thai sites for which you normally get the full rated bandwidth of your connection.

 

All that said, if the 500B is important to you then you should probably go with VDSL. Personally I would be delighted to get fibre if I could and would happily pay 500B more for it assuming it works properly.

[gdhm]

Hi KittenKong , 

 

Understood, THANKS. 

 

No the ฿500 pm is not my main consideration but real speeds (at worst IS).

My current Premier seem to give me around 2.9Mb/.8 Mb Quezon City, Phillipines and other countries (mostly Speedtest.net and with the others I have tried recently) pretty well any time of day day. I do notice however at weekends and some early evenings access to international websites is slower (I assume due to number of concurrent users on my group).  I always find the Bangkok Bank Forex page on its website often particularly slow to fully load (maybe not constructed for performance). When I do the speed test at slow access to sites times that my test readings always seme to remain around 2.9Mb/.8 Mb. (I don't understand that -must be other factors involved).

These consistent readings would seme to suggest suggest little or no throttling or whatever is being done for International sites on my Premier package. Hence why I am keen to have some idea of speed tests results in particular for international servers in UK & US with my two consideration: The VDSL package specifically suggests its intended for moderate International use so IF it is like Premier (not/very little throttling and has the same reduced number of users per line it may get closre to its actual package advertised speeds (as does my Premier package) than the Fibre Plan. BUt of course the Fibre plan maximum speeds aremuch higher and as you say if throttled back may STILl be higher for International Access.

 

With regard to the Fibre package I have NO idea on throttling, usage recommendations or number of users per group as I have not been able to find any 3BB info on this.

 

3BB Fibre special offer Fibre 200Mb/50Mb for ฿1,200 pm. Equipment etc ฿3,000 Deposit

3BB VDSL special Offer VDSL 50Mb/10Mb for ฿700 pm. Equipment ฿800 Deposit

 

I agree Fibre is best (I wonder what the hit is, if I continue to use my telephone line and what speeds I'd get either way to a UK or US server). I assume testing to a reasonably local country like Singapore, Vietnam or even BKK servers would not show reality for my mainly UK and US website usage. I would hate to set up a in the air fibre line to house and find the speed improvement over using the telephone line between Electricity pole and house is very small.

 

Does any body know if YouTube co.th is local co0mpared to Co.uk or .com or do they are go to same place for streaming (namely treated as international)

 

Finally I wonder id 3BB are willing to be open about the throttling/user numbers or whatever or whether it is their policy not to reveal these to consumers.

As I said any Speedtests submitted here on ThaiVisa from User with either of these 3BB packages (or maybe slower options same package type) would give me and other a lot answers on this.

 

 

 

 

 

[gdhm]

Hi Guys, I think I have found all the answers I need on 3BB 200mb/50mb Fibre Package ฿1,200 +7% VAT (฿1,284) per month

 

Multiple Worldwide Speed tests via nperf.com

 

 

3BB supplied modem.  (NO idea what the guy is saying). As Pib expected 3BB seem to use a Wi-Fi 4 port LAN and Huawei. With only 2 antennae I susepct itsd WiFi connection performance to equipment around the home is not the best.

 

All tests I found on YouTube for 3BB VDSL 50/10 package were to Thailand sites except on that tried an African location and one other but speeds were so awful just over 1mb download that I have to seriously wonder about the quality of his line or probably more likely the African server lines as that Package is recommended for International use. Even  my 3Mb/1mb Premier packages gets awful performance to/from African test servers (must be something strange about the African continent's test servers/lines being used by speedtest.net).

 

Any way with the test results shown in the 200/50 Fibre package it seems clear as the experts here expected that this is definitely the package I will go for.

 

Thanks for all your help guys

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by gdhm

[Pib]

A person can look in the Testmy.net database for results.   For example, I just queried on below person's 3BB tests to Singapore, London, and Tokyo today/18 Dec.  Play with their database and you can figure out how to find the info.  

 

His specific location in Thailand is Ban Bueng in Chon Buri province.   Now the database will not say anywhere that's he's on the 3BB Fiber "200/50Mb" plan but it does say 3BB Broadband and what other plan does 3BB have that could produce upload speeds of over 30Mb to Singapore or download speeds of over 100Mb to Singapore.    And I can not say whether he's on a 1000Mb/gigabit ethernet connection to his 3BB router to ensure he gets the full speed of his 200/50 plan.   Or, he's on only 100Mb/Fast ethernet connection which might be able to reach around 108Mb speed (very possible) but would still limit him far below his 200Mb speed plan.  Or, he's on a Wifi connection which just can't support 200Mb speed and is also limiting his download speed.  But if had to bet some money, he's probably on a 1000Mb/gigabit connection between his computer and 3BB router so his hardware is not creating any chokepoint.

 

I think this guy's speeds are going to beat your 3BB ADSL 3/1Mb plan by a fair amount.   What you think?

 

 And also note that although you may have a 200Mb plan as you will see for the testing below it does not mean you will get anything close to 200Mb to various international sites....like only around 16Mb to London.  I've seen other TV member on 3BB 200/50 report the same in some posts.  However, the 3BB network seems to respond well to VPN connections which allows you to bypass some of their data throttling.

 

Also, if 3BB provides you the Hauwei HG8245H router like shown in the youtube video, it's only a 2.4Ghz router but it does have 1000Mb ethernet ports.  This means if you want to use Wifi and get 200Mb speed you need to get a 5Ghz capable router/access point to hook to the Hauwei and a 2.4Ghz Wifi connection is not going to approach 200Mb speed....probably around 100Mb or just a little more "best case."   But maybe 3BB will provide a low cost, freebie 2.4/5Ghz router along with the primary Hauwei router you pay the deposit on....that's what AIS Fibre does but they don't require any deposit.

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Pib

[gdhm]

Hi Pib ,  Once again many thanks for you helpful input.

 

In answer to you question " I think this guy's speeds are going to beat your 3BB ADSL 3/1Mb plan by a fair amount.   What you think? "

You advised in an earlier post ISPs often make it hard to to use equipment other than that  provided by them. accepting this I think it reasonable to assume the test results in the video were using the 3BB provided Huawei.  There are no other  3BB Domestic packages offering 200Mb/50Mb or any where near from 3BB currently as far as I can see. I feel it pretty certain the tester in the video used Ethernet cables and I have to take his word for it that he was testing the same package as advertised.

 

In the sample speed tests you posted I could not see whether those were for a range of 3BB packages and speeds or only the highest offering 200Mb/50Mb but even there, the two UK download speeds quoted are 3+ and 4+ 4 times higher than my mine and uploads are 2 and 3 times faster than my package.

 

Below is another video that does some tests and this guy got 40.37Mb/10.45Mb  to San Francisco Ping 204ms. I feel that with my Premier Package offering a max of 3mb/1mb even these speeds are sensational compared to mine package. even if I only got 20mb/5mb I would still be massively outperforming my package and I believe you felt 6-7MB would suffice for HD streaming on two connections at one time both streaming

 

 

Unless you disagree Pib I do not see how I can go wrong for the extra ฿122 per month (Vat at 7% included). Especially bearing in mind my two main PCs that will use the package will be connected by Ethernet Cable. MY PC is 1000MB Ethernet capable and the Huawei is supposed to be 1000Mb so I would expect to get the best I am capable of and I am by far the biggest user in our house hold (8 hours a day on average) My son's old PC also has a Gigabit LAN specification according to its manual. 

 

I have noted that on some of the videos on YouTube I have watched that the Users were getting Jitter of 20ms or so. With my tests in my original post I was getting 0 to 1ms usually with no packets lost. I assume means my line quality is better than theirs and would achieve faster results as not dropping packets or being delayed by jitter.  However I note my Pings are locally anyway are 32ms whereas you and others seem to get 4ms or under. I don't know how all these stats work out in importance. Tonight I pinged Google public DNS Servers 8.8.4.4 and 8.8.8.8 and got 51-53ms average. When I pinged the 3BB DNS servers I got 31-33Ms.  If I ping a Bangkok server I get 32ms form here in Khon Kaen Ethernet cable.  Does faster speeds get faster pings - I believe it does not (or if it does only a tiny bit)?

 

Regards

 

 

[Pib]

Jitter is not the loss of any packets of data, it's just variation in latency/ping.   Like say you are testing to some location like Los Angeles ....over the span of the test a bunch of latency/ping "samples" are taken.   Say only 3 samples are taken during the test (but actually many are taken) and the three samples are 210ms,  200ms, and 240ms.   Now the maximum jitter in this example would be 30ms...the difference between the 210 and 240ms samples.  And on some ping testers they may report the result as average jitter calculated a certain way.     But there is no loss of data....it's just "variation" in the latency/ping....just like how your download/upload speeds "vary" a little while running speed tests/actually using your connection.

 

The ping time you are getting between Khon Khan and Bangkok is kinda long and that is caused by your 3BB network and/or router, most likely your 3BB network....just delay in getting through some of the 3BB network electronics.   Like when I do a speedtest.net test form Bangkok to Bangkok I get around 5ms....I couldn't do Bangkok to Khon Khan as this point in time because the Khon Khan server is not even showing on Speedtest.net at this point in time (must be off line for maintenance), but when testing from Bangkok to Vientiane Laos I get 19ms.   And those results on a Wifi connection between my computer and router...if I was connected via ethernet they would probably drop a millisecond or two.  Remember I'm on AIS Fibre 50/10 not 3BB.

 

Assuming you also have a mobile data connection, if you've ever done speedtests/pings tests on your mobile network you'll notice the ping times will be significantly higher than your home internet connection....that difference is simply caused by the cell tower mobile data connection delay.

 

Now when latency get too high it can cause problems on VOIP calls and online gamers always complain about any kind of delay...they would repeal the speed of light law if they could.  And high latency can affect live video streaming....but a lot depends on how "smooth/consistent' the data is or isn't flowing.   Depending on how people use their internet connection, latency will affect them in a different way....ranging from not seeing any effect to noticing some.  Not a lot you can do about it.

 

Don't worry too much about the latency/ping/jitter thing as there is nothing you can really do about it.  But you do have some control over the download/upload speeds you get based on the plan you sign up for....and if using Wifi inside you home having some good Wifi equipment....you'll definitely need a 5Ghz capability to take full advantage of a 200Mb plan; otherwise, you'll need to use 1000Mb ethernet connections to take full advantage of 200Mb.

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

Looking through the Testmy.net database some more, below are a few more results from some folks most likely on the 3BB 200/50 fiber plan.    And since the testing seems to always be to Singapore and Tokyo, it may be several "different folks" or just "one person" who wants to test to only Singapore and Tokyo.   The 3BB 200/50 is still pretty new...before that recent plan 3BBs fastest plan was 100/10.   It's my understanding people on the 100/10 plan are suppose to automatically be upgraded to the 200/50 plan.  Maybe over the near term we'll see more test results on Testmy.net for folks test driving their 200/50 plan.

 

 

To Singapore

 

To Singapore and Tokyo

 

To Tokyo

 

To Singapore and Tokyo

 

To Singapore and Tokyo

[gdhm]

Thanks again Pib you really are a Super Star with the time and effort you have/are spending helping and educating me. I cannot tell you how much it is appreciated.

 

The variations in speeds are on your speed tests above surprising. Could it be some are using W-Fi or, only have fast internet (100Mb) ports or are on lower speed packages. Then again could some of these be on VDSL and not Fibre or recent previous ADSL,DDSL or Fibre packages  Real shame there is no way of knowing packages used as it (seems to me) to reduce the helpfulness of the results (except offering an idea on real world max capabilities).

 

I tried many ping tests over the last two days and it would appear I am incapable of getting below 32ms (BKK) on my setup to anywhere.

My concern is IF it is 3BB equipment then why is their equipment in BKK or nearby allowing much better ping/latency results.

 

I tried pinging myself using with what googling suggest is a special 127.0.0.1 and got 1ms. Would this suggest my ADLS Modem Router is not the cause (or am I being very naive and showing my ignorance on these matters)?

 

 

I tried a Tracert to the speedtest.net STS Group in Bangkok and got.

 

 

I also did a tracert to the 3BB DNS servers and Google Public DNS 8.8.4.4 (which namebench suggested was faster than 8.8.8.8 when I tested last night)

 

Do these results tell you anything (Double Dutch to me except I note 2 always seems to jump to 27 ms on all Tracerts)? .

When I did some of the above on first run I got  an occasional random * (I assume these are timeouts).  

 

Thanks

 

[Pib]

5 hours ago, gdhm said:

The variations in speeds are on your speed tests above surprising. Could it be some are using W-Fi or, only have fast internet (100Mb) ports or are on lower speed packages. Then again could some of these be on VDSL and not Fibre or recent previous ADSL,DDSL or Fibre packages  Real shame there is no way of knowing packages used as it (seems to me) to reduce the helpfulness of the results (except offering an idea on real world max capabilities).

 

 

Once you get a plan that's faster than 3Mb....like up around 50Mb to 200Mb you'll soon see how widely speed test results can vary from minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day, etc. I was only looking for testers who showed download results faster than 100Mb or upload speeds great that 20Mb which would mean they are not only a lower speed plan like say a 100/10 or lower.   And although you can't see it in my earlier snapshots each snapshot represented the results of one specific person doing one or more tests....I just did not include the User info in the snapshots.  And  you can also tell whether they are using Android, IOS device versus a computer by little symbol that appears and when putting your cursor over the symbols it might even say what city in Thailand they are testing from  

 

Like below person testing to Singapore with his Android device inside his home...and when putting your mouse over the icons it shows the person was testing from a city in Chonburi.    This was a person on 3BB also...I'm just giving this snapshot to talk about the "where and what kind of device" determination.   And when you decide to combine that along with looking for just certain minimum download/upload speeds  you can determine a lot of things about the particular test.  Know since this guy was using his Android device which might not have a good Wifi circuit in it, especially if a lower cost Android device, I can't really say what speed plan he has...but since he's getting 55Mb to Singapore I expect he has a 100 or 200Mb 3BB plan.  

 

It's pretty easy to come to some pretty good conclusions with good certainty what type/speed of plan the person has especially when you know what plans an ISP has.  

 

 

 

 

[gdhm]

Ah, I see. Thanks Pib. 

I'm planning to visit 3BB office after 22nd Dec when my ever decreasing (thanks to UK Brexit referendum currently wiping out 14.2% of my income compared to day of vote last June) get paid. just in case I am forced to pay a year up front (quite willing to switch account to my wife's name if necessary to avoid).

 

 

[Pib]

5 hours ago, gdhm said:

Ah, I see. Thanks Pib. 

I'm planning to visit 3BB office after 22nd Dec when my ever decreasing (thanks to UK Brexit referendum currently wiping out 14.2% of my income compared to day of vote last June) get paid. just in case I am forced to pay a year up front (quite willing to switch account to my wife's name if necessary to avoid).

 

Maybe think of it this way....although Brexit has wiped out 14% of your income, internet speeds have increased approx 100 fold along with internet plan prices falling by around 50%.    So, maybe your income and bills will even out---or not!!!  

 

5 years ago I was paying Bt1,299/mo for a True cable 20/2 plan.....then around 2 years ago I downgraded to a True cable 15/1.5 plan for Bt699/mo....in July 16, I switched to an AIS Fibre 50/10 plan at Bt888/mo...and come the first few days of Jan my upgrade to AIS Fibre 100/10 at Bt1100/mo will go into effect.   Faster and/or cheaper plans just keep coming out especially with fiber radically changing the landscape of internet plans....a person needs to shop around and change plans occasionally to get the best deal.    

[gdhm]

22 hours ago, Pib said:

 

...Maybe think of it this way....although Brexit has wiped out 14% of your income, internet speeds have increased approx 100 fold along with internet plan prices falling by around 50%.    So, maybe your income and bills will even out---or not!!!  

 

You should have been a politician Pib ,   One minor flaw in your clever logic. Brexit was only 6 months ago.

 

Seriously, I agree about speeds going up and prices down. I am very tempted to tell the manager if I get to see him (one I spoke to years ago spoke good English ) that I think I have not been given good advice by 3BB staff in recent years when I have asked whether I can do better. I have always told I already have the best package in Premier for International, BUT I believe that has not been true since VDSL and Fibre and their higher speeds hit the scene and with many packages being much cheaper as well. 

 

I think this is what happens when a non Thai speaking customer (who does not know all the ins and outs but seriously suspects he could do better for the price) asks 3BB staff for recommendations (via a Thai spouse) who too do not understand the logic that massive speed increases in packages and Fibre or VDSL are likely to multiple times outperform my 3Mb/1Mb Premier package even though International sites may be throttled and/or more Users per group so they go with the easy answer "yours is best for you".

 

I will try and get specific details on throttling and maximum users per group - Just in case the ฿700 VDSL 50Mb/10Mb is NOT throttled (or whatever) and has the same lower number of users per group that my Premier package does.  I am hoping the throttling (or whatever) details I am given on the VDSL and Fibre package will makes my decision very clear cut that Fibre is the obvious choice.  IF, it turns out throttling is so massive on the Fibre package for International sites then maybe I should thinking of walking away from 3BB IF other ISPs are out performing their International speeds due to lesser throttling (or whatever) because whilst my wife and son will not care I use almost entirely English website of which nearly all are International.

 

Do you know by any chance if the major streaming sites such as YouTube in particular have their video servers locally or all on International servers.  I ask because I know YouTube defaults to YouTube TH, BUT if video servers are actually streamed from international servers then I wonder how much Thais benefit from packages that throttle International sites, UNLESS of course 3BB throttles by the initial YouTube site location accessed (by that I mean maybe accessing YouTube via YouTube.co.uk is treated differently from via YouTube.co.th  (even if all videos are on International servers).