Dhammachayo disciples seeking royal help to avoid possible violence

[scorecard]

10 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 

http://dealbook.nytimes.com//2009/06/29/should-charities-repay-their-madoff-money/

 

This case is quite similar to the Madoff fraud and some of his ill-gotten money went to charities. Have a read and form your own opinion but bottom line was that the charities were not in collusion with his fraud and they were not charged but may be sued or money need to be returned. IMO, how this charity money resulted in charges in the temple's case are still not convincing to me and in my opinion looks like this all a political gamesmanship. 

 

 

"... political gamesmanship..." Hows that?

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, AlQaholic said:

Imagine this; someone steals 1000 baht from you and gives 10 Baht to charity, when you confront the person, he will not give the money back because it "dissapeared". Somehow you find out that he gave 10 baht of your money to charity, so you go after the charity, they give back the 10 Baht and you issue a letter of thanks and say the charity have not committed any crime against you. Meanwhile the person who stole your money goes to jail without giving up the secret of where the rest of the money is. At the same time the Police goes after the charity because they have no other leads....

 

You try to simplify the monks involvement more than the reality of the situation. 

 

An aligned point but a different case, check the earlier history of this monk, easy to find. 

[BSJ]

Tra La La La La La La La La La 

 

 

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

In regard to entering the temple, seems to me the best way is to block all entrances and totally prohibit anybody / all vehicles (including supplies) from entering....

 

Nope... didn't work for the Germans at Stalingrad either.

 

Not a good time  timing for a local siege though, cool and pleasant out. Maybe DSI should plan on doing it after Songkran when it's hot as all buggery and the acolytes will really be desperate for water and an electric fan.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

 

http://dealbook.nytimes.com//2009/06/29/should-charities-repay-their-madoff-money/

 

This case is quite similar to the Madoff fraud and some of his ill-gotten money went to charities. Have a read and form your own opinion but bottom line was that the charities were not in collusion with his fraud and they were not charged but may be sued or money need to be returned. IMO, how this charity money resulted in charges in the temple's case are still not convincing to me and in my opinion looks like this all a political gamesmanship. 

 

The only thing that's convincing to you is something you can twist / massively twist, probably with lack of honesty and/or deliberately misleading information, into a negative against the current government.

[elgordo38]

4 hours ago, silent said:

 

 

ya think?

Like in Waco Texas. 

[Khon Kaen Dave]

I just love the word 'persecution'  it creates images of a meek,mild,submissive,Ghandi type person, in a loin cloth,suffering for his beliefs.

[elgordo38]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

many of whom are poor and low income earners have a right to justice.

Yes a right to justice. Or just a supposition. 

[chilli42]

Smart move on thepart of the temple.  Timing is also perfect.

[George Graham]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Strange response, you don't seem to understand that a serious (and large) crime was committed and therefore the matter should be fully investigated and if someone broke the law they should be punished.

 

The fact that the money has been paid back is not relevant. Imagine this; someone steals your car and has no intention of returning it until he/she discovers that the police are closing in, then the thief rushes to give it back. Therefore, in your view, no further action is needed. If this was the way the law worked there is not enough deterrent to discourage / strongly frighten others to not commit crimes. 

 

You mention: "The simple truth is, even if DSI somehow manage to get Dammayayo in custody, there is no case against him which can be proven in court."  In any event the DSI / the police have a duty to fully investigate this heft / scam and therefore they must interview anybody they believe may be connected and/or may be able to give information which will aid the investigation.  Without legal processes like this the law would be totally limp and in many cases unable to find the  actual culprits. 

 

You might also remember that the money was not paid back until there was serious action against the monk / the temple was under discussion.

 

You ask 'what happened to Supachai'? He's in jail, has been already for a couple of years on a quite long incarceration sentence and with further charges in the pipeline. Perhaps you also believe that since the money was paid back (you mention this, not me) that Supachai should be released. You also forget that the depositors who had they savings stolen from them have a right to see somebody punished.

Scorecard, Scorecard, my dear Scorecard. "... if someone broke the law they should be punished." Did you just arrive in Thailand, what, three months ago?

[freebyrd]

On 10/12/2016 at 8:51 AM, GeorgeCross said:

he only has to walk out the front door to "stop the violence"  

 

That's the best post yet on this subject.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, George Graham said:

Scorecard, Scorecard, my dear Scorecard. "... if someone broke the law they should be punished." Did you just arrive in Thailand, what, three months ago?

 

No I didn't arrive in Thailand three months ago, in fact I arrived here to work more than 3 decades ago and for all of that period I've put time into learning how 'things work' in this country. I'm very familiar with the political and justice history and failings, disgraces and horror stories, political interference in the police etc., over a long period of time.

 

Regardless of all of that, discussion of how the justice system should work is surely entirely valid.

 

In this case going forward* will there be interference by powerful immoral folks before this ends?  Anything is possible with little doubt, but I just hope the justice processes will step by step proceed as they should and with a valid and clearly appropriate and fair result. (*and I wonder what political or other interference may have already happened.)

 

A side point - I have children and grandchildren born and raised in this wonderful country and I maintain hope for there sake the justice picture (and other items) will become more professional and much more credible.

 

Will this farce end tomorrow? No, without doubt there's still some way to go with none of us really knowing what's going to happen next, etc.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by scorecard

[lungmi]

You forget in all this discussion one point:

The dhammakai sect is a fake Buddhist money making movement.

Scientology and others are the model.

My wife and me liberated already  our daughter,

Our son now is ordained.

We say: Give back this fake robe,

We say: All your knowledge you can use

as student of the Mahachulakorn university

Your Papa has a farang friend who is assistant professor there.

We take care for all you need

[robblok]

10 hours ago, Srikcir said:

It's what OAG knows that counts.

OAG's decision to indict Supachi and Dhammachayo was based on "convincing" evidence provided by DSI and plaintiffs in the case that justified prosecutors to seek arrest warrants. Once OAG hear's the defedents testimony, it will decide whether to proceed with the indictment or not.

As long as Dhammachayo evades the authorities, neither DSI or OAG is not obligated to reveal the evidence against Dhammachayo. Either OAG lets the statute of limitations expire by allowing the abbot to remain at large or tries the abbot in absentia.

 

Is this possible under Thai law ? If so why is Red bull guy and Thaksin not treated to the same thing ?

[digibum]

On 12/9/2016 at 3:55 PM, colinneil said:

Disciples seek help to avoid violence.

Easy way to do that is for them to stay out of the temple, stay home.

Allow the authorities to do their job unhindered.

Let the authorities execute the arrest warrant without interference.

 

Oh the irony of a group of followers of a Buddhist monk afraid that violence might come to them when the only reason violence would come is if they shed the teachings of non-violence and created a hostile situation where the police/military had to act violently to execute their orders.  

 

 

[baboon]

4 hours ago, lungmi said:

You forget in all this discussion one point:

The dhammakai sect is a fake Buddhist money making movement.

Scientology and others are the model.

My wife and me liberated already  our daughter,

Our son now is ordained.

We say: Give back this fake robe,

We say: All your knowledge you can use

as student of the Mahachulakorn university

Your Papa has a farang friend who is assistant professor there.

We take care for all you need

Better still, just have nothing to do with any organisation which promises you eternal bliss even when your earthly remains are worm food.

It is all complete flapdoodle preying on the human need to be part of something bigger than oneself and capitalising on it.

[smedly]

the big problem is that temples in Thailand come under absolutely no financial regulation......zero, the reason this particular situation came to light is because someone was rather silly with other peoples money and those people demanded answers   if it had been PTP in charge we would have heard none of this and the reason is obvious 

 

so it is not hard to imagine how such a thing in Thailand can end up being abused ...........a fine example of this abuse would be .......................... do I need to go on

 

These temples need to be financially regulated - they need to be forced to submit accounts especially when such large sums of money are involved

Edited December 12, 2016 by smedly

[Stargeezr]

If this temple used land that  they had no rights to, and or if the Abbott and others

of that temple were misusing the animals in any way, then they are  all criminals and

deserve to get put in prison for their crimes, no matter how many followers  they

may have. Thailand  it  is  time  to  clean  up  the corruption.

Geezer

[Srikcir]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

 

Is this possible under Thai law ? If so why is Red bull guy and Thaksin not treated to the same thing ?

http://pattayadailynews.com/thai-court-to-try-thaksin-wife-in-absentia-in-graft-cases/

[robblok]

50 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

http://pattayadailynews.com/thai-court-to-try-thaksin-wife-in-absentia-in-graft-cases/

 

Thanks that explains it, in his other cases T has not surrendered to the court, and red bull has certainly not done anything like that. Seems it can only happen if the case has already started and is acknowledged by the defendants.

[George Graham]

17 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

No I didn't arrive in Thailand three months ago, in fact I arrived here to work more than 3 decades ago and for all of that period I've put time into learning how 'things work' in this country. I'm very familiar with the political and justice history and failings, disgraces and horror stories, political interference in the police etc., over a long period of time.

 

Regardless of all of that, discussion of how the justice system should work is surely entirely valid.

 

In this case going forward* will there be interference by powerful immoral folks before this ends?  Anything is possible with little doubt, but I just hope the justice processes will step by step proceed as they should and with a valid and clearly appropriate and fair result. (*and I wonder what political or other interference may have already happened.)

 

A side point - I have children and grandchildren born and raised in this wonderful country and I maintain hope for there sake the justice picture (and other items) will become more professional and much more credible.

 

Will this farce end tomorrow? No, without doubt there's still some way to go with none of us really knowing what's going to happen next, etc.

 

 

You should have stopped typing after the word"should."

[silent]

On 12/12/2016 at 0:44 PM, elgordo38 said:

Yes a right to justice. Or just a supposition. 

It's just the usual fear of  the unknown showing how fortunate we are without Orson Welles broadcasting to make Waco look like a friendly summer barbeque on a dog day afternoon..