phuket town immigration scam

[phuketrichard]

18 hours ago, stevenl said:

So the scam is she is fined for a violation that should cost her more than she is charged.

 

Did I understand this correct?

".... 'Receipt of Notification' (confirming address in Thailand) slip in her passport. "
i thought these slips are ONLY required for stays of 90 days or more??

 

MY Cambodian gf always get the 30 day extension on her tourist visa,  has never been asked for the notification slip in her passport in Patong.

 

she uses the same house address on her arrival form as i do and i have ONLY gotten the first slip when it was started and have been in and out of thailand at least 7 times and had 2 extensions since than.

Edited December 14, 2016 by phuketrichard

[KarenBravo]

12 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

i thought these slips are ONLY required for stays of 90 days or more??

 

 

No, it's for all foreigners no matter how long, or short their stay.

That has to be the case if hotels and land-lords have to report foreigner details and address to immigration within 24 hours.

[dentonian]

My Immigration office requires TM30's to be submitted every time you re-enter Thailand.

 

However for those who frequently leave/re-enter for whatever reason, they are prepared to register you on the online system, so as the owner/housemaster/possessor of a privately owned/rented house you can make your own reports online.

 

If your in that situation, speak to your office........nicely.

[IMA_FARANG]

Scam

 

[KittenKong]

I'm surprised to be reading so many comments that appear to be defending this obvious corruption.
 

Any payment made to any official that does not result in a receipt being issued is a crime in my book, and that's all there is to it. In a civilised county any official caught doing anything like this would be prosecuted and, if found guilty, would be punished and sacked without compensation.

 

Another level of corruption is that some people are being asked to pay fines (legitimate or otherwise) for failing to fill in paperwork that they have never been told that they need to fill in. This is both deceitful and unacceptable, and it is compounded by the fact that not all immigration offices seem to apply the rules in the same way. If there is a legal requirement to fill in this form then it should be clearly announced somewhere when you enter the country, or printed on your arrival card, and it should apply to everyone, everywhere, all the time.

[thaistocks]

This is such a silly waste of time better spent enjoying life,  just pay the 600 BAht and get on with it. Or regress in a never ending spiral downwards.  While in Switzerland I wanted to get new biz. cards, it cost me 7500 Baht and I had to wait 5 days, vs. here its 1/5 that price and you get them the next day.  So balance things, take the good with the bad or decided to take the bad with the good.  If you live only by principles and righteousness, you end up in a hole to deep to get out.

[LivinLOS]

38 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Any payment made to any official that does not result in a receipt being issued is a crime in my book, and that's all there is to it. In a civilised county any official caught doing anything like this would be prosecuted and, if found guilty, would be punished and sacked without compensation.

 

He did give him the option of paying 1600 baht with the receipt though.. The poster chose the corrupt way.

 

Quote

Another level of corruption is that some people are being asked to pay fines (legitimate or otherwise) for failing to fill in paperwork that they have never been told that they need to fill in.

 

Ignorance is no fault of the law.. Would you expect that every law that a visitor must comply with is put on the arrival card.. Might be a little arge no ?? 

 

 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, KarenBravo said:

 

No, it's for all foreigners no matter how long, or short their stay.

That has to be the case if hotels and land-lords have to report foreigner details and address to immigration within 24 hours.

 

Its also a totally different form.. TM30 (and TM28 if we are being pedantic) not the same as 90 day reports TM47.. 

[recom273]

The rule is very vague - the max fine is 2000B and there is no sliding scale, so it's up to the officer to calculate.

 

I'm not in Phuket. I was about halfway through my 3 month visa period and they wanted 1000B - I negotiated it down to 800B, and as a reward for that I received 2x certificate of residence in return - and I was given a receipt for the payment.

 

When entering you have a database entry, it contains some passport info, info from the arrival slip, the photo from the webcam and at the bottom a box that contains your confirmation that you have filed a TM30. This A4 sheet is printed off and processed with your extension or application for whatever at immigration - there's no mystery or catch. 

 

To those who think that their landlord is responsible or is going to pay the fine - dream on - it's down to the 'house master' - another vague term, in my case was my wife even though we rent.

 

The thing is, this rule has been in existance since day 0 but never enforced until recently and there have been reports on many forums. If the OP had done as directed then she wouldn't be in a situation where she thought she had been scammed by the officer not completing a reciept.

[DrPhibes]

2 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

 

Not here in Phuket. I talked to Immigration in Phuket Town and in Patong.

When my missus and I went to Immigration to register the address, they told the missus that as it was a private house and that I lived there, then there was no need to re-register if I left the country to work and then came back to Phuket.

I have left Thailand and come back many times. I have now had two extensions of stay and I had no problems. So far, I have only registered my address once.

 

Anything to do with ANY government department cannot be split conveniently into "Not correct" and "Correct".

Depends on location, the person you ask and interpretation, but, I would have thought you would know that by now......

 

It is this way in Chiang Mai.  My Thai wife rents the house from the owner. When I leave the country and return (last time 2 mo ago)  we have to take the rental agreement with the TM30 down to Immigration for a TM30 reporting (now in Promenada as of this date) within 24hrs.  She and the owner are equally responsible for the filing.  Chiang Mai Immigration confirms this is what is supposed to be done.

Edited December 14, 2016 by DrPhibes
forgot to add text

[thetruth revealer]

19 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

whilst some may   back and forth about rules and regs   she joined the so called scam  by paying up, back to the rules no comment because i don't know  having said that good heads up for others

was she aware that its a irregular amount? no receipt? ummmmm

[louse1953]

19 hours ago, steve187 said:

why was it paid then

No.They are saving you 1400 baht and gouging the govt. that amount.They are enriching themselves by pocketing 600 baht with no receipt.I don't mind corruption when it works in my favour.

[louse1953]

18 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

 

If you leave the country, but, come back to the same address every time, you don't have to re-register your address.

More complicated is if you stay in a hotel in Thailand before going home.

As usual this is not a blanket rule.I asked at Kap Choen and they said every time i come back from os,the missus has to report me.Internal travel,no probs.

[dentonian]

6 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

No.They are saving you 1400 baht and gouging the govt. that amount.They are enriching themselves by pocketing 600 baht with no receipt.I don't mind corruption when it works in my favour.

 

But then your encouraging the corruption.

Much easier to follow the law whether it's being enforced or not.

[louse1953]

16 hours ago, thedemon said:

It would seem that the solution is to write a hotel name as your address.

 

16 hours ago, thedemon said:

It would seem that the solution is to write a hotel name as your address.

55,with a phone number.They can check before you are out the door.Once they know you are a scammer,you have probs.You have to cover your arse better than that.The truth is usually a good method.

[dotpoom]

You say it was another example of corrupt officials....

Yet you say in your header...

• "So called Phuket town immigration scam is actually just following the rules"
• Both contradictory statements....which one is it?

[thetruth revealer]

1 hour ago, thaistocks said:

This is such a silly waste of time better spent enjoying life,  just pay the 600 BAht and get on with it. Or regress in a never ending spiral downwards.  While in Switzerland I wanted to get new biz. cards, it cost me 7500 Baht and I had to wait 5 days, vs. here its 1/5 that price and you get them the next day.  So balance things, take the good with the bad or decided to take the bad with the good.  If you live only by principles and righteousness, you end up in a hole to deep to get out.

 

One would expect Governments to inform and instruct their guests clearly , Transparency is a good thing too.

[elgordo38]

20 hours ago, stevenl said:

So the scam is she is fined for a violation that should cost her more than she is charged.

 

Did I understand this correct?

Its called an inconvience fine. Pay 600 bahts or go to another queue in another line and pay 1600 bahts. Which one would you choose being at their mercy. 

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Ignorance is no fault of the law.. Would you expect that every law that a visitor must comply with is put on the arrival card.. Might be a little arge no ?? 

 

No, I wouldn't. But this rule is specifically for foreigners and only applies to them. Therefore it seems reasonable to make people aware of it before fining them for not complying.

 

Currently no attempt whatsoever is made to inform visitors of what they need to do.

[louse1953]

10 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

But then your encouraging the corruption.

Much easier to follow the law whether it's being enforced or not.

Yes,i agree but it is tempting.We are human,corruption is never going to stop.In the west they just legalize it.I have given up after 40 years in Asia being against it.If it is a blatent rip off i will still fight it but if i am wrong and i get a discount,who am i to say where the money goes.

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

I'm surprised to be reading so many comments that appear to be defending this obvious corruption.
 

Any payment made to any official that does not result in a receipt being issued is a crime in my book, and that's all there is to it. In a civilised county any official caught doing anything like this would be prosecuted and, if found guilty, would be punished and sacked without compensation.

 

Another level of corruption is that some people are being asked to pay fines (legitimate or otherwise) for failing to fill in paperwork that they have never been told that they need to fill in. This is both deceitful and unacceptable, and it is compounded by the fact that not all immigration offices seem to apply the rules in the same way. If there is a legal requirement to fill in this form then it should be clearly announced somewhere when you enter the country, or printed on your arrival card, and it should apply to everyone, everywhere, all the time.

You are not in the nanny state now.It is up to the individual to know the "local"rules.I just introduce myself,ask their name and then ask the question.Then write it all down.

[KittenKong]

2 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Yes,i agree but it is tempting.We are human,corruption is never going to stop.In the west they just legalize it.I have given up after 40 years in Asia being against it.If it is a blatent rip off i will still fight it but if i am wrong and i get a discount,who am i to say where the money goes.

 

Cant agree with that. Bribery and corruption is wrong. It's always wrong. There are never any excuses or redeeming features of it. It's simply wrong and should be very heavily punished. Those in charge who dont punish it are just as guilty as those who participate in it.

[KittenKong]

1 minute ago, louse1953 said:

You are not in the nanny state now.It is up to the individual to know the "local"rules.I just introduce myself,ask their name and then ask the question.Then write it all down.

 

Cant agree with that either. Lack of uniform and clear laws, and lack of implementation of those laws, are the mark of an undeveloped and backward county. As I pointed out, this rule isnt even a "local rule". It is specifically for foreigners and it is shameful that immigration try to fine people (or extort bribes from people) for not obeying it without making it clear in advance that it exists.

 

My 90-day reporting slip carries a warning that it needs to be renewed and is not a permission to stay, and my permission to stay carries a warning that I have to report my address to immigration every 90 days. This is all fine and I have no problem with it. But nowhere does anything tell me that I also have to report my address using a completely different form whenever I change addresses.

[LivinginKata]

21 hours ago, stevenl said:

So the scam is she is fined for a violation that should cost her more than she is charged.

 

Did I understand this correct?

 

Wrong Steven,

 

The tourist did nothing wrong, the violation was the fault of the house master and if anyone should be fined it would be the house master.

 

And it's not 'Notification of Residence' ... it's House Registration (by house master).

 

Seems to me that the Immigration Officer just took advantage of this novice tourist ... so I guess it was a scam.  The tourist should have just refused , recovered passport, and got her house master to sort of the registration, or prove that the registration had been made within 24 hours of check-in. If not the the house master is liable for any fine.

 

It can be a tricky problem for house masters/owner/managers as no receipt is generated for online registration. We take a screen shot and keep on file.

[LivinginKata]

36 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

Cant agree with that either. Lack of uniform and clear laws, and lack of implementation of those laws, are the mark of an undeveloped and backward county. As I pointed out, this rule isnt even a "local rule". It is specifically for foreigners and it is shameful that immigration try to fine people (or extort bribes from people) for not obeying it without making it clear in advance that it exists.

 

My 90-day reporting slip carries a warning that it needs to be renewed and is not a permission to stay, and my permission to stay carries a warning that I have to report my address to immigration every 90 days. This is all fine and I have no problem with it. But nowhere does anything tell me that I also have to report my address using a completely different form whenever I change addresses.

 

This particular topic has nothing to do with 90 day reporting, it's about a 30 day extension on a tourist visa, mind you the OP incorrectly name as 'Notification of Residence' which is the 90 day reporting.

 

Yes, the 90 day report receipt slip carries a warning, but nowhere is a tourist warned that on check-in they must register with immigartion as this is the legal responsibility of the house master/owner/manager.

 

This WAS a scam by the IO on a novice tourist ... and it should be exposed.

[PJPom]

What happens if the landlord reports on line, do I need to chase him for a copy of the receipt?.

[thedemon]

1 hour ago, louse1953 said:

 

55,with a phone number.They can check before you are out the door.Once they know you are a scammer,you have probs.You have to cover your arse better than that.The truth is usually a good method.

 

No, the TM7 only asks for "Address in Thailand". No mention of phone number.

 

It can be your intention to move to that hotel address later the same day.

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 minute ago, thedemon said:

It can be your intention to move to that hotel address later the same day.

Or indeed you may turn up, find the hotel is fully booked and has lost your booking, and go somewhere else entirely

[LivinginKata]

8 minutes ago, PJPom said:

What happens if the landlord reports on line, do I need to chase him for a copy of the receipt?.

 

There is no receipt when 'house master' registers a new guest online. Like all immigration online facilities, it's a mickey mouse.  We take a screen shot of the screen after registration but we have no idea is that would be accepted by immigration as proof of registration .... I suspect not accepted.

Edited December 14, 2016 by LivinginKata
typo

[ldiablo72]

Not a scam. Under section 38 of the immigration act a foreigners presence at a residence must be reported with 24 of arrival at that residence.
Some info here: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=alienstay
The max fine is 2,000 bajt for a home owner and a fine of 2,000 to 10.000 for a business. An individual can be fined as the possessor of the residence.
The address put on a arrival card does overcome the need for the report.

You can beg to differ all you want. The fact of the matter is that your friend was in the wrong. You will be the only person here who will disagree with this rule. I just came back into Thailand and went to immigration and informed them of my residence and they stapled the notification of residence receipt into my passport.