Thailand charges 19 'red shirt' leaders with violating junta ban

[canuckamuck]

Silly red shirts, they should have been in a temple, then there would have been nothing anyone could have done about it.

[Eric Loh]

Since taking power in the May 2014 coup the junta has moved to root out Thaksin's influence and has cracked down on activists, journalists and dissidents.

 

Say it all, doesn't it. Just the regular post coup purge of all oppositions and intimidation of all dissidents. 

[jcsmith]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 but undeniable on the wrong side of the law.

 

Being elected doesn't put anyone above the law. Although it seems worldwide that politicians think it does.

I don't disagree here. But it should be noted that the same could be said about seizing power. 

[Sunderland]

2 hours ago, FrankThai said:

The army is doing a great job in a highly difficult situation.   Most Thais that I know support the stability that has been in place since the coup.

 

Democracy as practiced in Europe or the United States is not necessarily the best system in parts of Asia.  Different cultures may mean a different system. 

That is all very rose tinted, but sadly the average Thai has no idea about what really happened in 1973, 1976 and 1992.

[baboon]

2 hours ago, djjamie said:

I disagree with a lot of laws in Thailand, but I must respect them lest I suffer the consequences.

 

I refuse to make veiled statements calling you uneducated, but will say I respect your views on this forum and enjoy your input. 

 

I hope this does not break forum rules?

Would it matter?

[Stargeezr]

Waaaa,   Waaaa,  Waaaa,,   the poor  uhhhh colored  people...  I guess  the  struggles  continue.

   I am just glad that  Thailand  is  a mostly  Buddhist country,  and  will not  be  over run  by  the

non  Buddhist, people.  In  Europe, especially,  even  Merkel  is finally showing  a  bit  of worry.

  I  think that  most  countries  that  have  multi cultures  should  worry.

Geezer

[NongKhaiKid]

No problems making arrests etc then ?   

[Get Real]

12 hours ago, FrankThai said:

The army is doing a great job in a highly difficult situation.   Most Thais that I know support the stability that has been in place since the coup.

 

Democracy as practiced in Europe or the United States is not necessarily the best system in parts of Asia.  Different cultures may mean a different system. 

Exactly right! A great example of that is what everyone calls freedom of speech. I know many people that has moved to Thailand, and the freedom of speech is sometimes too much. In that case it regards thingss that we europeans and americans think about as private talks inside closed doors. In Thailand that informations is often widely spread all from the neighbours door to all the friends around. Maby something we do not always like, but have to accept because it´s the culture in the land we choose to live in. This is also affecting the way they want to control the communications over Internet, by the way that there is absolutely no way in the world that you can express yourself as you want in a place like that. To much power in different places and one single comment of the wrong nature can create a big problem.

[yellowboat]

12 hours ago, djjamie said:

I disagree with a lot of laws in Thailand, but I must respect them lest I suffer the consequences.

 

I refuse to make veiled statements calling you uneducated, but will say I respect your views on this forum and enjoy your input. 

 

I hope this does not break forum rules?

Here is a quote that speaks to your first sentence:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

Martin Niemöller

You may find comfort this one :

"It Is Dangerous to Be Right When the Government Is Wrong" Voltaire

Your restraint is commendable, but you may call me anything you like. 

 

[yellowboat]

15 hours ago, Get Real said:

Unfortunately this country has many people with very low or no education. These people are easy to manipulate by giving them a little extra money and support when they needed it most. That´s a big part of why they stayed in power for 15 years. Has absolutely not anything to do with right side of democracy. Just manipulation of people in a vurnarable situation, and that must be wrong all times it´s made.

 

Off course there is many rich people involved with high education too, but they are the ones that gets the bigger piece of the money cake, which also is wrong.

 

As a last question, I just ask what did you think was right with your comment?

He said they won elections.  What else does he have to say?  And Thomas Jefferson said this:  "I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson to William C. Jarvis, 1820. ME 15:278"   Tom might think that the electorate has had their rights taken from them. 

[Get Real]

12 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

He said they won elections.  What else does he have to say?  And Thomas Jefferson said this:  "I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson to William C. Jarvis, 1820. ME 15:278"   Tom might think that the electorate has had their rights taken from them. 

Correction: He did say that they won elections and it showed they were on the right side of democracy. I can agree with you that the people need a better education for make the right choises and understand what they really are woting for. Regarding the thought about that democratic elections are taking away the rights from people can not be more wrong. An election is the only, still remaining, procedure where there´s still one person one wote. With that said everybody have the same power to choose. So, Tom was only partially right, but on the other hand it happened a little bit since 1820. LOL

Edited December 17, 2016 by Get Real

[aussieinthailand]

17 hours ago, djjamie said:

No doubt they will get suspended sentences so they can continue to flout the law and complain about being targeted despite the fact that they knew they were breaking the law.

 

So quike to judge there big fella,,,   Do you not remember the junta leader's comment just after they were formed as a group of people looking at the draft?  He said he wasn't worried about them then the next few day's arrested and charged and gaoled. 

You know that would not fly back in OZ but you think it's ok in the LOS

So, how you lovin the junta's plan for the single gateway?    Cool huh???

Or his burden of fighting corruption, as long as it's not his family or selected followers.  What a joke...!  as well as the supporters.

[robblok]

14 hours ago, Ricardo said:

" in 2014 when his sister, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra was toppled in a coup. "

 

I thought that former-PM Yingluck left office on 7th May 2014, a couple-of-weeks before the coup on 22nd May, but Reuters or their sources know better ?

 

Perhaps they might check their facts more often, as a respected news-organisation ? 

Indeed always misinformation its just stupid.  She stepped down before the coup was not even in power at that point. She stepped down after protests from the people forced her down for wanting to give amnesty to her corrupt brother in law. I wonder why they never mention that.. talking about bias.

[starky]

15 hours ago, Get Real said:

Unfortunately this country has many people with very low or no education. These people are easy to manipulate by giving them a little extra money and support when they needed it most. That´s a big part of why they stayed in power for 15 years. Has absolutely not anything to do with right side of democracy. Just manipulation of people in a vurnarable situation, and that must be wrong all times it´s made.

 

Off course there is many rich people involved with high education too, but they are the ones that gets the bigger piece of the money cake, which also is wrong.

 

As a last question, I just ask what did you think was right with your comment?

So it must be the fact that these people are so stupid and easy to manipulate that the junta is running 92% in all the polls. Obviously the love for a junta and master P is welcomed by the illiterate masses.

[Get Real]

5 minutes ago, starky said:

So it must be the fact that these people are so stupid and easy to manipulate that the junta is running 92% in all the polls. Obviously the love for a junta and master P is welcomed by the illiterate masses.

Yep, and if you read in different places the percent variate between 55-92 % depending on how and where the question is asked. 

 

A persons statement is is never strong without the opinion of people backing it up. That´s why Facebook and other social media can grow so strong and have the effect it actually has. Imagine all the people without the proper education adding all their non fact based statements on these strong sites on Internet. Again all this have with culture to do. In some places a discussion can be held on an accepable level, when in other places there are people spreading unlawful, misplaced or information that are not in line with rules for religion or monarchy in the country.

[aussieinthailand]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

Indeed always misinformation its just stupid.  She stepped down before the coup was not even in power at that point. She stepped down after protests from the people forced her down for wanting to give amnesty to her corrupt brother in law. I wonder why they never mention that.. talking about bias.

Now c'mon rob you know there's just a little more to it than that mate...

YL dissoved gov't and steped down as PM as requiared by law, then acting PM also as requiared by law and set elections within 60 day's and guess what also requiared by law. 

Did o'l Suthep follow the law? NO'P,  Did the junta leader follow the law?> NO'P.

You know just as well as everyone here knows that the amnisty bill failed and the coup was just an excuse to yet agian cheat the people of their choice of government...

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, aussieinthailand said:

Now c'mon rob you know there's just a little more to it than that mate...

YL dissoved gov't and steped down as PM as requiared by law, then acting PM also as requiared by law and set elections within 60 day's and guess what also requiared by law. 

Did o'l Suthep follow the law? NO'P,  Did the junta leader follow the law?> NO'P.

You know just as well as everyone here knows that the amnisty bill failed and the coup was just an excuse to yet agian cheat the people of their choice of government...

What you say everyone knows is what every redshirt believes. There were many that believed the amnesty bill could be revived. I am one of those there were plenty of law professors saying the same thing. That is why the protests went on. The people brought YL down and that is a fact that the reds hate because they could not claim that they had the people on their side anymore after this happened. 

 

The junta stepped in because of the fighting between the two sides, had YL not let off her dogs of war to bomb the protesters then the junta would not have had an excuse. 

[Get Real]

8 minutes ago, aussieinthailand said:

Now c'mon rob you know there's just a little more to it than that mate...

YL dissoved gov't and steped down as PM as requiared by law, then acting PM also as requiared by law and set elections within 60 day's and guess what also requiared by law. 

Did o'l Suthep follow the law? NO'P,  Did the junta leader follow the law?> NO'P.

You know just as well as everyone here knows that the amnisty bill failed and the coup was just an excuse to yet agian cheat the people of their choice of government...

You are right up until your last comment, about that the coup was stated just to cheat people out of a choice of government.

 

Why the military as a last resort for protecting the people and the country must step in time after time has shows it self so clearly so many times that you must be blind to miss that. Here it also goes back to understanding democracy, follow laws, rules, normal conduct and understanding by education. Instead people do like in many other countries with actually higher education or same low. They bomb, burn, kill, shoot and destroy things because they are not happy. Until the people can understand a democratic process and behave in a way that is not deadly and destructive, the military will continue to move in and kling to power. At least it gets calm and people can feel more safe on the streets.

The same can be said about the computer crime act. If there is no laws and regulations on Internet, it will turn in to anarchy. Obviously no one can shoot or bomb somebody on Internet, but even a virtual wound that is deep enough can take time and cost a lot of money to heal.

[yellowboat]

52 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Correction: He did say that they won elections and it showed they were on the right side of democracy. I can agree with you that the people need a better education for make the right choises and understand what they really are woting for. Regarding the thought about that democratic elections are taking away the rights from people can not be more wrong. An election is the only, still remaining, procedure where there´s still one person one wote. With that said everybody have the same power to choose. So, Tom was only partially right, but on the other hand it happened a little bit since 1820. LOL

Are you saying history is irrelevant because it is old ?  "LOL" ?  The COUP did nullify every last Thai person's vote, and yet you make fun of the red shirts because they wish congregate.     Tom's words guided a great nation.  Your words are, on the other hand, "LOL".       

[aussieinthailand]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

What you say everyone knows is what every redshirt believes. There were many that believed the amnesty bill could be revived. I am one of those there were plenty of law professors saying the same thing. That is why the protests went on. The people brought YL down and that is a fact that the reds hate because they could not claim that they had the people on their side anymore after this happened. 

 

The junta stepped in because of the fighting between the two sides, had YL not let off her dogs of war to bomb the protesters then the junta would not have had an excuse. 

"What you say everyone knows is what every redshirt beleives."  

Well mate that would be because what I said is true and can be checked. 

regarding protests and new elections, YL followed the laws of the land and Suthep and the junta leader broke the laws of the land, somthing the Yellow shirts and junta huggers hate as they know it's the truth...

I agree that the amnisty bill (could) hve been revived. But it would have had to go through the motions agian which it did not...!

As for your cliam they did not have the people on their side any more, c'mon rob,  really...

The fact is YL followed the law by setting elections with in 60 day's of gov't being disolved.

Suthep had his thugs bloking polling boths and people from voting and bashing those that tried, men women and grandmothers, you remember the photo's don't you?  So who had let loose the dog's of war???

Yes there was violence and yes it was on both sides and yes, just ask the cop that had half his leg blow apart by a grenade thrown at them by the protesters...  Trying to tout one side as being violent and the other as inocent is rediculess.

 

 

[LannaGuy]

42 minutes ago, robblok said:

What you say everyone knows is what every redshirt believes. There were many that believed the amnesty bill could be revived. I am one of those there were plenty of law professors saying the same thing. That is why the protests went on. The people brought YL down and that is a fact that the reds hate because they could not claim that they had the people on their side anymore after this happened. 

 

The junta stepped in because of the fighting between the two sides, had YL not let off her dogs of war to bomb the protesters then the junta would not have had an excuse. 

 

you been on the juice again?  'everyone knows' there were 'other' reasons not in any way related to your story

[Get Real]

4 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Are you saying history is irrelevant because it is old ?  "LOL" ?  The COUP did nullify every last Thai person's vote, and yet you make fun of the red shirts because they wish congregate.     Tom's words guided a great nation.  Your words are, on the other hand, "LOL".       

How great the nation is naturally is a positive opinion from all americans, but if you look world wide you get another perspective on that. How ever this is not a thread to bash USA, and I have a couple of relevant questions for you.

 

1. Where did I make a joke out of the red shirts? (Are you trying to say that all red shirts have a low education? I never siad that.)
2. Never said that history was irrelevant, just that it was an old statement and things have changed and deleloped during the time since then. I also mark it as a joke. How can you get the thoughts that history is irrelevant?

3. My words regards the time we live in now. That means this thread and the situation in Thailand at the moment accepting laws, regulations and having a proper education level. How can that be words of "LOL" like you want to express yourself.

Of course the coup nullified every last vote from the Thais. That´s whats happens when the military take over, but they did not take over out of any other reason than an accurate judgement of the dangers to nation and people. Not to take any rights away from people more than that you can not burn, kill or bomb.
As a result out of all this I get a feeling about that you do not want a system in Thailand that has the control needed for acheiving the goals needed for a working democracy and not have people reacting in the wrong ways.

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, aussieinthailand said:

"What you say everyone knows is what every redshirt beleives."  

Well mate that would be because what I said is true and can be checked. 

regarding protests and new elections, YL followed the laws of the land and Suthep and the junta leader broke the laws of the land, somthing the Yellow shirts and junta huggers hate as they know it's the truth...

I agree that the amnisty bill (could) hve been revived. But it would have had to go through the motions agian which it did not...!

As for your cliam they did not have the people on their side any more, c'mon rob,  really...

The fact is YL followed the law by setting elections with in 60 day's of gov't being disolved.

Suthep had his thugs bloking polling boths and people from voting and bashing those that tried, men women and grandmothers, you remember the photo's don't you?  So who had let loose the dog's of war???

Yes there was violence and yes it was on both sides and yes, just ask the cop that had half his leg blow apart by a grenade thrown at them by the protesters...  Trying to tout one side as being violent and the other as inocent is rediculess.

 

 

Violence on both sides.. an other fine red spin, we forget who killed the kids during this conflict and who cheered for violence....  The reds have always been the more violent bunch. That is a fact that everyone knows.. unlike your facts. The bill would not have to go through the motions again. That was the problem, it could have been just voted in. That is why the protest went on because nobody trusted YL. (why would anyone trust her when she secretly put her brothers name there after stating she would not.

 

Sure there was violence from the yellow's too in response to the bombings, they had to protect themselves at the police under Charlem was not really on their side and loved it because it helped to reduce the amount of protesters. Do I believe that the yellows were innocent.. no.. do i believe the reds were far more violent (4 kids dead because of them). yes I believe that. 

 

As for Suthep he is a thug, not someone I like at all. 

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

 

you been on the juice again?  'everyone knows' there were 'other' reasons not in any way related to your story

 

I don't drink sorry so no juice here.

 

Come on prove the other reasons.. you mean its rumored that..... 

 

The army could never have come in power without the stupidity of the amnesty law. I doubt they counted on that so there goes your theory. Unless you say that the PTP is so stupid that the army had planned in their stupidity. Without the large scale protests and the deaths there would not have been a coup. 

[aussieinthailand]

34 minutes ago, Get Real said:

You are right up until your last comment, about that the coup was stated just to cheat people out of a choice of government.

 

Why the military as a last resort for protecting the people and the country must step in time after time has shows it self so clearly so many times that you must be blind to miss that. Here it also goes back to understanding democracy, follow laws, rules, normal conduct and understanding by education. Instead people do like in many other countries with actually higher education or same low. They bomb, burn, kill, shoot and destroy things because they are not happy. Until the people can understand a democratic process and behave in a way that is not deadly and destructive, the military will continue to move in and kling to power. At least it gets calm and people can feel more safe on the streets.

The same can be said about the computer crime act. If there is no laws and regulations on Internet, it will turn in to anarchy. Obviously no one can shoot or bomb somebody on Internet, but even a virtual wound that is deep enough can take time and cost a lot of money to heal.

Hmmm no'p my last comment was pretty well on the button.

The military have alway's sided with the ruling elite, and when some one decides that the ruling elite need to be removed then the military are used agian regardless of the will of the people...

 

All coup's are planed well ahead of it's take over...

[DaveE13]

Mention redshirts in any headline is like catnip to usual suspects

[Thailand]

None so blind etc!

[Get Real]

25 minutes ago, aussieinthailand said:

Hmmm no'p my last comment was pretty well on the button.

The military have alway's sided with the ruling elite, and when some one decides that the ruling elite need to be removed then the military are used agian regardless of the will of the people...

 

All coup's are planed well ahead of it's take over...

Oh, I am sorry. You must have some secret information that no one else have. That money controls what happens is known world wide, but from that to say it´s planned coups by the money elite is a little extreme.

At the same time you say that the military always sided with the ruling elite, and then say that they go in when someone decides that the ruling elite must be removed is a contradiction of astronomical meassures.
Who is deciding then? The Ruling Superior or?

Can you mention when the military take over the country without any unrest that puts people and country in danger and jeopardy both domestic and internationally? That´s the reason they go in, and off course that is what the ruling elite also want´s. The reason for that is they have investments both internationally and domestic that are in jeopardy of being ruined.

[aussieinthailand]

20 minutes ago, robblok said:

Violence on both sides.. an other fine red spin, we forget who killed the kids during this conflict and who cheered for violence....  The reds have always been the more violent bunch. That is a fact that everyone knows.. unlike your facts. The bill would not have to go through the motions again. That was the problem, it could have been just voted in. That is why the protest went on because nobody trusted YL. (why would anyone trust her when she secretly put her brothers name there after stating she would not.

 

Sure there was violence from the yellow's too in response to the bombings, they had to protect themselves at the police under Charlem was not really on their side and loved it because it helped to reduce the amount of protesters. Do I believe that the yellows were innocent.. no.. do i believe the reds were far more violent (4 kids dead because of them). yes I believe that. 

 

As for Suthep he is a thug, not someone I like at all. 

"Violence on both sides.. an other fine red spin,"    What the??  No spin mate fact...!  What is a little strange is first you call it "spin" then latter you agree there was violence from both sides but cliam one side more violent that the other,  So ok mate got any sort of numbers of red shirts and yellow shirts that were killed say in the last 20 years???   ok so reckon that the numbers would show that it is by far that the red shirts have been killed in far greater numbers than yellow shirts...!

As for the 19 people being charged in this issue, hey I'm not saying all are inocent, and I'm not saying they are all guilty.

But what they did do was set up a group to look at the draft constitution and what it means for the people nd the junta didn't like it.

So what would you call that???

I'm not a red supporter nor a yellow supporter, or a YL/Thaksin or Pryuth supporter,  but wht I am a supporter of is the peoples right to gather and talk about how their country is being run without fear of being arested and gaoled...

[Eric Loh]

https://www.strategypage.com/qnd/thai/articles/20160615.aspx

 

These 19 redshirt leaders are just a small number of growing citizens who are fed-up with the coup. Activisits, academicians, yellow shirts, Dems, business and ordinary folks are unhappy with the economy, pivot to China, increasing southern violence, intimidation, arbitrary arrest and the article 44 abuses. And now this thrust in your throat cyper law. How on earth are people so blind to take on the junta side is beyond my comprehension. And the ridiculous reason that coup was to prevent a civil war, a convenient excuse for a carefully crafty plan lead by Suthep.