Thailand is struggling to handle its tourism boom

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, The Dark Lord said:

SadlySpiderMike, you are absolutely spot on in your summation of the decline in tourism in what used to be one of the most sought after destinations for exotic ( and erotic) getaways. 

 

I am am happily married to the current Mrs Dark Lord who is an indig of these parts and we retired here about four years ago. The decline in standards that we have seen over this relatively short time is forcing us to reconsider spending our autumnal years here with me being increasingly hounded and her having to defend me or listen to my gripes about the state of things. 

 

Life is is too short to embrace all that bull droppings.

 

as my Father used to say "you make your bed , you lie on it" it I do not suppose that holds true as the clowns taking the decisions to make tourism figures fall ( in terms of ££ per tourist capita per day) will undoubtedly have already had their nest feathered and the pain will be shouldered by the ever forgiving masses.

 

shame!

 

 

I tend to agree with some of what you say. I too am considering other spots. Currently the top spot under consideration seems to be Spain. So much culture, great wine, alot of fascinating places to visit nearby, reasonable real estate, a language I speak, and a reasonable standard of living. The other spots in this region offer too much similar nonsense, and bad infrastructure. Too many despot "so called leaders" in this region too. And the really hot weather, which seems to be getting hotter, and drier, is not all that appealing, as I get older. Thailand is making no steps whatsoever, to improve upon itself. On alot of levels, it feels like it is either standing still, or more than likely going backwards. Frankly, the biggest draw at the moment is being close to my wife's family, the food, the relatively pleasant people, and the weakening of the baht. But, I despise the government, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality. 

[BuckBee]

Lack of investment at every level and poor governance has led to massive decline. I did look at going chiang mai, plenty hotel availability this year but decided on hoi an vietnam as they invested and i get benefit from it .

Thailand is in denial, another year and it will be hard deny the issues, amount of closed businesses and ones struggling increase every time i pass through, poor visa implementation will also hit the income, so called cheap falang floating around for 6months to a year+ spent fair bit of money and if added them all together it supported lot of businesses

[Uncle Bob]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Absolute, complete nonsense. Every statement in that article was ridiculous, except the lack of expansion of highways, trains, or transportation in general.

 

I have a friend who recently stayed on Samui. He stayed at a resort that has 54 rooms. Normally, they are 100% booked, from about Dec. 20th, to about January 5th. This year, they only had 22 rooms filled. They are down 60% for the peak season. Many resorts are experiencing similarly alarming numbers. These hotels counted on the government to support them, when they spend millions on their properties, and the government has let them down, once again. They continue to drop the ball, at every opportunity. 

 

They trot out these projections, every time they get scared, and see the numbers dropping. Who was it that said, if you tell the people something often enough, eventually they will believe it? Well, not us. We are not buying your simpleton lies. Tourism is declining by the day. Perhaps 50 years from now, in a hospitality industry class at a university here, they will discuss how Thailand lost the golden egg of Western tourism. Those tourists, unlike most Chinese tourists, spent anywhere from $100 a day, to over $1,000 a day. They brought real money into the country, and in exchange, were treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, most said no more. Thailand thought the country was something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply lost sight of the big picture, and had very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned.  

 

The real solution is about encouraging tourists, and ex-pats, from countries that spend real money, to come here and visit. That message seems to have gotten lost, in the fervor to court the Chinese tourists, many of whom do not spend much money at all here. So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. They came. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. 

 

It is a real shame, as I find most Thai people to be quite lovely, friendly, warm, helpful and fun to be around. I am sure many feel the same way.

 

The Thai people are very friendly and nice indeed. However, the richer they get the less friendly and more xenophobic they become. The super rich are ruling Thailand... When will the people of this great country wake up and kick out the parasites, you know who I'm talking about. Brown, green, yellow maybe...

[SparklingCascades]

This story is an good example of 'fake news' sometimes by sources we would normally trust. The on-ground reality in hotels, restaurants, bars & souvenir shops is very very different to the "increase", "influx" of tourists reported in this fake news story.

 

The Thai tourism industry is facing an uphill battle given-

1) Newly opened neighboring destinations ie: Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Myanmar which are able to replicate the Thai holiday experience,

2) Once attractive beaches in Thailand are now over-developed, water polluted or strewn with trash which means what tourists paid for many years back is no longer an attraction,

3) Regular attacks on foreigners are highlighted on Facebook & Youtube painting a picture of mounting violence & law/order problems over the past 3 years. This may be incorrect but Thailand gets measured relative to neighboring countries and tourists opt for worry-free violence-free settings after seeing regular news items on social media,

4) Off-the-beaten-track holidays are picking up in demand which means less-trodden destinations in Asia now sound attractive especially since information and access to these off-the-beaten-track areas can now be gained at the click of a phone button.

 

My country is facing a tourism crisis borne out by anecdotal evidence from hoteliers, restauranteurs, bar-owners, shop-keepers..........so how this story comes up with its huge positive spin about Thai tourism is quite a mystery.  I can only guess that this story counts number of people arriving (whether in transit or whatever) and fails to recognize an important truth about Tourism Income/Revenue IE Low Budget travelers do not make significant contributions to Tourism Revenue/Income no matter how many millions of them arrive in a country. Sadly, my country is a magnet for low-budget travelers on shoe-string budgets. So tourism numbers do not translate to tourism revenue/income for Thailand. The news items (or World Bank data release0 is not well thought of and contains misleading information.

[Uncle Bob]

2 hours ago, The Dark Lord said:

SadlySpiderMike, you are absolutely spot on in your summation of the decline in tourism in what used to be one of the most sought after destinations for exotic ( and erotic) getaways. 

 

I am am happily married to the current Mrs Dark Lord who is an indig of these parts and we retired here about four years ago. The decline in standards that we have seen over this relatively short time is forcing us to reconsider spending our autumnal years here with me being increasingly hounded and her having to defend me or listen to my gripes about the state of things. 

 

Life is is too short to embrace all that bull droppings.

 

as my Father used to say "you make your bed , you lie on it" it I do not suppose that holds true as the clowns taking the decisions to make tourism figures fall ( in terms of ££ per tourist capita per day) will undoubtedly have already had their nest feathered and the pain will be shouldered by the ever forgiving masses.

 

shame!

 

There will come an end to this, sooner or later. The masses are waking up. They are better informed than say 20 years ago with the internet and social media. Must be hard to work your ass off and see your business go down the drain because of those corrupt and inadequate clowns... Time will tell and I hope there will be no civil war but I am not sure of that.

[NCC1701A]

1 hour ago, GeorgeCross said:

tourists have finally arrived in Hua Hin over the last week, which all though pleasant right now, is a shame for Hua Hin as over the last decade i'd considered it one of the last remaining places that still had a "high season" that ran from October to March.

 

This year it's looking like it's joined the ranks of 2 week high seasons as well 

 

oh well can't say you wasn't warned Thailand..

I also live in Hua Hin and while it has picked up the last few weeks it has been a very slow "high season" so far. Nothing like two years ago. It is easy to see all the empty bars and FAR less traffic on the streets and empty beach chairs.

 

After the 2014 coup hit the news media, a friend back in the states sent me a message asking if I was going to flee the country. People really don't like the sound of "military coup". 

 

And the bombing in Bangkok and Hua Hin, the really bad PR of the Farang woman getting her head used as a soccer ball in Hua Hin and the police trying to cover it up, negative press about removing beach chairs along the entire Hun Hin beach area plus the big event and the month/year long period of mourning and all the press about no music, parties and concerts really put a damper on this year.  

[GarryP]

19 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

 

I tend to agree with some of what you say. I too am considering other spots. Currently the top spot under consideration seems to be Spain. So much culture, great wine, alot of fascinating places to visit nearby, reasonable real estate, a language I speak, and a reasonable standard of living. The other spots in this region offer too much similar nonsense, and bad infrastructure. Too many despot "so called leaders" in this region too. And the really hot weather, which seems to be getting hotter, and drier, is not all that appealing, as I get older. Thailand is making no steps whatsoever, to improve upon itself. On alot of levels, it feels like it is either standing still, or more than likely going backwards. Frankly, the biggest draw at the moment is being close to my wife's family, the food, the relatively pleasant people, and the weakening of the baht. But, I despise the government, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality. 

You have hit nearly enough nails on the head to keep the coffin lid in place.

 

"Too many despot "so called leaders" in this region too. ........ Thailand is making no steps whatsoever, to improve upon itself. On alot of levels, it feels like it is either standing still, or more than likely going backwards. ........................ But, I despise the government, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality."  

[daveAustin]

Thailand is struggling to handle its tourism boom

 

Here, let me put this right: Thailand is struggling to handle its lack of tourism.

Edited December 27, 2016 by daveAustin

[NCC1701A]

"Thailand is struggling to handle its tourism boom boom"

 

there, i fixed the headline.

[natway09]

When they talk about infrastructure they mean   water,,, sewerage  & waste water (eg laundries) treatment, electricity etc along with responsible 

mini van, taxi & bus drivers  Ha Ha,,,,  non existent

[WhizBang]

18 hours ago, Searat7 said:

The main airport is 10 years old already and has yet to be expanded despite numerous announcements. I will believe them when I see the expanded facilities.

The BTS is more crowded than usual during the day...I think they need to look at frequency of trains....I think they are cutting back too much from rush hour frequency.

 

 

Not only do they need to increase the frequency of trains, but they should be looking at adding additional carrages too.  The stations can handle 6 carriage trains (maybe 7).  MRT has the same problem as BTS with serious over crowding now too.

 

And when, if ever, are we going to get a single pass card for both BTS and MRT?   It was promised when the MRT started operating.  Then it was promised again when BTS switched to the Rabbit card.  And still NOTHING.
 

[wow64]

Must be all the good raping that are going on recently that is increasing the tourism.

[alocacoc]

To me it seems the current high season is the worst ever. No clue where all the tourists are hiding.

[GarryP]

12 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

"Thailand is struggling to handle its tourism boom boom"

 

there, i fixed the headline.

I think "Thailand is struggling to handle its tourism implosion" works better.

[selftaopath]

3 hours ago, Lupatria said:

This was much needed “news” as no one I talked to in the industry was aware there is a boom. 

 

                                      

Fox "News" for sure.

[hawker9000]

"Thailand is struggling to handle its tourism boom"

 

   Please!  Stop it!!!  You're killing me here!!!!!    5555555555

 

'Cutting it close, but just in time for this year's Comedy Awards!

 

 

[tropo]

6 hours ago, Suttisan said:

This is odd,  I was in Thailand a month a go, the hotels I stayed in in Bangkok,  Samet and chiang mai were mostly empty. 

 

I checked for bookings at a very popular Bkk hotel yesterday and they had vacancies for the week from 2 January and the price was only slightly higher than regular price.

[spidermike007]

27 minutes ago, WhizBang said:

 

Not only do they need to increase the frequency of trains, but they should be looking at adding additional carrages too.  The stations can handle 6 carriage trains (maybe 7).  MRT has the same problem as BTS with serious over crowding now too.

 

And when, if ever, are we going to get a single pass card for both BTS and MRT?   It was promised when the MRT started operating.  Then it was promised again when BTS switched to the Rabbit card.  And still NOTHING.
 

 

There is very little effort being made to improve anything. To say the nation is standing still would be a compliment, and an absence of the truth. So much work needs to be done, and so little is actually happening. It is shocking how much the country is "not moving forward".

[KarenBravo]

Once it becomes obvious to everyone that quality tourists have left, so that even the government cannot deny it any further, it'll be "foreigners" that will get the blame.

[elgordo38]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

"Bottlenecks are building up in destinations like Chiang Mai, Bangkok and Phuket, while infrastructure still hasn't expanded," Kiatipong Ariyapruchya said

Infrastructure expansion costs well you know the dreaded m word. Yes there are bottlenecks as my toilet seems to plug up from time to time. With 70 million residents and 30 million tourists that means almost a 100 million flushes a day. Oh dear. 

[YeahSiam]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Absolute, complete nonsense. Every statement in that article was ridiculous, except the lack of expansion of highways, trains, or transportation in general.

 

I have a friend who recently stayed on Samui. He stayed at a resort that has 54 rooms. Normally, they are 100% booked, from about Dec. 20th, to about January 5th. This year, they only had 22 rooms filled. They are down 60% for the peak season. Many resorts are experiencing similarly alarming numbers. These hotels counted on the government to support them, when they spend millions on their properties, and the government has let them down, once again. They continue to drop the ball, at every opportunity. 

 

They trot out these projections, every time they get scared, and see the numbers dropping. Who was it that said, if you tell the people something often enough, eventually they will believe it? Well, not us. We are not buying your simpleton lies. Tourism is declining by the day. Perhaps 50 years from now, in a hospitality industry class at a university here, they will discuss how Thailand lost the golden egg of Western tourism. Those tourists, unlike most Chinese tourists, spent anywhere from $100 a day, to over $1,000 a day. They brought real money into the country, and in exchange, were treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, most said no more. Thailand thought the country was something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply lost sight of the big picture, and had very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned.  

 

The real solution is about encouraging tourists, and ex-pats, from countries that spend real money, to come here and visit. That message seems to have gotten lost, in the fervor to court the Chinese tourists, many of whom do not spend much money at all here. So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. They came. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. 

 

It is a real shame, as I find most Thai people to be quite lovely, friendly, warm, helpful and fun to be around. I am sure many feel the same way.

 

How do you know what Chinese tourists spend here?

Are you a fly on the wall in the various Chinese-owned businesses many of them drop serious cash in after being corralled into by tour guides?

Are you present as they drop hundreds of thousands of baht on designer guff in Siam Paragon or EM Quartier?

 

This notion of the farang being the class of the field when it comes to visitors to Thailand is a myth.

It may have had some basis in fact a decade ago but not any more; the 2008/09 financial crisis put paid to that.

Thailand decided to compensate for the Great White Dope's absence by courting those they perceived to have real money - the Chinese and other Asians.

It was a logical move at the time 

 

Western tourists were not scammed, disrespected and abused en masse - they just didn't like the fact that Thais stopped thinking the average farang deserved deified status any more especially considering the propensity for more than a few to act like total ass wipes when here.

Most Western tourists to this country leave having been treated well and thoroughly enjoyed their time here.

No amount of carping on a forum for dinosaurs lamenting the passing of Thai adulation is going to change that

 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, nong38 said:

Sooner or later the penny will drop, the propaganda and reality are not the same and figures can be used to mean whatever you want them to.

The biggest thing Thailand could do to boost tourism is to take care of the ones that come and encourage them to come back, a start would be to stop ripping them off at every opportunity. It might seem strange to the culture in this part of the world but someone thinks they have been ripped off they make a mental note not to come back, there are plenty of other places to visit.

 

Very true. They always say the industry will revive, and things will get back to normal. My guess is that when they have meetings they discuss all of the economic problems in the world, and all of the other reasons that have little to no connection to why the tourists are not coming. The industry will not come back. The days of the thriving Thai tourism industry are behind us. The big spending Westerners have already written the country off, for the most part. The Chinese may continue coming, and spending very, very little here, since the country is not able to attract the kind of Chinese tourists what would really benefit the local people. 

 

Frankly, all of this is good for most of us. It means a continually weaker baht, a slowdown in the economy, lower prices, better hospitality, and ease of travel. However, my heart goes out to the average Thai, who is dependent on tourism. Someone they were counting on, has really, really let them down. 

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, YeahSiam said:

 

How do you know what Chinese tourists spend here?

Are you a fly on the wall in the various Chinese-owned businesses many of them drop serious cash in after being corralled into by tour guides?

Are you present as they drop hundreds of thousands of baht on designer guff in Siam Paragon or EM Quartier?

 

This notion of the farang being the class of the field when it comes to visitors to Thailand is a myth.

It may have had some basis in fact a decade ago but not any more; the 2008/09 financial crisis put paid to that.

Thailand decided to compensate for the Great White Dope's absence by courting those they perceived to have real money - the Chinese and other Asians.

It was a logical move at the time 

 

Western tourists were not scammed, disrespected and abused en masse - they just didn't like the fact that Thais stopped thinking the average farang deserved deified status any more especially considering the propensity for more than a few to act like total ass wipes when here.

Most Western tourists to this country leave having been treated well and thoroughly enjoyed their time here.

No amount of carping on a forum for dinosaurs lamenting the passing of Thai adulation is going to change that

 

 

 

I am not going to dispute some of the incorrect notions you have posted here. But, I do know that Thailand does not offer the kinds of services that the rich Chinese, that you describe as the types that would drop hundreds of thousands of baht in the local malls, would need in order to thrive, at this point in time. They are visiting Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, New York, Paris, London, Tokyo, and other destinations that offer first class service, luxury shopping without stupid amounts of duty, a thriving wine industry, and culture. How many of these rich Chinese tourists do you know? They are very sophisticated. They are typically smart, and savvy buyers. They do not tend to spend double, to compensate for the silly luxury import duty policies in place here. I have spoken to countless business owners who have all repeated basically the same thing about the average Chinese tourist that comes to Thailand. They just do not spend much money, and they just do not seem to have much money. Some of these tours are as little a $200 for a few days in Thailand. They are currently attracting Chinese tourists that are at the bottom of the demographic barrel. 

 

I knew alot of these so called white tourists. They spent $1,000 a day and up. I know a number of GM's, of five star hotels. They tell me that other than business travelers, few of them are showing up these days. Believe what you want. Whatever makes you happy. 

[Squeegee]

4 minutes ago, YeahSiam said:

Western tourists were not scammed, disrespected and abused en masse - they just didn't like the fact that Thais stopped thinking the average farang deserved deified status any more especially considering the propensity for more than a few to act like total ass wipes when here.

 

Apologist nonsense.

 

"Western tourists were not scammed, disrespected and abused en masse" and yet there is a falang deaths dot com; the daily beatings... I can't be bothered to add to the long list that apologists like YeahSiam blatantly lie about.

 

Such daft thinking raises the question why YeahSiam isn't campaigning for foreigners to be barred from Thailand, where they "were not scammed" but still "more than a few" act like ass wipes.

[YeahSiam]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Frankly, all of this is good for most of us. It means a continually weaker baht, a slowdown in the economy, lower prices, better hospitality, and ease of travel. However, my heart goes out to the average Thai, who is dependent on tourism. Someone they were counting on, has really, really let them down. 

 

You prove my point right there.

Many farangs - tourists and economic migrants - are literally begging the gods for more favourable exchange rates because so many of them are on the bones of their <deleted> here.

Since when does typical Thai business practice result in a lowering of prices when times get tough?

 

Why would anyone think that the market or the Thai central bank is going to devalue the baht to please a few financially-strapped pensioners whose homelands are pursuing policies that deliberately weaken their currencies?

If they do decide to pursue those policies, it will be to boost their exports, not to help Ernie from Scunthorpe pay for a back-soi soapy twice a week without eating into his foodhall nosebag budget.

Why should Thailand follow the West down the lavatory?

[Squeegee]

Furthermore, with regards to the poster YeahSiam's comment:

 

"Western tourists [...] just didn't like the fact that Thais stopped thinking the average farang deserved deified status..."

 

This is blatant anti-Westerner lies.

 

For example, many Thais like foreigners precisely because we are outside of hierarchical culture, being from meritocracies, so very often we treat the women with more respect than Thai patriarchalism, or students feel they can be more open-minded with the foreign teacher.

Those are just two common examples.

 

From a practical, survivalist's point of view there are the foreigners who get by in Thailand (stay breathing) by smiling a lot and keeping out of trouble - that is, living their life defensively in a potentially unsafe place. Again, nothing like YeahSiam's nonsense fantasy.

 

But really, all of the details are by the by because YeahSiam claims Western tourists think they deserve deified status, and although it may be true for a small, stupid minority, the fact is it is clear as day YeahSiam makes gross generalizations about a whole race with very little of real intelligence to add to a discussion.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Squeegee

[Moonmoon]

All the raids on illegal hotels in chiang mai n soapy massage joints in ratchada has cause the shortage in infrastructure apparently...

[spidermike007]

29 minutes ago, YeahSiam said:

 

You prove my point right there.

Many farangs - tourists and economic migrants - are literally begging the gods for more favourable exchange rates because so many of them are on the bones of their <deleted> here.

Since when does typical Thai business practice result in a lowering of prices when times get tough?

 

Why would anyone think that the market or the Thai central bank is going to devalue the baht to please a few financially-strapped pensioners whose homelands are pursuing policies that deliberately weaken their currencies?

If they do decide to pursue those policies, it will be to boost their exports, not to help Ernie from Scunthorpe pay for a back-soi soapy twice a week without eating into his foodhall nosebag budget.

Why should Thailand follow the West down the lavatory?

 

 

The central bank would most likely not deliberately weaken the baht. But, there are so many other factors here. Exports, foreign exchange markets, money withdrawn from Thai markets, as the economy continues to falter, and the US economy improves, continued lack of confidence in the government here, and many more factors. Many of us are doing quite well, so this concept you have about alot of ex-pats just barely hanging on is bizarre at best, and totally false at worst. Sure there are some on thin pensions, but I know many who are very comfortable. And if Western tourists are getting poorer, it is because the local policies and practices have pushed away the more affluent among them. 

Edited December 27, 2016 by spidermike007

[mduras01]

I don't know what you guys are talking about--Chiang Mai is packed. The malls are packed. My gf owns a massage shop and business literally quadrupled in the last few weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[YeahSiam]

24 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

 

The central bank would most likely not deliberately weaken the baht. But, there are so many other factors here. Exports, foreign exchange markets, money withdrawn from Thai markets, as the economy continues to falter, and the US economy improves, continued lack of confidence in the government here, and many more factors. Many of us are doing quite well, so this concept you have about alot of ex-pats just barely hanging on is bizarre at best, and totally false at worst. Sure there are some on thin pensions, but I know many who are very comfortable. And if Western tourists are getting poorer, it is because the local policies and practices have pushed away the more affluent among them. 

 

Yeah you go right ahead and carry on convincing yourself.

You only have to see the multitude of Thaivisa topics focused on the future for exchange rates to see just how concerned many people are about their ability to stay here over the medium to long-term.

A lot of "expats" are struggling. For every example of one doing nicely, there are 10 or 20 for whom the choice between a 300 baht full English/American breakfast and a rub 'n' tug is a major headache