MFA now asking compulsory proof of funds before allowing to marry a mighty thai

[Mangostin]

...http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/962102-wow-this-country-its-getting-better-and-better/#comment-11491986

 

An official website from a branch of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (italian consulate in Bangkok), it's now warning that the thai Mistery of Faranging Affairs (MFA or somethings like that), will NOT let anyone marry their new found missus, unless they can prove enough funds, (no mentions of the amount, but expect it to be something they would like all the quality tourists inside their wildest dreams to have).

No self certifications accepted, they want to see the money.

You can read it by yourself (use Google Translate or similar, as it's not in english), by going to this link belonging to the italian ministry of foreign affairs (MFA= "Esteri").

 

"  Dal settembre 2016 il Ministero degli Esteri thailandese richiede tassativamente una certificazione relativa al reddito del cittadino italiano nubendo/a. Questo comporta che, al momento della richiesta del Nulla Osta al matrimonio, il cittadino italiano sia residente sia non residente dovrà comprovare la propria condizione economica con la C.U. o certificato equivalente.

Non si potrà rilasciare il Nulla Osta senza la documentazione idonea relativa al reddito, poiché l’autocertificazione è da considerarsi valida solo verso l’amministrazione pubblica italiana.

Il Nulla Osta da presentare alle autorita' competenti Thailandesi viene rilasciato dall'Ambasciata a vista (salvo i casi di richiesta di verifica con il Comune di residenza di quanto autocertificato). "

 

Source:   http://www.ambbangkok.esteri.it/ambasciata_bangkok/it/informazioni_e_servizi/servizi_consolari/stato_civile

Edited January 6, 2017 by Crossy
Comment on moderation removed

[billd766]

Actually it is called the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 

I did a copy and paste of the Italian that you posted and it came out like this.

 

"Since September 2016 the Thai Foreign Ministry strictly requires a relative income certification of the Italian citizen betrothed / a. This means that, upon request of no impediment to marriage, the Italian citizen is a resident is not a resident must provide proof of their economic status with C.U. or equivalent certificate.

You will not release the security clearance without appropriate documentation relative to income, as self-certification is considered valid only towards the Italian public administration.

The required document to be presented to the authorities' competent Thai is issued by the Embassy in sight (except in cases of request for verification with the municipality of residence than self-certified). "

 

This letter only seems to apply to Italian citizens as it came from the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 

Whether it applies to all nationalities or just to Italians is not clear.

[Crossy]

Interesting that this is only found on the Italian consulate's website.

 

Do you have direct experience (or know someone) who has actually been refused?

 

I'm sure this would be hot news if it were actually happening. Anything on the MFA's own website?

[Rhys]

Informally, parental preparation cost...

[juice777]

This must be a mix up from the Italian side lol.



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[Mangostin]

33 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Do you have direct experience (or know someone) who has actually been refused?

 

I have lots and lots of acquaintances, and i managed to get this info second hand from someone which HAS been refused and was just asking me for some sort of guidance, as not everyone in Thailand can manage other lingoes.

So, now the question here is, what i should say to him?   

[Mangostin]

1 minute ago, juice777 said:

This must be a mix up from the Italian side lol.

 

Yeha surely is, my same kind of thoughts, it's the farang's fault, thais do not make mistakes, ever....

[Crossy]

Since he has actually been refused they should have told him the financial requirements.

 

Can he meet them?

 

Do you know what they were asking for?

 

It's all awfully vague and wooly (not saying it's not true).

[Mangostin]

It somehow seems to be a very well kept secret, i did ask the chap how much did they asked him for, but he got no reply (clerks inside the consulate are thais), maybe they haven't been told? Who knows?

For what i can see, the thai MFA it's not even mentioning it on their website, at least we got some info from somewhere else

[Sunak]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

I'm sure this would be hot news if it were actually happening. Anything on the MFA's own website?

VERY hot. Not only in Thaivisa.

Zero(!) news that I noticed so far.

(and I really read too much says my Thai wife)

 

A German guy (living on retirement extension) married his Thai girl friend in Banglamung (Pattaya) on September 30th, 2016.

Not a word about proof of funds.

He struggles yearly to get enough combined income/funds for his extension.

(it should be clear that funds are needed to live in Thailand based on marriage, that's an age old topic).

 

Zillions of reasons for rejection based on required documents/certificates/translations etc.

The last hurdle for the German was that he had to rush home to pick the receipt(!) for having paid for a stamp from the MFA.

 

Where (at which office) was that Italian guy rejected and no reason given?

What is his current status of staying in Thailand (visa, extension)?

Or did I get it completely wrong and he want to marry in Italy???

Edited January 6, 2017 by Sunak
Changed date

[Mangostin]

5 minutes ago, Sunak said:

and no reason given?

What is his current status of staying in Thailand (visa, extension)?

 

The reason for rejection was not enough funds and he's being denied a marriage with a thai citizen because of that, he's just a regular visitor which i believe, get a visa exemption because doesn't stay long and its nationality.

This is just another of those additional forms that get on top of all the others, these bureaucrats seems to be loosing their sleep at night, just to think of what might make life for the rest a bit harder....

Surely this last addition, will disrupt the life of countless future families, TIT

[Mangostin]

16 minutes ago, Sunak said:

Or did I get it completely wrong and he want to marry in Italy???

No he wants to marry here, and it's the thai ministry of foreign affair which it's making it compulsory to have this proof, so maybe there is a work around?

What about if he marry the thai citizen into a western country, and then ask for the thai side to recognise  the marriage here?

I am not a lawyer, and i think it would be of interest to know the opinion of one of them that it's familiar with these matters.

[Crossy]

I'm a bit confused, did he get turned down for his Affirmation of Freedom To Marry from the embassy, or turned down for the certification of the translation of same by the MFA?

 

One or other should have provided some information as to what was actually required.

 

There are translation outlets near the British embassy (and probably the Italian) who offer a one stop shop, doing the translations and getting the certification from the MFA. Could be worth paying them a visit.

 

I'm going to move this to Visas, where the knowledgeable ones reside.

[Mangostin]

From my understanding, this proof of funding will need to be provided on top of the affirmation of being free to marry, or simply the affirmation could not be provided if no proof of funds it's given.

But the part of it all that really intrigues me, it's this secrecy about how much they actually want to see, the thai MFA doesn't even mention it at all on their website, or at least i haven't being able to spot it

[ubonjoe]

I suspect this is just a requirement imposed by the Italian embassy.

The department of consular affairs of the Ministry of Foreign affairs would not have the authority to impose such a requirement to do a translation certification.

There is certainly no mention of it the consular affairs website here: http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/6441/71860-ขั้นตอนการรับรองนิติกรณ์เอกสาร---Legalization-Proc.html

Marriage in under the Ministry of Interior.

[Crossy]

Could one of our Italian speaking members contact the embassy and find out what's actually required, my Italian isn't up to it now?

[Maestro]

Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) has no say whatsoever regarding the requirements for a foreigner to marry a Thai national.

The district office sets the requirements, which I understand includes a certificate of freedom to marry. This certificate is issued by the consulate of the country of which the foreigner is a national.

The consulate sets the requirements for the issuance of this certificate.

The only involvement by the MFA is the certification of the authenticity of the consul's signature, nothing more.

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[Mangostin]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I suspect this is just a requirement imposed by the Italian embassy.

So, this means that an EU consulate, it's publishing fake information on their official website?

They clearly stated that it's the thai MFA which it's asking for it

[thedemon]

Difficult for me to see how the Ministry of Foreign Affairs could make an order such as this or why they would.

 

The Affirmation of marital status is required by local offices before they will register a marriage. That document is either issued directly by the foreigner's embassy in BKK or issued by a government office in the foreigner's country then endorsed by their embassy as being true and correct.

 

The only function of the MFA is to certify that the consular stamp and signature on that document is genuine.

 

From my experience when a foreign document such as this needs to be certified for official use in Thailand, it can be either done in the above manner or else it can be certified in the foreign country and authenticated by the Thai embassy in that country. In that case it doesn't involve the MFA in BKK.

[juice777]

So, this means that an EU consulate, it's publishing fake information on their official website?
They clearly stated that it's the thai MFA which it's asking for it

Its a mix up ,its obvious is don't ask me how but it is.

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[Mangostin]

2 minutes ago, juice777 said:

Its a mix up ,its obvious is don't ask me how but it is.

No ideas, the more i try to find out, the more confused i get, maybe it's simply another case of someone having a "power's trip" at the MFA, if it's true that they cannot make such a request, i wouldn't be surprised if that's the case....

[juice777]

No ideas, the more i try to find out, the more confused i get, maybe it's simply another case of someone having a "power's trip" at the MFA, if it's true that they cannot make such a request, i wouldn't be surprised if that's the case....

Probley something like that I can't see this being a new rule, and the first people say anything about it is the Italian embassy. Give it a week and I bet it will be gone from there Web site.

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[JJ Madcow]

I got Married in 2014, and part of it was to prove 40.000 baht income or more pr month. 

This was amphoe pak kret nonthaburi that ask for it.

The Danish Embassy know about this from other Danish people that have same problem before me, from other place in Thailand, And therefor have put my income in the paper saying i was able to Married and have a income "My amount pr month".

 

So it is not new, Well not for me anyway.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, JJ Madcow said:

I got Married in 2014, and part of it was to prove 40.000 baht income or more pr month. 

This was amphoe pak kret nonthaburi that ask for it.

The Danish Embassy know about this from other Danish people that have same problem before me, from other place in Thailand, And therefor have put my income in the paper saying i was able to Married and have a income "My amount pr month".

 

So it is not new, Well not for me anyway.

That is not the same as what was posted in the OP. The claim in the OP is that it is a requirement by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs not a an Amphoe.

Most embassies have a space for income on their affirmation of permit to marry form or template.

[thonglorjimmy]

I married in November, my affirmation from the British Embassy just required evidence that I was free to marry.

 

Nothing at all was asked at the MFA, though I did use a translation company to get the work done.

 

At the Amphur all they wanted was the affirmation, proof of my status in Thailand, copies of my appropriate pages in my passport covered that, and whilst they did ask me what my income was, no evidence was requested.

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post meant to derail the topic has been removed.

[bermannor]

Seldom read a thread with so many "could, should, may be etc."

A certain required amount of regular income or pension by a farang would be a good idea as founding and financing a marriage is normally the man's obligation, at least half of it.

 

[abrahamzvi]

On 1/6/2017 at 4:11 PM, Mangostin said:

No he wants to marry here, and it's the thai ministry of foreign affair which it's making it compulsory to have this proof, so maybe there is a work around?

What about if he marry the thai citizen into a western country, and then ask for the thai side to recognise  the marriage here?

I am not a lawyer, and i think it would be of interest to know the opinion of one of them that it's familiar with these matters.

According to international laws, an official marriage in a country which is recognized "de Jure" by Thailand is officially recognized in Thailand. However, the marriage of a Thai citizen outside of Thailand has to be registered by an Amphur. The foreign Marriage Certificate has to be translated into Thai and confirmed by the Embassy concerned and then by the consular department of the Thai Ministry of foreign affairs.

[Mangostin]

13 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

According to international laws, an official marriage in a country which is recognized "de Jure" by Thailand is officially recognized in Thailand. However, the marriage of a Thai citizen outside of Thailand has to be registered by an Amphur. The foreign Marriage Certificate has to be translated into Thai and confirmed by the Embassy concerned and then by the consular department of the Thai Ministry of foreign affairs.

So, as the thai MFA it's still involved, and this requirement originated from them, they can possibly still deny to recognise the marriage if no proof of funds it's submitted to them?

Whoever here, has connections (wink wink) at the MFA, should try to find out a bit more, especially if this new rule will apply to all the nationalities of the old continent (EU), as it's often the case, or just to some...

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Mangostin said:

So, as the thai MFA it's still involved, and this requirement originated from them, they can possibly still deny to recognise the marriage if no proof of funds it's submitted to them?

Whoever here, has connections (wink wink) at the MFA, should try to find out a bit more, especially if this new rule will apply to all the nationalities of the old continent (EU), as it's often the case, or just to some...

All the the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs does is verify the translation of the affirmation of permit to marry is correct. They approve nothing related to marriage.

If the info posted applied to all nationalities and was factual we would of known about it long ago.