If you are a Brit you cannot hide - scary !!

[i claudius]

On 1/26/2017 at 10:33 AM, evadgib said:

I know several Claude but they seem to have been tripped up or perhaps even bubbled rather than blatantly caught by DWP. Most now get round it by spending 6 months in UK. One or two report trying to cancel winter fuel allowance etc only to find that it is still being paid!

 

HTH

Funny you say that because when we came here we cancelled our child allowance ,they kept on paying it , we sent back two payments and they still wrote asking why we had returned them ,crazy .

[Get Real]

It´s not only the taxman the brits can´t hide from. Just being a brit today is totally visible all over the world. Was just a matter of time before the taxman got up to date and follow suite. LOL

[fulhamboy]

On 1/22/2017 at 5:11 PM, chiang mai said:

 

Yes the waiting time for treatment is a key element in all of this. I checked out the waiting times to see a couple of UK specialists where I'm going to be living for a few months and none are available in under 56 days, I'm therefore trying to get as much done here in Thailand before I go back for an extended holiday.

 

You can try and get cancelled NHS appointments online,  

[chiang mai]

Just now, fulhamboy said:

 

You can try and get cancelled NHS appointments online,  

A good thought for people actually needing treatment, I don't and was just checking out the wait times.

 

But I did go and have a gastroscopy yesterday at CM Ram and very pleasant it was too. Booked it three days in advance, had the 5 star treatment from a bevy of delightful and very caring nurses, was put to sleep mid banter with the anaesthetist and was released six hours later, 11,500 baht lighter - problem solved. Excellent value for money and a positive and interesting experience.

[evadgib]

<found a better place to post!>

Edited January 29, 2017 by evadgib

[Harveyboy]

On ‎12‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 1:00 PM, Savilesghost said:

The bigger concern is those UK pensioners who maintain a UK address to afford themselves the pension increases and things like winter fuel payments while living in Thailand, they will start going after these people for fraud 

hello so are you saying that if i dont maintain an address in the uk after i retire in which to claim for increase in pension and heating ect so not to defraud the government that it is ok to live in Thailand after i retire and claim pension or am i not reading this correctly  thanks

 

[chiang mai]

33 minutes ago, Harveyboy said:

hello so are you saying that if i dont maintain an address in the uk after i retire in which to claim for increase in pension and heating ect so not to defraud the government that it is ok to live in Thailand after i retire and claim pension or am i not reading this correctly  thanks

 

No it's not OK. The state pension cost of living increases AND the heating allowance are intended for people who live in the UK. Pension cost of living increases can be paid overseas but only to a country that has a reciprocal social security agreement, Thailand is not one of them.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

No it's not OK. The state pension cost of living increases AND the heating allowance are intended for people who live in the UK. Pension cost of living increases can be paid overseas but only to a country that has a reciprocal social security agreement, Thailand is not one of them.

Both of you can fill your boots in this pinned thread:

 

 

 

[JB300]

hello so are you saying that if i dont maintain an address in the uk after i retire in which to claim for increase in pension and heating ect so not to defraud the government that it is ok to live in Thailand after i retire and claim pension or am i not reading this correctly  thanks
 

Yes it's perfectly ok, you can claim the State Pension you're #Entitled# to no matter where you live.

Just cannot claim Winter Fuel allowance or annual upgrades if living in Thailand.

[sinbin]

Upon getting ones State Pension we have a choice as to whether we have it paid into a UK bank or an overseas bank account. Does anyone recommend on which way to go with that?

[Harveyboy]

1 hour ago, JB300 said:

 

 

Yes it's perfectly ok, you can claim the State Pension you're #Entitled# to no matter where you live.

Just cannot claim Winter Fuel allowance or annual upgrades if living in Thailand.
 

 

 

thanks for a real answer not like some of the <deleted> here who just post crap because they have nothing better to do its just for fun some people should not be let out ..again mate tks for the help

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, Harveyboy said:

thanks for a real answer not like some of the <deleted> here who just post crap because they have nothing better to do its just for fun some people should not be let out ..again mate tks for the help

 

Once again, you can claim your UK state pension in Thailand but you cannot claim cost of living increases, your post specifically mentioned "increases" and legally you are not entitled to claim them whilst living in Thailand. If you think any of that is crap, please set out which part.

[Harveyboy]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

No it's not OK. The state pension cost of living increases AND the heating allowance are intended for people who live in the UK. Pension cost of living increases can be paid overseas but only to a country that has a reciprocal social security agreement, Thailand is not one of them.

Quote

sorry i think i need to explain i dont want to claim increase or fuel or anything else except my NI pension while living here in Thailand dont want to or ever would defraud the UK system there are enough people doing that already without my help eh ..thanks

 

[Flustered]

31 minutes ago, sinbin said:

Upon getting ones State Pension we have a choice as to whether we have it paid into a UK bank or an overseas bank account. Does anyone recommend on which way to go with that?

Into the UK one.

 

Despite comments to the contrary, at present most of the big banks are happy to register you at an overseas address. I spoke with Lloyds and Halifax. Both said "no problems" to an overseas address for my accounts.

 

In the event that you come back one day, it will be  hard to set up a bank account again until you have been resident for a few months

 

 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Harveyboy said:

 

 

And in your post number 216 you wrote:

 

"hello so are you saying that if i dont maintain an address in the uk after i retire in which to claim for increase in pension and heating ect"!

[JB300]

Upon getting ones State Pension we have a choice as to whether we have it paid into a UK bank or an overseas bank account. Does anyone recommend on which way to go with that?

I have heard guys saying they get a much better exchange rate having their pension paid into a Bangkok Bank account in Thailand but will let the guys with actual experience comment.

One thing to think of is that #Technically# you're liable for Tax on any income earned overseas & remitted to Thailand in the same calendar year.

I say "Technically", as I haven't heard of anybody falling fowl of this but something to keep in mind

[Harveyboy]

On ‎27‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 0:17 PM, Get Real said:

It´s not only the taxman the brits can´t hide from. Just being a brit today is totally visible all over the world. Was just a matter of time before the taxman got up to date and follow suite. LOL

yes and apparently there are up to 10.000 illegals or more  in the UK who they cannot find  yet they are watching me getting a tan it seems ....yep scary mate very  price for being a brit

[Harveyboy]

28 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Into the UK one.

 

Despite comments to the contrary, at present most of the big banks are happy to register you at an overseas address. I spoke with Lloyds and Halifax. Both said "no problems" to an overseas address for my accounts.

 

In the event that you come back one day, it will be  hard to set up a bank account again until you have been resident for a few months

 

 

good tks

[lopburi3]

11 hours ago, JB300 said:

 

I have heard guys saying they get a much better exchange rate having their pension paid into a Bangkok Bank account in Thailand but will let the guys with actual experience comment.

One thing to think of is that #Technically# you're liable for Tax on any income earned overseas & remitted to Thailand in the same calendar year.

I say "Technically", as I haven't heard of anybody falling fowl of this but something to keep in mind

 

 

Believe that would be people who convert money into Baht outside Thailand - as long as you remit foreign currency to Thailand the exchange rate should be the same for the amount of foreign currency received.  Just remember the transfer process often takes money/percentage en route and your home country bank will try to make the exchange itself to get profit.  

[dick dasterdly]

My pension incomes (on which I pay UK tax) are paid into a Natwest Jersey account, and last year I received many pages of forms to complete from the bank (received on the day they were due to be returned...), of which some sections/photocopies needed a Notary to certify (as I'm living in Thailand).

 

I only mention the last part because it was a bit annoying to have to pay for a Certified Notary when my income is already taxed in the UK, and they know I live in Thailand.

 

Not long after, I received another form from the bank about tax residency status - a bit odd as the original forms would have made this quite clear, but emailing the bank they informed me this was entirely separate and something required by another dept......

 

It was pure coincidence that in the middle of all this apparently I was sent a 'proof of life' form from a pension provider, that I quite likely threw away assuming it was another bank form reminder - unavoidable due to the time it takes due to the postal delays.  Fortunately the pension provider sent another letter before cutting off the pension!

 

In short, my experience last year indicates that the Brit. govt. is 'cracking down' (via the banks) on anyone claiming to be a Brit. resident, whilst actually living abroad.

Edited January 30, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[i claudius]

If they are paid into a Jersey account ,I am not surprised.

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk

[rickudon]

Some people mentioned that we could theoretically be liable for income tax in Thailand. I think the problem with this is that other than income generated in Thailand, they could only really tax money remitted to Thailand - and that might be difficult to assess as i get money from a variety of sources - interbank transfers, debit cards from home, credit cards from home, changing cash. I guess they just consider us retired people to be all long stay tourists ......

[yardrunner]

45 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Some people mentioned that we could theoretically be liable for income tax in Thailand. I think the problem with this is that other than income generated in Thailand, they could only really tax money remitted to Thailand - and that might be difficult to assess as i get money from a variety of sources - interbank transfers, debit cards from home, credit cards from home, changing cash. I guess they just consider us retired people to be all long stay tourists ......

if you bring funds in to Thailand that were earned that year then they are liable for Thai tax, if the money was earned in previous years it is not liable for Thai tax.

This applies to private pensions and money earned in the UK but savings intrest and property rental income can only be taxed in the country it is earned in ie the UK, state pensions are liable to taxation in Thailand according to the UK revenue department but the Thai Revenue department considers the state pension to be a goverment pension that is only taxable in the UK, this is according to a legal officer of the Thai Revenue office who i spoke to in 2013

[rickudon]

 

Quote

if you bring funds in to Thailand that were earned that year then they are liable for Thai tax, if the money was earned in previous years it is not liable for Thai tax.

This applies to private pensions and money earned in the UK but savings intrest and property rental income can only be taxed in the country it is earned in ie the UK, state pensions are liable to taxation in Thailand according to the UK revenue department but the Thai Revenue department considers the state pension to be a goverment pension that is only taxable in the UK, this is according to a legal officer of the Thai Revenue office who i spoke to in 2013

Yes, understand what you say, but how would Thai tax authorities know the source of the funds that you bring into the country? It is just a cash transfer from a UK account, it could have been pensions,  savings interest or anything before that, And what about spending on my UK credit card? Without you giving full disclosure of ALL your banking transactions in the UK, it is impossible to tell. Hell, when i transfer funds from one account to another i don't say to myself " 50% was pension, 15% was interest on savings and 35% has been in the account for so long i cannot remember" It is just a series of digits, one pound same as any other.

 

Strikes me that the Thai IRS approach is very sensible, also i have already paid tax on it once in the UK. And if i use my credit card, and pay the bill in the UK, it never touches my thai bank account. It would be a nightmare to assess from both sides.

[chiang mai]

6 hours ago, rickudon said:

 

Yes, understand what you say, but how would Thai tax authorities know the source of the funds that you bring into the country? It is just a cash transfer from a UK account, it could have been pensions,  savings interest or anything before that, And what about spending on my UK credit card? Without you giving full disclosure of ALL your banking transactions in the UK, it is impossible to tell. Hell, when i transfer funds from one account to another i don't say to myself " 50% was pension, 15% was interest on savings and 35% has been in the account for so long i cannot remember" It is just a series of digits, one pound same as any other.

 

Strikes me that the Thai IRS approach is very sensible, also i have already paid tax on it once in the UK. And if i use my credit card, and pay the bill in the UK, it never touches my thai bank account. It would be a nightmare to assess from both sides.

The problem only really occurs where the pension is paid say monthly and remitted to Thailand every month, as you say, a periodic funds transfer presents no risk at all since the source of funds can't be proven where it's intermingled from various accounts.

[jayboy]

The problem only really occurs where the pension is paid say monthly and remitted to Thailand every month, as you say, a periodic funds transfer presents no risk at all since the source of funds can't be proven where it's intermingled from various accounts.

In practice even if the pension was remitted monthly it would only become a "problem" if the person concerned was on the radar of the Thai tax authorities.I have never heard of a farang pensioner submitting a tax return - even one with a nil return - in Thailand.


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[chiang mai]

36 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

In practice even if the pension was remitted monthly it would only become a "problem" if the person concerned was on the radar of the Thai tax authorities.I have never heard of a farang pensioner submitting a tax return - even one with a nil return - in Thailand.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

At the moment yes, that's correct, but I can see a time in the future where that may change.

 

As for a nil return: there was a poster about a month ago who wanted to do this because he wanted to prove he was tax resident here, in order to satisfy some western tax authority or similar.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

 

At the moment yes, that's correct, but I can see a time in the future where that may change.

 

As for a nil return: there was a poster about a month ago who wanted to do this because he wanted to prove he was tax resident here, in order to satisfy some western tax authority or similar.

Yes it might change though as far as I'm aware there's no immediate prospect.I noted the case you refer to and frankly couldn't understand why he was bothering.I think I posted at the time that where the situation is not clear cut, it's always good practice not to ask a question of the Thai authorities where you might get an answer not to one's liking.

[AbeSurd]

On 1/14/2017 at 2:27 PM, chiang mai said:

 

“Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year.

 

Can you please clarify?

 

As you're essentially talking about HMRC and DWP here, isn't it 180 days in any TAX year?

 

Surely they don't use the calendar year?

 

Thanks.

[chiang mai]

Just now, AbeSurd said:

Can you please clarify?

 

As you're essentially talking about HMRC and DWP here, isn't it 180 days in any TAX year?

 

Surely they don't use the calendar year?

 

Thanks.

Thailand uses the calendar year for their tax year, yes, and don't call me Shirley.