Thousands use 'fake life' scam to get into the UK

[Basil B]

Quote

Thousands of people are faking living in Ireland to get family members into the UK, a BBC investigation has revealed.

The scam involves UK nationals who want to bring in close relatives from outside the European Economic Area.

Police said immigration advisers, lawyers and accountants were behind the multi-million pound fraud.

The UK government is warning it is a growing industry that exploits European free-movement rules.

The scam uses the so-called Surinder Singh route, named after a historical immigration court case.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38597384

 

File on 4: Breaking into Britain is on BBC Radio 4, 17 January at 20:00 GMT - catch up on BBC iPlayer Radio.

I do not support people using illegal and fraudulent methods of entering the UK but I hope the program may be of interest to those interested in the "Surinder Singh route" .

[daveAustin]

Although this could be achieved legally by living in EU countries anyway prior to hitting Britain, I don't blame them. If the UK government didn't make it so hard for British nationals to bring in their spouses (all the while letting in ANYONE from the EU - out of their hands I guess), this would be a non-issue.

[dageurreotype]

And we're off. Possibly those very same posters supporting Thailand's 'good guys in bad guys out' and chastising any poster asking for advice re overstay will be here shortly to bone up on how to get their Thai 'missus' the UK illegally also. The UK still has a huge problem with it's generous All Welcome immigration policy as it is. If 'your wife' failed to be granted a UK visa, there must be a very good reason why.

[theoldgit]

We'll let this thread run for now, but keep in mind this forum is for those who seek and offer advice on how to address immigration issue, so let's keep this thread on the story that's been posted.

 

I will say one thin though, the UK Government don't actually make it that difficult for a UK national to take their spouse to the UK, they do set certain conditions, rightly or wrongly, but if those conditions are met a visa is normally issued.

[Eff1n2ret]

56 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

 

I will say one thin though, the UK Government don't actually make it that difficult for a UK national to take their spouse to the UK, they do set certain conditions, rightly or wrongly, but if those conditions are met a visa is normally issued.

I haven't looked at the Instructions to ECOs or Caseworkers for a good while now, and can't be bothered any more, but it certainly used to say that it was not relevant if the sole purpose of establishing residence in an EU country was to qualify for an EEA Family Permit - it had to be issued.

[bobrussell]

There was a thread on this some time back. A package including housing and 'work' are put together in Ireland to take advantage of "Surinder Singh".

If the Home Office has sufficient evidence that their definition of living in another EU country is not being met then they can refuse entry especially if fraud has taken place.

As with any behaviour at the fringes of legality people will try to work around the rules.

Fraud can result in a long ban!

[mgb]

Paying 25,000 pounds for a scam and are not able to fulfill the minimum income sounds not so likely.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, mgb said:

Paying 25,000 pounds for a scam and are not able to fulfill the minimum income sounds not so likely.

 

Not the same thing. A one-off payment of £25,000 that creates a whole auditable but ultimately false and illegal EU 'life' that allows you to come and look for work (while claiming benefits) versus the requirement to already have a UK job or job offer with sufficient income and be able to maintain the annual minimum £18,600 minimum income with no immediate recourse to benefits.

 

Good listening, thanks to the OP for the link.

[mgb]

Where should the money come from? I guess if you are on the dole you have no 25,000 pounds spare money.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, mgb said:

Where should the money come from? I guess if you are on the dole you have no 25,000 pounds spare money.

 

We are talking about foreigners who are not in the UK yet. How can they be on the bloody dole?

 

Think harder... like outside the box.

[Donutz]

Thousands of Britons not actually moving to an other EU/ EEA state at all but creating a fake profile (with plenty of real but fraudulent evidence)?

 

I have my doubts. People who do this are most likely a small percentage of those who use the SS/EU route. Afterall it's expensive, risky as being caught would create even bigger problems that take you further away from your goal of being with your non EU direct family members. Those who do the route often do so because they have trouble meeting the requirements on income (they may not be an actual burden to the state and may be able to provide for their family but simply fail to meet the income requirement that no longer looks at the financial situation on a case by case basis!). 

 

So that it are relatively well off people makes sense. A poor chap with low income would have trouble getting money to pay for these fake SS route services. 

 

But the number of thousands? Let's say a few percent of all SS applicants take this route, which would meand many ten of thousands or hundred of thousands of people take the SS route. This route itself is only used by a small selection of all those who wish to get a foreign partner to immigrste. I would have to look up the report but memory says it was 2 to 4 % of all partner immigrations in the Netherlands. So this means hundreds upon hundredthousands of Britons apply for partner/family immigration? Must be quite popular amongst Britons to have non EU partners!!! Quick calculation with a rather generous percentages: say 5000 fraudsters like this, makes 100.000 SS applicants, makes 7.500.000 regular spouse applicants by Britons... Errr...

 

Anyone got the actual number of spouse immigration visas? I know 7by7 posten some links here and there. 

 

 

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

We are talking about foreigners who are not in the UK yet. How can they be on the bloody dole?-mgb

 

Think harder... like outside the box.

The article is on Britons who not only do the SS route (perfectly legal) to bring their non EU partner in but who commit fraud to do so.

 

But even if it was on EU nationals with a foreign spouse (who would not need to genuinly or fake moving to Ireland as under freedom of movement their spouse could join them in the UK right away) they could not claim benefits right away. They would need to be employed or a student or such, if job seeking they'd need to satisfy the authorities that they have a good chanche of finding work and will not become a burden on the state. Besides they could not claim benefits right away. But this is an entirely different topic best discussed say here:

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/962752-more-britons-want-greater-control-of-immigration-than-eu-free-trade-poll/

[Donutz]

Just a quick search for UK immigration statistics:

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics

 

From 2000 and onward I see the total number of non-EU immigrants to be between 370 and 258 thousand. Say roughly 300 Thousand annually very roughly speakling. This would include all immigration ranging from Britons with a foreing spouse to EU/EEA nationals with a foreign spouse, asylum seekers, students, skilled workers etc. etc.

 

Quite a few less then the very rough calculation from my previous post. And SS applications by returning British would only be a small number of this, of which an even smaller number would have commited fraud, of which only a part wuld not actually have left the UK at all. Or so I'd expect, but let's do quickly search for how many SS applications where made in the last few years

In 2011: 275  SS applications

In 2012: 200 SS applications

In 2012: 165 SS applications

 

Source:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/surinder_singh_statistics#incoming-486379

 

So say 200 a year, or 16years*200= 3200 SS applications since the start of this century. How many of those would be fraudelent? If we would believe the headline of ' thousands fake life scam to get into the UK'  it would be all of them!

 

Bow this is a very quick, lazy, look at this topic. I'd expect journalist or others who are genuinly interested in the facts to spent a bit more time on this subject but even this 5 minute search should raise serious doubts regarding the claims of thousands of people commiting the type of fraud mentioned here. 

 

Now do give a definitve conclusion I'd need to spent a bit more time into these numbers but it just doesn't seem to add up. This type of journalism I'd more expect to see from say the Sun.... 

 

 

[7by7]

5 hours ago, Donutz said:

Anyone got the actual number of spouse immigration visas? I know 7by7 posten some links here and there. 

 

These figures are not as easy to find as they used to be!

 

You can access the data via this page; but for some reason the figures only go up to 2014.

 

Note, though, that the figures under "5. Settlement" are for ILR, not the initial visa. You will find these figures in the spreadsheet under "se 04 Grants of settlement to spouses on the basis of marriage;" which includes civil partners and unmarried partners. In 2014 there were 28,230 of these.

 

Figures for the initial visa are in "3. Admissions" under "ad 02 Passengers given leave to enter the United Kingdom by purpose of journey, excluding EEA and Swiss nationals" starting on line 49 of the spreadsheet. In 2014:-

• Spouse or fiance: 15,900
• Civil and unmarried partners and proposed civil partners; 1,760.

The summary page gives a broad outline of the figures for the year ending March 2016.

Quote

There were 38,274 family-related visas granted in the year ending March 2016.

 That figure includes all family related visas, not just spouses and partners.

 

I cannot find any official figures for the number of EEA family permits issued, which would, if they exist, include British nationals and their non EEA national partners who have used the Surinder Singh route.

 

The closest I can find comes from this Migration Watch report

Quote

6. In 2012 there were over 20,000 EEA family permits issued to non-EU citizens to accompany or to join EU citizens living in the UK. The total over the past five years has been almost 100,000.

They say that they sourced that figure from the Home Office, but the figures do not differentiate between British citizens using the Surinder Singh route and others.

 

Edit: I see Donutz found some figures while I was typing this!

Edited January 20, 2017 by 7by7

[7by7]

From the BBC article in the OP

Quote

Each year, about 20,000 non-European family members come into the UK this way.

which, unless they mean the total number of EEA family permits issued and not just those using this scam,  simply does not add up!

 

The figures I obtained from Migration Watch (who are not immigration friendly!) say that around 20,000 EEA family permits in total are issued each year.

 

Also from the report

Quote

Det Supt Stephen Courage, from the Garda National Immigration Bureau, said fraudsters were charging up to £25,000 for the scam.

If someone can afford that then they can certainly afford the, although exorbitant IMHO, much cheaper UK visa and LTR fees.

 

It is probable that they can also meet the financial requirement through a combination of income and savings.

 

Final quote from the report

Quote

Det Supt Courage said police were examining cases from the past three years and had already identified 600 where they believed someone had obtained EU treaty rights illegally.

600 in three years is hardly thousands!

 

Also, from the figures obtained by Donutz, if 600 over three years is correct it would mean every single Surinder Singh applicant used this scam.

 

I would not be surprised by such sensationalist, inaccurate reporting from a paper such as The Sun or Daily Mail; but the BBC should know better. Shame on them.

Edited January 20, 2017 by 7by7

[mgb]

14 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

We are talking about foreigners who are not in the UK yet. How can they be on the bloody dole?

 

Think harder... like outside the box.

Do you understand what the Surinder Singh route is?
A Briton would have to fake his life in Ireland if he want to go the 25,000 pound path and pour his money down the drain.
 

[Donutz]

Indeed 7by7, I too wonder how the BBC came to these conclusions. It seems like they asked one civil servant to give an estimate of some kind and then just went by that rather than digging into these numbers a bit more. Thanks for the links.

 

I searched a bit further and all I can find is a FOI request from 2015 on SS statistics ("How many family permits (based on Surinder Singh) are issued between Jan 2014 and April 2014"), but I cannot open the type of attachment provided.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/surinder_singh_eea_family_permit

 

I also found an other request covering June 2013 up to September 2014 but that seems to be all EEA permission divided on legal grounds such as 'Chen ruling': https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/applications-for-residence-cards-under-the-surinder-singh-directive

 

These numbers are 'in the (few) thousands but cover more than SS applications by Britons. But once again even if all applications were by Britons it would mean pretty much every applicant committed fraud and a rather specific type of fraud: not only forging one or two documents to say give the impression one resides longer abroad than was actual the case but people who did not leave the UK at all and faked the whole SS route from A till Z. 

 

Now just maybe the BBC has inside information of more recent statistics, say covering 2015 or 2016 and that in those years there has been an absolute massive increase of SS applications and fraud going up with one thousand percent... Could be but rather unlikely I'd think.

 

I am willing to assume both SS applications and fraud has increased since 2010-2012 (I'd still wish to see some hard numbers though before making final/hard conclusions) but for what the BBC is reporting here these numbers must have went through the roof and beyond the Milky Way. Surely people at the Home Office or UKVI would have gone public if that were the case.

 

My guess would be bad journalism , interviewing one official, perhaps somebody not directly involved such as border guard, police officer or mayor of some town plus being massively confused and ill i formee on the various terms, permits and general immigration statistics. But that's only my best guess unless somebody can dig up information that tells a bit more about this report.

[7by7]

16 hours ago, Donutz said:

I searched a bit further and all I can find is a FOI request from 2015 on SS statistics ("How many family permits (based on Surinder Singh) are issued between Jan 2014 and April 2014"), but I cannot open the type of attachment provided.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/surinder_singh_eea_family_permit

 

I can open it:-

Visa issued stats for EEA Family Permits category (based on Surinder Singh)
Month	Issued
Jan-14	20
Feb-14	15
Mar-14	25
Apr-14	25
Grand Total	80

 

N.B. the figures for each month are rounded up to the nearest 5, which is why they come to 85, not 80. They also cover applications from all EEA member states, not just the RoI.

 

But let's take the higher figure. If this is an average quarter, then 85 per quarter equals 340 in a year.

 

I appreciate that the number of applications may very well have increased as people who are perfectly capable of supporting themselves and their partner but do not meet one or more of the ridiculous conditions of the financial requirement do use the SS route to get around those requirements.

 

But would they have increased to such an extent that out of all the SS applications from all EEA states in the last three years 600 were fraudulent ones from the RoI? Simply doesn't add up. 

 

[Donutz]

Thanks. So up until early 2014 there certainly have not been thousands of applications (annually) let alone cases with the fraudulent scenario described. The claims in the article therefor seem absurd and not fit with the statistics that we know. I try to keep and open mind on things including criticism and down sides regarding immigration, freedom of movement, SS, the EU etc. But in regards to this article I see no option but to dismiss it as nonsense.

 

It of course goes without saying that I do not advocate fraud of any kind. My main care is that loved ones can be together for short term (holiday) or long term (immigration) as long as they are not a serious burden to anyone (society that is). And I care about reporting proper statistics and not any kind of fear mongering or other such silly things. Too bad that the BBC failed it's journalistic duty here. 

[elliss]

On 1/20/2017 at 1:31 AM, mgb said:

Paying 25,000 pounds for a scam and are not able to fulfill the minimum income sounds not so likely.

 

 It is  called ,  a long term investment , too  a Country where  the  streets are paved with Gold / benefits .

        My sympathy , is for  the people  who actually  pay  the  scammers.

Edited January 21, 2017 by elliss

[mgb]

The Britons who could afford it don't need it and the Britons who could need it cannot afford it.

[Donutz]

I'm listening to the radio report now.  The important bit is towards the very end, which I emphasized in bold text. Please forgive any spelling mistakes, I typed this out while listening and it's a bit lenghty so I have not reread and checked what I wrote for proper spelling.

 

-----------------

In the first 5 minutes they talk to a couple who have trouble meeting the visa/immigration demands, the woman they interview brings across the point all too familiar with this topic: the income requirement being rather high if you live in a cheaper part of the country,  that it doesn't make sense and isn't fair that the UK (no longer) simply checks the UK national simply can take care of his/her (foreign) family on their own.

 

After these 5 minutes the programmme goes and meet with solicitors to ask about what options are available if one does not meet the income requirements. Getting a solicitors on tape that offers illegal means such as faking a second job to bump up income with fake payslips/eployment.

 

It then continues on (about 13 minutes in) that if doen right it is very hard for the home office to detect such fraud.

 

After 15 minutes it goes on about how May is trying to cut immigration numbers but has few areas keft in which it can do so.

 

After 16 minutes minutes in and ringing various to see if they can find any other solictors to aid in committing fraud, theysay that most of them give correct information on legal options on how to get a spouse visa. One did took the bait and said there were indeed illegal options available. Once again it's about faking income. 

 

After 19 minutes the programme makers confront him and he denies advicing clients this route that circumvent the law. 

 

Then they interview a person from Immigration watch who says that people simply need to meet the income treshhold and why the minimum income treshhold is set at what it is now (risk of using public funds). At 20 minutes in he goes on how other EU countries, not specfying which ones, are applying far more strict rules than the UK does. He then goes on about how the authorities should enforce the law and stop the law breakers who fake their income.

 

We are now 21 minutes in and finally they start about SS:

BBC: "If you don't want the short cut (Illegal) solution to the spouse visa problem, there is a legal, long way around the minimum income rule: you can move your partner here under European rather than UK law. Meaning the governments income requirment does not apply.But our whistle blower says that there is a whole other industry around faking this European right too. Doing it legally is called the Surinder Sighn route. It sounds a bit obscure but it is named after the first person to make this detour around domestic law. "

 

Dr: ""Hello I'm Doctor Helena Ray, I'm an associate Proffesor in Migration Law at the university of Exeter.  Surinder Sighn is the name of a case that was decided in 1992 by the court of justice. And it involved a wife, who was a British citizen, who had an Indian husband. And under the rules in place at that time she was unable to have her husband live with herin the UK. So she went to Germany and she worked, I believe, as a self employed person infact. And therefor under the EU laws she was able to bring her husband to live with her in Germany. After that period she return to the UK and the question was wether she was able to bring her husband back with her to the UK. What the court of justice said was that in order to make the right of freedom of movement fully effective, and EU citizen who goes to a member state must know that if they return from that state to their state of origin, that they are able to also bring their family member with them. Otherwise that would be a disincentive for them."

 

BBC: "Is the government okay with the surinder sighn route or are they trying to make it more difficult?"

 

"From their point of view surinder sighn represents a loophole. Now that should be in inverted commas. It is NOT a loophole. It is a right that excists in EU law and that UK citizens are perfectly entitled to excersize. In 2012 the goverment implemented the minimum income requirement for those who want to sponsor spouse partners comming from outside the EU. And for that reason people have started to increasingly look at alternative ways to be able to live, as they see it, in their own country with their family members as they are entitled to do."

 

BBC: "So the popularity and the explosion in populairity of the surinder sighn route is directly connected to that moment in 2012, when the goverment raised the income bar?"

 

Dr: "I have seen a lot more discussion of surinder sighn. A huge increase in it's currency for example amongst social media like facebook and so since 2012. So yes, I'd imagen that there is a connection. From the governments point of view, with their concern to reduce migration, the surinder sighn route represents a way in which their immigration policy can be undermined quite significantly. "

 

BBC: "The goverment does not like to advertise the surinder sighn route but it's popularity has grown. And now that Brexit means our EU rights won't last forever there is an insentive to use them or lose them. "

 

Female: "Oh Hi, (blablabla background chatter)"

 

BBC: "I'm in London to talk to Lauren, who took the surinder sighn route through Spain."

 

This young woman Lauren talks about her experience and motivation regarding immigration to Spain and back to the UK. The interviewer then asks how she experienced it all practically and the woman answers that it was more difficult than she had expected as they needed a load of documentation to show that their centre of life was indeed in Spain. It was not a quick hop over to Spain and back again as they first assumed.

 

Now 27:26 minutes in:

BBC:  So surinder sighn is a lot harder and more complicated than a quick flip to Europe and back. Before the Home Office will treat your family as EU citizens they will want solid proof you have lived as an European.  Files and files of documents and evidence Lauren says. There is no cutting corners. Or is there?"

 

"Remember our whistly blower who said that solicitors were creating bogus documents for people who's partners could get in to the UK? She says they are faking surinder sighn too. Making up entire lifes. In one European country in particular"

 

Other female voice:  "Well it's a scam taking place in Ireland, so if the spouse of a UK citizen is denied a visa for whatever reason, maybe the UK spouse does not earn enough, there is solicitors who will set up a fake life the UK citizen in Ireland so they can use the surinder sighn route. Solicitors are setting up fake jobs, renting a place, calls to and from an Irish number as if some one is really living there. I know all this because some one I know is doing it.  I can count on one hand how many times they have been to Ireland, just for day trips. You can even see on their facebook that they live and work in the UK. "

 

BBC asks how much they are paying for this, the woman says 4.5 thousand pounds and a no win no fee basis. It goes on a bit more about this fraud and how it works.  

 

Finally we are getting to the bit about fraus, SS and Ireland:

"Because Ireland isn't very far and doens't require learning a new language, Ireland has become the go to destination. In 2013 just over 600 people applied for EU treaty rights, last year 10 thousand people did! An increase of 1500 percent. Crippling the Irish immigration service. "

 

"But are some solicitors selling a life in Ireland that does not actually have to be lived? Irish police have mounting evidence. I arranged to talk to (Irish) detective superintendent Stephen Courage, from the Garda National Immigration Bureau. And he said our whistle blower is right, people are faking living in as a means of getting family a UK visa. 

 

Courage goes on to explain how people from quite often Pakistan and Bangladesh , and often for a fee up to 25 thousand sterling will set up a fake life via an facilitator. He goes on explaining how they set up a bank account here in Ireland and such.

 

BBC: How many people do you think could  have led these fake lifes?

 

Courage:  "We are looking at uhm,  a significant number, running into the thousands. And we are going back historically now into people who already got EU residency rights and we are looking out to revoke those. We have 600 reports, going up there, were people have, we feel, have obtained these rights illegally. "  He then goes on how this is a complex scam often involving people with high skilled proffesional jobs, and that this sort of criminal activity is a multi million enterprise.

 

BBC: "This is  the first time that the scale of this type of fraud has been revealed, thousands of people have been living fake lifes in Ireland as a means to their partners into the UK. And it has worked."  The BCC then continues on to discuss this fraudelent approach and how massive it all is and that the goverment admits that faking surinder sighn is a growing industry but that anyone caught will ben banned from the UK for 10 years. They then talk once again with somebody from Migration Watch on this fraudelent practises. The BBC then concludes that the stricter the  rules, the greater the oppertunity for fraud. 

 

--------

So it seems that the one Irish officer is talking about thousands of Europeans faking life in Ireland, based on having abount 600 reports of suspected fraud right now and looking back at the past. This estimated number would thus include all Europeans, not just UK nationals, suspected b the Irish authorities of commiting such fraud. Personally I would not accept one single reports by a single official as being suffucient evidence. You'd wish to look at some reports or check with one or two other objective sources to get a better idea of the scale. But the BBC turns this into 'thousands of Britons'  and how the SS route and fraud have sky rocketed in recent years due to tougher immigration rules an Brexit. 

 

Let's look at some statistics from Irish authorities to see if there has been a huge increase by UK (and EU) nationals immigrating to Ireland. If indeed there has been a huge increase of over a thousand percent, then even with a steady number of fraud cases the overal number of fraudelent cases will also have gone up. 

 

Immigration by EU nationals to Ireland in thousands(UK nationals, the old 15 members + 13 newest EU members):

2011:  4,1 UK. Rest of EU:  7,1 + 10,1 

2012: 2,2 UK. Rest of EU: 7,2 + 10,4

2013: 4,9 UK. Rest of EU: 7,4 + 10,9

2014: 4,9 UK. Rest of EU: 8,7 +  10,0

2015: 5,0 UK. Rest of EU: 8,9 + 12,8

2016: 4,5 UK. Rest of EU: 10,0 + 12,0

 

Source, table 2 of this page: 

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2016/

 

Hmm so 600 cases (nation wide?) on thousands of EU immigrants (say 25 thousand last  year, of which 4,5 thousand) and the BBC makes it sound like thousands of Britons are faking SS? At the very least the BBC could have asked the Irish inspector to clarify if he meant nation wide and what time period we are talking about if looking back historally. You would wish to make sure that this isn't a very rough calculation and then draw wrong conclusions.  Hell, they could even have asked him "so thousans of Britons are suspected of faking life in Ireland in the last few (2-3?)  years?". Seeing how there have been on avarage 4,5 to 5 thousand Britons who migrated to Ireland it seems rather unlikey that 'thousands'  (which would be a a vast majority if not all UK nationals) have faked a life in Ireland to apply for residency in the UK under SS!

 

It looks that in the written repport these 600 are over the last three years, and that would be not just UK but all EU nationals suspected of fraud. But none off that becomes evident from just the radio report or written report alone.
 

I'm now convinced that the reporter was a bit too eager to base these numbers on just one source, mixing up terms and categories (UK nationals vs all EU nationals) and not having the slightest clue of how many UK nationals have immigrated and emigrated between the UK and Ireland. The numbers don't add up and any self respecting reporter or editor could, would and should have seen the errors a mile away. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2017 by Donutz

[Donutz]

31 minutes ago, mgb said:

The Britons who could afford it don't need it and the Britons who could need it cannot afford it.

If the radio report is anything to go by (lot's of hear say though and single sources even though a journalist is thaught that if youhave only a single source it is no source at all) it's for people who cannot meet the income requirement of 18 thousand GBP and who will use fake employement (no estimated number given here) and fake SS (thousands they say, but that number does not add up!). I'm sure there are people and solicitors who commit such fraud but I cannot see how these numbers would be significant (in the thousands). But I guess Sun like reports draws in audience...  Those who are indeed poor and don't have a penny in their bank account won't be able to commit this fraud  and the people who have a few thousand to spare but not an income of 18 thousand GBP surely will as a majority either not bother with SS , some will try SS but how many people are willing to commit fraud, crimina activity with rather dire consequences if caught? Sensationalism I say.

 

Shame on the BBC for such a piss poor performance. I'd have expected a bit better of them, an hour or so of more work, even 15 minutes of googling, could have prevented such poor journalism from being published. Assuming they had good intentionts it should not have been too much to ask for them to have checked with a few more sources such as Irish and UK immigration statistics and a call to some more folks at Irish and UK immigration. 

[Donutz]

A  somewhat related topic that may also give a bit more of a persective on the topic at hand:

 

While googling I found an article from november 2015 in the Irish Mirror. Juding from the logo Mirror is the Irish brother or sister of the British Sun but as I'm willing to keep an open mind I can use a tabloid like 'newsreport'  as a starting point to atleast be aware of a certain topic being raised:

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/revealed-inside-murky-world-irelands-6900715

 

Quote

(...)

Men desperate to become EU citizens are handing over up to €20,000 to shady criminals to sort out a bride and a back story in an attempt to fool registrars across the country.

Gardai believe most of these men are coming from India, Bangladesh and Mauritius.

Their fake brides come from Portugal as well as countries within Eastern Europe.

Officers also suspect that 1,000 sham marriages have taken place since August last year, worth a staggering €20 million to foreign criminal gangs. (...) 

Detective Superintendent Stephen Courage of the Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB) described how many of the women are tricked into entering these sham marriages.  (...)

“The first would to be to acquire a PPS number, the second would to be to attend an interview with a registrar before the ceremony and then the final time would be for the wedding itself.

“Finally, she would come in to fill out the forms for her husband to obtain EU treaty rights.

“A lot of the girls who are recruited to do this come for low socio-economic backgrounds. They would be quite vulnerable" (....)

 

Now ofcourse fraud is a crime and fraulent activity regarding immigration cannot be tolerated either. But it seems to me that Irish authorities have a benefit in making the public aware of such scams. The government can show that is aware and has detected a problem, cracking down on immigration and that the claims that illegal immigrants or failed asylum seekers are not being ignored. And as a civil servant it ofcourse means that funds will remain available or even be increased for your department which is of course not a bad thing, certainly not if goverment spending might be under scrutiny.  So I can imagen that Stephen Courage (GNIB) did mind at all to also share a very much related story to an eager BBC report. A report who then butched the statistics/numbers though that seems mostly the fault of the reporter. 

Edited January 21, 2017 by Donutz

[NanLaew]

On 1/21/2017 at 0:51 AM, mgb said:

Do you understand what the Surinder Singh route is?
 

Yes. Do you?

 

Quote

A Briton would have to fake his life in Ireland if he want to go the 25,000 pound path and pour his money down the drain.

 

I am talking about non-Brits getting a leg-up on the UK Immigration laws which is what the BBC article in the OP embraces. You are talking about Len from Dorking who retired to Ubon over 6 years ago but suddenly can't qualify for a marriage extension any more so when he wants to take the once beguiling Noi back home with him, he finds he (still) hasn't a pot to piss in.

[Donutz]

I am talking about non-Brits getting a leg-up on the UK Immigration laws which is what the BBC article in the OP embraces

 

You must be reading a different article from  an other OP. The first post of this article links to both a BBC article and BBC radio show on Britons committing fraud to get their non EU family to join them in the UK:

 

------ OP ----

 

Thousands of people are faking living in Ireland to get family members into the UK, a BBC investigation has revealed.

The scam involves UK nationals who want to bring in close relatives from outside the European Economic Area.

------ end of OP ------

Edited January 22, 2017 by Donutz

[7by7]

16 hours ago, Donutz said:

"Because Ireland isn't very far and doens't require learning a new language, Ireland has become the go to destination. In 2013 just over 600 people applied for EU treaty rights, last year 10 thousand people did! An increase of 1500 percent. Crippling the Irish immigration service. "

 

From the official figures you obtained and quote later in your post, this simply isn't true!

16 hours ago, Donutz said:

2013: 4,9 UK. Rest of EU: 7,4 + 10,9

Total 23,200; 4,900 from the UK.

16 hours ago, Donutz said:

2016: 4,5 UK. Rest of EU: 10,0 + 12,0

Total 26,500; 4,500 from UK.

 

So while the total number applying for Irish residence using EU treaty rights was higher in 2016 than 2013, the increase is 14.2%, not the 1500% claimed in the report!

 

Also the number of applications by British citizens has fallen.

 

Of course, it is only British citizens who would be living in Ireland with their non EEA national partners so that they can later use SS to move to the UK. All other EEA nationals have the right to move directly to the UK and bring their non EEA national family members with them.

 

Therefore, the number of non British EEA nationals exercising a treaty right in the RoI is completely irrelevant.

[stevenl]

Thanks to both 7by7 and Donutz for putting this report in perspective.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[mgb]

19 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I am talking about non-Brits getting a leg-up on the UK Immigration laws which is what the BBC article in the OP embraces. You are talking about Len from Dorking who retired to Ubon over 6 years ago but suddenly can't qualify for a marriage extension any more so when he wants to take the once beguiling Noi back home with him, he finds he (still) hasn't a pot to piss in.

The story about Len is exactly the theme.
If he want to fake a life in Ireland and get his Mia Noi into the UK via this scam route he has to find 25,000 pound first.

The surinder singh route is not working without a corresponding Briton. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by mgb

[Ace of Pop]

Must be financially desperate to want to go back to Europe.Id want paying to go back.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Ace of Pop said:

Must be financially desperate to want to go back to Europe....


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Most Brits in Thailand are desperate since the Brexit vote.