Transport office exonerates Phuket visa-run service in fatal crash

[F4UCorsair]

I know of a case in Australia where a bus service wan't licensed, couldn't be licensed, and operated as a fruit retailer.  They sold apples, and threw in a 3 hour bus trip, at no cost.  Expensive apple, but cheap transport!

 

There was nothing the authorities could do, and not much different from the visa run 'service'.

 

There may be a separate issue regarding fault.  

 

Was the visa service van driver at fault?  I don't know the circumstances.

Edited January 22, 2017 by F4UCorsair
addition

[nakhonandy]

That's not a loophole it's bs!

 

Guess the owners have money.

[klauskunkel]

15 hours ago, rooster59 said:

“After the accident, we went to investigate. The sign in front of the (KBV) office didn’t say that they have a transportation service for visa runs, it says ‘visa renewing service’, which perhaps means arranging documents,” PLTO Chief Sommai told The Phuket News.

“It doesn’t say obviously that the service is for ‘transporting people to go for visa run business’, so we cannot accuse them of that,”

If you had actually investigated by stepping thru the office door and asking a question, you would have found out that the service is inclusive, meaning it consists of "transporting people to go for visa run business" and "arranging documents" which one pays for with one fee.

But you just want to justify your KBV relationship with semantics.

[fstarbkk]

The statement and the position taken by the PLTO in this case is, in my opinion, highly disingenuous at best. If the fee paid by the customers  explicitly includes transportation to and from the border and represents a substantial potion of the services rendered, then the authorities have sufficient grounds to take the matter to court. 

 

This seems to me a case of officials using their "discretionary judgement" in a way that is not in the best interest of the public.

 

The question then becomes: What defines their duties as public servants, or dereliction thereof?

[Stargeezr]

Oh so a different wording changes things, Rubbish!  I say.

  Pathetic  is what that excuse is.

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, fstarbkk said:

... The question then becomes: What defines their duties as public servants, or dereliction thereof?

 

The contents of the brown envelope?

[F4UCorsair]

39 minutes ago, jobwolf said:

When I read this I am convinced if my instinct to leave is right. Just a few more unfinished things to do!!

 

One of those things Is NOT to use a visa renewal service for which you are transported In a van without the appropriate plates??

[saminoz]

2 hours ago, jimstar1 said:

What a Croc of shit I do not believe this Same in Chiang mai there are tons of them running around with Blue Plates like Crazy Bastards none have the correct Reg they are all carrying Passengers for Money

But as long as they keep handing over the Brown envelopes nothing will be done Come on P M open your Bloody eyes

Come on PM, do you <deleted> job!

[saminoz]

20 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

I know of a case in Australia where a bus service wan't licensed, couldn't be licensed, and operated as a fruit retailer.  They sold apples, and threw in a 3 hour bus trip, at no cost.  Expensive apple, but cheap transport!

 

There was nothing the authorities could do, and not much different from the visa run 'service'.

 

There may be a separate issue regarding fault.  

 

Was the visa service van driver at fault?  I don't know the circumstances.

regardless of fault, the fact that they WERE  transporting people for money makes them responsible.

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, saminoz said:

Come on PM, do you <deleted> job!

 

The PM initially said that all minivans would be history within 6 months.... but once the special interest groups bent his ear, that has been modified to having GPS installed in each one. Since when has GPS made road transport safer? When it was first widely deployed in the UK, it was responsible for more foreign truckers getting their 18-wheelers stuck in narrow village lanes or parked in rivers.

 

Install tachographs in each minivan and register every minivan and every driver driver. Use the existing network of truck weighbridges to pull in minivans to get their driver log books and van tachographs checked.

[F4UCorsair]

27 minutes ago, saminoz said:

regardless of inault, the fact that inhey WECstfE  transporting people for money makes them responsible.

 

In YOUR opinion., and I'll say something I don't often say.......you are wrong, In this case.

 

If a truck crossed the centre line and hit them head on, the van company Is CLEARLY NOT RESPONSIBLE for the deaths and Injuries.  Carrying people for reward Is not relevant In causing the crash.

 

They may be guilty of operating a van outside the conditions of their licence, but the authority has said It's unclear that they were, meaning a conviction Is probably not likely.

 

Guilty of harming people Is an entirely different matter, and fault must be proved on that charge If It Is brought.

 

I have a lawyer partner, and we often talk about cases.  

 

How the law sees circumstances Is quite often very different from the layman's view/opinion.

 

The onus to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' falls on the prosecution, and the tiniest technicality  can see the accused walk free.

 

Edited January 22, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[lungnorm]

They say the Law is an Ass, in Thailand it seems the one who interprets the Law is the Ass.

[little mary sunshine]

Never , Ever Use Them!!

[fstarbkk]

8 minutes ago, lungnorm said:

They say the Law is an Ass, in Thailand it seems the one who interprets the Law is the Ass.

 

Maybe so. But, in some instances, an "unusually wealthy" ass. 

[Destiny1990]

Nice scam.

great to know that all planned new safety regulations will not include for foreigners doing their mini van border runs.They do not even have an insurance?appearantly those mini vans  only transport documents????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

One of the most amazing, outlandish, disgusting expressions of total B.S. I've ever heard issued by a government official here.

 

And to reach that lofty peak, requires a lot of verbal climbing.

[F4UCorsair]

18 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

Never , Ever Use Them!!

 

I'm with you lms.  I have done In the distant past, but never again.

[F4UCorsair]

Can anybody point me to the original thread, presuming there is one, because I'm Interested in the circumstances of the crash, particularly whose fault it may have been??

[stevenl]

38 minutes ago, saminoz said:

regardless of fault, the fact that they WERE  transporting people for money makes them responsible.

Which is a different issue from the registration.

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

Can anybody point me to the original thread, presuming there is one, because I'm Interested in the circumstances of the crash, particularly whose fault it may have been??

Just search Phuket Forum. Was easy case though, too fast driving in the rain.

[Chicog]

7 hours ago, edwinchester said:

OP roughly translates to 'to be honest we don't give a shit'.

 

Or translates to "We've been paid to not give a shit".

[oldgent]

make them take all the seats out.I hate brown envelopes its usually

a bill of some kind

[oldsailor35]

2 hours ago, Lupatria said:

I wonder how many family members in the "Service Provider's" family are cops.

Wake up Mr Prayuth. They are making a fool of you big time.

[oldsailor35]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

 

The PM initially said that all minivans would be history within 6 months.... but once the special interest groups bent his ear, that has been modified to having GPS installed in each one. Since when has GPS made road transport safer? When it was first widely deployed in the UK, it was responsible for more foreign truckers getting their 18-wheelers stuck in narrow village lanes or parked in rivers.

 

Install tachographs in each minivan and register every minivan and every driver driver. Use the existing network of truck weighbridges to pull in minivans to get their driver log books and van tachographs checked.

Sorry too hard for Somchai to do this.

[oldsailor35]

1 hour ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

In YOUR opinion., and I'll say something I don't often say.......you are wrong, In this case.

 

If a truck crossed the centre line and hit them head on, the van company Is CLEARLY NOT RESPONSIBLE for the deaths and Injuries.  Carrying people for reward Is not relevant In causing the crash.

 

They may be guilty of operating a van outside the conditions of their licence, but the authority has said It's unclear that they were, meaning a conviction Is probably not likely.

 

Guilty of harming people Is an entirely different matter, and fault must be proved on that charge If It Is brought.

 

I have a lawyer partner, and we often talk about cases.  

 

How the law sees circumstances Is quite often very different from the layman's view/opinion.

 

The onus to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' falls on the prosecution, and the tiniest technicality  can see the accused walk free.

 

That did'nt work for the Koh Tao kids , did it !

[F4UCorsair]

4 minutes ago, oldsailor35 said:

That did'nt work for the Koh Tao kids , did it !

 

Off topic, and I don't know.

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

 

The onus to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' falls on the prosecution, and the tiniest technicality  can see the accused walk free.

 

um.... lol... are you forgetting this is Thailand?

 

defense lawyer : please produce the evidence

police: sorry, we lost it 

judge: police say they had it... police never lie.... defendant must die.

[darren84310]

What amazes me is that foreigners are still using these services...... Regardless of your circumstances, find another way.

[F4UCorsair]

I don't believe that penalties for driving offences are even part of this discussion.  He has been fined, and the charges will be heard before a court, where the penalties may be increased.  On another thread.........

 

 

He confessed to the charge of reckless driving causing death and was fined B150,000,” Col Suwat said.

 

“However, we are holding onto his driver’s licence until this is all over. Police are continuing their investigation and the court has yet to hear the charge against him – and the court may yet hand down a harsher penalty than just the fine, he added.

 

 

This thread, and it appears some haven't noticed, is about whether the transport department can proceed against him for not having the appropriate licence plates, and there are those babbling on about him being charged for driving offences, because he is guilty????  HE HAS BEEN CHARGED, CONFESSED, AND PAID A FINE OF B150,000.  The charges will now go before a court, and the penalty may be increased.

 

I think the penalty so far is a little light too, but the court may increase it.  I've seen people convicted in Australia on similar charges, admittedly not three deaths, and receive bonds and community service orders, so a US$5000 penalty for a Thai, on a driver's income' is severe.

 

Get with the program folks, address the thread title, which is why the Transport Department can't proceed on lesser charges than what he's already faced.  

 

Forget the idea of the lack of the appropriate licence having anything to do with causing the crash.  It didn't.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[farcanell]

16 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

 

This thread, and it appears some haven't noticed, is about whether the transport department can proceed against him for not having the appropriate licence plates, and there are those babbling on about him being charged for driving offences, because he is guilty????  HE HAS BEEN CHARGED, CONFESSED, AND PAID A FINE OF B150,000.  The charges will now go before a court, and the penalty may be increased.

 

Get with the program folks, address the thread title, which is why the Transport Department can't proceed on lesser charges than what he's already faced.  

 

 

 

 

And here was me thinking it was about a licensing loophole exempting private vehicles from adhering to the new requirements for gps installations.... oh well, different strokes for different folks.

 

But.... I base this on the first first paragraph written in bold, and the second paragraph, which try's to add to or explain the first.....  followed by the third paragraph, which makes the link to the accident, by saying "this news (OP) comes as.... ". Which means the fatal crash is a secondary issue to the OP. 

 

but thats perhaps just me.... and therefore... to stay on topic.... my thoughts would be to suggest setting undeniable guidelines to determine private use vehicles from public use vehicles.... eg... are the occupants known / related to driver ? (if no, then they are paying customers) to enforce correct licensing, and in turn, enforce installation or compliance with new safety (?) initiatives.