Long term stay, under 50 gay couple.

[Feel The Sun]

Hi Guys, a little advice would be appreciated. I originally posted this over at Pattaya Talk and the kind chaps there pointed me to you.

I've read so many conflicting things online about the current situation re visas and their enforcement. In a nutshell, my partner and I have spent a couple of months in Thailand every year for about the last 18 years and have decided to make a more permanent move. My partner is almost 50 and it looks like he may be granted early retirement on health grounds, and I'm 41. We would be selling our house in the U.K. and leasing, at first, for a year in Pattaya. We would be reliant on our savings + funds from house sale but should be more than comfortable and able to satisfy the retirement visa criteria when we reached 50. But it's this interim period. :-/

I know we can get 60 day tourists visa which can be extended by 30 whilst in the country. But what about beyond that? Are we able to, for example, fly over to KL and apply for a further visa and repeat the process in order to stay relatively permanently in Thailand until applying for a retirement visa when we're 50? As mentioned, were a same sex couple so there is no option for 'dependant ' routes.

I read that immigration have been intermittently cracking down on the "visa run". Besides which, leaving the Kingdom every 30 days really isn't practical. I would be concerned in case we were denied entry following a 'run' when most of our lives will be in a Pattaya condo. :-/

Any advice would be great. Thanks. :)

[AlexRich]

I've spent a great deal of time in Thailand as an under 50, and there are three options that I can think of:

 

1) Take a language course and the visa will allow you to stay without exiting. If you are planning to stay forever this would make sense ... less hassle and you get to learn the language. Downside is that you are committing to I believe 4 x 2hr classes per week. You could also do private one to one sessions at a higher price, and perhaps you could kill it all in one day (more flexibility). That could be done for a few years.

 

2) Take a Teach English as a Foreign Language course and do a bit of teaching ... means working of course, and might be pretty time consuming ... would not be my choice.

 

3) Do the visa runs. This is what I did. I spent a couple of weeks to one month in a neighbouring country ... Bali, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Kuala Lumpur ... great experience and no hassle at any of the foreign consulates when it came to getting a visa. I'm not entirely sure how long this can be done without causing alarm bells with immigration. 

 

You could do 1) for a few years, see what you can get away with, then 3) for another few. Option 2) is also a possibility.

 

Could get your partner from 41 to 50 ... also the rules can change and they might do so to your advantage.

[Jingthing]

Hi there,

You're talking about a bunch of kludges done for a very long time in the case of a 41 year old.

I don't see the retirement visa age going under 50. 

My honest feedback is not to do this if you really expect a high degree of probability that it will work for such a long time. 

It will be a very insecure situation which can fall apart very quickly.

Yes, it would be different if the 41 year old can work but that doesn't seem to be the plan. 

I would look into nations that have "retirement" or other visas that fit this situation much better -- Cambodia, Philippines, and Ecuador come to mind. 

 

[IMA_FARANG]

Are you and your partner legally married?

You may have apr0blem if not.

Long stay visas in Thailand require a marriage or a retirement (over 50 years of age)

I do not know the rules about same sex marriages in Thailand.

However I do not think Thailand allows them.

And definitely no retirement visa/ extensions unless you are over 50 years of age.

There may be creative ways to get around this, but it will be difficult.

Possibly you can both go for the Thai Elite card program.

I will let others with more knowledge see if they can suggest some possibilities.

But just to warn you, Thailand is stillfar behind other countries in the rules on "domestic partners"

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Hi there,

You're talking about a bunch of kludges done for a very long time in the case of a 41 year old.

I don't see the retirement visa age going under 50. 

My honest feedback is not to do this if you really expect a high degree of probability that it will work for such a long time. 

It will be a very insecure situation which can fall apart very quickly.

Yes, it would be different if the 41 year old can work but that doesn't seem to be the plan. 

I would look into nations that have "retirement" or other visas that fit this situation much better -- Cambodia, Philippines, and Ecuador come to mind. 

 

Cambodia is underdeveloped ... okay if your happy to see people pissing in the streets. Philippines a bit dangerous ... and Ecuador not on the radar of UK folk. 

[Jingthing]

I agree with the member that says look into the ELITE CARD program. That might just be the ticket. I didn't consider that and can't say for sure. 

 

OK, it's Thailand only for you.

 

Whether you are married or not is totally irrelevant.

You'll be applying for visas separately as Thailand doesn't recognize same sex marriage, etc. 

It's possible within 10 years that may change, but don't bet on that. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Jingthing

[Feel The Sun]

Thanks for all the detailed advice guys. :)

 

I think the Elite may be a bit rich for our blood. :-/ I did consider the language course option but wouldn't really want it to be overly time-consuming as we like to travel very frequently over there. We spent three months based there from September to December just gone, and probably spent half of that between Laos, Vietnam, KL and  Singapore. We would almost certainly spend a good chunk of our time doing this if we were to 'live' in Thailand. Leaving TL for an occasional lengthy period would not be an issue.

 

Nowt is simple. :-/

[Jingthing]

You would only need ONE Elite Card. The guy near 50 can find a way to make it to 50. If ONE Elite Card is too expensive, I question that you really have the financial capability to move at those younger ages to Thailand for life.

Sorry if this sounds negative, just keeping it real. 

More realness, the chances of making it from 41 to 50 on visa runs and language courses is in my opinion extremely low. Over that amount of time based on history you can expect multiple "crackdowns" on visa run and education visa rule details ... there is no way it will be exactly the same as it is now. 

 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Jingthing

[ukrules]

Elite card for under 50 and retirement visa when 50 and above is the way to go for a hassle free long term stay. It will be non stop hassle for the next 9 years until you're also old enough to retire otherwise.

 

I got one of these 5 year elite visas a few years back and it works well.

 

Of course you could always get a job wi th a visa / work permit or start a business and go down that route but that might not be something you're planning to do.

[Feel The Sun]

Hmm, never thought about the scenario of only one Elite...

 

Would you mind elaborating on how on how it works please? I've googled it and looked through the website but my brain is about to implode with all the info I've absorbed. :-/

 

Re affordability, I think we'd be fine. My concern is that a large chuck of capital would be held by the Elite program and I'd worry about its return. (?)

 

Laymans explanation would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks again for your time and input, All. :)

[SaintLouisBlues]

12 minutes ago, Feel The Sun said:

Re affordability, I think we'd be fine. My concern is that a large chuck of capital would be held by the Elite program and I'd worry about its return. (?)

Not sure about Elite demanding a deposit that may not be returned - it's a one-off, straight out purchase. The price depends on the period of time you need one for - five, ten or twenty years and the benefits you want to accompany it

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, Feel The Sun said:

Hmm, never thought about the scenario of only one Elite...

 

Would you mind elaborating on how on how it works please? I've googled it and looked through the website but my brain is about to implode with all the info I've absorbed. :-/

 

Re affordability, I think we'd be fine. My concern is that a large chuck of capital would be held by the Elite program and I'd worry about its return. (?)

 

Laymans explanation would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks again for your time and input, All. :)

 

It doesn't get returned I'm afraid, it's a purchase.

 

While you're a member they issue 5 year visas until the membership expires.

 

As for how it works, once you have this visa you get 1 year entrance stamps each time you enter the country and if you don't feel like leaving you can just extend it for 1 year every time your entry stamp expires until the visa runs out. There are other benefits depending on which option you go for.

 

 

 

[rhodie]

The fee for the 5 year visa is 500,000 baht. No refund. That gives you 5 years without any problems and you can re-evaluate then. I am sure things will change over the next 5 years anyway.

 

http://www.thai-elite.com/ 

[JackThompson]

If you like to visit other countries in the region, you can leave every 90-Days (60 Tourist Visa + 30 extension) and pick up a new Tourist Visa before you return.  As of now, there is no limit on how much time you can spend in Thailand on Tourist Visas.  BUT, this could change in the future, and you absolutely must follow the rules - no overstaying.   The cost for the run, alone, not including any "vacation activities" while on your trip, is about 5K Baht every 90 days. 

 

You could get a METV (Multiple Entry Tourist Visas) from your home-country.  It requires more qualifications than a single-entry Tourist Visa, but gives you 6 Months, each entry is 60 days which can be extended for 30, and if you do a border-bounce just before it expires, you can get nearly 9 months out of it.  You can then move to Single Entry Tourist Visas until you want to return to your home-country for another METV.

 

If, after doing this awhile, if/when you get tired of the visa-runs, and you really want to stay - then consider more permanent options, such as ...

 

Consider the extension-of-stay based on Investment option (often called an "investor visa" - not technically correct).  If you have 500K or more to "spend" on a visa, surely you have 10M Baht you could put in an investment in Thailand, which would allow you to stay and Keep Your Money/Investment if you decide to leave.  The money can go in banks and new condos - but be careful that your investment qualifies precisely with the rules.  Given it is getting harder to stay in Thailand, in general, I don't think new condos are a good investment.

 

You could also purchase / start a business that employs 4 Thai persons, and qualify for an extension of stay based on this. 

 

Note that the ED visa only gets you 18 Months total of Thai Language - actually 2 visas are needed, as they are only good for a year - with one additional trip out-of-country for the 2nd one.  It is reported that whether you study/attend or not, paying an "extra fee" is the only way to avoid hassles from Immigration in some areas.  Some merely change languages every 18 months and do this in perpetuity.

Edited January 27, 2017 by JackThompson

[SaintLouisBlues]

You need to do a proper cost-benefit analysis. Since the (almost) 50yo can stay indefinitely with no need to leave the country once he's turned 50 and got his long-stay visa, the issue becomes how much you want to spend vs. how much you need to spend to maintain a quasi-right-to-stay for the 41yo for the next ~9 years. If you can pad out the time at the start and until you turn 50, is it worth spending 500K baht for a 5-year Thailand Elite Easy Access (ie. THB100K  or USD3K per year)? Or are you and your partner going to want to gallivant around and therefore you're happy to spend money applying for METV and having to leave every 60/90 days, travel costs etc?

 

Only you can answer those questions

[Jingthing]

Also to consider the financial requirements for retirement status here may be raised within 9 years especially as it's been a long time since they were raised before. The older guy may be OK on a "grandfathering" clause that has historically been granted here, allowing using the current level of finances, but anyone starting out new would be subject to them. 

 

If I sound not "encouraging" of your plans, that would be a correct perception. If you do try it especially trying to overstretch visa runs and education visa stints, I think you will find that Thai immigration officers (they are POLICE) will not be "encouraging" of such schemes either. 

 

Tourist visas are intended for tourists. Nine years ... not a tourist. Expect pushback. 

 

Not making any moral judgments on such a plan. Just feel it's not realistic.  

Edited January 28, 2017 by Jingthing

[Canceraid]

Hi Alex Rich, wishing both of you all the best in both your endeavours, please do not forget to post under the Pattaya Forum of Thaivisa in three years time or less,what had happened to the two of you. Thanks. 

[SaintLouisBlues]

2 hours ago, rhodie said:

The fee for the 5 year visa is 500,000 baht. No refund. That gives you 5 years without any problems and you can re-evaluate then. I am sure things will change over the next 5 years anyway.

 

http://www.thai-elite.com/ 

I've noticed Thailand Elite has slightly changed the format of its offerings. There's now a "Singles" page and a "Families" page (or maybe I just haven't looked recently)

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, rhodie said:

The fee for the 5 year visa is 500,000 baht. No refund. That gives you 5 years without any problems and you can re-evaluate then. I am sure things will change over the next 5 years anyway.

 

http://www.thai-elite.com/ 

The best site is this one http://www.thailandelite.com/glimpse.php

It has more info and links. The other one is a secondary one. Not sure why they keep it running.

[glegolo]

You do not like the idea of working as it is a bit too time-consuming.... And you do not like the idea of language-course, it is too time-consuming.

 

So if your´e only goal here is to just do "nothing", and the rest of the time spend travelling all around Asia, then maybe it is a better idea NOT to have Thailand as you base head-quarter? Maybe choose another country that allow you two boys to live your lifes without too much VISA-hassle....

 

Glegolo

[Old people]

 I had a friend go over Mae Sai/Tachileik (thai/burma border 4 times a year, but I know many countries Thai consulates have stopped issuing  multiple entry retied Visa over 50s. You can still get it in USA still, what about other countries? ?????

 The 12 Month visa used to cost couple hundred dollars.

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, Old people said:

 I had a friend go over Mae Sai/Tachileik (thai/burma border 4 times a year, but I know many countries Thai consulates have stopped issuing  multiple entry retied Visa over 50s. You can still get it in USA still, what about other countries? ?????

 The 12 Month visa used to cost couple hundred dollars.

They are no longer available in the US. Only honorary consulates were issuing them and in August of last year the ability for them to issue any multiple entry visa was taken away. Only the embassy in DC and the 3 official consulates can issue multiple entry visas. They will only issue a OA visa for being 50 or over.

[Chicken George]

i could be wrong as in its dependant on where you aply for a retirement extention but it was 49 when i applied. I was 50 but the ofgicer crossed it out and said no you are 51! He said you are 51 we count here in Thailand when you are 49 from thst day you are 50. So Im assuming when you are 49 you can apply for an extention to your O visa for reason of retirement at age 49. He said i could have.. That could make it a year closer.. 

Just do your sums coming here . It often works out more expensive that you first think. Hospital costs being one of those.. Good luck

[Khon Kaen Dave]

I have read your post,and i wish you both the best of luck with your plans.The other posters have given you much advice and good advice it is,i will not give you both anymore only to say,in the kindest way. Do not sell your home in the Uk,until you have been here at least 2/3 years and are fully aware what it means to live here full time.Many have done that,made a mistake,found out that Thailand is not the promised land,it pretends to be.Dont forget we are still under martial law here and under an unelected prime minister.Any thing can happen.As a gay couple you would have to be more than cautious,see last months terrible,alledged treatment of The Dublin Guys.

Good luck.

[Lite Beer]

You have to be past your 50th birthday to apply for retirement status.

Unfortunately there really is not much option for the 41 year old.

Tourist Visas or Elite seems to be it.

[Dorian232]

9 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

Are you and your partner legally married?

You may have apr0blem if not.

Long stay visas in Thailand require a marriage or a retirement (over 50 years of age)

I do not know the rules about same sex marriages in Thailand.

However I do not think Thailand allows them.

And definitely no retirement visa/ extensions unless you are over 50 years of age.

There may be creative ways to get around this, but it will be difficult.

Possibly you can both go for the Thai Elite card program.

I will let others with more knowledge see if they can suggest some possibilities.

But just to warn you, Thailand is stillfar behind other countries in the rules on "domestic partners"

Thailand does.not accept same sex marriages

[newnative]

40 minutes ago, Chicken George said:

i could be wrong as in its dependant on where you aply for a retirement extention but it was 49 when i applied. I was 50 but the ofgicer crossed it out and said no you are 51! He said you are 51 we count here in Thailand when you are 49 from thst day you are 50. So Im assuming when you are 49 you can apply for an extention to your O visa for reason of retirement at age 49. He said i could have.. That could make it a year closer.. 

Just do your sums coming here . It often works out more expensive that you first think. Hospital costs being one of those.. Good luck

 Totally true. My birthday is in very late December and in my mind I just turned 65--but Thailand thinks I'm already 66! I only got to be 65 for 2 days!  When I fill out forms and give my age they always cross it out and add a year after they look at my birth year.  In your shoes, I would do the 5 year elite visa. Yes, it costs but you won't be tied down doing language lessons, visa runs, working, etc.  Your schedule will be yours and you can be foot loose and fancy free to do what you want.  After 5 years, you can take stock and see how you are liking living in Pattaya.  By then the rules may have changed or there may be some more options to finesse the last couple of years until you qualify.  Snide comments from some posters aside, my partner and I have lived in Pattaya for almost 7 years and we love it.  Good luck!

[LivinLOS]

10 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

Are you and your partner legally married?

You may have apr0blem if not.

 

I had always read Thailand doesnt recognize gay marriage in visas or any legal manner. 

[jak2002003]

I have a similar situation to the OP.

 

I am 40, my partner is 60

 

We are married in the UK, but that counts for nothing in Thailand.

 

We came here when I was 30....Came here on multiple entry O visa for one year.   I did teaching after that visa (did the TEFL course in UK before coming here).  After a few years of that I got a serious health issue which resulted in me loosing most of my vision, and was not able to travel to the schools, so I then switched to the ELITE visa.. 5 year one. 

 

By this time my partner had his retirement visa.

 

I would warn you that it can be frustrating here with the visas for younger people.  Also you won't get any legal help with your same sex marriage.  We went through a couple of bad patches, and I was left with no legal rights and going back to UK with no home, job or money... as its all tied up here in our house... very scary!!  Be careful.  I would not do it again if I had the choice.  In fact I want to go back to the UK, but am now stuck here with a house we can't sell, and no rights to my own money if I leave here.

 

 

[LivinLOS]

As someone whose lived here since he was 28 and no hope of a retirement option despite ample funds I would say.. 

 

Get the elite.. If 500k seems like too high a cost.. You may want to consider if you have enough funds for your plans. 

 

The sale of a house in UK better be a grand one.. If you expect to sustain 2 westerners, for decades, in a country which is rapidly getting richer. I wouldnt consider it without a mil GBP banked, sure for a holiday, even a long one, but not as a 'for life' jump.