Trump bars door to refugees, visitors from seven nations

[LammyTS1]

https://www.henleyglobal.com/files/download/HP/hvri/HP%20Visa%20Restrictions%20Index%20160223.pdf

Once again, If the protests are so big? I imagine they must be protesting against every nation in the world that follows the same immigration policy!

If not, please explain?


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[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, LammyTS1 said:

https://www.henleyglobal.com/files/download/HP/hvri/HP%20Visa%20Restrictions%20Index%20160223.pdf

Take a look at all the countries on that list and then explain to me why all nations worldwide adopt the same strategy as USA?


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Your link has ZILCH to do with the issue of the trump Muslim ban. No interest in engaging with people posting such bogus links as proof of bogus assertions. IGNORE LIST. 

[LammyTS1]

Your link has ZILCH to do with the issue of the trump Muslim ban. No interest in engaging with people posting such bogus links as proof of bogus assertions. IGNORE LIST. 

I am asking for factual evidence in relation to your posts? There is no Muslim ban as you suggest.

I have provided sufficient evidence to support all my statements.

I have shown that all countries on Mr Trumps list are in the bottom of the visa regulation list of 2016. He is just following what all other nations worldwide do. Did you read my link?

Please provide a reason why USA should be any different?



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[WaywardWind]

6 hours ago, JetsetBkk said:

 

The list is Obama's. 

 

 

No, it is not.

 

Trump's people are saying that, but it is simply not true.

 

Turn off Fox, and read something other than Breitbart.

[LammyTS1]

No, it is not.

 

Trump's people are saying that, but it is simply not true.

 

Turn off Fox, and read something other than Breitbart.

Not fox & not Brektbat whoever that may be.

It is the visa regulation list 2016.

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[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

No, it is not.

 

Trump's people are saying that, but it is simply not true.

 

Turn off Fox, and read something other than Breitbart.

Yes and the truly great and sorely missed American president Obama has already pushed back directly on this lie. trump had better own the fascist policies he's ordering. Blaming it on Obama won't cut it. The resistance movement to trumpists ain't nearly that stupid to by that. Of course his base of trumpisstas buy everything out of his tiny tweeting hands. We're so divided and trump is making it much, much, worse. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Jingthing

[LammyTS1]

Yes and the truly great and sorely missed American president Obama has already pushed back directly on this lie. trump had better own the fascist policies he's ordering. Blaming it on Obama won't cut it. The resistance movement to trumpists ain't nearly that stupid to by that. Of course his base of trumpisstas buy everything out of his tiny tweeting hands. We're so divided and trump is making it much, much, worse. 

Obama.......

At least one of his policies on immigration have finally come true with Mr Trump


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[WaywardWind]

9 minutes ago, LammyTS1 said:

Not fox & not Brektbat whoever that may be.

It is the visa regulation list 2016.

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No it is not. You can read the TTPA a hundred times, and it will not say what Trump's people says it does, and which you repeat like a good little boy.

[LammyTS1]

No it is not. You can read the TTPA a hundred times, and it will not say what Trump's people says it does, and which you repeat like a good little boy.

So you refute the visa regulation list 2016 that all nations worldwide follow?

I would love to hear your explanation of this!


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[WaywardWind]

12 minutes ago, LammyTS1 said:

 

So you refute the visa regulation list 2016 that all nations worldwide follow?

I would love to hear your explanation of this!


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Do you understand what you are reading at the Henley site?

 

It is a list which shows how many countries  holders of particular passports can travel to without a visa.

 

That has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation, and your continued reliance on it is nothing short of laughable.

[Rhys]

For fun ready on the deep state, try the Bonner Report...  Airports must be a pain for ALL travelers..

[F4UCorsair]

44 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

No it is not. You can read the TTPA a hundred times, and it will not say what Trump's people says it does, and which you repeat like a good little boy.

 

Patronizing comments are not required, AND reportable!!   I won't bother, but please be careful, and more importantly, engage in a mature way.

Edited January 30, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[WaywardWind]

9 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

Patronizing comments are not required, AND reportable!!   I won't bother, but please be careful, and more importantly, engage in a mature way.

Actually, it is not:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

 

Under your reading, dozens of folks would be ousted for the relentless "snowflakes" name calling.

[Scott]

Several of you will get booted for a while if you don't get back on topic.

 

[Skeptic7]

5 hours ago, balo said:

Aylar, a Norwegian famous  model and poker player with dual Norwegian-Iranian citizenship has been denied entry into the US. 

Every year she normally stays in Las Vegas  , and now she can't go there!  Big news story in Norway right now.  Trump who owns several hotels in Vegas will actually lose business. What a stupid man . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Poker"...count me in! 

[ilostmypassword]

A lot of posters have been citing various fake news sources about a supposed 6 month ban that Obama imposed in 2011. There was no ban. There was a slowdown after 2 suspected terrorists got past the system and the system was made more stringent. But immigrants from these nations were still getting into the USA.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/29/trumps-facile-claim-that-his-refugee-policy-is-similar-to-obama-in-2011/?utm_term=.63c70be4c670

[F4UCorsair]

1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said:

"Poker"...count me in! 

So Trump doesn't care if he loses business by putting his political obligations first?    There are those here who would argue that.

 

I bet she's one of many, and he WILL lose business, but obligations of his office come first.

[Thakkar]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Here's a suggestion:

 

I'd say, waive Trump's policy for any adult Muslim who's willing to come to the U.S. and successfully complete say two years of paid community service working with Jewish charities, Christian-Catholic charities, gay and lesbian groups, etc etc.

 

If they successfully complete that kind of program and show they can integrate with U.S. society and be tolerant of those around them who may hold different beliefs and views and faiths, then I'd say -- WELCOME TO AMERICA.

 

You're the kind of immigrants the U.S. should want. Because that kind of person is what the U.S. really is supposed to be about. Not the ones who fester in anger because those around them don't necessarily hold the same beliefs and they can't abide those who don't.

 

I actually think that's not a bad idea. But it should be applied to non Muslims as well: Hindus have to volunteer at Christian and Muslim charities; Christians at Jewish and Muslim charities, atheists at Mormon and Scientology charities (we atheists deserve the looniest gigs!)

 

but, seriously, I wholeheartedly agree. America is a melting pot and that should be the guiding principle.

[maewang99]

this is only the start.  directly related topic is m.o.n.e.y..... next.

this is the one we elected to be president as 80,000,000 baby boomers, both sexes having worked and paid in, are about to collect their "entitlements".....

 

we will see plenty more of this kind of misdirection... the USA has serious problems to face and all we can come up with is magical thinking ..... and misdirection.

it we didn't already have tons of nukes.... we would be doing the same shit Kim Jung Un does.. you wouldn't be able to tell the difference at all.
 

 

Edited January 31, 2017 by maewang99

[Fookhaht]

Three glaring "writings on the wall" are France, Germany, and (most of all) Sweden.

They are a picture of what the USA will look like in the not-too-distant future unless immigration is brought under control with extreme vetting.

Can't see any other way around it.


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[Thakkar]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The reasons for excluding or restricting immigration by those various national groups in the past were mostly, AFAIK, based in ethnic/nationalistic prejudice and economics-job protection. And I certainly don't support ethnic or nationalistic prejudice as the basis for immigration restrictions.

 

However, in the current circumstance, the temporary restrictions (and presumably the eventual permanent policies) are supposed to be aimed at preventing an influx of potential Muslim extremism into the U.S.  And unlike the prior eras, no one's going to make a legitimate argument that Muslim extremism and terrorism isn't a legitimate, real thread to the U.S. and its citizens.

 

Now, it's perfectly possible to have a debate on whether the specific policy promulgated by Trump is the correct/best way to prevent an influx of Muslim extremism into the U.S.  But nobody much seems to want to have that discussion. Instead, it's all been about, no, you shouldn't impose any more restrictions on the abilities of Muslims to enter the U.S. or you're engaging in religious discrimination.

 

To me, whatever we end up doing, I hope we're engaging in a very strong form of terrorist/terrorism discrimination.

 

I have no issue with countries excercising their right to protect their homeland from potential dangers. But that isn't what's going on here. One proof of this is that Trump's own Security chief heard about the ban on TV : http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/donald-trump-usa-travel-ban-muslim-john-f-kelly-secretary-of-homeland-secutity-tv-a7552821.html

 

This was designed to be punitive, sudden, cause chaos, inflame liberals, delight his Deplorables and grab headlines. Something else is at play here and it isn't about preventing terrorism.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that there should be no restrictions on Muslims entering. The argument is that those with visas and green cards and work permits that are being barred have already been vetted. When it comes to refugees, they have been extreme vetted. Something like two out of 800,000 have slipped through the cracks. 

 

Again, this ban isn't about security. Already, Bannon has opened up a new front by suggesting "having too many Asian tech CEOs undermines ‘civic society’ " - http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/16/13653490/steve-bannon-trump-presidency-chief-strategist-breitbart-tech-visa

 

culture wars, race-baiting, mayhem, chaos, inflaming passions, — I have a chilling feeling that this is all a prelude to something sinister. I know some Jews and even second generation Muslim Americans who are making exit plans as a precaution. 

[JHolmesJr]

8 hours ago, LammyTS1 said:

 

The whole world is now looking forward to the demise of the looney liberals.

After decades of failed immigration policies, the forward & decent thinking people are now voting along with the liberal looneys and out voting them.

UK and US both voted unanimously for new forward thinking leaders who place their OWN people first. What's wrong with that?

France and Germany will certainly follow in 2017. Anyone disagree with that?


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Hear, hear!

[evadgib]

A Howler from 'Billy Bunter' in Parliament yesterday during a related debate :)

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38801422 

 

(Churchill's grandson Sir Nicholas Soames!)

Edited January 31, 2017 by evadgib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Thakkar said:

I actually think that's not a bad idea. But it should be applied to non Muslims as well: Hindus have to volunteer at Christian and Muslim charities; Christians at Jewish and Muslim charities, atheists at Mormon and Scientology charities (we atheists deserve the looniest gigs!)

 

but, seriously, I wholeheartedly agree. America is a melting pot and that should be the guiding principle.

 

I was actually serious in the suggestion, but not that I think anyone anywhere would take the idea and run with it in the U.S. government.

 

However, there are lots of examples around of what otherwise would be called "national service."  Most Thai young men are required to spend two years or so in the Army. I think Israel does a similar thing. The U.S. already has existing national service programs where things like student loan debt is forgiven in exchange for spending time in various service assignments.

 

The point of my suggestion was, as you pointed out, getting at the notion of America as a melting pot. I have absolutely NO problem with Muslims who want to come to the U.S. and become part of and accept the melting pot that is the U.S.

 

The problem, however, has been with fundamentalist Muslims who feel that their religion and ways are the only ways, and everyone else has to play by their rules or suffer the consequences. Then when they come to or land in western countries where most of the rest of those around them won't play by their rules, it makes them feel isolated, angry, crazy and ultimately can lead to violence and aggression.

 

The trick in the entire immigration debate (at least for those who are not racist on the subject) is to try to distinguish the first kind of Muslims (who I think most Americans would be OK to accept) vs. the second kind of Muslims, who are the kind who end up making the front pages of the newspapers when they finally get so crazed that they start shooting, stabbing and otherwise harming the innocent folks around them.

 

Perhaps some kind of targeted national service program for immigrants -- aimed at fostering participation in the melting pot concept -- would be one way of sorting things out.  If I were a fundamentalist Muslim, and coming to the U.S. meant having two years of paid work dealing with Jewish, Christian, gay, etc. community service groups, I'd probably change my plane reservation and head for some other western "paradise."

 

[SaintLouisBlues]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Most Thai young men are required to spend two years or so in the Army.

"most"? That will be news to many of them

[hugh2121]

On 29/01/2017 at 0:58 PM, Thakkar said:

 

What if they are Muslim? Does it follow that all Muslims should be suspect? Does being killed by Muslims make you deader than being killed by White extremists? 

The fact is, you are seven times as likely to be killed by a right wing extremist than by a Muslim terrorist.

 

https://thinkprogress.org/you-are-more-than-7-times-as-likely-to-be-killed-by-a-right-wing-extremist-than-by-muslim-terrorists-417f3c3461db#.ejtf3ingz

 

Should all whites be suspect now?

And you are more likely to be killed on the road than in an air crash.

 

Like your statement above, it means nothing unless you take steps to try to ensure it doesn't happen to you.

 

I certainly would not trust anybody who follows the teachings of a paedophile.

 

Any chance of Donald becoming world premier?

[SaintLouisBlues]

3 minutes ago, hugh2121 said:

I certainly would not trust anybody who follows the teachings of a paedophile.

You do know that the author of Alice in Wonderland was almost certainly a pedophile? Yet his books contain so many wise obesrvations

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

"most"? That will be news to many of them

Except those who avoid it via the lottery selection, buy their way out, obtain an education exemption, or provide convincing evidence that they've become ladyboys!!!

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Except those who avoid it via the lottery selection, buy their way out, obtain an education exemption, or provide convincing evidence that they've become ladyboys!!!

If you look it up, the Army seeks around 100,000 recruits each year for a two-tear stint. That's nothing like "most" Thai 20yo men. Many are volunteers. Conscripts form the remainder

[hugh2121]

9 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

You do know that the author of Alice in Wonderland was almost certainly a pedophile? Yet his books contain so many wise obesrvations

I couldn't really care less about Alice in Wonderland. Was she a junkie? Was she a muslim?

Edited January 31, 2017 by hugh2121