Govt considers letting poor people ride BTS for free, and netizens are angry

[snoop1130]

Govt considers letting poor people ride BTS for free, and netizens are angry

By Coconuts Bangkok

 

Photo: Uwe Schwarzbach

 

Aside from free electricity, insurance, and bus rides, the Ministry of Finance is now considering letting low-income earners ride the BTS for free, and netizens are not pleased.

 

Finance Secretary-General Somchai Sujjapongse said the free BTS policy is aimed at helping low income earners cut their transportation costs, and he believes it will not be a burden to the country's budget.

 

 

Awww Somchai.

 

Full Story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2017/02/02/govt-considers-letting-poor-people-ride-bts-free-and-netizens-are-pissed

 

-- © Copyright Coconuts Bangkok 2017-2-2

[pookiki]

For many Thais earning minimum wage, transportation costs can be nearly as much as their monthly rent. Traffic to and from their home/room can take up to four hours a day. As the skytrain/subway system expands, the costs for riders need to be more reasonable and uniform.

 

For those who are on welfare, maybe it would be better to increase the welfare benefits to include rising costs for transportation because not all those receiving benefits live in Bangkok but still incur transportation expenses nonetheless.

[Cuchulainn]

"Free bus is enough for the poor. The government has been issuing enough policies to fleece taxpayers. Free BTS, is that too much? If you’re poor, wake up early to catch a free bus, so you don’t have to be society’s burden and waste the tax money,"

 

Because they can't get something for nothing, they would deny it to the deserving? Typical Thai mentality and selfishness. Me me me me me ..................

Edited February 2, 2017 by Cuchulainn
Quotation marks

[impulse]

I'd be all for making it affordable -by gov't subsidies- for low income people to ride the MRT and BTS, but not free.  If it costs nothing, there's a tendency to use anything a lot more than it's needed.  And the BTS and MRT are already pretty jammed during much of the day, especially around rush hour.

 

Even 2-5 baht would prevent abusing the system just because it's free.

[trogers]

Whatever that is free has no value...

 

Ask any parents if they would agree that their daughters gave away free sex...

[Crossy]

I suspect this is actually the plan for the low-income version of the Mangmoom card.

 

The idea is that once a person has demonstrated the need he will be issued with a personalised card (photo) which is topped-up automagcally each month with value to be used only on the transit systems, once it's gone it's gone. Note that the current model is for a top up TO a specific value, so it cannot be carried over to the next period, use it or lose it.

 

The sensible would of course continue to use the bus as the fares are lower.

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, Crossy said:

I suspect this is actually the plan for the low-income version of the Mangmoom card.

 

The idea is that once a person has demonstrated the need he will be issued with a personalised card (photo) which is topped-up automagcally each month with value to be used only on the transit systems, once it's gone it's gone. Note that the current model is for a top up TO a specific value, so it cannot be carried over to the next period, use it or lose it.

 

The sensible would of course continue to use the bus as the fares are lower.

Now I understand the need for the poor to travel too and that suggestion sounds smart. The only problem I have with it is that the BTS is full enough already and non poor people are paying enough. Surely its not a smart idea to add to the amounts there already are and taking a bus would be better. Its either that or increase the amount of BTS carts, adding non paying members of the public to an already crowded system is not a smart thing to do. 

[DrTuner]

How about a novel idea .. build a working, extensive and affordable subway as they've done, well, in most places. No? Didn't think so.

[yardrunner]

50 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

How about a novel idea .. build a working, extensive and affordable subway as they've done, well, in most places. No? Didn't think so.

would that be below sea level?

[Searat7]

The system is really jammed now....with expansion they will need additional train cars but I don't read about any purchases.....the German train cars for BTS and MRT would have a long lead time. 

[newnative]

I give the subway a grade of C-.  The main problem is always not enough train cars so it is always packed every time I use it. And, I don't mean a little packed but very uncomfortably packed where you can't move and it's difficult to get off and on.  Second problem, the trains don't run often enough.  Always a long wait and, when they finally arrive, packed. No wonder the regular riders are not happy about this proposal.  All the trains should be about twice as long as they are and run twice as often. That would be a start.

[Enoon]

 

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Now I understand the need for the poor to travel too and that suggestion sounds smart. The only problem I have with it is that the BTS is full enough already and non poor people are paying enough. Surely its not a smart idea to add to the amounts there already are and taking a bus would be better. Its either that or increase the amount of BTS carts, adding non paying members of the public to an already crowded system is not a smart thing to do. 

 

If you are happy with a feudalistic governing class what's your problem with this?

 

The poorest have little or nothing, they are maintained with a minimum investment (as "livestock") by a wealthy overclass, and in return they deliver very cheap labour, they remain passive, grateful and obedient to the whims of their lords, most importantly they remain non-political.

 

That is the objective of this government, it seems to be your ideal, so why are you complaining?

 

 

 

 

[robblok]

 
 
If you are happy with a feudalistic governing class what's your problem with this?
 
The poorest have little or nothing, they are maintained with a minimum investment (as "livestock") by a wealthy overclass, and in return they deliver very cheap labour, they remain passive, grateful and obedient to the whims of their lords, most importantly they remain non-political.
 
That is the objective of this government, it seems to be your ideal, so why are you complaining?
 
 
 
 

Im happy they provide for the poor i just question the wisdom of adding the poor to the already overcrowded BTS unless they add more trains per hour or add extra carts.

The BTS is packed already.

[The Dark Lord]

3 hours ago, yardrunner said:

would that be below sea level?

There is one working btwn France and uk........lots of free and even paying ( the traveller on arrival) places there.......

[thai3]

Insane idea, they already have free buses stick with them. Mrs made me wait for one once, then wanted to get off after one stop as full of 'poor smelly people'  

[smokie36]

Great principle....awful if executed.

[impulse]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

I give the subway a grade of C-.  The main problem is always not enough train cars so it is always packed every time I use it. And, I don't mean a little packed but very uncomfortably packed where you can't move and it's difficult to get off and on.  Second problem, the trains don't run often enough.  Always a long wait and, when they finally arrive, packed. No wonder the regular riders are not happy about this proposal.  All the trains should be about twice as long as they are and run twice as often. That would be a start.

 

You'd hate Tokyo and Beijing where they actually have guys paid to push the passengers into already packed carriages.

 

I'd give the MRT a solid B+.  I've never seen a speck of litter, or smelled a wiff of pee, unlike subways back home, nor have I ever been approached by scammers or beggars- which is also a pleasant difference here in BKK.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

You'd hate Tokyo and Beijing where they actually have guys paid to push the passengers into already packed carriages.

 

I'd give the MRT a solid B+.  I've never seen a speck of litter, or smelled a wiff of pee, unlike subways back home, nor have I ever been approached by scammers or beggars- which is also a pleasant difference here in BKK.

I've been on both and give them a C-, too.  But, Tokyo does have an express train from the airport with assigned seats, which was nice.  Bangkok could have longer trains--I don't know why it doesn't. Used it a week ago and my partner and I lined up at the yellow boarding markings on the platform.  The subway attendant came over and told us not to stand there as the train only had a few cars and would not reach that boarding area. 

[gdgbb]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

Now I understand the need for the poor to travel too and that suggestion sounds smart. The only problem I have with it is that the BTS is full enough already and non poor people are paying enough. Surely its not a smart idea to add to the amounts there already are and taking a bus would be better. Its either that or increase the amount of BTS carts, adding non paying members of the public to an already crowded system is not a smart thing to do. 

Condescending claptrap. 

 

If you think that you wouldn't like the influx of poor people onto your non-poor BTS you could always get the bus just as you are suggesting that it would be better for them to do.  How dare the poor sully your revered BTS, eh?  What difference would it make to you whether additional passengers paid a fare or not, do paying passengers take up less room perhaps?

[gdgbb]

8 hours ago, DrTuner said:

How about a novel idea .. build a working, extensive and affordable subway as they've done, well, in most places. No? Didn't think so.

It's already been done, it's called the MRT.

[gdgbb]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

I give the subway a grade of C-.  The main problem is always not enough train cars so it is always packed every time I use it. And, I don't mean a little packed but very uncomfortably packed where you can't move and it's difficult to get off and on.  Second problem, the trains don't run often enough.  Always a long wait and, when they finally arrive, packed. No wonder the regular riders are not happy about this proposal.  All the trains should be about twice as long as they are and run twice as often. That would be a start.

This report is nothing to do with the MRT subway and will have no effect on it whatsoever.

[robblok]

17 minutes ago, gdgbb said:

Condescending claptrap. 

 

If you think that you wouldn't like the influx of poor people onto your non-poor BTS you could always get the bus just as you are suggesting that it would be better for them to do.  How dare the poor sully your revered BTS, eh?  What difference would it make to you whether additional passengers paid a fare or not, do paying passengers take up less room perhaps?

Nope.. the whole fact is that if you give a lot of poor people access for free they will use it and add to the already crowded system. So either don't do it.. or do it and ad extra trains / wagons. 

[Crossy]

A little competition for those advocating adding extra trains / reducing the headway.

 

No prizes other than the satisfaction but please answer the following questions:-

1. How much would it cost to reduce the peak-hour headway from the current 4 minutes (actually slightly better) to, say, 3 minutes?
2. How about 2 minutes?
3. What about increasing the trains to 5 cars?
4. Where would the budget come from?
5. If you let a contract 1st March 2017, when would you expect to see the fruits?

No exact answers, correct number of zeros would be close enough, oh, and justification for those numbers of course.

 

And, of course, I know those members who are in the industry, as they know me, so guys, you are excluded :)

 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

A little competition for those advocating adding extra trains / reducing the headway.

 

No prizes other than the satisfaction but please answer the following questions:-

1. How much would it cost to reduce the peak-hour headway from the current 4 minutes (actually slightly better) to, say, 3 minutes?
2. How about 2 minutes?
3. What about increasing the trains to 5 cars?
4. Where would the budget come from?
5. If you let a contract 1st March 2017, when would you expect to see the fruits?

No exact answers, correct number of zeros would be close enough, oh, and justification for those numbers of course.

 

And, of course, I know those members who are in the industry, as they know me, so guys, you are excluded :)

 

Crossy, if the budget is not there.. then it is just stupid to add extra passengers. 

 

Of course you don't have the trains right now.. but then why add passengers to a system already full without any forward planning.  Either don't add extra passengers (especially non paying) or add them after you improved your capacity. 

[Crossy]

@robblok zero argument from me Mate :)

 

It just grates when someone glibly suggests "adding trains", I usually wonder if they have any notion of the costs and timescales involved.

 

The "low-income" Mangmoom is one of the better ideas to come out of OTP, sadly they broke the design that the consultant came up with (and presented at a public-access workshop) as "too hard" (it wasn't) so it really won't make its potential, but it will work, eventually.

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, Crossy said:

@robblok zero argument from me Mate :)

 

It just grates when someone glibly suggests "adding trains", I usually wonder if they have any notion of the costs and timescales involved.

 

The "low-income" Mangmoom is one of the better ideas to come out of OTP, sadly they broke the design that the consultant came up with (and presented at a public-access workshop) as "too hard" (it wasn't) so it really won't make its potential, but it will work, eventually.

Crossy,

 

I understand that you can't just add extra trains. Ordering them, that takes time.. also it would be hard to integrate and would probably mean more expensive measures (security and otherwise). My point is if a system is already really full you either raise prices and or try to add extra capacity.

 

What I don't understand, the BTS is not cheap.. and its really full.. is it not running a profit.. and if so.. why don't use the profit to better the system.

[Crossy]

@robblokComment not aimed at you!

 

BTS cannot raise the fares, they are limited by BMA / MRTA rules (written into their operating contract).

 

Whilst they do make an operating profit it's not in the correct order of magnitude to buy sufficient trains at USD XX thousand/million/billion a pop, they're still paying for the last lot of (cheap) Chinese EMUs.

 

The secret is, as pretty well everywhere, government investment. Privately funded mass transit rarely, if ever, makes an overall profit (Hong Kong's MTRC is an exception, but they have a different business model). But the current (and previous) Thai government want to use the (proven dysfunctional in this particular field) PPP model.

 

[gdgbb]

43 minutes ago, robblok said:

Nope.. the whole fact is that if you give a lot of poor people access for free they will use it and add to the already crowded system. So either don't do it.. or do it and ad extra trains / wagons. 

No. it's not a fact, it's your opinion, there's a huge difference.

[robblok]

16 minutes ago, gdgbb said:

No. it's not a fact, it's your opinion, there's a huge difference.

 

What is not a fact ? That the system is already overcrowded.

 

Or that people who get a free card will use it ?

[gdgbb]

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

What is not a fact ? That the system is already overcrowded.

 

Or that people who get a free card will use it ?

What you said is not a fact, i.e..."the whole fact is that if you give a lot of poor people access for free they will use it".  That's just your opinion, they may use it, they may not.

Edited February 3, 2017 by gdgbb