Crash helmet campaign to be strengthened to promote bike safety

[Alan Deer]

On 2/6/2017 at 1:55 PM, mettech said:

HELMET OR NOT!

We all see a family of four on a motorbike one helmet wearing adult the rest hardly hang on to anything so the idea of wearing this is far out look at the USA they have  law of wearing helmet but not in all states so helmet save life or not what is the sense of becoming paraplegic because helmet save your life but not your day to day normal living ???

this is an irrational argument - you are trying to dichotomise the situation - non-helmet wearing causes a wide range of injuries from death THROUGH paraplegia to simple disfiguration - the choice is often not up to you in the final say. Wearing a helmet reduces the chances of ALL these results.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Alan Deer

[superal]

4 minutes ago, Alan Deer said:

this is an irrational argument - you are trying to dichotomise the situation - non-helmet wearing causes a wide range of injuries from death THROUGH paraplegia to simple disfiguration - the choice is often not up to you in the final say. Wearing a helmet reduces the chances of ALL these results.

and frees up hospital beds and doctors etc and if you find it difficult to abide by the laws of the country maybe you should be looking for another place to live that suits you .

[Alan Deer]

49 minutes ago, superal said:

and frees up hospital beds and doctors etc and if you find it difficult to abide by the laws of the country maybe you should be looking for another place to live that suits you .

People with head injuries in hospital put up the cost of insurance for others..........and then we have to look after the remnants - the patient and any dependants etc etc.......no-one is an island and any medical care costs are reflected in ALL our premiums...

[chrissables]

4 hours ago, overherebc said:

Last things I want to do are tell Thai people what to do and turn Thailand into my country.

I can see a difference between choice and informed choice.

I would hazard a guess that many fatalities due to head injures happen to children and youngsters riding motorbikes. It's most likely those kids have no concept or awareness of their head hitting the road or other objects at any speed.

Law enforcement may or may not work but showing the results of damage to the human head when helmetless might help.

Just to repeat, I don't want to change Thailand but informing people about a better way to take care of yourself, I see nothing wrong with it.

Actually, if governments focused on stopping the cause of accidents rather than persecuting the potential victims of accidents, i would be more likely to show more understanding.

 

Helmet use in the UK, and i am sure many other countries was brought into law as a money saving scheme due to insurance company pressure. Nothing to do with saving lives, or saving lives was a secondary  consideration.

[chrissables]

1 hour ago, Alan Deer said:

It is irresponsible not to wear a helmet and one shouldn't need to explain why.

Once you are an adult it should be your own choice, it is a victimless crime.

[chrissables]

47 minutes ago, Alan Deer said:

People with head injuries in hospital put up the cost of insurance for others..........and then we have to look after the remnants - the patient and any dependants etc etc.......no-one is an island and any medical care costs are reflected in ALL our premiums...

No they don't! Not in Thailand. 

[overherebc]

7 minutes ago, chrissables said:

Once you are an adult it should be your own choice, it is a victimless crime.

Well,,,, sort of victimless if you don't think of the time and money spent on repairing a broken head that could be spent on others that require emergency treatment through no fault of their own.

As an adult and if you make the choice to ride with the wind in your hair, and I know the appeal of that, then you should be liable for all costs incurred fixing your busted head and should be willing to pay those costs. 

Riding a cross desert highway in USA without a lid really does appeal and I can agree with it, but, we are talking about Thailand and traffic where a spill at any speed can put you into contact with concrete kerbs, lamp-posts, hell you name it.

The wide open road with minimum traffic USA and the like, I'll join you as long as I have good eye protection.

The least I'll go for here is my flip face BMW helmet.

Again as an adult you can make up your mind, as a youngster you should be informed of the consequences of your actions and decisions concerning motorbikes.

?

[chrissables]

11 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Well,,,, sort of victimless if you don't think of the time and money spent on repairing a broken head that could be spent on others that require emergency treatment through no fault of their own.

As an adult and if you make the choice to ride with the wind in your hair, and I know the appeal of that, then you should be liable for all costs incurred fixing your busted head and should be willing to pay those costs. 

Riding a cross desert highway in USA without a lid really does appeal and I can agree with it, but, we are talking about Thailand and traffic where a spill at any speed can put you into contact with concrete kerbs, lamp-posts, hell you name it.

The wide open road with minimum traffic USA and the like, I'll join you as long as I have good eye protection.

The least I'll go for here is my flip face BMW helmet.

Again as an adult you can make up your mind, as a youngster you should be informed of the consequences of your actions and decisions concerning motorbikes.

?

Living in Thailand, i of course pay for all medical bills :)

[overherebc]

30 minutes ago, chrissables said:

Living in Thailand, i of course pay for all medical bills :)

As I do mate. All I can say is I am still the handsome biker devil I was in my twenties and my head is still in one piece because of skid-lids. ?

Would be nice to think a lot of kids out here could say the same thing in forty years time.

 

[diehard60]

THIS WILL  NOT WORK IN ESAN. 95% OF ALL MOTOR BIKE DRIVERS ARE ILLEGAL. AND I MIGHT ADD DO NT RESPECT THE COPS ANYWAY.

[Alan Deer]

3 hours ago, chrissables said:

Once you are an adult it should be your own choice, it is a victimless crime.

Any adult would realise it is in no way ever a victimless crime - grow up and work it out,

[wotsdermatter]

On 2/6/2017 at 8:09 AM, fullcave said:

In Europe, this would be considered attempted murder or child endangerment, here they call it safety first.

 

 

 

 

Sorry,  fullcave but I believe you have got the last part wrong.  Surely, your quotation should read, "...here they call it safety last."

[chrissables]

11 hours ago, Alan Deer said:

Any adult would realise it is in no way ever a victimless crime - grow up and work it out,

I seem to get a lot of stupid smug replies from you, which would be fine, IF you would explain the thought process put into your replies.

 

A victimless crime is just that! A crime without victims. If i ride down to 7-11 now with no helmet. The law would have been broken. Who is the victim?

Edited February 7, 2017 by chrissables
edit

[Alan Deer]

44 minutes ago, chrissables said:

I seem to get a lot of stupid smug replies from you, which would be fine, IF you would explain the thought process put into your replies.

 

A victimless crime is just that! A crime without victims. If i ride down to 7-11 now with no helmet. The law would have been broken. Who is the victim?

THere's nothing "smug" about my replies - I'm suggesting that any reasonably intelligent person would already be aware of why it is not "victimless" - iI would suggest before you make more of a fool of yourself, you sit down and seriously consider the ramifications of not wearing a helmet - the answer is so obvious I would think almost anyone could see for themselves the problems with your hypothesis.

 

Your argument of riding to the 7/11 is fallacious and further demonstrates how little you understand about road safety especially in relation to the wearing of helmets.

I think that before posting on this topic you should inform yourself of the issues and that would stop you from posting such nonsense.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Alan Deer

[chrissables]

Just now, Alan Deer said:

THere's nothing "smug" about my replies - I'm suggesting that any reasonably intelligent person would already be aware of why it is not "victimless" - iI would suggest before you make more of a fool of yourself, you sit down and seriously consider the ramifications of not wearing a helmet - the answer is so obvious I would think almost anyone could see for themselves the problems with your hypothesis.

 

Another smug reply, again not answering my question. In the scenario i gave you, who is the victim?

 

 

[Alan Deer]

1 minute ago, chrissables said:

Another smug reply, again not answering my question. In the scenario i gave you, who is the victim?

 

 

If i wanted to argue with a 12year old, I'd get a job at a school.

[chrissables]

4 minutes ago, Alan Deer said:

THere's nothing "smug" about my replies - I'm suggesting that any reasonably intelligent person would already be aware of why it is not "victimless" - iI would suggest before you make more of a fool of yourself, you sit down and seriously consider the ramifications of not wearing a helmet - the answer is so obvious I would think almost anyone could see for themselves the problems with your hypothesis.

 

Your argument of riding to the 7/11 is fallacious and further demonstrates how little you understand about road safety especially in relation to the wearing of helmets.

I think that before posting on this topic you should inform yourself of the issues and that would stop you from posting such nonsense.

Another smug answer, totally avoiding the question.

 

It appears you just fail to grasp the concept of a victimless crime.

[chrissables]

1 minute ago, Alan Deer said:

If i wanted to argue with a 12year old, I'd get a job at a school.

And one more.

 

Smug, and full of your own importance, while still not answering the question made.

[DILLIGAD]

Every weekday morning, more than 100 bikes are parked on the road outside Prakhonchai Bus Station  by schoolkids from the nearby school. They are not allowed to take the bikes into school grounds unless thay have a licence and wear helmets.What a simple task it would be for the Police to be near the bus station at 4pm-after school -  and stop all the kids without helmets being worn, fine them and confiscate the bikes for 1 week. They are a sitting target! But of course that is too much trouble for our mighty Police, even though they could probably pocket half of what they fined the kids. 
 
It is time for everyone to start caring and do something about the horrific accidents that occur daily. 

Your being logical again Nick!
Stop it and go sit in the corner.


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[DILLIGAD]

The police are not interested in enforcing the law on this subject. 
Untill that changes,nothing else will change.if it doesn't worry the police,and the Thais riding bikes without helmets,we should I worry.
i will keep wearing mine.

Child deaths don't worry you then?


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[Fookhaht]

On 2/6/2017 at 7:41 AM, trogers said:

They would ask this question - Why is a crash helmet needed on a head that is harder?

On 2/6/2017 at 7:44 AM, Fookhaht said:

Well, in the case of that blue "egg shell" helmet in the photo, your question is a valid one.


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On 2/6/2017 at 7:48 AM, trogers said:

 

The answer is very clear - To contain the scrambled brain matter!

It wouldn't even do that very well.  

[Titan1962]

20 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:

Child deaths don't worry you then?


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.No one likes to see any deaths on the road. But I am not their parents. I am not the police, And they have a brain and see the carnage on the roads in Thailand,just like you and I. The choice is theirs. Ride safe and wear a helmet. If you don't ,you stand the chance of paying the price.

[Odysseus123]

28 minutes ago, Titan1962 said:

.No one likes to see any deaths on the road. But I am not their parents. I am not the police, And they have a brain and see the carnage on the roads in Thailand,just like you and I. The choice is theirs. Ride safe and wear a helmet. If you don't ,you stand the chance of paying the price.

Yes-I completely agree with you.

Two years ago, and after my step-niece was splattered all over the road (no helmet), I purchased 6 helmets for 5,000 Baht and distributed them to the family.Within 6 months four had been lost or misplaced,the other one lasted less than a year and only old MIL wears hers now from which I concluded that she is the only one with any  brains in the family.

 

I have informed them all that if they are killed on their scooters and are not wearing helmets or in cars where they are not wearing seat belts then I will not be attending their funerals nor financially contributing to them.

 

If they behave like brainless numptys-it is their responsibility and theirs alone.

[piersbeckett]

19 hours ago, overherebc said:

As I do mate. All I can say is I am still the handsome biker devil I was in my twenties and my head is still in one piece because of skid-lids. ?

Would be nice to think a lot of kids out here could say the same thing in forty years time.

 

The crime, in itself is, I would say, victim-less.

 

In the event however of an incident or accident whereby the rider, that is the person responsible for the safe delivery of him/herself and any pillion passenger from departure to arrival whilst in control of the motorbike, has a wider responsibility towards society as a whole in that he/she should not compromise the health service of that society by adding the unnecessary risk of that service having to foot the hospital/medical bill.

 

In the event, however of adults of sound mind agreeing either directly or by implication to travel at their own risk without wearing a legal helmet thereby losing any right to the society's medical care scheme, in other words by so doing they (both rider and passenger) agree to pay for their own medical treatment in its entirety and that they also concede to the subsequent unavailability of any insurance cover regarding medical treatment in respect of such incidents/accidents then I'd say it would remain a victim-less crime.

 

I would add that any child or minor should IMV be compelled by law to wear a legal safety helmet whilst riding or when a passenger and that responsibility should rest with the adult rider or when the adult is the passenger.

 

There should also IMV be an age qualification for being a passenger on a motorbike and a limit of two persons i.e. the rider and only one passenger.

Edited February 8, 2017 by piersbeckett
changing tense

[superal]

6 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Yes-I completely agree with you.

Two years ago, and after my step-niece was splattered all over the road (no helmet), I purchased 6 helmets for 5,000 Baht and distributed them to the family.Within 6 months four had been lost or misplaced,the other one lasted less than a year and only old MIL wears hers now from which I concluded that she is the only one with any  brains in the family.

 

I have informed them all that if they are killed on their scooters and are not wearing helmets or in cars where they are not wearing seat belts then I will not be attending their funerals nor financially contributing to them.

 

If they behave like brainless numptys-it is their responsibility and theirs alone.

You have certainly done all that you can and if they do not heed your advice there is nothing more that you can do . Why there is no strict law enforcement on wearing helmets , police turning a blind most of the time unless there is a purge , is a crime in itself and the police are as guilty as the law breakers . 

[Titan1962]

15 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Yes-I completely agree with you.

Two years ago, and after my step-niece was splattered all over the road (no helmet), I purchased 6 helmets for 5,000 Baht and distributed them to the family.Within 6 months four had been lost or misplaced,the other one lasted less than a year and only old MIL wears hers now from which I concluded that she is the only one with any  brains in the family.

 

I have informed them all that if they are killed on their scooters and are not wearing helmets or in cars where they are not wearing seat belts then I will not be attending their funerals nor financially contributing to them.

 

If they behave like brainless numptys-it is their responsibility and theirs alone.

When I first meet my GF we drove from sisaket to BKK. had the two young kids in the car. After about 1 hr into the trip I could not stand it anymore. The kids behaved like monkeys. In the front seat in the back seat. Lying forward near the gear leaver. No reprimands from mom.

i pulled up at amazon. Pulled the mom to the side and told her the kids stay in the back with the seat belts on.she looked bemused. I told her I would not drive the car unless this happened. She explained to the kids what might happen if they are climbing around,and if they are in the front without seat belts.she showed them physically what would happen in an accident. They kids stayed in the back with the seat belts on all the way there and back. Now they don't even attempt to get in the front. They know their place,and the consequences of not following the rules.

So I think it boils down to the parents and education,and penalties for not following the laws. Plus just good old common sense.

[Odysseus123]

34 minutes ago, Titan1962 said:

When I first meet my GF we drove from sisaket to BKK. had the two young kids in the car. After about 1 hr into the trip I could not stand it anymore. The kids behaved like monkeys. In the front seat in the back seat. Lying forward near the gear leaver. No reprimands from mom.

i pulled up at amazon. Pulled the mom to the side and told her the kids stay in the back with the seat belts on.she looked bemused. I told her I would not drive the car unless this happened. She explained to the kids what might happen if they are climbing around,and if they are in the front without seat belts.she showed them physically what would happen in an accident. They kids stayed in the back with the seat belts on all the way there and back. Now they don't even attempt to get in the front. They know their place,and the consequences of not following the rules.

So I think it boils down to the parents and education,and penalties for not following the laws. Plus just good old common sense.

I can clearly identify with your story because the same thing has happened to me with  7 year totally undisciplined little horror who thought it was fun to bounce around near the gear stick and control column.My Thai failed me at this point so I asked my wife to stop the car (7/11) and read them all the riot act.Net result was bafflement/confusion and anger that anyone had sought to put any limits at all on their anarchic behaviour.

 

You want to live in personal anarchy-you may as well expire in anarchy,I suppose.

 

Again I agree with you about the role of Gov't,police and education in all of this but,in the last analysis these people do not live in Shangri-La, in a strange mystical far of land, and should be perfectly capable of performing a not particularly sophisticated series of risk assessments about their own behaviour relating to road safety.They see the results of the carnage everyday,either by direct experience or by their own social media, and apparently It matters nought to them.

 

Oh..and I expanded my funeral ban to the drunkards in the family as well.At New Years I saw a pick up truck  full of Thais miss the curb and slither down an embankment after attending an early morning wedding breakfast.Fortunately no-one was injured. but the driver (BIL)and half the passengers were well stewed.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Odysseus123
spelling.

[DILLIGAD]

You have certainly done all that you can and if they do not heed your advice there is nothing more that you can do . Why there is no strict law enforcement on wearing helmets , police turning a blind most of the time unless there is a purge , is a crime in itself and the police are as guilty as the law breakers . 

It is commonplace to see police on bikes with helmet-less passengers and their own helmets not buckled up (so useless).


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[Moonmoon]

Good Idea! Can I add 1 more to this campaign? DOn't send your kids to buy groceries at 7-11 riding against traffic on the bike campaign. Thank You !

[01322521959]

I see fewer riders wearing helmets now in my soi and even on the main roads of Bangkok than I did in the past. Nice idea but it won't be enforced by the BIB.

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