Exclusive - Trump border 'wall' to cost $21.6 billion, take 3.5 years to build: Homeland Security internal report

[webfact]

Exclusive - Trump border 'wall' to cost $21.6 billion, take 3.5 years to build: Homeland Security internal report

By Julia Edwards Ainsley

REUTERS

 

DAY 6 / JANUARY 25: President Trump signed directives to build a wall along the 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexican border and strip federal funding from "sanctuary" cities that shield illegal immigrants, as he charged ahead with sweeping and divisive plans to transform how the United States deals with immigration and national security. REUTERS/Jose Luis Gonzalez

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s “wall” along the U.S.-Mexico border would be a series of fences and walls that would cost as much as $21.6 billion, and take more than three years to construct, based on a U.S. Department of Homeland Security internal report seen by Reuters on Thursday.

 

The report’s estimated price-tag is much higher than a $12-billion figure cited by Trump in his campaign and estimates as high as $15 billion from Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

 

The report is expected to be presented to Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary John Kelly in coming days, although the administration will not necessarily take actions it recommends.

 

The plan lays out what it would take to seal the border in three phases of construction of fences and walls covering just over 1,250 miles (2,000 km) by the end of 2020.

 

With 654 miles (1,046 km) of the border already fortified, the new construction would extend almost the length of the entire border.

 

Many cost estimates and timelines have been floated since Trump campaigned on the promise of building a wall. The report seen by Reuters is the work of a group commissioned by Kelly as a final step before moving forward with requesting U.S. taxpayer funds from Congress and getting started on construction.

 

A DHS spokeswoman said the department does "not comment on or confirm the potential existence of pre-decisional, deliberative documents."

 

A White House spokeswoman said it would be “premature” to comment on a report that has not officially been presented to the president.

 

The report said the first phase would be the smallest, targeting sections covering 26 miles (42 km) near San Diego, California; El Paso, Texas; and in Texas's Rio Grande Valley.

 

The report assumes DHS would get funding from Congress by April or May, giving the department sufficient time to secure contractors and begin construction by September. Trump has said Congress should fund the wall upfront, but that Mexico will reimburse U.S. taxpayers. Mexico has said it will not pay.

 

Several U.S. congressional delegations are visiting the border this month to assess funding needs, according to several people familiar with the travel plans.

 

The report shows the U.S. government has begun seeking waivers to address environmental laws on building in some areas. It also shows the government has begun working with existing contractors and planning steel purchases for the project.

 

Trump told law enforcement officials on Wednesday, "The wall is getting designed right now."

 

The report accounted for the time and cost of acquiring private land, one reason for its steep price increase compared to estimates from Trump and members of Congress.

 

Bernstein Research, an investment research group that tracks material costs, has said that uncertainties around the project could drive its cost up to as much as $25 billion.

 

The second phase of construction proposed in the report would cover 151 miles (242 km) of border in and around the Rio Grande Valley; Laredo, Texas; Tucson, Arizona; El Paso, Texas and Big Bend, Texas. The third phase would cover an unspecified 1,080 miles (1,728 km), essentially sealing off the entire U.S.-Mexico border.

 

BARRIERS TO CONSTRUCTION

 

The report lays out costs to cover the border with barriers, but funding constraints and legal battles are likely to place limits on those plans.

 

It also does not account for major physical barriers, like mountains, in areas where it would not be feasible to build.

 

A source familiar with the plans said DHS may have to go to court to seek eminent domain in order to acquire some of the private land needed to cover the final and most ambitious phase.

 

The first phase, estimated to cost only $360 million, could be a relatively easy way for Trump to satisfy supporters eager to see him make good on his campaign promises to limit illegal migration. But the rest of the construction will be markedly more expensive, covering a much larger stretch of land, much of it privately owned or inaccessible by road.

 

In addition to seeking eminent domain and environmental waivers, the U.S. government would also have to meet the requirements of the International Boundary and Water Commission, a U.S.-Mexico pact over shared waters. The report estimated that agreement alone could bring the cost from $11 million per mile to $15 million per mile in one area.

 

(Reporting by Julia Edwards Ainsley; Editing by Kevin Drawbaugh and Alistair Bell)

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2017-02-10

[jackh]

Cheap at half the price!  BUILD THAT WALL!

[alanrchase]

Seem to recall Trump starting at 4 billion and anyone who said different was stupid.

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[hdkane]

Something...a barrier of some sort...is needed...people only focus on the poor mexicans who work in the usa...and forget the citizens who are also human and need services...

 

the average benefit that an illegal immigrant takes from the us govt is about 10000 usd...it's 15000 if they are a kid going to public school...because illegals don't pay taxes, except for sales tax, an individual must purchase about 200,000 worth of goods to offset the benefits they take...i know no one who spends that kind of money as an illegal...there are about 30 million illegals, so that's about 360,000,000,000 usd a year that is lost...anyone who thinks the wall is too expensive needs to realize that  virtually ALL of the social welfare programs that are becoming insolvent could be replenished if the us govt can get this problem under control...

[Tchooptip]

A moat ...why not with crocodiles, would be cheaper

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

58 minutes ago, hdkane said:

Something...a barrier of some sort...is needed...people only focus on the poor mexicans who work in the usa...and forget the citizens who are also human and need services...

 

the average benefit that an illegal immigrant takes from the us govt is about 10000 usd...it's 15000 if they are a kid going to public school...because illegals don't pay taxes, except for sales tax, an individual must purchase about 200,000 worth of goods to offset the benefits they take...i know no one who spends that kind of money as an illegal...there are about 30 million illegals, so that's about 360,000,000,000 usd a year that is lost...anyone who thinks the wall is too expensive needs to realize that  virtually ALL of the social welfare programs that are becoming insolvent could be replenished if the us govt can get this problem under control...

 

So what - you just make stuff up now? The idea of presenting a fact based rationale is something too difficult for you? You compare an unknowable figure for the cost of building (not including its operation and maintenance) a Wall to a completely fabricated and patently bogus number created by multiplying an absurdly false number of undocumented immigrants with an assumed, un-supported assertion about the dollar value of 'benefits' provided to undocumented immigrants.

 

The US does not lose 360bn every year in providing 'benefits' to undocumented immigrants.

 

What you have done is the very definition of intellectual self abuse.

 

Politifact concurs that the assertion that around 40% of undocumented immigrants arrive by air and overstay their visas. http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2013/sep/06/john-carter/john-carter-claim-40-percent-nations-illegal-resid/ 40% is a number large enough to drive a massive hole in your flimsy statement. Is it any wonder that many people are just fed up with being treated like idiots by the Alt Right anti-immigration bigots with this crap being pushed at them? Anti Immigrant bigoted hysteria is self defeating. The new generation of voting citizens reject your kind of BS.

 

"Generational differences in attitudes about immigrants have been evident since the mid-1990s, but they too have grown wider.

As of March, 76% of Millennials say immigrants strengthen the country, up from 59% in early 2013. Among those in Generation X, there has been an 11-point increase in positive views of immigrants since then (60% now, 49% then)."

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/15/americans-views-of-immigrants-marked-by-widening-partisan-generational-divides/

 

'Illegal Immigrants' cannot exist in nature. It is unnatural and illogical to say that a human being is illegal. Undocumented immigrants may have broken some codes -primarily civil - but they cannot be an illegal person. To argue that they are illegal people is a violation of their human rights. In any case, with one signature, all 5 billion (or is it 100 gazillion) "illegal Mexicans" in the US can become legal. Reagan did it.

 

And you wonder why people snigger at your sort.

[uptheos]

Going to be some poor old sanctuary cities.

 

It;s cheap to secure that border......start building!!

[alanrchase]

Going to be some poor old sanctuary cities.
 
It;s cheap to secure that border......start building!!

What do you think you will get? 2,000 miles of a big buitiful wall? The cost is rising and the wall is getting shorter by the day.

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[uptheos]

1 minute ago, alanrchase said:

 

What do you think you will get? 2,000 miles of a big buitiful wall? The cost is rising and the wall is getting shorter by the day.

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Well we have to try and keep the deplorable's out if we can.

[alanrchase]

Well we have to try and keep the deplorable's out if we can.

Or keep them in?

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[uptheos]

6 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

 

Or keep them in?

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Aah so you do agree with Hillary?

Those lemons still sour?

Edited February 10, 2017 by uptheos

[jollyhangmon]

Money wasted! First pictures already appeared of a Mexican genius thought to have found a secret anti-wall-weapon ...

 

 

 

[alanrchase]

Aah so you do agree with Hillary?
Those lemons still sour?

Not my country. Hillary lost. Accept it.

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[spidermike007]

No. Double that figure. $40 billion is the rock bottom number. Consider the numbers. He is talking about a monumental expense, and it is going to be alot higher than he says. As always, he is citing alternative facts. Just the cost of concrete alone is going to be $9 billion. And how on earth is he going to build a wall over the Rio Grande Gorge?

 

Consider Israel’s experience. It has built 320 miles of a planned 480-mile barrier in and around the West Bank. Only three to 10 percent of the completed portion is concrete. The cost so far: $2.6 billion, more than twice as much per mile as the fences along the U.S.-Mexico border, even though labor in Israel is slightly cheaper.

That fits with what structural engineers have told me: the total cost of highways and other megascale projects in the U.S. is generally two to three times the material costs. That makes a 1,000-mile wall pencil out at $27 billion to $40 billion.

= up to $40 billion

Trump might say it would be worth the cost since border crossings are out of control. However, because of several factors, including improvements in the Mexican economy and increases in Border Patrol staffing, fewer people are making the attempt. Officers caught 331,000 people crossing the Mexican border in fiscal 2015, less than one-fifth the number in 2000.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602494/bad-math-props-up-trumps-border-wall/

[Andaman Al]

But Trump plans to reduce costs by using cheap Chinese steel and concrete and a workforce of 3-5 million illegal Mexicans and dead people from California (if the dead people can go and vote then they can sure as hell build walls).

[Andaman Al]

I just started a company in the US called Fences R Us if anyone wants to buy shares early contact me, it will go public soon.

[mtls2005]

Who cares? 

 

Mexico will pay for it.

[attrayant]

What Geology Has to Say About Building a 1,000-Mile Border Wall

 

Quote

 

Before a single brick is laid, teams of scientists assemble on scene to investigate a litany of details, from bedrock depth to soil chemistry. In the case of the border wall, they would have to traverse the entire length of the proposed path, working in segments to evaluate the region, collect data, develop plans. (This necessity makes the process of erecting walls—especially ones spanning thousands of miles—more challenging than building, say, a 95-story skyscraper.)

 

“Quite frankly, that would take years to do,” says Clendenin, who specializes in linear projects like railways and roads. McKinnon agrees. One project she worked on, a three-mile stretch of pipeline, is now on year five of field surveys.  Yet Trump’s order appears to allow a mere six months for all surveying and planning efforts.

 

 

My prediction:  Trump will skip the years of surveying and quickly & messily plug various easy-to-reach spots with a combination of cheap walls an fences, then claim success on a completed project and a fulfilled campaign promise.  Immigrants will continue to flow into the country by air, which is how most of the current undocumented foreigners got in - by coming in legally and overstaying their visas.

 

In other words, the party of "fiscal responsibility" we will end up spending north of $30 billion to achieve almost no effect on illegal immigration.

[alanrchase]

What Geology Has to Say About Building a 1,000-Mile Border Wall
 

 
Before a single brick is laid, teams of scientists assemble on scene to investigate a litany of details, from bedrock depth to soil chemistry. In the case of the border wall, they would have to traverse the entire length of the proposed path, working in segments to evaluate the region, collect data, develop plans. (This necessity makes the process of erecting walls—especially ones spanning thousands of miles—more challenging than building, say, a 95-story skyscraper.)
 
“Quite frankly, that would take years to do,” says Clendenin, who specializes in linear projects like railways and roads. McKinnon agrees. One project she worked on, a three-mile stretch of pipeline, is now on year five of field surveys.  Yet Trump’s order appears to allow a mere six months for all surveying and planning efforts.
 

 
My prediction:  Trump will skip the years of surveying and quickly & messily plug various easy-to-reach spots with a combination of cheap walls an fences, then claim success on a completed project and a fulfilled campaign promise.  Immigrants will continue to flow into the country by air, which is how most of the current undocumented foreigners got in - by coming in legally and overstaying their visas.
 
In other words, the party of "fiscal responsibility" we will end up spending north of $30 billion to achieve almost no effect on illegal immigration.



Why are you worried about the cost? Mexico will pay.

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[attrayant]

So massive, wasteful ineffective projects are okay as long as it's somebody else's money?

 

Besides, Mexico won't pay.

Edited February 10, 2017 by attrayant

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, jackh said:

Cheap at half the price!  BUILD THAT WALL!

Don't you mean "cheap at twice the price"?

 

Actually, it's ridiculous at any price

[elgordo38]

5 hours ago, alanrchase said:

Seem to recall Trump starting at 4 billion and anyone who said different was stupid.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

Stupid is as stupid does. 

[elgordo38]

I read somewhere that because of the uptick in the Mexican economy (the gushing sound of jobs heading south) that more Mexicans are leaving the US than coming in. Ah yes Google is my friend. Maybe the wall will  prove counter productive as it will STOP Mexicans from returning home. Oh well campaign promises must be kept at any COST.

Study finds more Mexicans leaving the US than coming. ... During the same five years, 870,000 Mexicans came to the United States, resulting in a net flow to Mexico of about 140,000. The desire to reunite families is the main reason more Mexicans are moving south than north, Pew found.Nov 19, 2015

[elgordo38]

6 hours ago, jackh said:

Cheap at half the price!  BUILD THAT WALL!

Twice the price

[elgordo38]

5 hours ago, hdkane said:

Something...a barrier of some sort...is needed...people only focus on the poor mexicans who work in the usa...and forget the citizens who are also human and need services...

 

the average benefit that an illegal immigrant takes from the us govt is about 10000 usd...it's 15000 if they are a kid going to public school...because illegals don't pay taxes, except for sales tax, an individual must purchase about 200,000 worth of goods to offset the benefits they take...i know no one who spends that kind of money as an illegal...there are about 30 million illegals, so that's about 360,000,000,000 usd a year that is lost...anyone who thinks the wall is too expensive needs to realize that  virtually ALL of the social welfare programs that are becoming insolvent could be replenished if the us govt can get this problem under control...

Seems the wall will be counter productive. You will be stopping people that want to go back. Politicians campaign promises filled at any price.

Study finds more Mexicans leaving the US than coming. ... During the same five years, 870,000 Mexicans came to the United States, resulting in a net flow to Mexico of about 140,000. The desire to reunite families is the main reason more Mexicans are moving south than north, Pew found.Nov 19, 2015

[WaywardWind]

No worries - just head to the nearest IKEA:

 

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

The first phase, estimated to cost only $360 million

The government is currently into the 2nd quarter of fiscal year 2017 whose budget was approved by Congress last year. So the question not addressed is where is Congress going to find money just for the design and construction of the wall/fence?

 

Some scenarios: Trump reduces current government funding by hiring freeze (done), cut various social programs, delay infrastructure improvements and/or reduce military spending; borrow the money from issuance of Treasury Bonds; immediate tariff on Mexican imports (paid by Mexican exporters); steal funds being wired to Mexico by Mexicans working in the US; etc.

Focus only on 1st the first phase for funding. Other phases to be funded in the FY 2018 budget.

 

There is mention that the wall design has already begun. Likely that cost is off-budget. The government has limited ability to move funds between programs and departments without congressional approval. The laws require transparency and a budgetary check & balance process. So likely Trump may have violated laws, albeit the Republican-controlled Congress will turn a blind-eye.

 

 

 

[daveAustin]

I don't get all the invective from the anti-Trump wallies. Who cares about the cost. Along with curbs on immigration, the idea is not a new one; successive presidents have ruminated extending the wall. People build walls on their property to keep out burglars all the time. Don't see the big deal. Folk are up in arms not because of the idea, but because who is behind it this time. All he's trying to do is to stop his country rotting from the inside out and to protect Americans. But the leftie detractors would sooner cut off their nose to spite their face and let everyone in, even if it means putting themselves and their kin at risk.

Edited February 10, 2017 by daveAustin

[alanrchase]

I don't get all the invective from the anti-Trump wallies. Who cares about the cost. Along with curbs on immigration, the idea is not a new one; successive presidents have ruminated extending the wall. People build walls on their property to keep out burglars all the time. Don't see the big deal. Folk are up in arms not because of the idea, but because who is behind it this time. All he's trying to do is to stop his country rotting from the inside out and to protect Americans. But the leftie detractors would sooner cut off their nose to spite their face and let everyone in, even if it means putting themselves and their kin at risk.

I will never consider a holiday in America again. Awful place according to you. Thanks for the Truth.

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[Reigntax]

The chinese have been building east to west, north to south for 1000's of years  and look at the fine state if government they ended up with.

 

I can see the great wall of Thailand coming next. In fact i can see the smile on the PM's face making the announcement. "We need this wall to be the greatest wall in any Asean country".