Want to be treated more fairly? Write to your ambassador!!

[Xobtsiwt]

Why isn't Thailand more like the West?

 

Episode 3,094,561 in an ongoing series.

[tgeezer]

"Do you get the same treatment here"? 
Of course not, unlike a lot of Thaivisa posters, I do not think we get a fair deal from immigration, ie what happens if you reach your eighties and nineties and are not well enough or fit enough to do border hops? So if you are a member of the "if you don't like it go home brigade" your comments are not welcome as Thailand is still a better country in many ways than the UK.
 

If you are that old then you shouldn't be here except as a retiree. Allowing border hops is more than a fair deal since it acknowledges that you can still live here even when unqualified to do so. .
However the need to do border hops must surely outweigh all other ways in which Thailand is better than UK, especially if one is unable through infirmity to do them.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[BKKBodhisattva]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

 One of the nationalities that buys most houses in London,are the Thais,

  What many farangs fail to notice is that approximately 10-15 % of Thais are very,very rich,far more so than the majority of farangs.

That's just a "fact" you invented while sat on the toilet.

Thais are not among the largest group of foreign buyers of UK property.

The point being made - clearly it's lost on some people - is that there are a lot more Brits who can afford to buy land/property in Thailand than there are Thais who can afford to buy land/property in the UK and Brits don't have to be "rich" to do so.

 

[BKKBodhisattva]

42 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

If the Thai government were fair, they could allow you to own one small average family house on a small plot of land, not buying up large mansions and acres of land.

The Thai government are only interested in our money, nothing else.

Why should the Thai authorities indulge certain farangs' obsession with owning land/property?

A lot of Thais are already priced out of their own real estate market.

Why push prices further out of their reach by adding farang money into the mix?

If it's such a bug, there are plenty of other countries where foreign ownership of land is allowed

 

49 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"Do you get the same treatment here"? 

Of course not, unlike a lot of Thaivisa posters, I do not think we get a fair deal from immigration, ie what happens if you reach your eighties and nineties and are not well enough or fit enough to do border hops? So if you are a member of the "if you don't like it go home brigade" your comments are not welcome as Thailand is still a better country in many ways than the UK.

 

If you reach your 80s or 90s and are here on a retirement visa or extension, why would you be doing border hops?

[NoshowJones]

15 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

If you are that old then you shouldn't be here except as a retiree. Allowing border hops is more than a fair deal since it acknowledges that you can still live here even when unqualified to do so. .
However the need to do border hops must surely outweigh all other ways in which Thailand is better than UK, especially if one is unable through infirmity to do them.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

"Allowing border hops is more than a fair deal", tell that to the families of the people who have died because they were forced to do an in and out border hop.

Would it not be common sense for the Thai government to just charge the border hoppers a fee similar to what it would cost them to border hop? But again

when was Thailand and common sense compatible?

[BKKBodhisattva]

30 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"We all knew the rules & regs before we settled here", perhaps, but did the immigration rules not change drastically over the last ten years?

I personally know one chap who lived here on tourist visas and bought a house for himself and his girlfriend, in her name of course, he did not want to get married, he is now living in a neighbouring country having lost his house. Like thousands of others at that time, he had no idea that he would no longer be allowed to live on tourist visas.

 

I am not saying that people should be allowed to live permanently here on tourist visas, but this chap should not have been forced to lose his house, there should have been other options open to him, and I don't want to hear rubbish like if he cannot afford to have 800.000 Baht in his bank, he should not have been here in the first place.

He made a stupid life decision and bought a house in his girlfriend's name. Technically, it wasn't his house so he didn't lose it.

The authorities can't be expected to protect fools from themselves........ especially foreign fools.

He took a punt on the Thai authorities continuing to turn a blind eye to people living here on B2B tourist visas.

He lost that punt

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, BKKBodhisattva said:

Why should the Thai authorities indulge certain farangs' obsession with owning land/property?

A lot of Thais are already priced out of their own real estate market.

Why push prices further out of their reach by adding farang money into the mix?

If it's such a bug, there are plenty of other countries where foreign ownership of land is allowed

 

If you reach your 80s or 90s and are here on a retirement visa or extension, why would you be doing border hops?

What if you are on a multiple entry marriage visa, and don't trust Thailand banks enough to have 400.000 Baht in the bank?

 

[tgeezer]

possum1931 I meant for people living in Thailand without informing the authorities. I see your point, since they have allowed this to go on they have accepted that people do in fact live here, when those people age and become infirm the authorities should perhaps make provision for them.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[NoshowJones]

9 minutes ago, BKKBodhisattva said:

He made a stupid life decision and bought a house in his girlfriend's name. Technically, it wasn't his house so he didn't lose it.

The authorities can't be expected to protect fools from themselves........ especially foreign fools.

He took a punt on the Thai authorities continuing to turn a blind eye to people living here on B2B tourist visas.

He lost that punt

Your post is a load of nonsense, and never mind your stupid technicalities, so you are saying that myself and thousands of other expats made a stupid life

decision by buying our houses in our wifes or girlfriends names. Yes, you do have to take some chances in life, but that does not excuse the behaviour of the

Thai government in this situation.

[Pdaz]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

 One of the nationalities that buys most houses in London,are the Thais,and I!m not talking 5million bht houses, many are £10 million. As for Thai tourist,I do not know the figures, though I did notice on my last visit to the UK, a large group of Thai tourist in York,and in Oxford 100-200 Thai school children entering one the collages. My Thai wife spoke to a few of them and they confirmed they were in fact part of a school holiday group. 

  What many farangs fail to notice is that approximately 10-15 % of Thais are very,very rich,far more so than the majority of farangs.

Yep. I recently spent the morning looking for furniture at CDC in BKK. Amazed ( and delighted) to see a new Porsche 911 GT3-RS parked out front. This is a pretty rare car to sight even in the UK or the US. It sells for around 30 million Baht in Thailand, plus the price of the "beautiful" number plate... The following day I saw a second one for sale online again in BKK..

Yes the majority of Thais are just scraping a living ( similar to the majority of Westerners in their countries ) But some here are massively wealthy. You think the 40 and 50+ million baht houses for sale in BKK are aimed at for foreigners ?  I doubt it when the billboards are only written in Thai and supposedly foreigners cannot own houses. Whereas the London property market is dominated by foreign ownership.

 

 

 

 

[impulse]

20 hours ago, agudbuk said:

Well the UK government does very little for it's expats.
Expat pensioners even get their state pensions frozen.

 

As much as that sucks, I can't blame them.  A pound sent to a pensioner in London gets circulated through the economy 3 or 4 (or more) times before it's gone.  A pound sent to a pensioner in Thailand disappears from the UK economy without bringing any benefit at all.  It's in the country's best interest to encourage pensioners to spend their money in country, which means living there.

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

As much as that sucks, I can't blame them.  A pound sent to a pensioner in London gets circulated through the economy 3 or 4 (or more) times before it's gone.  A pound sent to a pensioner in Thailand disappears from the UK economy without bringing any benefit at all.  It's in the country's best interest to encourage pensioners to spend their money in country, which means living there.

 

True but there is a list of countries that pensioners can go with no problem where their dosh doesn't go back into the UK coffers..

[Pdaz]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

As much as that sucks, I can't blame them.  A pound sent to a pensioner in London gets circulated through the economy 3 or 4 (or more) times before it's gone.  A pound sent to a pensioner in Thailand disappears from the UK economy without bringing any benefit at all.  It's in the country's best interest to encourage pensioners to spend their money in country, which means living there.

 

What about the benefit of the pounds that the pensioner paid into the system his whole working life ? 

[BKKBodhisattva]

6 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Your post is a load of nonsense, and never mind your stupid technicalities, so you are saying that myself and thousands of other expats made a stupid life

decision by buying our houses in our wifes or girlfriends names. Yes, you do have to take some chances in life, but that does not excuse the behaviour of the

Thai government in this situation.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying.

You entered into that arrangement with your partner on a wing and a prayer which seems a foolish premise upon which to base a financial decision

The Thai government played no part in that arrangement, did it?

Why should they effectively insure you against the potential consequences of your own foolishness?

[maxcorrigan]

18 hours ago, BKKBodhisattva said:

Comparing apples and pears

How many Thais could get a visa to the UK without a sponsor or even afford the plane ticket?

How many do you think could afford to buy property in the UK?

 

OTOH, a lot of Brits can afford visas, flights and the cost of land here (if they were allowed to own it).

The Thais are right to restrict foreign ownership of land otherwise we'd have farang proles owning chunks of Thailand because it's very affordable when measured against Western currencies.

I find that it's most often people who were priced out of the property booms in their own countries that complain most vociferously about restrictive land ownership laws in Thailand

Thailand does not owe you a second bite at the real estate cherry because you missed the boat at home.

Why should they give farangs an advantage over their own people?

 

Foreign ownership of land is not "restricted" it's completely banned, if it was restricted to a certain amount of land ownership it would make more sense, I have paid for my house so it that sense own it, but cannot own the land it sits on, i can understand Thailand not wanting rich foreigners buying huge chunks of real estate as they have in London and elsewhere, but to ban it completely seems unfair, in my view, and counter productive!

[BKKBodhisattva]

27 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

What if you are on a multiple entry marriage visa, and don't trust Thailand banks enough to have 400.000 Baht in the bank?

 

An irrational fear of the local banks doesn't qualify for nannying from the Thai authorities.

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, BKKBodhisattva said:

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying.

You entered into that arrangement with your partner on a wing and a prayer which seems a foolish premise upon which to base a financial decision

The Thai government played no part in that arrangement, did it?

Why should they effectively insure you against the potential consequences of your own foolishness?

.

[55Jay]

21 minutes ago, BKKBodhisattva said:

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying.

You entered into that arrangement with your partner on a wing and a prayer which seems a foolish premise upon which to base a financial decision

The Thai government played no part in that arrangement, did it?

Why should they effectively insure you against the potential consequences of your own foolishness?

Indeed.  It's called Due Diligence.   Many don't figure it out until they are in it up to their necks. 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Pdaz said:

What about the benefit of the pounds that the pensioner paid into the system his whole working life ? 

 

Government pension systems are a Ponzi scheme.  I paid my money in to pay the benefits to those that went before me.  Now, I hope there's enough fresh meat (and jobs) to pay into the system so I can get my promised benefits.  

 

But I suffer no illusions that those promises won't be scaled back, given the growing angst and declining real salaries among the masses of working people (myself included) paying into the system today.  Given that cuts are pretty much inevitable, it seems that the best place to cut is to the money providing the least benefit to the country and the economy.  That would be the money on a one way trip out of the country.  As I said, it sucks for expats, but it makes sense for the vast majority.

 

Edit:  BTW, for anyone who's dead set against immigration, who do you figure is going to bring the number of workers up as the birth rate and salaries (and pension contributions) per worker continue to decline?  They may be a burden today in the near term, but they're the base of tomorrow's Ponzi pyramid.

Edited February 21, 2017 by impulse

[transam]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Government pension systems are a Ponzi scheme.  I paid my money in to pay the benefits to those that went before me.  Now, I hope there's enough fresh meat (and jobs) to pay into the system so I can get my promised benefits.  

 

But I suffer no illusions that those promises won't be scaled back, given the growing angst and declining real salaries among the masses of working people (myself included) paying into the system today.  Given that cuts are pretty much inevitable, it seems that the best place to cut is to the money providing the least benefit to the country and the economy.  That would be the money on a one way trip out of the country.  As I said, it sucks for expats, but it makes sense for the vast majority.

So the vast influx of foreign folk to the UK that are creaming our dosh doesn't come into your equation...?

[impulse]

Just now, transam said:

So the vast influx of foreign folk to the UK that are creaming our dosh doesn't come into your equation...?

 

You need 'em.  For the numbers to work out.  The question is, can your so called "leaders" manage them for maximum benefit.  That means for the next generations, not for the next quarter.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

You need 'em.  For the numbers to work out.  The question is, can your so called "leaders" manage them for maximum benefit.  That means for the next generations, not for the next quarter.

So the UK needs the ones taken care of on benefits that manage to get permission to stay...?

[malt25]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

"We all knew the rules & regs before we settled here", perhaps, but did the immigration rules not change drastically over the last ten years?

I personally know one chap who lived here on tourist visas and bought a house for himself and his girlfriend, in her name of course, he did not want to get married, he is now living in a neighbouring country having lost his house. Like thousands of others at that time, he had no idea that he would no longer be allowed to live on tourist visas.

 

I am not saying that people should be allowed to live permanently here on tourist visas, but this chap should not have been forced to lose his house, there should have been other options open to him, and I don't want to hear rubbish like if he cannot afford to have 800.000 Baht in his bank, he should not have been here in the first place.

Possum, mate, I think you may have missed the bus re this topic. It's about embassy's providing assistance to their citizens. More to the point, about contacting your embassy.

I'm sympathetic to your friends plight, devastating. But nothing in said situation is remotely associated with an embassy's duty or function.

You appear to have gone off track & started on about the unfairness of the Thai immigration office. I agree with some of what you are having a gripe about. But this is Thailand & not much is straight forward or rational re visas & residency & coming & going.

Maybe you should start a new thread on the "unfairness of the immigration office"

Best of luck.

[impulse]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

So the UK needs the ones taken care of on benefits that manage to get permission to stay...?

 

No, but what percentage are they of all your immigrants?  And what percentage of your 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants are on the dole vs the percentage that are funding your pension?  

 

The sponges do make great press for the right wing, though.  Hell, I don't like them either.  Just like I don't like the real sour blueberries.  But I don't give up blueberries just because one out of 20 are sour when I bite into them.

Edited February 21, 2017 by impulse

[cracker1]

On 2/20/2017 at 3:47 PM, OJAS said:

As far as we Brits are concerned, the problem is more likely to be with the shabby way we expat retirees in particular are treated by our "beloved" government back home - e.g. the permanent freezing of our State pensions and a ridiculous passport renewal system under which we are required to make 2 physical trips from whatever far-flung corner of LOS we live in to an office building with an exceedingly silly name somewhere in deepest darkest downtown Bangkok.

 

Emails of complaint to our ambassador (or to anyone else in the corridors of power back home) invariably hit a brick wall - as, I am sure, do any relating to our treatment at the hands of the powers-that-be here as well.

I read (and hear in the bars and the Thai streets) so many POM's complaining about their Government. 

Every few years you have an option to change it.

Ask yourself this. "When was the last time I voted in our General Elections, sensibly ?"

[NoshowJones]

9 minutes ago, malt25 said:

Possum, mate, I think you may have missed the bus re this topic. It's about embassy's providing assistance to their citizens. More to the point, about contacting your embassy.

I'm sympathetic to your friends plight, devastating. But nothing in said situation is remotely associated with an embassy's duty or function.

You appear to have gone off track & started on about the unfairness of the Thai immigration office. I agree with some of what you are having a gripe about. But this is Thailand & not much is straight forward or rational re visas & residency & coming & going.

Maybe you should start a new thread on the "unfairness of the immigration office"

Best of luck.

Yes, I get your point, but sometimes when you are answering peoples posts, it can lead to going a bit off topic, but thanks for pointing it out in a nice way.

As for starting a thread about the unfairness of the immigration, I don't think so, you get plenty of opportunity to agree and disagree on that subject all the time.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

No, but what percentage are they of all your immigrants?  And what percentage of your 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants are on the dole vs the percentage that are funding your pension?  

 

The sponges do make great press for the right wing, though.  Hell, I don't like them either.  Just like I don't like the real sour blueberries.  But I don't give up blueberries just because one out of 20 are sour when I bite into them.

Ol' Trans and all of us are "individuals".........I don't give a flying f_____ about foreign spongers or those who contribute to the UK.....Trans did his stuff all his life then retired....I CANNOT have my pension upgraded because I put my feet up in LOS but LOS folk are given everything if they are in the UK......You may say small numbers but THEY are individuals the same as me, l am told to f_____ off but the LOS folk are taken care of because of my life long cash input......

[BKKBodhisattva]

36 minutes ago, transam said:

So the vast influx of foreign folk to the UK that are creaming our dosh doesn't come into your equation...?

Most of them work. You're repeating nonsense you've read in the Daily Mail

26 minutes ago, transam said:

So the UK needs the ones taken care of on benefits that manage to get permission to stay...?

Of course it doesn't but study after study has shown that immigrants provide a net benefit to the UK.

Some come to scrounge but most come to work and work they do for crap wages that indigenous Brits won't get out of bed for.

[mettech]

To be an ambassador from canada or other country is always a reward from who is governing the country and liked the work you did for them;  do not need to know anything all it is a long holiday in the land of smile.

[transam]

1 minute ago, BKKBodhisattva said:

Most of them work. You're repeating nonsense you've read in the Daily Mail

Of course it doesn't but study after study has shown that immigrants provide a net benefit to the UK.

Some come to scrounge but most come to work and work they do for crap wages that indigenous Brits won't get out of bed for.

I don't read the DM but I was in business and learned a lot from others employing NON PAYERS of anything.........

I know Thai birds in the UK who got that UK PASSPORT and are on benefits after dumping their bloke....ME, in LOS had to sign a thing when getting an extension that if we split up I had 7 days to bugger off out the country.....Hmmmmmm