Dual citizenship and conscription

[nss70]

We (me falang, wife Thai) want my son (19yrs British citizen) to join us in Thailand. We would like to register him for dual citizenship but are concerned if this would make him eligible for conscription.

He's spent most of his life in Spain and only speaks English and Spanish. The reason for wanting dual citizenship is so he can obtain/do any type of work.

 

I've hunted around the web and only found dubious opinions, rather than difintive facts. Does anyone know for certain?

[elviajero]

Your son is Thai by birth and already eligible for conscription. If he has already had his birth registered in Thailand he's already in the system. If you apply for an ID card he will need his birth registered and to be registered at an address. He would need to not be registered (known) or revoke his Thai nationality to avoid the possibility of conscription.

 

As a Thai he can legally work, but only off the books without ID or being registered at an address.

Edited February 22, 2017 by elviajero

[nss70]

Hi and thanks for the response.

 

I obviously left my post a little ambiguous so here's more detail.

 

My son was born in the UK and is only registered there (and Spain for what it's worth). He currently has no record in Thailand at all so does not appear on their system.

If we now register him into the tabian ban and thence ID card and passport to facilitate legal working in Thailand, does that then leave him open to conscription or would the case that he was born in the UK and does not speak any Thai negate the draft.

 

I was thinking maybe he would have to attend the draw but then be disqualified/excused on the aforementioned counts???

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, nss70 said:

If we now register him into the tabian ban and thence ID card and passport to facilitate legal working in Thailand, does that then leave him open to conscription or would the case that he was born in the UK and does not speak any Thai negate the draft.

 

I was thinking maybe he would have to attend the draw but then be disqualified/excused on the aforementioned counts???

He would definitely be open to conscription. No idea how his lack of language affects things, but I doubt it would automatically excuse him. My son is only 4 so I haven't bothered investigating the ways dual nationals avoid conscription. Maybe someone with actual experience will be able to advise you on that.

[nss70]

Yep, that's what I'm hoping for...

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, nss70 said:

My son was born in the UK and is only registered there (and Spain for what it's worth). He currently has no record in Thailand at all so does not appear on their system.

Does he have a Thai birth certificate issued by the embassy in London? If not that is the first thing you will need to do if you want to register him here.

[ChaangNoi]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Does he have a Thai birth certificate issued by the embassy in London? If not that is the first thing you will need to do if you want to register him here.

It was my understanding there is an office in Bangkok one can go to if one does not have that certificate and is already in the couintry. I'm not sure where the son is, and I might also be wrong. I'm sort of in the same boat.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, ChaangNoi said:

It was my understanding there is an office in Bangkok one can go to if one does not have that certificate and is already in the couintry. I'm not sure where the son is, and I might also be wrong. I'm sort of in the same boat.

The birth certificate can only be issued by the embassy where a person was born.

The application can done through the department of consular affairs in Bangkok but it would be issued by the embassy.

[IMA_FARANG]

I understand that your son may revoke his Thai nationality when he reaches 21 years old.

By doing this he would become a UK national only.

However consider this very carefully, as he becomes a foreign national, and automatically requires a visa to remain in Thailand and loses his right to work in Thailand without a work permit as does any foreigner

The advantage to this is he will as no longer a dual national not qualified for conscription.

 

[Evilbaz]

Changing the colour of the ball at conscription time is not expensive.

[stevenl]

If he does not speak any Thai he will be rejected for the service.

[nss70]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

If he does not speak any Thai he will be rejected for the service.

Is that for certain? If so where did you get the information from.

Cheers.

[stevenl]

Is that for certain? If so where did you get the information from.
Cheers.

There was a thread about this here recently.

sent using Tapatalk

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

If he does not speak any Thai he will be rejected for the service.

Common sense would suggest you're right, but it is not an official reason to be exempt

[nss70]

What would be the relevant office in Thailand to contact about this. I've tried the Thai consulate in the UK but they never answer the phone at department level.

[BritTim]

19 hours ago, stevenl said:

If he does not speak any Thai he will be rejected for the service.

Even if he has negligible Thai now, a 19-year-old with Thai family will most likely have pretty functional Thai after a couple of years in the country. It would be prudent to look into other methods for avoiding the draft.

[Evilbaz]

There are several grounds for avoiding being drafted.

One appears to be completion of high school?

[nss70]

Reviving this old thread.

 

We decided against registering our son in Thailand as we met a few couples whose sons were indeed drafted, one of whom could speak next to zero Thai and had a pretty rotten experience. The only positives were he came out in one piece and could speak good Thai.

 

Meanwhile, my son has been gone and returned on 30day extended visa-exempt entries as he is on now.

 

For now we were looking to get him either a tourist visa or a business visa on a fly for visa run.

The business visa would have to be based on "looking for work", otherwise a tourist would have to suffice. He is 20 and I believe no longer qualifies for a join-mother non O.

 

I have seen a guy get a Bvisa based on looking for work at Penang and was wondering if this unique to Penang or generally available or even still possible.

 

TIA

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, nss70 said:

I have seen a guy get a Bvisa based on looking for work at Penang and was wondering if this unique to Penang or generally available or even still possible.

 

Those are no longer available anywhere. 

[paz]

2 hours ago, nss70 said:

For now we were looking to get him either a tourist visa or a business visa on a fly for visa run.

In my opinion the most appropriate for a young Foreigner/Thai would be studying (Thai, or secondary education) and get the relevant visa / permission to stay.

[nss70]

Thanks to both of you for your answers, both useful information.

For this time I guess a tourist 60+30 is the best way to go. Giving us time to rethink, possibly on the ed visa as above.

Any up to date preference on consulate for easiest application with the least demanding requirements?

[paz]

4 minutes ago, nss70 said:

Any up to date preference on consulate for easiest application with the least demanding requirements?

There are no requirements. People goes to the one which is closer, more convenient, or to match with a visit to another country, etc.

[BritTim]

10 minutes ago, nss70 said:

Thanks to both of you for your answers, both useful information.

For this time I guess a tourist 60+30 is the best way to go. Giving us time to rethink, possibly on the ed visa as above.

Any up to date preference on consulate for easiest application with the least demanding requirements?

If you plan to find another solution than tourist visas in the future, so you do not need to consider needing many subsequent tourist visas, go to Vientiane Laos. This is a busy consulate, and I recommend you apply for the visa on Tuesday or Wednesday morning.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, nss70 said:

Thanks to both of you for your answers, both useful information.

For this time I guess a tourist 60+30 is the best way to go. Giving us time to rethink, possibly on the ed visa as above.

Any up to date preference on consulate for easiest application with the least demanding requirements?

Vientiane, Laos. Should be able to get 3/4 tourist visas there before they say no more.

[nss70]

Thanks for all the comments guys.

 

[samran]

Conscription only becomes an issue if he becomes registered on the blue house book.

 

If your son was born outside of Thailand (eg UK) you can easily obtain a birth certificate and thai passport for him in London and use that to enter Thailand and stay on an unlimited basis.

 

there is a caveat: don’t lose the thai passport while in Thailand!

 

Applying for Thai passports in Thailand require you to be on the house book and have an ID card.

 

Generally speaking, for Thais born overseas and applying for a Thai passport via the Thai embassy outside of Thailand, the requirement for a house registration and ID can be waived. The logic is that if you’ve born overseas and never lived in Thailand then it isn’t possible to be registered.

 

so long as you apply for the passport overseas and aren’t tegistered in Thailand then you are not a concern for the draft board. At a minimum, you need to be living and on the books here to be drafted. 

 

Just dont lose the passport while in thailand!

 

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by samran

[nss70]

Now that is a very useful post samran.

I shall investigate this immediately as it could be an extremely easy answer to his problem.

Cheers

Edited November 30, 2017 by nss70

[samran]

2 hours ago, nss70 said:

Now that is a very useful post samran.

I shall investigate this immediately as it could be an extremely easy answer to his problem.

Cheers

No worries.

 

The other option might be to get him a Thai BC, and then use that as the basis to get an annual extension of stay in his UK passport. There is a special one available for former Thai citizens, but as far as I understand, Thai citizens travelling on another passport can be granted this extension of stay.

 

The child has to apply for the Thai birth certificate in the country they were born in. So born in the UK, it is the Thai embassy in London who issues it.

 

You can however make the BC application through the department of consular affairs in Chaengwattana who will then basically collect the paperwork and liaise with the Thai embassy in London.

 

Good luck with it all.

 

On the 1st of Jan on the year he turns 30, he'll be exempt from military service.

 

 

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, samran said:

The other option might be to get him a Thai BC, and then use that as the basis to get an annual extension of stay in his UK passport. There is a special one available for former Thai citizens, but as far as I understand, Thai citizens travelling on another passport can be granted this extension of stay.

Yes, they can. My children always enter using their British passports, and if required apply for 1 year extensions. This is granted with proof of Thai nationality (Thai birth certificate). The extension of stay permit in the passport has the notation "Khun Thai (คนไทย)"

[tifino]

wife's nephew is now late 20's.

Back in 2014 the same questions came up with him, as he wanted to spend more time living some with his BioDad (Sister In Law's Ex) who's never ever left Thailand.

 

Sister In law investigated same, and suddenly the right question, into the wrong ear of a Thai Official - got him instant Call Up papers.!

Mind you, nephew was still in Sydney at the time that his mum got the letter. He'd been living resident in Aust since he was 11.

 

Eventually, a compromise was negotiated...

... he took up the offer to ( In Lieu of Mil Service) simply Travel to Thailand;

 and do 3 Months as a Monk, in the Temple nearest the Family's home village near Amphawa.

 

He's so born lazy, that if not for the turn of events - he never would have done the Monk thing from becoming an adult

 

so, it was a win-win for mum

 

When the time came to go, the whole family went along...

Mum, him, and quite a few of us flew up, alongside him (chaperone in bulk), to make sure he didn't 'wag school' when he landed in BKK...