Exchange rate used for retirement income visas

[dick dasterdly]

Does anyone know the exchange rate used by Immigration when calculating the conversion to Thai bht?

 

There is a large 'spread' between exchange rates.  Just looking at the SCB foreign exchange rate web page, the best rate is 45.385 (sterling/selling notes rate) and 42.743 (buying notes rate).

 

That's quite a difference when it comes to calculating the rate for a retirement income visa extension!

[madmax2]

I do not think they use a conversion rate, funds have to be in Thai Baht for your retirement visa extension not any other foreign currency

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, madmax2 said:

I do not think they use a conversion rate, funds have to be in Thai Baht for your retirement visa extension not any other foreign currency

For a retirement visa based on income - a letter from the Brit. Embassy (for Brits) confirming income in sterling is required, which is then converted into bht by Immigration.

 

Hence my query as the 'spread' is so large.

[madmax2]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

For a retirement visa based on income - a letter from the Brit. Embassy (for Brits) confirming income in sterling is required, which is then converted into bht by Immigration.

 

Hence my query as the 'spread' is so large.

It would have to be the buying rate from banks which you receive when exchanging any currency

Selling rate is the banks markup/profit on a conversion  of currency selling transaction

[ubonjoe]

They will use the buying rate for the date you apply for the extension of stay (not a visa). That is the rate you would get if you had pounds to exchange for baht.

The selling rate is to exchange baht to get pounds.

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

They will use the buying rate for the date you apply for the extension of stay (not a visa). That is the rate you would get if you had pounds to exchange for baht.

The selling rate is to exchange baht to get pounds.

So Immigration use the 'note buying' rate?

 

I assume there isn't much difference between different banks, and apologise for talking about 'visa' rather than the more accurate 'extension of stay'.

[sandyf]

Last time I went the IO asked me what the exchange rate was and I told her what I had seen on forex that morning. She wrote it down and did the calculation, then picked up the phone and called the bank. I saw what she wrote down and it was a better rate from the bank than I had given, possibly some improvement during the day or the selling price from the bank by mistake.

At the end of the day you need a bit of wiggle room.

[madmax2]

Just make sure you have more money than the minimum amount required by 5% and you will not have a problem

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

So Immigration use the 'note buying' rate?

 

I assume there isn't much difference between different banks, and apologise for talking about 'visa' rather than the more accurate 'extension of stay'.

Yes they use the rate that you would get if you had pound notes to exchange for baht.

The rates normally are very close to the same at all banks. Just a few satang difference.

It would be better if they used the TT rate that you get when you transfer money in. Yesterday it was 48 satang higher than the buying rate.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I assume there isn't much difference between different banks

Immigration use the Bangkok Bank rate.

 

If your converted income is less than 65K you can meet the shortfall by using cash in the bank. The income x 12 plus the cash in the bank must total at least 800K. e.g. If the income is 60K (720K) you would need at least 80K in the bank. The cash would need to be in the bank for at least 60 days for the first extension or 3 months for the second and subsequent extensions.

[almodeller]

Korat immigration uses Bangkok Bank rates as stated above see http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/WebServices/Rates/Pages/FX_Rates.aspx

if you wish to change £ sterling to thai baht use the first column 42.96

[smotherb]

21 hours ago, madmax2 said:

I do not think they use a conversion rate, funds have to be in Thai Baht for your retirement visa extension not any other foreign currency

Not for the income-based extension. The letter from my embassy quotes my income in USD.  I have been on income-based extensions for ten years; one year an immigration officer asked how much was that in baht, I gave him the rate; he played with his calculator and was satisfied. Another time, an immigration officer implied I needed B130k/mo because my wife piggy-backs on my extension; again a calculator and the rate I supplied satisfied the question. 

[smotherb]

20 hours ago, madmax2 said:

Just make sure you have more money than the minimum amount required by 5% and you will not have a problem

unless the rate changes by 5% next year

[wayned]

The IO at the Nakhon Sawan Office looks up the current exchange rate on the Bangkok Bank rate chart on their internet page.  She uses the the current buying rate buying rate, for 50-100USD, not the TT rate, which is better. I assume she would do the same for GBP which only has one buying rate.  The USD has three, 1-2USD, 5-20USD and 50-100USD, the 1-2USD being the worst.

[riclag]

1 hour ago, smotherb said:

Not for the income-based extension. The letter from my embassy quotes my income in USD.  I have been on income-based extensions for ten years; one year an immigration officer asked how much was that in baht, I gave him the rate; he played with his calculator and was satisfied. Another time, an immigration officer implied I needed B130k/mo because my wife piggy-backs on my extension; again a calculator and the rate I supplied satisfied the question. 

I don't understand ?Are you suggesting that the IO said because you were married that you had to double the required amount of 65k

[smotherb]

40 minutes ago, riclag said:

I don't understand ?Are you suggesting that the IO said because you were married that you had to double the required amount of 65k

Well, not exactly. I think it was not because I was married, it was because there were two farangs. 

 

My wife is not Thai, and was not old enough for a retirement extension on her own, so she piggy-backed on my income statement for her extension.

 

So, I guess he pulled some Thainess out of his posterier and thought; well two farangs must be twice the income required. However, he did not know the USD to THB rate and he calculated using the rate I told him and was reluctantly satisfied.

 

That was several years ago and he was mistaken; we have always gotten two extensions and B65k is all that is required.  

[kingstonkid]

I usually provide them with XE universal currency for that day in print out.  Seems to make them happy

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, elviajero said:

Immigration use the Bangkok Bank rate.

 

If your converted income is less than 65K you can meet the shortfall by using cash in the bank. The income x 12 plus the cash in the bank must total at least 800K. e.g. If the income is 60K (720K) you would need at least 80K in the bank. The cash would need to be in the bank for at least 60 days for the first extension or 3 months for the second and subsequent extensions.

That is the theory but easier said than done. I had to do that after brexit last year. I was about 80K short so went to the bank and got a statement on my savings account which had about 150K. The IO pulled a face and went and had a debate with the supervisor, came back and said they would let it go this time but in future had to show at least 200K. That was at Sri Ratcha.

Not going to bother this year, going to get a multi non O when I go to the UK.

[dick dasterdly]

22 hours ago, elviajero said:

Immigration use the Bangkok Bank rate.

 

If your converted income is less than 65K you can meet the shortfall by using cash in the bank. The income x 12 plus the cash in the bank must total at least 800K. e.g. If the income is 60K (720K) you would need at least 80K in the bank. The cash would need to be in the bank for at least 60 days for the first extension or 3 months for the second and subsequent extensions.

Thank you.

 

Yes, when sterling fell so much a few months ago I had to transfer money into my Thai bank account to cover the shortfall - but as the difference had to be in my bank account for three months, worried far too much about the exchange rate three months later when the extension was due for renewal!

 

All OK now, but it did make me wonder about the exchange rate used by immigration - hence my original post.

 

Thanks to forum members, I now know it is the Bangkok Bank exchange rate for 'buying notes'.

 

I pay a visa agent to deal with annual extensions and 90 day reports as I'm one of the unfortunate few that worry about everything, and can't deal with the stress involved that starts a couple of weeks before even the 90 day report!

 

Disappointingly, when I explained to my visa agent that as a result of the fall in exchange rates I'd need to show additional funds in my bank account for the previous three months - she was even less aware of the rules than myself, and said I'd need to show 800,000 bht in my bank account for three months regardless of my letter from the Brit. Embassy confirming my income!  She didn't believe me that I only needed the difference until she spoke to someone from Immigration, who confirmed that I only needed the 'difference'.....

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, smotherb said:

Well, not exactly. I think it was not because I was married, it was because there were two farangs. 

 

My wife is not Thai, and was not old enough for a retirement extension on her own, so she piggy-backed on my income statement for her extension.

 

So, I guess he pulled some Thainess out of his posterier and thought; well two farangs must be twice the income required. However, he did not know the USD to THB rate and he calculated using the rate I told him and was reluctantly satisfied.

 

That was several years ago and he was mistaken; we have always gotten two extensions and B65k is all that is required.  

I seem to recall that this was mooted a few years ago - that married Western couples had to have 800k bht X 2 in their bank account (or the income equivalent)?

 

Presumably, this never happened.

[smotherb]

21 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I seem to recall that this was mooted a few years ago - that married Western couples had to have 800k bht X 2 in their bank account (or the income equivalent)?

 

Presumably, this never happened.

Well, at the time it happened to me, I posted about it on TV and I believe there was some talk about what you say. My eleventh extension is coming up next month, so I am going to BKK Tuesday for Guns 'n Roses and the Embassy income letter. I certainly will ask at immigration next month.

 

What you say may have some merit. My income is more than B130k/mo, so maybe I have been expected to have that amount because my wife piggy-backs me.

 

Does anyone know for sure?? UbonJoe?

 

However, there may be a difference in logic between income and bank balance. Since neither method requires you to spend a minimum amount in Thailand; it implies the Thais just want you to have some money. However, as one Thai friend suggested, having a significant amount of income monthly may be considered more solvent than having money which is usually removed every year.

[elviajero]

55 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

I usually provide them with XE universal currency for that day in print out.  Seems to make them happy

They are just being polite. It doesn't matter what rates you show the IO they will use the Bangkok Bank rate.

[elviajero]

55 minutes ago, sandyf said:

That is the theory but easier said than done. I had to do that after brexit last year. I was about 80K short so went to the bank and got a statement on my savings account which had about 150K. The IO pulled a face and went and had a debate with the supervisor, came back and said they would let it go this time but in future had to show at least 200K. That was at Sri Ratcha.

Not going to bother this year, going to get a multi non O when I go to the UK.

Sure. There are local rules, which is one reason why I wrote "at least".

[elviajero]

7 minutes ago, smotherb said:

What you say may have some merit. My income is more than B130k/mo, so maybe I have been expected to have that amount because my wife piggy-backs me.

If you and your wife want extensions (retirement) in your own right you would both need to provide separate income affidavits of at least 65K.

 

If your wife is going to piggyback your extension she doesn't need to provide any financials, and you only need 65K to get your extension.

[oobar]

56 minutes ago, elviajero said:

If you and your wife want extensions (retirement) in your own right you would both need to provide separate income affidavits of at least 65K.

 

If your wife is going to piggyback your extension she doesn't need to provide any financials, and you only need 65K to get your extension.

This is correct.  My wife and I just got our 2-farang extensions of stay for retirement at Sisaket.  She piggybacked, so all we needed was the 65k.

[OJAS]

On 2/25/2017 at 3:39 PM, ubonjoe said:

It would be better if they used the TT rate that you get when you transfer money in. Yesterday it was 48 satang higher than the buying rate.

 

6 hours ago, wayned said:

The IO at the Nakhon Sawan Office looks up the current exchange rate on the Bangkok Bank rate chart on their internet page.  She uses the the current buying rate buying rate, for 50-100USD, not the TT rate, which is better.

 

I suspect that the reason why they don't use the TT rate is that this doesn't cover banking charges here for processing conversions. Ah well, at least Immigration allow us to prove finances on the basis of gross income before the jolly old taxman wherever has taken his cut, so it might be too much to expect everything, I suppose.

[Suradit69]

On 2/25/2017 at 5:26 PM, elviajero said:

 The cash would need to be in the bank for at least 60 days for the first extension or 3 months for the second and subsequent extensions.

I thought, at least in theory, if you combine income and bank balance, that the "seasoning" requirement for the money in the bank didn't apply.

I know such things can vary from office to office, but doesn't the wording of the "rule" omit any mention to how long the money needs to be in the bank for a retirement extension combining income and bank deposit??

[Petchou]

Just install superrich application for exchange rate on your phone because it gives one of the best rates in Thailand and show them the rate, they will use it.

I do it each time.

[timber]

I used http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/ last year no problem.

 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

I thought, at least in theory, if you combine income and bank balance, that the "seasoning" requirement for the money in the bank didn't apply.

I know such things can vary from office to office, but doesn't the wording of the "rule" omit any mention to how long the money needs to be in the bank for a retirement extension combining income and bank deposit??

Depends on how you read the police orders, last issued in 2014, but they do not specifically mention how long the money needs to be in the bank when combining income and bank deposit. However, also in 2014 immigration offices received additional orders (never made public as far as I know) to confirm that the seasoning rules also applied.

 

Since then the major offices, and it would seem most others, insist on seasoning, which is backed up by member reports.

 

The only time offices are supposed to waive the seasoning requirement is when income shortfall/money in the bank is small.

 

Most, if not all, offices used to ignore seasoning, but due to people abusing the system (no change there) that loophole has been closed.

 

The published police orders have not been updated since, but immigration have made it clear in the FAQ's on the immigration website.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by elviajero