Many constructions are left half finished since Russians left . very sad.

[scubascuba3]

Nice place for 5,000 Baht a month, are you joking. I could never see the point of living in Thailand in a shoe box apartment, feeling I have to get out everyday.
 
Everyone is different, many people buy a house or a condo to make it their home, there are several posters who live in 20m Baht and upwards, houses, better than paying 100 to 120,000 Baht a month rent, especially if you are going to be here a long time.
 
The majority of the rent don't buy brigade live in small units, not many would be paying over 50,000 a month rent.

Most people don't need to rent an expensive condo to have a good time. Most of the guys i play golf with start off with 30k monthly rents, after getting more experienced what you can get are down to 15k-20k max, a couple as low as 6k, personally I'm very happy in a 12k all incl central hotel just off beach road. Next 6 month trip I'm looking at a newish 7-8k condo in Naklua.

We all have different tastes. If you've ever experienced backpacking in your younger days you would have learnt you don't need to stay in expensive places.

[guzzi850m2]

Very true about your own place, a place you own; You and only you (and wife off-course, if you got one) decide on what TV and fridge to buy, decorating your own place is just something I take great pleasure in doing, can do it over as many years as you like, make small improvements here and there.

 

So my wife always had the fridge in the kitchen filled to the brim with food stuff, so I bought a fridge for my office with strict instructions to my wife: only beers and water in this one, thanks.

Same with furniture; got a very nice leather (real leather) 1-2-3 sofa system in the living room, just got the large 3 person sofa reupholstered and it looks like new again, had it in the first house as well, so it's from 2005 or thereabouts.

 

I also didn't buy the house as an money investment but more as an investment for my family to have a nice place to live, our place. Our neighbors are Thai doctors and factory owners, there will be no karaoke bar in the village, and not possible nearby.   

 

Life is good.

 

[JimCrane]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What's wrong with being an old pensioner living in a cheap room on Soi Buakhao?

I know a very nice place on Soi B. that rents for 5,000 a month, and is over the best restaurant on Soi B. Not everyone needs a palace to live in.

it's much more comfortable to use a western toilet and to not live with rats. that's what's wrong with it.
make no mistake, being poor sucks balls. there is nothing noble about it unless you are a monk.

[JSixpack]

7 hours ago, Asiantravel said:

 

" would be in fact be glad of a CONDO CRASH as I'd buy another unit or two "

 

maybe you will get your wish sooner than you think

 

  "Thailand’s 10-year outlook" doesn't sound very soon to me, so seems to be you who's really eager. Why's that?

 

I was looking for the promised knockout but all they had was, "Thailand’s aging population and relatively low average income, which could result in an overburdened welfare system." Could. Or maybe adjustments will be made. Didn't see that they made any wishful connection w/ condo sales, either. So seems they're a lot more educated than our doomsters; that was at least refreshing.

 

Edited April 26, 2017 by JSixpack

[scubascuba3]

it's much more comfortable to use a western toilet and to not live with rats. that's what's wrong with it.
make no mistake, being poor sucks balls. there is nothing noble about it unless you are a monk.

Why do you think 5k means rats and squatty toilet? It sounds like its what you expect to see

[JSixpack]

11 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Great post I know many guys that are stuck and hate it.  Another is after they move into their lovely condo and soon a 2 to 3 years construction project starts next door.  Pratumnak and Wongamat are famous for this scenario. Cannot sell, cannot move, cannot even rent it.  Sad.

 

Amazing how experiences differ. You might read up on confirmation bias. Very few units are for sale or rent in my building. It sold out years ago, though ace TVF real estate experts would declare it mostly vacant and therefore failed and bankrupt according to the critical lights on at night indicator. None of my neighbors seems unhappy or has professed being "stuck" ("stuck" means you're too poor to have bought in the first place); and when owners gather en masse at the annual meetings, we just discuss routine maintenance issues, fees, and the budget--nothing about hating anything at all. Some residents don't like other residents, but it's for the most petty of reasons, and they'd feel so no matter where they lived. Sorry to spoil the fantasy. :)

 

 

Edited April 26, 2017 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

We all have different tastes. If you've ever experienced backpacking in your younger days you would have learnt you don't need to stay in expensive places.

 

But you see after we learned that, we then decided that even if we didn't need more, we now want more and are in a position to have it.

[scubascuba3]

 
But you see after we learned that, we then decided that even if we didn't need more, we now want more and are in a position to have it.

You sound desperate to up the property market, maybe bitter you bought, you are trying very hard. Angry at something.

Personally i probably will buy at some point, i don't need to big the market up or pretend everything is rosy.

[JSixpack]

43 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You sound desperate to up the property market, maybe bitter you bought, you are trying very hard. Angry at something.

 

I know that's very important for you to think, as it is for so many of our renters who hold forth with such authority about ownership in the recurring CONDO GLUT and FOOLS BUY REAL ESTATE threads, but actually no. The opposite, really. Now I do think it's fun to have a laugh at all the nonsense and rationalizations. And after all years ago, in case you missed it above, I codified the sage, street smart TVF Poster Three Primal Laws Of Survival In Thailand:

 

1. Never invest in anything you aren't ready to lose;

2. Never own more than you can carry with you;

3. Keep your suitcase packed at all times.

 

And I warned everyone to RUN! We don't know what nasty surprises are in store!

 

Which will be understood perfectly by anyone who's experienced backpacking in his younger days, maybe in areas where bears roam freely.

 

As noted above, it's quite fine with me if the long-predicted CRASH happens. :) Now we have every reason to believe it'll happen, ah, um . . . within the next 10 years. :)

[swissie]

Interesting thread, indeed. Many pro's and con's concerning ownership versus renting. Back to basics, maybe?
Just a couple of things come to mind:

- Boom's and Bust's have been part of market economies since the beginning of recorded time. In the very old days, Boom's and Bust's were mainly limited to agricultural products. These days we have a "smorgasboard" of Boom and Bust opportunities ranging from Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate just to name 3 of them.

But rest assured, the Pattaya Real-Estate Boom is not in immediate danger. The Pattaya RE Boom has simply not yet matured enough. A "mature boom" is in place, when upwards of 80% of market perticipants reach the conclusion that "the sky is the limit". We have not reached this stage yet, still too many sceptics around.

One thing remains assured: Every boom will eventually be corrected by market forces. Strictly a matter of time.
Unfortunately: When this is about to happen, this event will not be announced by ringing bells or blaring bugels or a tweet by Donald J.Trump beforehand. It usually happens with amazing speed.

A good measuring stick to assess if R/E price increases are of "organic" nature or not, is to to look at the ratio between investment and possible rental yield of the property. I find, that in Pattaya, this ratio is outside of historical and economical parameters already. An unhealthy constellation, to put it mildly.

But, as mentioned above, Pattaya is not yet "ripe" for corrective market forces to rectify this situation.

Talking like a true "smart Alec", right? Maybe, but I have (financial) History on my side, dating back to the old Egyptians and before.
Before this all unfolds, don't forget why you are in Thailand. It's eighter for the Temples or for . The rest can wait.
Cheers.

[bkk6060]

14 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Amazing how experiences differ. You might read up on confirmation bias. Very few units are for sale or rent in my building. It sold out years ago, though ace TVF real estate experts would declare it mostly vacant and therefore failed and bankrupt according to the critical lights on at night indicator. None of my neighbors seems unhappy or has professed being "stuck" ("stuck" means you're too poor to have bought in the first place); and when owners gather en masse at the annual meetings, we just discuss routine maintenance issues, fees, and the budget--nothing about hating anything at all. Some residents don't like other residents, but it's for the most petty of reasons, and they'd feel so no matter where they lived. Sorry to spoil the fantasy. :)

 

 

Wow good for you.  The RE market is fine, everything is great you love where you live, no one complains, everybody is happy, its all sold out must be fantastic.  You are so smart sounds like you own the perfect condo happy happy.

PS:  talk about living in a fantasy world.  Geezzzz.

 

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

To buy or not to buy in Patterz? The market has tanked, but the rental market seems to be doing all right.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[brling]

16 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

 Very few units are for sale or rent in my building. It sold out years ago, 

 

 

" My building",  Please say the name of this wonderful building where you doubled your money.  

[janclaes47]

Just now, brling said:

" My building",  Please say the name of this wonderful building where you doubled your money.  

 

I think he bought more than 10 years ago, so the building is probably older, it would have been a real disaster if all units weren't sold over that period of time.

 

But the hard reality is that this thread is about constructions started a few years ago.

 

I have a friend in the construction business in Pattaya, and he happens to sell his article to 80% of the condo projects, and he told me that he wouldn't buy in ANY of the ongoing construction projects since they are ALL in serious problems.

 

Of course, before our rose coloured goggles resident jumps in, that does not include those that are finished for over 75%.

[JSixpack]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Wow good for you.  The RE market is fine, everything is great you love where you live, no one complains, everybody is happy, its all sold out must be fantastic.  You are so smart sounds like you own the perfect condo happy happy.

PS:  talk about living in a fantasy world.  Geezzzz.

 

 

 

Exaggeration of my statements, little anecdotes, biased views, and straw man argument don't help your case. They really, really won't convince any of the owners that they must be unhappy 'cause you say they are.

 

Fact, rather than just flap gums and blow smoke, you could probably attend some of the countless average condo bldg Annual Meetings around town and see if the co-owners are in fact wailing and flagellating themselves. I think you'll find things exactly as I say they are. Meanwhile, our ace TVF Real Estate Analysts who dominate all the CONDO GLUT and FOOLS BUY REAL ESTATE threads can't be convinced anew by the same old doom & gloom assertions either. They KNOW. Nothing new's been said for over a decade. So, rather waste your time by blowing smoke and as a mere renter posturing as an expert on ownership, it might be better to just suck it up and move on.

 

Cheers!  

Edited April 27, 2017 by JSixpack

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 1:38 PM, yaagjon said:

Nice place for 5,000 Baht a month, are you joking. I could never see the point of living in Thailand in a shoe box apartment, feeling I have to get out everyday.

 

Everyone is different, many people buy a house or a condo to make it their home, there are several posters who live in 20m Baht and upwards, houses, better than paying 100 to 120,000 Baht a month rent, especially if you are going to be here a long time.

 

The majority of the rent don't buy brigade live in small units, not many would be paying over 50,000 a month rent.

LOL. The only point of living in Pattaya that I can think of is to go out everyday. If I wanted to stay inside I'd stay in my own country.

You seem to be regarding anyone not paying over 50,000 a month in rent as some sort of inferior being.

As I'm more than happy with the condo I rented at 15,000 a month, I'd much rather be spending the surplus 35,000 baht on actually living, instead of spending my life watching the idiot box.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎27‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 5:16 PM, JSixpack said:

 

Exaggeration of my statements, little anecdotes, biased views, and straw man argument don't help your case. They really, really won't convince any of the owners that they must be unhappy 'cause you say they are.

 

Fact, rather than just flap gums and blow smoke, you could probably attend some of the countless average condo bldg Annual Meetings around town and see if the co-owners are in fact wailing and flagellating themselves. I think you'll find things exactly as I say they are. Meanwhile, our ace TVF Real Estate Analysts who dominate all the CONDO GLUT and FOOLS BUY REAL ESTATE threads can't be convinced anew by the same old doom & gloom assertions either. They KNOW. Nothing new's been said for over a decade. So, rather waste your time by blowing smoke and as a mere renter posturing as an expert on ownership, it might be better to just suck it up and move on.

 

Cheers!  

Again, the reason for renting and not buying is ( certainly in my case and I'm sure in many other cases ) nothing to do with the condo glut or the markets or the financial situation.

Of course everything is all right till it isn't. Be happy now, as you don't know if, or when, it is going to go sideways.

One thing I did learn through experience, is that everything ends, one way or another.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory insulting post has been removed and an offensive post has been removed as well.  Let's keep it civil please.

[whatwasithinking]

On 2017-4-27 at 8:16 PM, JSixpack said:

 

Exaggeration of my statements, little anecdotes, biased views, and straw man argument don't help your case. They really, really won't convince any of the owners that they must be unhappy 'cause you say they are.

 

Fact, rather than just flap gums and blow smoke, you could probably attend some of the countless average condo bldg Annual Meetings around town and see if the co-owners are in fact wailing and flagellating themselves. I think you'll find things exactly as I say they are. Meanwhile, our ace TVF Real Estate Analysts who dominate all the CONDO GLUT and FOOLS BUY REAL ESTATE threads can't be convinced anew by the same old doom & gloom assertions either. They KNOW. Nothing new's been said for over a decade. So, rather waste your time by blowing smoke and as a mere renter posturing as an expert on ownership, it might be better to just suck it up and move on.

 

Cheers!  

I do hope 1 day my views change ,however at the moment even as a buyer i wish i was on the renting board . Having bought 2 condos in Centara avenue in late 2011 with final completion date & transfer due final quarter 2015 yet still waiting the chanote, the gymnasium & roof top gardens . Not even to go into specifics about quality as good as or better then showroom specs . Ok i have to say this is not the entire market but having tried to sell condos for the last 5 years in central Pattaya with little hope other then to lose money i have to disagree with much you have said . I am sure at times some have made money on condos & even houses & i even know 1 such man. It is not something i would push a friend to do myself . It was a friend in fact that talked me into do what i did so i have to live with that as does he . 

 

This complex is a condo hotel which i would also never buy into again . A hotel guest of 1500 baht a night has more say then a condo owner who has paid millions of baht . Kids are permitted to scream around the pool daily .In my home country i have always considered buying better then renting but certainly at the moment here it is a buyers & renters market with numerous choices to buy & or rent with many choices of cheap rental & possible bargains for people choosing to buy . Those trying to sell that bought in 2011 or 2012 have little option but to hold on or to sell for a loss of a minimum 200 000 baht plus 5 % commission .

 

I am not 1 looking for trouble & would much prefer to rent & move on if unhappy then be stuck with trying to sell in a complex where there is no chanote , no strata meetings & only lost money trying to sell in a market obviously swamped with condos & still growing with the complexes yet to be completed that have not gone bankrupt in recent years 

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, whatwasithinking said:

I do hope 1 day my views change ,however at the moment even as a buyer i wish i was on the renting board . Having bought 2 condos in Centara avenue in late 2011 with final completion date & transfer due final quarter 2015 yet still waiting the chanote, the gymnasium & roof top gardens .

 

As I've often said, buying off plan here in this Third World country is either for fools or the well-heeled who know what they're doing. Of course it didn't turn out well. Though it wins applause with the peanut gallery of renters here, to compare buying a mere promise of some purported construction with buying an actual condo in an already completed complex where you do informed due diligence before buying is silly and illogical. Many of the horror stories here, which aren't many in proportion to the total number of owners in Pattaya, result from buying off plan--which of course is conflated with any purchase for the DOOM scenario.

 

Quote

i have to disagree with much you have said

 

TVF Posters commonly assert I said something I didn't 'cause they wish argue against some imaginary real estate promoter guaranteeing riches thru investing in Pattaya real estate--a straw man, as there is no such poster here and never has been. It bothers our renters if owners dare admit they like living in their condos and aren't worried and desperate to sell in accordance with the myth. You haven't actually disagreed with anything I've said.

Edited June 12, 2017 by JSixpack

[whatwasithinking]

7 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

As I've often said, buying off plan here in this Third World country is either for fools or the well-heeled who know what they're doing. Of course it didn't turn out well. Though it wins applause with the peanut gallery of renters here, to compare buying a mere promise of some purported construction with buying an actual condo in an already completed complex where you do informed due diligence before buying is silly and illogical. Many of the horror stories here, which aren't many in proportion to the total number of owners in Pattaya, result from buying off plan--which of course is conflated with any purchase for the DOOM scenario.

 

 

TVF Posters commonly assert I said something I didn't 'cause they wish argue against some imaginary real estate promoter guaranteeing riches thru investing in Pattaya real estate--a straw man, as there is no such poster here and never has been. It bothers our renters if owners dare admit they like living in their condos and aren't worried and desperate to sell in accordance with the myth. You haven't actually disagreed with anything I've said.

LOL if you had of done such due diligence as you stated back in 2011 or 2012 these developments including the waterfront would have came back with what we call in my country a triple A plus rating & i at this time do know somebody who just recently ie withing the last 6 weeks done a due diligence on grand avenue & spent 30 000 baht with possibly the most respected legal company in Pattaya & it all came back  perfect, carry on

I am not confessing to know all about the market but i certainly feel you are either a developer or in their pocket or affiliated with an agency with the rhetoric agenda you seem to be pushing here . I only know what i know & can only say what i know .

 

 Strangely enough back in late 2011 & riding around i said to my friend are you sure about this it seems to be far too much construction going on here ,but my friend who i didn't know was getting commission on the sale of said condos back then said no man the place is booming

 

Please be realistic here & if anybody is unsure just go to any realty agent online in pattaya & take a look at the numerous pages of listings & not only that some show how many days listed with some approaching 1000 days

 

I would prefer you to be correct so don't get me wrong for i still have a fair sum invested here but i do however wish i didn't

I would rather say it is booming & it took me 3 months to sell my condos & i made 150 or 200 000 baht but that is not the case thank you very much

[whatwasithinking]

12 minutes ago, whatwasithinking said:

LOL if you had of done such due diligence as you stated back in 2011 or 2012 these developments including the waterfront would have came back with what we call in my country a triple A plus rating & i at this time do know somebody who just recently ie withing the last 6 weeks done a due diligence on grand avenue & spent 30 000 baht with possibly the most respected legal company in Pattaya & it all came back  perfect, carry on

I am not confessing to know all about the market but i certainly feel you are either a developer or in their pocket or affiliated with an agency with the rhetoric agenda you seem to be pushing here . I only know what i know & can only say what i know .

 

 Strangely enough back in late 2011 & riding around i said to my friend are you sure about this it seems to be far too much construction going on here ,but my friend who i didn't know was getting commission on the sale of said condos back then said no man the place is booming

 

Please be realistic here & if anybody is unsure just go to any realty agent online in pattaya & take a look at the numerous pages of listings & not only that some show how many days listed with some approaching 1000 days

 

I would prefer you to be correct so don't get me wrong for i still have a fair sum invested here but i do however wish i didn't

I would rather say it is booming & it took me 3 months to sell my condos & i made 150 or 200 000 baht but that is not the case thank you very much

Just to add , if you like a fair degree of risk the last 18 months to even now could be a great short term investment . You buy a condo in a fire sale situation which is well below market & sell for a smallish profit of 100 to 150 000 baht . However i will never invest overseas again & certainly not Thailand

 

But you need to face the facts & simply looking on line at the condo resale market it is blatantly obvious there are far to many condos available for the interested buyers out there so please prove me wrong

[teddog]

9 hours ago, whatwasithinking said:

Just to add , if you like a fair degree of risk the last 18 months to even now could be a great short term investment . You buy a condo in a fire sale situation which is well below market & sell for a smallish profit of 100 to 150 000 baht . However i will never invest overseas again & certainly not Thailand

 

But you need to face the facts & simply looking on line at the condo resale market it is blatantly obvious there are far to many condos available for the interested buyers out there so please prove me wrong

9

Not just condos,houses too,upmarket ones as well.   Not looking at fire sales and re-sales but blight that surely will be on them soon enough.  Yes in one, lease coming to end, owner desperately wants me to buy, all sorts of offers, but empty houses abound, nobody pays maintenance fees ,so estate goes to the dogs.  Im a renter, but owners pressuring renters to pay full fees as their expense grows, once was rent free is now a burden 3 to 4x fees they have to find to keep up appearances....No thanks I'm outa here, condos worse hit

[JSixpack]

10 hours ago, whatwasithinking said:

LOL if you had of done such due diligence as you stated back in 2011 or 2012 these developments including the waterfront would have came back with what we call in my country a triple A plus rating

 

There's no due diligence as far as I'm concerned to be done on any off plan development. Due diligence is when you investigate an established complex w/ management in place and rent there for a while to be completely sure about it before you buy. And real estate in Thailand should be only a small part of your total portfolio if you buy. And it should not be for speculative purposes, unless you're a well-heeled speculator who knows what he's doing.

 

Again, buying off plan here in this Third World country is either for fools or the well-heeled who know what they're doing.  Basically you were just speculating without knowing what you were doing, with money you could ill afford to lose, and reaped the inevitable consequences. And now come here to whinge about it and construct little straw men. Very TVF, really.

 

Quote

I am not confessing to know all about the market

 

To have such a gift for understatement can only be accounted a blessing.

 

Quote

but i certainly feel you are either a developer or in their pocket or affiliated with an agency with the rhetoric agenda you seem to be pushing here .

 

No. In fact you have no evidence I'm pushing any agenda. As I said, any mere owner who posts any objective viewpoint on any CONDO GLUT or FOOLS BUY REAL ESTATE thread will quickly be demonized as nothing less than a real estate agent--the most hated in the pantheon of TVF poster villains. Or an owner who's desperate to sell and trying to talk up the market. After all, everybody's heading for exits. So silly.

 

You've yet to come up with any specific point that you disagree with me about. On the contrary, you've merely proved my point, thank you.

 

Quote

I would prefer you to be correct so don't get me wrong for i still have a fair sum invested here but i do however wish i didn't

 

Again, you've yet to cite any specific point on which I'm incorrect. So far you're merely flailing against a straw man, some imagined "promoter" claiming a "boom" and guaranteed profits and no glut. As I told you, there is no such poster here and never has been.

 

You'll need to quote the exact statement I made that you think is wrong rather than continuing to spout nonsense. Nobody cares about your foolish investments for what for you were clearly the wrong reasons.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2017 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

 

Quote

As for buying off plan, a couple of years ago i didn't hear anyone warn against buying. Now everyone appears wise in hindsight.

 

Obviously you weren't listening. Such warnings have been around far longer than just a couple years ago, as off plan purchases have always been a problem. Nothing new here at all, you see, just the latest tale of woe from someone too naive, inexperienced, and under capitalized to be speculating in Third World real estate.

 

[topt]

39 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

As for buying off plan, a couple of years ago i didn't hear anyone warn against buying. Now everyone appears wise in hindsight

You either have a poor memory or did not read as much. Try this thread from 2011 and there are many more recent.......

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/393295-the-park-jomtien/?page=4#comment-4566709

[Rimmer]

Some baiting flaming and bickering has been removed

[scubascuba3]

You either have a poor memory or did not read as much. Try this thread from 2011 and there are many more recent.......
https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/393295-the-park-jomtien/?page=4#comment-4566709

I didn't use TV back then its too negative for me. I was referring to people you meet in the real world, not one person was talking about not buying off plan. Personally i wouldn't buy off plan anyway, but the large majority of people who did didn't have a problem.

[Asiantravel]

17 hours ago, whatwasithinking said:

Just to add , if you like a fair degree of risk the last 18 months to even now could be a great short term investment . You buy a condo in a fire sale situation which is well below market & sell for a smallish profit of 100 to 150 000 baht . However i will never invest overseas again & certainly not Thailand

 

But you need to face the facts & simply looking on line at the condo resale market it is blatantly obvious there are far to many condos available for the interested buyers out there so please prove me wrong

it will be interesting to see what happens here once the overly generous and quite unrealistic rental guarantees that were offered by the developers as an inducement to buy start to expire

Edited June 13, 2017 by Asiantravel

[LongTimeLurker]

18 hours ago, JSixpack said:

It bothers our renters if owners dare admit they like living in their condos and aren't worried and desperate to sell in accordance with the myth

I am such an owner.

 

Owned 1 condo property which if I'd have rented I'd have spent more money than I paid for it. Sold it at a modest profit.

 

Current one much the same. Owning already saved me rent in the long term and I can get my money back when I sell in another 10 years time.

 

(yes I know about opportunity cost and what I could have done with the money other than buy)

 

I think the biggest obstacle to buyers is the lack of mortgage availability for Farangs here so purchases are effectively made in cash. So not many can afford to buy a decent place that's already completed, hence the glut of 1 million Baht small units sold off-plan.