Chaos, confusion, confrontation and conning...Pattaya Immigration

[Lovethailandelite]

2 hours ago, wobalt said:

How do you know that, any evidence? The TM30, which should be done by the corresponding business owners, is more ..."fit"?? Obviously not in Jomtien , otherwise they would not need the help from temporary staying aliens.

Go back to the Erawan shrine bombing. They couldn't find the perpetrators as they had never ever checked in to or stayed where it stated on the TM6. Hence they revived the old law that dates back to 1979 if I am correct. Then take a look at the response to some posts where people ask what to put on there TM6 landing card and the stupid response of 'Just put anything HAHAHA!' And you ask for evidence that it's not working? The TM30 is for everybody, not just business owners so I have no idea where you get that from? Why do suppose immigration are being helped by temporary staying aliens? If you having a poke at anyone who is complying, then maybe these temporary Aliens, wish to be 'Legal temporary Aliens' rather than being a brazen 'Ilegal Temporary Alien' which clearly people are under the law as it stands if they wish not to comply. Maybe people wouldn't be quite so brazen if at there next extension, they actually received it but only for 7 days to pack up and leave the country for being here , entering and leaving continually and failing to comply? I wouldn't even go down the route of trying to tell me it wouldn't happen because as has been seen in the past, lots of things change and happen and happen very quickly.
Have a nice day.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

News to me and those living in Udon province. No reports of tm30 required AFIK, personal experience of being told not needed.

 

I have friends living in Udon that are having to comply each and every time they leave and then re-enter the country.

[wobalt]

Go back to the Erawan shrine bombing. They couldn't find the perpetrators as they had never ever checked in to or stayed where it stated on the TM6. Hence they revived the old law that dates back to 1979 if I am correct. Then take a look at the response to some posts where people ask what to put on there TM6 landing card and the stupid response of 'Just put anything HAHAHA!' And you ask for evidence that it's not working? The TM30 is for everybody, not just business owners so I have no idea where you get that from? Why do suppose immigration are being helped by temporary staying aliens? If you having a poke at anyone who is complying, then maybe these temporary Aliens, wish to be 'Legal temporary Aliens' rather than being a brazen 'Ilegal Temporary Alien' which clearly people are under the law as it stands if they wish not to comply. Maybe people wouldn't be quite so brazen if at there next extension, they actually received it but only for 7 days to pack up and leave the country for being here , entering and leaving continually and failing to comply? I wouldn't even go down the route of trying to tell me it wouldn't happen because as has been seen in the past, lots of things change and happen and happen very quickly.
Have a nice day.

Well, after living in Thailand since decades I have a different opinion than you.
As you said, TM 6 (foreigner) and TM30 (hotel business, house owner..) are in use since 1979 and are working well in more than 90% of all cases since then. So if Jomtien see here a problem, why they not charge the ones that are responsible for that? Because they are likely Thai and they want to avoid confrontation? Because they know that it would be possibly difficult to fine them? So why not fine "weak" foreigners with no legal rights instead?
Everything said.

[Lovethailandelite]

6 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Well, after living in Thailand since decades I have a different opinion than you.
As you said, TM 6 (foreigner) and TM30 (hotel business, house owner..) are in use since 1979 and are working well in more than 90% of all cases since then. So if Jomtien see here a problem, why they not charge the ones that are responsible for that? Because they are likely Thai and they want to avoid confrontation? Because they know that it would be possibly difficult to fine them? So why not fine "weak" foreigners with no legal rights instead?
Everything said.

Not a problem for you to have an opinion  
That doesn't negate the need to comply with the law though that foreigners need to be notified or notify where they are staying.
As for the rest of your post, ask Jomtien and the other offices that are enforcing it why? and you'll get the same answer as I have just given you. 

[Elfin]

When I arrived back in Chiang Mai last month armed with a filled- in TM30, my wife at first did not believe me that we had to go to Immi until a neighbour told her of the fines if we didn't go. 

As I arrived on a Friday night we could not go til the Monday so I was expecting a fine. We went to Promenado to the 2nd floor to the TM 30 office to get processed. No fine and got a receipt. The polite man told my wife to just bring the receipt next time and no need to fill out another TM 30 form unless the receipt is lost.

[KittenKong]

9 hours ago, joebrown said:

I am at a total loss to understand why there is a requirement to notify your local IO within 24hrs that you've arrived/returned to an address in Thailand using Form 28/30.

 

I put my address on my TM6 whenever I arrive in Thailand. I put it on my retirement extension application every year. It's on all my re-entry permit requests. It's on my 90-day report that I do every 90 days. It's on the back of my driving licence, on my car registration book, on the chanote of my condo and on my tax return. Perhaps I should have it tattooed on my forehead as well?

 

This TM28/30 requirement seems complete overkill and above all utterly pointless to me.

[abab]

10 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

How do you propose to do that without using an extension at an immigration office or obtaining Non O etc ?

 

 

You don't need any official address to get a non-o, and more important, you never need to talk to any immigration office where problems always start !

 

 

[mommysboy]

It's a frustrating problem, because essentially they can be fining people for something the landlord has failed to do: namely, notify Thai Immigration of the name and address of someone living in their property or staying at their hotel. Only in Thailand!

 

[mrfaroukh]

If they don't report within 24 hours they probably will be fined may be that is what you seen.

[Destiny1990]

4 hours ago, mommysboy said:

It's a frustrating problem, because essentially they can be fining people for something the landlord has failed to do: namely, notify Thai Immigration of the name and address of someone living in their property or staying at their hotel. Only in Thailand!

 

But how should a landlord always know the exact whereabouts of his tenant?Thats impossible..Then the landlord can be even abroad himself??Seems to me the tenant need to notify himself each time at immi and if he doesnt he gets the fine.

[ToS2014]

On 2/28/2017 at 9:45 PM, onemorechang said:

I have always believed i was never a welcome guest in Thailand.

Maybe i was right all along.

 

 

On the flip side of the coin, perhaps certain IMOs are attempting to locate all the individuals that are not following, or attempting to follow IMO rules.  Indeed, the 90 checks are a bit of pain; however, Jomtien's office processes these quite quickly.  The annual stack of papers, duplicated and signed for every year I stay on my NON-O, is quite a headache as each time there are runs back and forth to get 'something new'. 

 

And yes, while it is sometimes a pain personally, my landlord has voiced her 'pains' with the same office is they require her to run back and forth too!

Edited March 2, 2017 by ToS2014

[Asiantravel]

5 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

But how should a landlord always know the exact whereabouts of his tenant?Thats impossible..Then the landlord can be even abroad himself??Seems to me the tenant need to notify himself each time at immi and if he doesnt he gets the fine.

i don't believe that's the way it works. My interpretation (I might be wrong ) is that once you leave your landlords premises his/her responsibility ends temporarily. If I'm staying in Bangkok and I go to Chiang Mai for a couple of weeks, then the owner of my accommodation in Chiang Mai then becomes responsible for reporting my arrival up there and your landlord will only be responsible for going through the same exercise again upon your return.

And regarding your comment that and the notify tenant needs to himself or herself you might remember in the original post it was said they will not accept this. Only the landlord can do this.

I would like to know how the medium-sized hotels are dealing with this. If the online system isn't working, how to the  hotels physically report the arrival of each guest within 24 hours?

[Asiantravel]

9 hours ago, mommysboy said:

It's a frustrating problem, because essentially they can be fining people for something the landlord has failed to do: namely, notify Thai Immigration of the name and address of someone living in their property or staying at their hotel. Only in Thailand!

 

I would like to know if this sounds feasible. If the landlord in Pattaya has failed to notify immigration within 24 hours I still don't believe anyone on a tourist visa should ultimately theoretically get caught with having to pay a hefty  fine in Jomtien upon the extension of their Visa. Because they always have the choice of moving to a different location temporarily for the extension application itself. You're a tourist anyway so that's what you're meant to be doing i.e. moving around  in Thailand so why can't you check into a hotel somewhere else (e.g. Bangkok, Chantaburi  etc )  the night before you intend to apply for the visa extension and just make sure upon your arrival at the hotel that you tell the what you are going to be doing the next morning and insist that they must notify immigration immediately about your arrival at the hotel.

[the guest]

Unless you have your 5 year residency book, all Foreigners are tourists regardless of how long you have lived in Thailand. Of course you are only a guest in the country. Those that are thinking they have status in this country are delusional.

[brewsterbudgen]

News to me and those living in Udon province. No reports of tm30 required AFIK, personal experience of being told not needed.
 

Ditto in Bangkok. It just seems to be certain Imm offices who require it.

[Stargeezr]

I am saying that Thailand is a country that needs to overhaul their visa program. Mexico lets 

visitors into Mexico without a visa, for up to 6 months. You need a valid passport, and your money.

Mexico knows how much money the tourists are spending, and appreciates their visitors.

Thailand makes it very frusterating, with all the crappy 60 day visas for this amount, or a 90

day visa that is harder to obtain. If you want a longer visa, you have to show that you are

relatively rich. The new 10 visa rumour was only for the filthy rich who can afford to open

a 3 million baht ban, account that they cannot touch for a year. How nice  to be rich like that.

When most people spend 4 to 6 million baht on a house in their Thai wife's name, they do not have

that extra 3 million baht kicking around.  So yes I would say that Thailand is a back woods country

that has to advance into the 21 century. So in future I will make sure that my visa covers my entire stay

in the country so I do not need to see Bangkok's fancy immigration building and staff again.

Geezer

[Lovethailandelite]

7 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

I am saying that Thailand is a country that needs to overhaul their visa program. Mexico lets 

visitors into Mexico without a visa, for up to 6 months. You need a valid passport, and your money.

Mexico knows how much money the tourists are spending, and appreciates their visitors.

Thailand makes it very frusterating, with all the crappy 60 day visas for this amount, or a 90

day visa that is harder to obtain. If you want a longer visa, you have to show that you are

relatively rich. The new 10 visa rumour was only for the filthy rich who can afford to open

a 3 million baht ban, account that they cannot touch for a year. How nice  to be rich like that.

When most people spend 4 to 6 million baht on a house in their Thai wife's name, they do not have

that extra 3 million baht kicking around.  So yes I would say that Thailand is a back woods country

that has to advance into the 21 century. So in future I will make sure that my visa covers my entire stay

in the country so I do not need to see Bangkok's fancy immigration building and staff again.

Geezer

Like Europe you mean? Why shouldn't people that can afford the correct visas and money here have them? You hardly need to be filthy rich to have 3 million baht in a bank. There are enough low lifes here as it is without encouraging more of them that cannot afford to be here. They need to make it harder, not easier. Anybody that wants to stay here needs to be able to prove the funds and not a silly 20,000bht either which is barely enough for a decent night out.
Back on Topic. The thread is regarding TM28 and TM30 reporting which includes everybody, money or not and not about making it easier to get visas's.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Lovethailandelite

[JackThompson]

On 3/1/2017 at 2:08 AM, chickenslegs said:

My real point is that, with hundreds of people passing through Jomtien Immigration every day, we have very few (just one AFAIK) examples of people being fined for no TM30.

Maybe folks who have been fined will read this and give us more examples. Maybe the foreign volunteers at Jomtien can tell us how many offenders have been caught out.

The people I saw being fined - while I was there doing my TM-30 report (after returning to my same-residence after being gone) - evidently did not post their report here.  I overheard the whole thing.  They complained about not knowing about this (a reasonable complaint), were sent upstairs to talk to the boss, then came back down and forked over 4000 Baht.  I was only there for 20 mins or so, so who knows how many are being fined per-day.

 

22 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

How do you propose to do that (stay long-term with 90-day border-runs) without using an extension at an immigration office or obtaining Non O etc ?

By obtaining 1-year Multi-Entry Non-O Visas at a Thai Consulate, instead of using extensions.  This can be either based on Marriage, from Savanahkhet, or based on Retirement, at Penang (proof of 800K in a bank in *any* country or Embassy-letter proving income).  The latter is what I plan to do when I turn 50, if the option still exists. 

[Lovethailandelite]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

The people I saw being fined - while I was there doing my TM-30 report (after returning to my same-residence after being gone) - evidently did not post their report here.  I overheard the whole thing.  They complained about not knowing about this (a reasonable complaint), were sent upstairs to talk to the boss, then came back down and forked over 4000 Baht.  I was only there for 20 mins or so, so who knows how many are being fined per-day.

 

By obtaining 1-year Multi-Entry Non-O Visas at a Thai Consulate, instead of using extensions.  This can be either based on Marriage, from Savanahkhet, or based on Retirement, at Penang (proof of 800K in a bank in *any* country or Embassy-letter proving income).  The latter is what I plan to do when I turn 50, if the option still exists. 

 I understand that. I was assuming he was simply an underage visa runner trying to be clever. 

[Destiny1990]

3 hours ago, Asiantravel said:

i don't believe that's the way it works. My interpretation (I might be wrong ) is that once you leave your landlords premises his/her responsibility ends temporarily. If I'm staying in Bangkok and I go to Chiang Mai for a couple of weeks, then the owner of my accommodation in Chiang Mai then becomes responsible for reporting my arrival up there and your landlord will only be responsible for going through the same exercise again upon your return.

And regarding your comment that and the notify tenant needs to himself or herself you might remember in the original post it was said they will not accept this. Only the landlord can do this.

I would like to know how the medium-sized hotels are dealing with this. If the online system isn't working, how to the  hotels physically report the arrival of each guest within 24 hours?

Nice nobody really knows the procedure  and if they do know then its clearly unworkable.Tourists and travelers will feel frustrated to say the least if this is really the reality.

[Lovethailandelite]

13 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Nice nobody really knows the procedure  and if they do know then its clearly unworkable.Tourists and travelers will feel frustrated to say the least if this is really the reality.

Myself and others that have dealt with it have told you what the procedure is but everybody wants to chip in that hasn't even bothered to file one. There really is no point to replying anymore. If people don't want to do it and be here illegally by the law, that's fine but expect major issues at some time in the future with getting your extensions at Jomtien immigration.
That's me done. Over and out 

[Destiny1990]

8 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Myself and others that have dealt with it have told you what the procedure is but everybody wants to chip in that hasn't even bothered to file one. There really is no point to replying anymore. If people don't want to do it and be here illegally by the law, that's fine but expect major issues at some time in the future with getting your extensions at Jomtien immigration.
That's me done. Over and out 

But if the landlord is abroad? or if he is in another city?or when he has simply no idea about his tenant movements then how he can report to immi?As i said its totally unworkable.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 minute ago, Destiny1990 said:

But if the landlord is abroad? or if he is in another city?or when he has simply no idea about his tenant movements then how he can report to immi?As i said its totally unworkable.

The Landlord only needs to do it the first time. After that you can do it on your own. I understand what your saying though but its problem for the landlord and Tenant to work out. If the landlord is out of the country when you first take occupancy, then maybe the agent is ok to do it first time. It seems to be a new directive over the last day or so. I am sure there is a workaround somewhere.

[dbrenn]

Does this silly rule also apply to Thailand Elite visa holders? 

[wobalt]

The Landlord only needs to do it the first time. After that you can do it on your own. I understand what your saying though but its problem for the landlord and Tenant to work out. If the landlord is out of the country when you first take occupancy, then maybe the agent is ok to do it first time. It seems to be a new directive over the last day or so. I am sure there is a workaround somewhere.

Are you sure you can do it by your own.? AFAIK it should be a Thai national to be authorized by limited POA. This would make sense from the claimed security aspect.

[Breizh]

My wife and I went yesterday to Jomtien immigration to submit TM30 and TM28.

We are moving into a new house for which we had the lease agreement with my wife being the tenant from March 1^st. She filled the TM30 document, provided a copy of the lease contract, copy of her ID card, copy of her Tabian Ban, copy of my front page passport, copy of the valid visa page and copy of my TM6 to report me as living in the house she is the tenant.

I filled the TM28 and made copy of the necessary pages of my passport to report my address change.

The room was packed at 1.30PM and I could hear a few people complaining about the hefty fine they were receiving for not reporting in due time.

After an hour we were sitting in front of the officer who told us that the TM28 was no longer needed. Everything was fine with the documents my wife provided and we were given the receipt of the TM30. The officer insisted on the fact that she should fine me as I never submitted a TM30 before but I was forgiven for this time!!! I asked her if I should report each time I come back from a trip out of Thailand, the answer was “yes, within 24 hours”. Do I have to report when I come back from a trip outside Chonburi province, the answer was “if you left the province for more than 24 hours, yes”.

The girl sitting next to her was stamping the fine receipts in advance, probably expecting to fill a few in the coming hours.

[Evilbaz]

58 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Does this silly rule also apply to Thailand Elite visa holders? 

Why Not?

They are not "special"!

[dbrenn]

31 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

Why Not?

They are not "special"!

Well they do get special visas.  

[Evilbaz]

9 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Well they do get special visas.  

Which they pay handsomely for - but not special Immi rules.

[garyk]

I just went threw this in Chiang Mai. If you have a wife and house here you need to have her report within 24 hours of arriving. If not they fine her.

If you are at a hotel then the hotel has to report. I live in hotels and they refused to give me a Retirement visa until I cleared it up.

I think a 1800 baht fine for the hotel. I re-inversed the hotel and thanked them for going down and clearing it up.

Personally and I know this is just me. But, it is a pain in the ass to stay here long term. It's not the money at all. It is just a hassle.