AIS Fiber and Playbox Review Comments

[SooKee]

Mine is 184.xxx They took me off the cgnat when I complained about international speed. That discussion is still ongoing...

 

184 on both right? Interesting. If that's the case and Pib is the same, I might have to complain about international speed. Public IPv4 would be useful for me (Plex remote access) but not worth 200 pm currently as I don't use it enough.  

 

 

Had a couple of buddies recently thought that they had public IPv4 when their addresses changed to 184. They still couldn't get Plex to work however. Checking their WAN IP address revealed they were still behind a CG NAT. Plex Media Server was also picking it up.

 

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[ExpatOilWorker]

41 minutes ago, touch said:

Mine is 184.xxx

They took me off the cgnat when I complained about international speed. That discussion is still ongoing...

My IP address is 192.xxx also using AIS. Is 184 better or no difference?

[Pib]

6 hours ago, SooKee said:

I'd be VERY surprised if you have a public IPv4 from AIS if you aren't specifically paying for it since it's not something that would happened by accident or as a result of them trying to fix something else.  WhatsMyIP also shows me as having a 184 IP address.  However the WAN IP is a 100 address. 

.

Are you saying that when you look under 'Network Map' (top item in the RT AC 86U menu) / 'Network Status' it shows your WAN IP address as being a 184 address?  Ordinarily, if behind their NAT, that IP would still be a 100 address .

You could see if you have a public IPv4 address "not behind the AIS CGNAT"  by looking in the "AIS-provided router in the WAN menu selection."  If you have a public IPv4 address vs a private IPv4 address issued through the AIS CGNAT it will show a 184 series IP address vs a 100 series IP address in one of the selections.  If you see a 100 series anywhere on that page that means you are behind the CGNAT.  But once your AIS router is set to bridge mode you can not get into the firmware menu anymore to look so that's not really an option anymore when the router has been set to bridge mode..

  

Yes, you can still see a IPv4 address when using one of those websites that show your IP address...and it will show in your  personal router like your 86U.    But that could be a "public or private" IPv4 address.  If a "private" IPv4 address that is geek talk for being behind a CGNAT which does some IP translation to give you an IPv4 address.  Where a public IPv4 address is not issued by a CGNAT...you are not behind a CGNAT.

 

Quote

Carrier-grade NAT (CGN), also known as large-scale NAT (LSN), is an approach to IPv4 network design in which end sites, in particular residential networks, are configured with private network addresses that are translated to public IPv4 addresses by middleboxnetwork address translator devices embedded in the network operator's network, permitting the sharing of small pools of public addresses among many end sites. This shifts the NAT function and configuration thereof from the customer premises to the Internet service provider network.

 

Now, I can't be sure is what a person's personal router like your 86U would show in it's WAN menu area when behind an AIS-provided bridge router.  I think maybe you are saying about you see a 100 series IP address in your 86U on the Network Map page?   In my 86U I see a 184 series.    

 

Maybe some AIS customer who does "not" have his "AIS-provided" router set to bridge mode can post a snapshot of their WAN page.

[Pib]

4 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

My IP address is 192.xxx also using AIS. Is 184 better or no difference?

That's your internal home network private IP address issued by your router as a router's gateway/starting IP address is usually 192.168.1.1 (or very close to that), which also happens to be the IP address you use to access your router's firmware menu.   

 

With your router's starting/base IP address of 192.168.1.1 every device connected your router like your computer, smartphone, Playbox, etc....etc....etc...will be issued a home network privte IP address of like 192.168.1.2,  192.168.1.3,  192.168.1.18, etc.  Say you had 10 devices connected to the router via ethernet/Wifi the router would issue out 10 different private 192 series IP addresses so each device has its own home network IP address.

 

Your home network IP address in the 192 series is "not" the private/public IPv4 address being talked....the IPv4 address controlled/issued by your ISP.  

 

Now your router will communicate on the world wide internet by using IP addresses issued/control by your ISP but the "NAT" function within your router will also use its 192 primate IP addresses to complete the connection----the connection portion "within your home/controlled by your router."    Below googled up description explains better.

 

Quote

Public (external) IP addresses

A public (or external) IP address is the one that your ISP (Internet Service Provider) provides to identify your home network to the outside world. It is an IP address that is unique throughout the entire Internet.

Depending on your service, you might have an IP address that never changes (a fixed, or static IP address). But most ISPs provide an IP address that can change from time to time (a dynamic IP address). For the vast majority of users, a dynamic IP address is fine.

When you're setting up your router, if your ISP issued you a static IP address, you enter it into your router's settings. For a dynamic IP address, you specify DHCP in your router's network settings. DHCP is Dynamic Host Control Protocol. It tells your router to accept whatever public IP address your ISP issues.

Private (internal) IP addresses

Just as your network's public IP address is issued by your ISP, your router issues private (or internal) IP addresses to each network device inside your network. This provides unique identification for devices that are within your home network, such as your computer, your Slingbox, and so on.

Similar to the arrangement with public IP addresses, each device on your network has its network configuration settings on DHCP, so it can accept the unique private IP address that your router issues it.

These private IP addresses never leave your network, just as your public IP address is never used inside your network. The router controls all the network traffic, both within your home network and outside of it, to the Internet. It is the router's job to make sure that data flows to and from all the correct places.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

I did some googling to find a snapshot of the AIS-provided Hauwei HG8245H I have so I could better explain where to look for the IP address issued by AIS.   Although I couldn't google up a H model I did find an A model shown below and the pretty sure this page is identical the H model. 

 

Anyway, under Status, WAN Information your IP address(es) issued by AIS will be shown.   For the IPv4 it will be shown in the IP Acquisition Mode/IP Address field and if you have a public IPv4 it will reflect a 184 series....if a CGNAT issued the IP address should be a 100 series if I remember right.  And if you have IPv6 activate you see that address down in the IPv6 Information area otherwise it will say Disconnected I think/if I remember right. 

 

As earlier mentioned my AIS router has been in bridge mode for about a month now and I can no longer access the firmware menus to give an actual snapshot from my setup.

 

 

[touch]

I just did a tracert on my IP (184.xxx) and it's just one hop. That should indicate that there is no cgnat present.

[Pib]

28 minutes ago, touch said:

I just did a tracert on my IP (184.xxx) and it's just one hop. That should indicate that there is no cgnat present.

Ditto for me.

 

[Pib]

Below post talks using the tracert method to try to determine if you are behind a CGNAT.  If you see any 100 series hops then that indicates you are behind a CGNAT.   And AIS does use the 100 series for their CGNAT because I use to see that before in the AIS-provided router firmware like already talked about.  But at that time I never did a tracert to confirm a tracert would indeed show the 100 series CGNAT like being shown in the router firmware menu.   With all the transparent (i.e., hidden) servers an ISP might use in their network it can be hard to determine certain things. 

 

Hopefully some outher AIS Fibre users will do a tracert on their IP address and report what they see....like just one hop to their IP address or some extra hops such as maybe a 100 series IP address hop.

 

https://superuser.com/questions/713422/how-would-i-test-to-see-if-im-behind-carrier-grade-or-regular-nat

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

38 minutes ago, Pib said:

Below post talks using the tracert method to try to determine if you are behind a CGNAT.  If you see any 100 series hops then that indicates you are behind a CGNAT.   And AIS does use the 100 series for their CGNAT because I use to see that before in the AIS-provided router firmware like already talked about.  But at that time I never did a tracert to confirm a tracert would indeed show the 100 series CGNAT like being shown in the router firmware menu.   With all the transparent (i.e., hidden) servers an ISP might use in their network it can be hard to determine certain things. 

 

Hopefully some outher AIS Fibre users will do a tracert on their IP address and report what they see....like just one hop to their IP address or some extra hops such as maybe a 100 series IP address hop.

 

https://superuser.com/questions/713422/how-would-i-test-to-see-if-im-behind-carrier-grade-or-regular-nat

 

How do you do a tracert?

 

"If you want to determine CGN and you don't have access to the CPE, then your best bet would be to do a tracert"

[Pib]

First look up your IP address using some website like whatismyipaddress.   Let's say it's 184.28.222.22

 

Select the "Command Prompt or Command Prompt Admin" selection from your Windows popup menu in the lower left hand corner of your screen.   A small black command windows will appear.

 

Now type the command:  tracert 184.28.222.22

 

Press Enter/Return and wait for the results.

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

15 minutes ago, Pib said:

First look up your IP address using some website like whatismyipaddress.   Let's say it's 184.28.222.22

 

Select the "Command Prompt or Command Prompt Admin" selection from your Windows popup menu in the lower left hand corner of your screen.   A small black command windows will appear.

 

Now type the command:  tracert 184.28.222.22

 

Press Enter/Return and wait for the results.

 

 

Tracing route to 184.xxx.... over a maximum of 30 hops

 

1    1 ms   <1 ms    1 ms   KKDV2 -2 ......

2     42 ms  23 ms   42 ms  49.228.3.3

.........Requested timed out

 

No idea what it all means.

 

NB: I did Run > cmd to get the little black screen. Hope that was right.

 

 

[Pib]

Just to confirm you did "not" use the 184.28.222.22 address I gave above did you as that was just for example.

 

You need to lookup your current 184 address and use that with the tracert command.

 

And yea, just entering cmd to get to the small black screen is same-same as getting to it from the command prompt selection.

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

Just to confirm you did "not" use the 184.28.222.22 address I gave above did you as that was just for example.

 

You need to lookup your current 184 address and use that with the tracert command

I used my actual IP address as provided by: https://whatismyipaddress.com

 

[Pib]

Well, I would say you are behind the CGNAT.....and since you can't reach your own IP address that's because being behind the CGNAT which is "breaking the loop" so to speak.   

 

Go into your router and look under the WAN Status area as talked earlier and you'll probably find a 100 series IP address...the CGNAT IP address.

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

Well, I would say you are behind the CGNAT.....and since you can't reach your own IP address that's because being behind the CGNAT which is "breaking the loop" so to speak.   

 

Go into your router and look under the WAN Status area as talked earlier and you'll probably find a 100 series IP address...the CGNAT IP address.

Is it bad to be behind a CGNAT?

 

I will check the router tomorrow. I guess I have to connect with a CAT-5 cable. I am on wifi now.

[JaiMaai]

Is it bad to be behind a CGNAT?
 
I will check the router tomorrow. I guess I have to connect with a CAT-5 cable. I am on wifi now.

For most "normal" usage - not really. The problems will arise when you need to "open ports" for IP cameras or other applications where you need to access specific devices on your home network from the Internet.

The shared external IP could also conceivably create some issues where it could get blocked by someone else creating too much traffic to a given website but how likely this is, I don't really know.

Sent from my ZX81 using a dial-up modem.

[Pib]

I think below "Europol Calls..." weblink is a good article on explaining why CGNAT is needed, why more ISPs are using them due to the shortage of IPv4 addresses which ran out a few years ago, and some other CGNAT cons that don't really affect most internet users.   

 

The cost of transitioning to IPv6 can also be a factor in using a CGNAT for IPv4 address management, but AIS provides both IPv4 and IPv6 capability.   IPv6 has a gazillion, gazillion addresses....the world (or universe) will never run out  IPv6 address; unlike the mere approx 4 billion IPv4 addresses that ran out a few years ago. 

 

AIS was the first among the major Thai ISPs to upgrade their system to handle both IPv4 and IPv6.   So, if AIS has IPv6 capability then why keep their IPv4 capability?  Why even use a CGNAT for IPv4 management?  Well, that's because the great major of sites you want to connect to around the world are still IPv4 capable only/only have IPv4 addresses; haven't been upgraded to also handle IPv6 yet....probably another decade before the IPv4 to IPv6 transition is mostly done.  Right now only around 20% of the internet has adapted to also use IPv6 addressing....but that percentage is now beginning to rapidly increase....you can look at this Google IPv6 Adoption Stats page for more info if desired.

 

Europol Calls on Internet Providers to End CGNAT IP Address Sharing

A partial quote from above....click on above to see full article.

Quote

 

Generally everybody needs an Internet Protocol (IP) address to go online and your ISP is responsible for assigning one to your connection (it’s the internet equivalent of a phone number). Most fixed line ISPs tend to use Dynamic IP addresses for domestic connectivity, which changes each time your broadband link is disconnected and isn’t shared with other subscribers (not at the same time you’re using it).

Some providers will also allow you to take a Static IP address, which remains the same no matter how many times you switch the connection on and off (usually more of a premium / business feature). However the shift from the old IPv4 (ran out of spare addresses) to newer IPv6 addressing system has caused some providers, which don’t have a large stockpile of IPv4s, to adopt Carrier Grade Network Address Translation(CGN).

 

 

[JaiMaai]

Interestingly enough this would suggest that if you are "up to no good" by streaming or downloading things you may not be supposed to then being behind a CGNAT system is something you want.....

 

 

[Pib]

And since we have ended up talking IPv6 a lot you can check to see if your current connection is setup for IPv6 by running the quick test are either of these two IPv6 testing sites.  The results from the test will show if you also have IPv6 connectivity, your IPv4 and IPv6 addresses, and other info.    I have both IPv4 and IPv6 on my AIS Fibre account.

http://test-ipv6.com/

 

http://ipv6-test.com/

 

Now keep in mind to have IPv6 "your ISP has to have IPv6 capability and activated/connected on your account."   Just because the ISP has IPv6 capability does not necessarily mean it's activated on your account...you may have to ask them to activate it...it's free. 

 

And, you also may have to activated Internet Protocol Ver 6 (TCP/IPv6) on your computer/device and your router.  By default IPv6 is activated on Windows, however, but, sometimes even when it shows activated in Windows you still may have to run a simple Microsoft Easy Fix program (just takes a few seconds) to fully activate IPv6 on your Windows device. 

 

I had to do this on one of my two Windows computers...just takes a few seconds to run.   If IPv6 is not fully activated on your computer/router (i.e., it's turned off) even if the ISP has activated IPv6 on your account you will not have IPv6 capability until you activate IPv6 on your computer and router. Yes, your router may have a firmware menu selection for IPv6 that needs to be turned on....my Asus routers do.  And some devices, like the Nvidia Shield 2017 has a IPv6 on/off setting in its Settings. 

 

But IPv6 comes with some issues also like some sites you try to connect getting confused in seeing IPv4 and IPv6 addresses coming from your computer and the site don't work properly.  And the reason the sites don't work properly is because it has not upgraded to be fully compatible with IPv6 yet....basically, it's still a IPv4 only site.  Some video streaming sites have this problem.   To resolve this problem you should only need to turn off the IPv6 on your computer/device; no need to call your ISP and ask them to deactivate IPv6 on your account.  Basically, just deactivate IPv6 on your end; not on the ISP end of your account. 

 

Heck, even the popular speed testing site of testmy.net gets confused in identifying your location and logging your test results properly when IPv6 is activated on your computer.  The test still runs fine but your location and other info is not identified properly and gets mislogged in their database.  It's basically an IPv4-only compatible site (just as speedtest.net is) but the IPv6 address coming from your computer in addition to the IPv4 address confuses testmy.net somewhat.  Bbut on another popular speed tester of Speedtest.net it does not.  Just depends on the site your are connecting to...is it fully IPv6 compatible yet or still dragging feet in upgrading for whatever reasons.

 

I know all this talk on IPv4, IPv6, CGNAT, IP Addresses, etc., can be confusing but a person should try to get a basic understanding of them to help minimize or eliminate some interneting headaches/problems.   Lord knows I'm no expert on them...in fact, just a couple  months ago talking IPv6, CGNAT, private IP, public IP, etc., would just cause my eyes to glaze over as it was all greek to me....but after some googling/self-learning I feel a lot less dumb on those subjects now....gives me more time to concentrate on drinking beer.

 

 

[Pib]

35 minutes ago, JaiMaai said:

Interestingly enough this would suggest that if you are "up to no good" by streaming or downloading things you may not be supposed to then being behind a CGNAT system is something you want.....

 

 

Yeap, such folks as anonymous keyboard warriors and others who want to remain deeply hidden in the bushes should appreciate being behind a CGNAT as it can add some additional bush coverage.

[SooKee]

 
Now, I can't be sure is what a person's personal router like your 86U would show in it's WAN menu area when behind an AIS-provided bridge router.  I think maybe you are saying about you see a 100 series IP address in your 86U on the Network Map page?   In my 86U I see a 184 series.    
 
Maybe some AIS customer who does "not" have his "AIS-provided" router set to bridge mode can post a snapshot of their WAN page.

But it's simple. If your AIS router is set to bridge mode you can't get into it because it's passing the whole function off to your own router. So, if you're behind a CGNAT, and your AIS router was not in bridge mode, you would see a 100 address on your router in addition to whatever your what's my IP service was showing, just as (with an Asus 86U) you'd see the 100 address under Status / Network / WAN IP, as I said above. If you see the same non 100 number on both you aren't behind a CGNAT. No need to make finding this out harder than it needs to be.

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[Pib]

No, if you AIS router is not set to bridge mode you will see a 192 series IP passed to you personal router.

If the AIS router is set to bridge mode and you are behind the CGNAT you see a 100 series IP passed to your personal router.

If the AIS router is set to bridge mode and you are not behind the CGNAT/have a public IP you'll have a 184 series passed to your personal router.

[SooKee]

No, if you AIS router is not set to bridge mode you will see a 192 series IP passed to you personal router.

If the AIS router is set to bridge mode and you are behind the CGNAT you see a 100 series IP passed to your personal router.

If the AIS router is set to bridge mode and you are not behind the CGNAT/have a public IP you'll have a 184 series passed to your personal router.

That's what I said!! When I said your router I meant the AIS router! Assuming that your router is NOT in bridge mode and you are NOT using another router. What's my IP would show 184 and the AIS router shows 100 if behind a CG NAT.

Switch the AIS to bridge and use your own router and your router will show a 100 address under Status and whatsmyip will show the 184.

I was not talking about using an AIS router not in bridge mode AND still using your own router.

Point is, it's easy enough to determine by checking the equipment you have without having to bother with tracert etc.

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[Pib]

35 minutes ago, SooKee said:

Switch the AIS to bridge and use your own router and your router will show a 100 address under Status and whatsmyip will show the 184.
 

No.  My AIS router is in bridge mode...and it's feeding a 184 public IP not a 100 IP to my personal router as shown below because I'm apparently no longer behind the CGNAT.

 

Take a look at your personal router since you AIS router is also set to bridge mode and if you see a 100 series instead being fed to your personal router you are behind the CGNAT.  

 

When it comes to what IP address whatismyipaddress reports, it reports the IPv4 address it sees on the AIS side of the CGNAT; not on your side of the CGNAT where it could be a 100 or other series.

[shady86]

Out of topic question, anyone used CS Loxinfo fiber? There is a 50% promo got 12 months in my condo and they can support 100mbps for 1,100baht. I'm thinking for stopping AIS after my trial for Platinum HD runs out in 3 months time.

[SooKee]

No.  My AIS router is in bridge mode...and it's feeding a 184 public IP not a 100 IP to my personal router as shown below because I'm apparently no longer behind the CGNAT.  

Take a look at your personal router since you AIS router is also set to bridge mode and if you see a 100 series instead being fed to your personal router you are behind the CGNAT.  

 

When it comes to what IP address whatismyipaddress reports, it reports the IPv4 address it sees on the AIS side of the CGNAT; not on your side of the CGNAT where it could be a 100 or other series.

 

 

Aaaarrghhh!!!!! Precisely!!!! You need to READ my posts and the point I've been making. I'm saying it will show a 100 IP address under Status / WAN on your router IF you're behind a CGNAT (which is what all this is about) Sorry, but you really do seem to be going out of your way to not understand what I'm saying. Of course if your NOT behind a CGNAT the IP address on your router will return the same as your whatsmyip is showing. If you are they will be different.   

 

 

As per my post 59 "Are you saying that when you look under 'Network Map' (top item in the RT AC 86U menu) / 'Network Status' it shows your WAN IP address as being a 184 address?  Ordinarily, if behind their NAT, that IP would still be a 100 address."

 

 

Anyway, time to go get on with things, plus I'm out of ideas as to how to explain the same point 10 different ways.

 

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[Pib]

Are you behind a CGNAT based on what your Asus router shows? 

 

Got a snapshot of your Asus router like I gave of mine?  Does it show a 100 or 184 IP series?

[maxpower]

A small spanner in the works for those playing with traceroute.

Hops do not have to be public addresses and might make some ring a double NAT alarm bell.

1   192.168.1.1 1ms None    
2   Oops    Timeout n/a 
3   10.18.25.130    13ms

[JaiMaai]

. deleted

[maxpower]

On 12/11/2017 at 2:42 PM, ExpatOilWorker said:

Could you explain to an earthling what an IPv4 is and in simple terms what use it may have?

 

Feel free to add DDNS and CGNAT to that list.

To best understand CGNAT you should start with why we all have a layer of Network Address Translation (NAT) in our routers and how the all important data packets work with this translation.

 

I have browsed YouTube and found a video that should help most understand whats going on here. It is not necessary for the video to include CGNAT because your ISP CGNAT is just another layer of the same but one that you the customer can't control.