Work permit needed to build your own house?

[CharlieH]

 The issue here like many things in Thailand is "enforcement". What happens on the day and the person stood in front of you probably wearing a uniform and what he/she thinks of the situation.

 

All the "interpretation" of rules wont help you at that point.

Bottom line is how and who is likely to enforce the rules in your area. What happens in area X will be totally different in area Y. There is rarely consistency here as many people know. Requirements for this or that vary from province to province and even more from town to town.

 

So  you know what the rules state,  you know whats "technically" allowed, so YOU make the choice based on your surroundings and local knowledge as to what is likely to be enforced. BUT dont forget to allow for someone who gets p**''d off and decides to report you. Only you will know the likely hood of that.

 

We all take risks in one way or another everyday, make an informed decision, live with the result, whatever that may be in your area in your circumstances. One thing you can guarantee, they will probably all be different.

 

 

[Pungdo]

I built 2 new kitchens on the back of our house last year, after a lot of searching around a couple of years back, I was under the impression that if it is "Your" home then it is ok, but if the neighbours said, "geez I like what you did, can you do the same for me", then the answer would be a definite NO, that would be working and as a prohibited occupation for foreigners, no work permit would ever be gained.

 

The way I see it "Work" can be defined as anything you can pay a Thai to do, so using that logic you would need a work permit to have a toss.

 

You would also not be permitted to wash your car or bike, mow your own lawn etc etc, the list goes on for ever.

[YetAnother]

by inferring 'anything a thai can do' , which seems the intent of the law, then about the only things we can do are eat (prepared by a thai), personals in a bathroom and sleep

[scorecard]

7 minutes ago, Pungdo said:

I built 2 new kitchens on the back of our house last year, after a lot of searching around a couple of years back, I was under the impression that if it is "Your" home then it is ok, but if the neighbours said, "geez I like what you did, can you do the same for me", then the answer would be a definite NO, that would be working and as a prohibited occupation for foreigners, no work permit would ever be gained.

 

The way I see it "Work" can be defined as anything you can pay a Thai to do, so using that logic you would need a work permit to have a toss.

 

You would also not be permitted to wash your car or bike, mow your own lawn etc etc, the list goes on for ever.

 

"...The way I see it "Work" can be defined as anything you can pay a Thai to do, so using that logic you would need a work permit to have a toss...."

 

Another arm chair lawyer trying to reinvent the law to what he/she would like it to be?

[maoro2013]

12 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

He can't work as a builder doesn't have to get paid. 

I believe being paid is not a consideration.

[williamgeorgeallen]

how are you going to own a house in thailand? you cant own the land under it, is it portable?

[laochef]

22 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

how are you going to own a house in thailand? you cant own the land under it, is it portable?

Yes, you can legally own the house, but not the land.

[williamgeorgeallen]

10 minutes ago, laochef said:

Yes, you can legally own the house, but not the land.

question is why would anyone do that?

[Khun Robert]

I went a few years back to the Ministerie of Labour in Krabi to ask what is allowed.

They explained very easy. You can work on your land, rented or leased (before people start you can not own land)

you can work on your house, rebuild extend what ever you like.

You can built your own furniture, even a boat for private use.

 

You can do this without work permit, but if you also have some smaller bungalows for rent, you can not work on those bungalows.

If you build a boat, use it short time, sell it and build a new one, sell it after short time do it again they will see that as a business.

Furniture for own use no problem, if you start or your girlfriend/wife to sell to others it is a business.

Cutting grass  no problem, help your neighbour no problem, use the machine to help half of the village is a business.

Helping out girlfriend/wife with her business is working for her company.

 

To be short: Working on private things or helping a friend no work permits needed. Make your hobby commercial, work permit needed.

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Khun Robert

[wobalt]

question is why would anyone do that?

For many reasons, but not to be discussed here,
Question : why would anyone like to own a car in THL?

[Enoon]

 

Tiger Woods is employed as a golfer.

 

He, of course, obtains a temporary work permit when he "works" in Thailand, although he doesn't need to show it when playing on his own (for his own satisfaction) or with friends (for fun) on his days off.

 

Perhaps the fact that all those unpaid visiting or expat golfers in Thailand (playing for their own satisfaction/fun) are doing it "in their own time, for themselves" plays a part in them not getting deported for it?

 

Maybe even Thai people have a notion of "context"?

 

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Enoon

[williamgeorgeallen]

3 minutes ago, wobalt said:

For many reasons, but not to be discussed here,
Question : why would anyone like to own a car in THL?

bit off topic but i have owned cars before but i would not own one in thailand again. easier to get around on a scooter or ebike. can rent a car for a few days to do trips. infact i am now of the thinking i would rather rent a scooter as well as it is more flexible.

[scorecard]

27 minutes ago, Khun Robert said:

I went a few years back to the Ministerie of Labour in Krabi to ask what is allowed.

They explained very easy. You can work on your land, rented or leased (before people start you can not own land)

you can work on your house, rebuild extend what ever you like.

You can built your own furniture, even a boat for private use.

 

You can do this without work permit, but if you also have some smaller bungalows for rent, you can not work on those bungalows.

If you build a boat, use it short time, sell it and build a new one, sell it after short time do it again they will see that as a business.

Furniture for own use no problem, if you start or your girlfriend/wife to sell to others it is a business.

Cutting grass  no problem, help your neighbour no problem, use the machine to help half of the village is a business.

Helping out girlfriend/wife with her business is working for her company.

 

To be short: Working on private things or helping a friend no work permits needed. Make your hobby commercial, work permit needed.

 

 

 

Your 'advice' seems to totally clash with dozens of well established interpretations of the laws and reported here, by highly credible people including comments /explanations of the said law by senior ministerial officials.

 

How's that? 

[scorecard]

25 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

Tiger Woods is employed as a golfer.

 

He, of course, obtains a temporary work permit when he "works" in Thailand, although he doesn't need to show it when playing on his own (for his own satisfaction) or with friends (for fun) on his days off.

 

Perhaps the fact that all those amateur golfers who come to Thailand (playing for their own satisfaction/fun) are doing it "in their own time, for themselves" plays a part in them not getting deported for it?

 

Maybe even Thai people have a notion of "context"?

 

 

 

 

 

It's been mentioned before that golfers, international singers, bands, etc, who come here to perform need a work permit and they do get temporary WPs. 

[eddysmit]

3 hours ago, the guest said:

Any kind of work in Thailand requires a work permit, this is the law. If you work without the proper dokumentation the you are breaking the law, and take the risk of being arrested, incarcerated at a detention center, then deported, and blacklisted. 

 

You are correct 'the guest', I have been ridiculed in the past when mentioning how the 'authorities' have jumped on foreigners for doing menial work when they have decided to, people should before attempting to mock other people always remember a few rules with regards to doing menial work/jobs, basically no foreigner is allowed to do something a Thai could do no matter how small, each area of Thailand have their own way of 'turning a blind eye' for instance, if you somehow upset the local 'big wig' you would be surprised at the rules that can be pulled, it's the same with applying for a visa or something to do with a visa the rule books are there in black and white but in the small print is also written "each area office can interpret the rules as they see fit", that's how it works, yes, no doubt people have built their own pad and done all sorts of things with no problems, some say things like they have been driving for ten years with no legal documents I'm sure that works just fine for them but it does not make it okay for everyone.

[steven100]

16 hours ago, saakura said:

Can i brush my own teeth without a WP?

no you can't  .....    pls apply for a WP before attempting any manual labour. 

[scorecard]

12 minutes ago, eddysmit said:

You are correct 'the guest', I have been ridiculed in the past when mentioning how the 'authorities' have jumped on foreigners for doing menial work when they have decided to, people should before attempting to mock other people always remember a few rules with regards to doing menial work/jobs, basically no foreigner is allowed to do something a Thai could do no matter how small, each area of Thailand have their own way of 'turning a blind eye' for instance, if you somehow upset the local 'big wig' you would be surprised at the rules that can be pulled, it's the same with applying for a visa or something to do with a visa the rule books are there in black and white but in the small print is also written "each area office can interpret the rules as they see fit", that's how it works, yes, no doubt people have built their own pad and done all sorts of things with no problems, some say things like they have been driving for ten years with no legal documents I'm sure that works just fine for them but it does not make it okay for everyone.

 

 

 

I realize eddysmith didn't make this statement, just repeating it:

 

"... basically no foreigner is allowed to do something a Thai could do no matter how small..."

 

The Thai law on this subject doesn't say anything even remotely like that.

 

The actual law states a list of occupations which are reserved for Thai' citizens only.

 

The meaning of the specific word 'work', as it relates to the Thai laws on this subject, has a definition, all stated clearly in the appropriate laws. Go to the pinned threads at the start of the ThaiVisa site and you can easily find the actual law.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by scorecard

[12DrinkMore]

Yet another repeat of this old theme.

 

IME you can do pretty much anything you want and nobody will say anything.

 

The problems I have seen have ALWAYS come from another Farang with f-all else to do except make it an issue. They are exactly the same 4rse4ole wannabee policemen who rang up the authorities in Farangland because somebody had parked in the wrong spot, left rubbish out at the wrong time or made some other minor infringement.

 

They are members of the  "yack yack, gossip gossip, moan moan, whinge whinge" clubs that exist all over Thailand.

 

For some reason they are also 95% Brits.

 

Never see the Germans, Swiss, French, Scandies, Russians, Aussies looking to get involved.

Edited March 27, 2017 by 12DrinkMore

[pipeflaw]

Forget the "legal definitions".  When you are doing any work, chore, errand, or service that a Thai person could get paid to do then it is illegal.  I wouldn't even scratch my ass in public.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

valerian.

 Hi, When you say 'build your own house' do you mean from the footings up, the ground work, and the shell, and roof?

Or do you intend to have the above works carried out by a builder, and carry out the construction work internally your self?

If you intend to do all the externals and the topping off, i would think that you may be liable for the construction be inspected by a member of the housing safety board, and the work passed off as being constructed within the correct codes of practice, if there are such codes. This would involve a visit from a construction engineer from the recognised safety body. I don't know if such a body exists here.Of course because you will be working outside, you will be 'on show to all and sundry, that pass your way, and you may put some Thai builders nose out, because you are doing the work your self and he will be pissed off on two points.Because you are a ferang,doing it your self, you are doing him out of a job(overpriced as it would be) and also, the fact that you can actually do it, without him.He may grass you and insist that you are working without a work permit.Then your problems begin.

If you are only doing the internals, then go for it. If you are capable, fitting doors, windows, showers etc, do it your self, because Thais have no idea of good finishing. Their idea of hanging doors, is to screw the hinges to the doors and frames without using a chisel to cut in to both.Also, your wet room(s) will invariably have plastic frames and these will be simply screwed into the block, there will be no wooden surround to actually hold the screws, and will eventually fall out.External doors will never fit the frames and will warp when the rainy season starts, unless a good door is chosen and properly fitted to a seasoned,  hard wood frame.The plumbing will leave a lot to be desired, due to pipes strewn everywhere, and. left unclipped over long runs. The electrics are best left to someone who says they know, with you insuring that an earth is run around the house to pick up on light switches,sockets,showers, wall mounted fans.As this work is internal, the need for a work permit  is, if you can get away with it or not.If you find that you want to carry out the works yourself and dont apply for, or be advised by the powers that be, then that is up to you. If you do not wish to be left with poor finshings, kitchen units that do not fit, and altogether below par finished work, then, if you are capable, do the work your self.

Just remember, there are no apprenticeships over here, and there are no trades men.

Even the tiling, which at a distance looks quite good,upon inspection,  will be found lacking in the setting out department and will leave odd sized cuts in the room.

Bon Chance mon ami, you get what you pays for, work permit or not.

 

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

17 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

It won't be HIS home to start with.

Wrong it can be his house and his wifes land. As for building your own home vs being the builder that builds the home. There is a difference. If he builds his own home by supervising the building process there is nothing in the law preventing it. If he however physically builds the house, then yes he is contravening the law.

[Social Media]

15 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

Wrong it can be his house and his wifes land. As for building your own home vs being the builder that builds the home. There is a difference. If he builds his own home by supervising the building process there is nothing in the law preventing it. If he however physically builds the house, then yes he is contravening the law.

" supervising the building process " are you sure on that ?

 

Ministry of labor begs to differ :

29. Civil engineering works concerning design and calculation, organization, research, project planning, testing, construction supervision or advising, excluding work requiring special expertise;

30. Architectural work concerning designing, drawing of plans, cost estimating, construction directing or advising;

http://www.mol.go.th/en/content/page/6347

Edited March 27, 2017 by Black Ops

[55Jay]

It's illegal/contrary to the law.  So is prostitution.  Speeding. Not wearing a helmet.  Buying a beer at 3pm.

 

House we live in was mostly built while we lived abroad.  Me and the Mrs. spent a month long holiday here busting hump to finish the outside/grounds.  I worked right alongside her, 2 of her brothers, her Dad (RIP) and a handful of day-laborers who had to blink a few times at seeing a white boy/farang working like that.  Dug and shaped the hole for the fish pond myself.  Worked alongside them leveling dirt, laying sod, and the daunting task of turning huge piles of sand and many pallets of brick pavers into a driveway, by hand, one by one.....  Nobody concerned about labor laws. 

 

Hard work but it was good, and having pitched in our own blood and sweat, enjoyed a greater sense of satisfaction when it was done and dusted.  Good luck on your project, OP. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by 55Jay

[Khun Robert]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

 

Your 'advice' seems to totally clash with dozens of well established interpretations of the laws and reported here, by highly credible people including comments /explanations of the said law by senior ministerial officials.

 

How's that? 

I went to the only office who can inform me correctly about the issue in my living area.

Maybe I'm in a clash with dozens of interpretations of the law written by expats on a forum,

but I have more trust in an employee from Ministry of Labour than in those interpretations.

So far, all I do in and around my house, helping out friends never had any problem in the last 14 years.

 

And as some people try to explain on this forum: anything a Thai can do, you not allowed.

As i read many strange interpretations like brushing your teeth, I know many Thais who are very capable using

a computer. So lets also interpreet that typing comments on a forum is not allowed without work permit.

 

Use common sens and if you not sure, visit the Ministry of Labour in your area and just ask.

[NOWHERE]

This is good, I do think.

The thread that is.

Edited March 27, 2017 by NOWHERE
Explain comment clearly.

[cornishcarlos]

Oooops, I did it again....

 

 

[Foozool]

23 hours ago, CharlieH said:

There are entries on this forum now where people have been fined 50k for repairing there own roof !

A bar owner fined for repairing stools! (apparently).

Fixing anything at own business without work permit is absolutely prohibited. 

Own home is different. 

There is no need a work permit for renting own house or condo , even though the owner directly deal with the tenant. It won't count as a job. 

[LolaS]

actually you are allowed with student visa part time jobs for up to 9 h per week

[keep it real]

6 hours ago, Black Ops said:

" supervising the building process " are you sure on that ?

 

Ministry of labor begs to differ :

29. Civil engineering works concerning design and calculation, organization, research, project planning, testing, construction supervision or advising, excluding work requiring special expertise;

30. Architectural work concerning designing, drawing of plans, cost estimating, construction directing or advising;

http://www.mol.go.th/en/content/page/6347

the MoL list you quote lists only jobs that are prohibited:

"Prohibited Jobs for Foreigners in Thailand"

(However, until the new Ministerial regulation, there is a decree made in 1979 which prohibits Foreigners to work 39 occupations.  Some of these prohibited jobs were modified or deleted. But at the moment, Foreigners (Aliens) are not permitted to work in the following position).

 

and have nothing to do with work permits in Th. This prohibited job list is thus being misquoted.

 

 

[Grubster]

I made a drawing of our home and then took it to the Ampher to get it redrawn and by their structural engineer. He did a very detailed job of it for cheap 2000 baht and made several copies. I have Hired most of the work done, I did the Plumbing and underground electrical. I think if you are good to your workers you will have many friends around and have no worries.  There was no permit needed.  I recommend your wife find a good reputable local contractor to supervise all the work, he will work to but he knows who to get for welding, roofing, walls, cement slabs etc.  Don't ever tell them they did something wrong, just say " Ive changed my mind" and then show them how you want it done.   Keep them in coffee and water and they will love you. Well maybe a bottle of Lao Cow and a few beers once in a while.  Good luck on your home.  Hey by the way I'm sold on these new sun reflecting, insulated metal roofs. They look great, work great, and save a lot on the steel used for structure.