Do I need a lawyer to buy a condo?

[champers]

I have recently retired to Pattaya and am renting a condo. I am happy at the complex and they have about 100 condos for sale. I would like to buy one to live in permanently.

Would I need a lawyer; as one would in the UK, for example; and if so what would be the benefits and what might I expect to pay them?

Any advice would be much appreciated. Regards and thanks. Champers.

[Peterw42]

A straight forward sale between 2 parties using an agent or the condo managers, a lawyer isnt really needed as the agent will hold deposit and go to the land office etc, the agents helps both parties as its in their interest to have the sale completed. There are checks at the land office and the sale cant go ahead if the seller has a mortgage, unpaid condo fees etc.You literally dont hand over the money until the land office says you own the condo.

It sounds like you may be buying direct from a developer which has more things to consider, is the block finished with a chanote (title deeds) issued etc. Buying from a developer usually means a more complex contract that may need a lawyer for. People have brought from a developer and 6 months later are still waiting for the chanote.

[johng]

There is no need for a lawyer...just do your own due diligence,ask others in the condo how the good the management is, pay with a cashiers check at the land office make sure you buy in the 49% foreign quota check that at the land office before handing over the cheque and receiving chanote with your name on it.

 

 

[Peterw42]

There is a transfer tax of 3-5% payable at the land office, usually split 50/50 but sometimes payed by the buyer or seller, negotiated during the price negotiations. Also, if you are buying in the foreign quota, the money needs to come from outside Thailand and you will need a document from your bank (FET) to show the land office.

[champers]

Just to clarify: The condos are all completed and there is a site sales office manned by the developer's sales staff. They were my route to rent. I have seen units on the complex being advertised by owners and agents but if there are 100 units for sale at the site sales office I feel more comfortable going with them. I am new here and am aware I could come a cropper if I am not careful.

Thanks to all who have replied so far.

[johng]

Rent for a good while first to see the unforseen ,are there undeveloped land plots adjacent ? Anything could be built on them.

[trogers]

20 minutes ago, champers said:

Just to clarify: The condos are all completed and there is a site sales office manned by the developer's sales staff. They were my route to rent. I have seen units on the complex being advertised by owners and agents but if there are 100 units for sale at the site sales office I feel more comfortable going with them. I am new here and am aware I could come a cropper if I am not careful.

Thanks to all who have replied so far.

The developer still have unsold stock of a hundred units out of how many units? And there are individual owners trying to bail out of the project.

 

Sounds like this complex will face serious maintenance issues from the third year onwards...due to the high level of unsold stock and resulting non-payment of common fees by a large portion of the units.

[whoareyou]

No bought and sold 2 condos no lawyer.

That's one of the big pluses here and saves a huge slice of cash

[champers]

To update:

I have been here nearly 5 months. There are 3 blocks and I calculate over 2000 units based on number of habitable floors x rooms per floor. I am impressed by the maintenance on site. There is a tract of waste land next to my site and when the GF saw it she said "for condos". I have a sea view but it is nothing spectacular. 

[KittenKong]

11 hours ago, champers said:

The condos are all completed and there is a site sales office manned by the developer's sales staff. They were my route to rent. I have seen units on the complex being advertised by owners and agents but if there are 100 units for sale at the site sales office I feel more comfortable going with them. I am new here and am aware I could come a cropper if I am not careful.

 

7 hours ago, champers said:

There are 3 blocks and I calculate over 2000 units based on number of habitable floors x rooms per floor. I am impressed by the maintenance on site. There is a tract of waste land next to my site and when the GF saw it she said "for condos". I have a sea view but it is nothing spectacular. 

 

There is massive oversupply in the sort of developments you mention. Whichever unit you look at, negotiate very hard indeed. Quoted prices could easily be 30% more than what the units are really worth, often because many vendors are not serious about selling and are just testing the water, and also because agents often add huge markups. Keep your eyes open for motivated vendors and do not be afraid to make low offers. The most motivated vendors will probably be advertising their own properties rather than relying on agents.

 

Do not assume that the front office is more or less honest than any other agent or vendor. In my experience all of them are only interested in what they can get out of you and will not hesitate to lie and steal from you if they can.
 

The most common scams are paying cash commissions and buying a unit that is not the one you think you are buying. Check the unit number on the chanote carefully and compare the outline drawing with what you know to be true. Check that you are getting the fixtures, fittings and furniture that you think you are getting. Bear in mind that the division of taxes/fees is 100% negotiable and that in law the vendor is considered responsible for most of it.

 

Personally I would not touch company name units with someone else's bargepole but the purchase of a farang name unit is simple.

 

Your girlfriend is right about the condos in the plot next door.

 

Check the finances of the building. Unfortunately these can be deliberately opaque if not actually misleading. Check the minutes of AGMs and committee meetings. Bear in mind that these also do not always represent the whole truth or even part of the truth. Applying spin is a widespread pastime in Thailand.
I suspect that many new buildings here will have some big bills for maintenance of fancy pools and features in a few years. But if your building has 2000 units then the cost to you should be minimal.

 

Bear in mind that if you buy and want to sell you will just be one of those hundred other vendors you are looking at. Buying is easy in Thailand: selling can take years.

[scubascuba3]

Is this Lumpini ville?

I would be slightly nervous buying without a lawyer especially when you hear stories of people buying condos and still haven't got the Chanote and may not get it (Centara) . I'd probably do a mini checklist based on the forums I've read and other info I've picked up.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

I would be slightly nervous buying without a lawyer especially when you hear stories of people buying condos and still haven't got the Chanote and may not get it (Centara) .

 

If you are buying a finished resale unit as opposed to an off-plan one then should be no problem about getting the chanote as the sale cannot proceed without one. Of course if anyone is daft enough to pay money over for a resale unit before the transfer is registered at the Land Office, that's another matter, and no one can help them there.

 

In unfinished buildings some people ("flippers") may be trying to sell on their partly-paid contracts, especially as the building nears completion, and these one should be very wary of as there will be no chanote at that time.

 

[champers]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Is this Lumpini ville?
 

Yes it is. Naklua Wongamat.

[vukovar77]

16 hours ago, champers said:

I have recently retired to Pattaya and am renting a condo. I am happy at the complex and they have about 100 condos for sale. I would like to buy one to live in permanently.

Would I need a lawyer; as one would in the UK, for example; and if so what would be the benefits and what might I expect to pay them?

Any advice would be much appreciated. Regards and thanks. Champers.

Do not buy new condo in Thailand is the best advice!Just rent it!

Special not in Pattaya,cos. prices will dip very much very soon!

Construction is very poor ,prices too high and many uncertainty about liens and chanote!

Numerous condos are now for a sale in Pattaya and near by!

[brewsterbudgen]

There is no need for a lawyer, but if like me you're lazy and rather cautious, and you know a law firm you trust, I would use one to check all the paperwork etc etc.  I used one when I bought my condo and it was re-assuring to have someone to guide me through the process, especially as I work full-time.  Their total fee was very cheap by western lawyer standards!

[scubascuba3]

 
If you are buying a finished resale unit as opposed to an off-plan one then should be no problem about getting the chanote as the sale cannot proceed without one. Of course if anyone is daft enough to pay money over for a resale unit before the transfer is registered at the Land Office, that's another matter, and no one can help them there.

People are selling currently at Centara for example without the chanote. Some guys without the knowledge and without proper guidance are going ahead. You'd hope that a lawyer would advise you not to go ahead.

[scubascuba3]

Yes it is. Naklua Wongamat.

I had a quick look at this, very close to baht bus route, rent seems cheap 7500+, studios seem tiny, i assume one beds will be relatively small also. But the right size and right price I'd probably buy there too.

 

I've just checked, 1 bed 23 metres, i didn't think that was possible

[trogers]

20 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I had a quick look at this, very close to baht bus route, rent seems cheap 7500+, studios seem tiny, i assume one beds will be relatively small also. But the right size and right price I'd probably buy there too.

 

I've just checked, 1 bed 23 metres, i didn't think that was possible

Possible. Just be careful when opening the entrance door, that it would not scrap against the side of the 2-seater sofa or the door knob hitting the wall hung TV.

[Destiny1990]

U say ur unit does not have great sea views why not select one that does?U can bring a lawyer it will cost u about 25,000 might be worth it might not depends how organised the seller is.

[12DrinkMore]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

I've just checked, 1 bed 23 metres, i didn't think that was possible

 

They are sold as "convenience" condos.

 

Everything at arm's length.

[champers]

3 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

They are sold as "convenience" condos.

Everything at arm's length.

Yes, it is cosy but that suits me and the girlfriend fine. Storage space is more roomy than you might imagine. We only really spend the nights in the condo; we are both out in the day. The big plus for me is how quiet it is even with neighbours. I have the radio on next to the balcony and when I go on the balcony for a crafty ciggie and close the door I can't hear it. Anyway, I am veering off my own topic. I am not too fussed about a seaview. I can go see the sea every day.

[nickmondo]

18 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

A straight forward sale between 2 parties using an agent or the condo managers, a lawyer isnt really needed as the agent will hold deposit and go to the land office etc, the agents helps both parties as its in their interest to have the sale completed. There are checks at the land office and the sale cant go ahead if the seller has a mortgage, unpaid condo fees etc.You literally dont hand over the money until the land office says you own the condo.

It sounds like you may be buying direct from a developer which has more things to consider, is the block finished with a chanote (title deeds) issued etc. Buying from a developer usually means a more complex contract that may need a lawyer for. People have brought from a developer and 6 months later are still waiting for the chanote.

Peterw42 you have given enough reasons for this purchaser to get a lawyer.  personally, I think you would have to be an absolute plonker to buy any property in any country without a lawyer that acts for you, the purchaser, only

[nickmondo]

get a lawyer mate.  Seriously, get a lawyer. I have years of experience of selling overseas property, and if you do not get a lawyer to represent you, it might be a very costly mistake.  lawyers are not expensive.

[Destiny1990]

6 minutes ago, champers said:

Yes, it is cosy but that suits me and the girlfriend fine. Storage space is more roomy than you might imagine. We only really spend the nights in the condo; we are both out in the day. The big plus for me is how quiet it is even with neighbours. I have the radio on next to the balcony and when I go on the balcony for a crafty ciggie and close the door I can't hear it. Anyway, I am veering off my own topic. I am not too fussed about a seaview. I can go see the sea every day.

Would avoid tower c...

[trogers]

10 minutes ago, champers said:

Yes, it is cosy but that suits me and the girlfriend fine. Storage space is more roomy than you might imagine. We only really spend the nights in the condo; we are both out in the day. The big plus for me is how quiet it is even with neighbours. I have the radio on next to the balcony and when I go on the balcony for a crafty ciggie and close the door I can't hear it. Anyway, I am veering off my own topic. I am not too fussed about a seaview. I can go see the sea every day.

Definitely a grade above the Nirun class of condo...but will have to see how the community and environment would develop after the developer pulls out in managing the project from year 3.

[scubascuba3]

Would avoid tower c...

Why?

[scubascuba3]

get a lawyer mate.  Seriously, get a lawyer. I have years of experience of selling overseas property, and if you do not get a lawyer to represent you, it might be a very costly mistake.  lawyers are not expensive.

What liability does the lawyer have if they give bad advice or miss something they should have advised you about?

[Destiny1990]

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Why?

Lives a farang nutter huge guy speaks to him self in the elevator and verbally swears and shouts to anyone.Condo management thinks its no problem.

[champers]

8 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Lives a farang nutter huge guy speaks to him self in the elevator and verbally swears and shouts to anyone.Condo management thinks its no problem.

It's not me. Honest.☺

[deepinlaos]

I would rent in pattaya, you never know when conflict will arise and you need to flee the scene.

 

even with a girlfriend that appears calm, try breaking up with her.

 

you need to stay light & agile