Pool underwater lights wiring

[carlyai]

I have 4 Emaux LED-TP100 underwater pool lamps to install.

I have a couple of questions on the best way to wire these LED' s in.

 

Q1. I can wire them in series or parallel. From most Google searches I have done, it seems the lights are connected in series, but then if one fails, all the lights are out.

If I connect them in series I would have 32 W and about 2.7 A, so would use a TRA-105VA transformer.

Q2. If I connect them in parallel, then one lamp failing will not effect the others, but I would have more conduit runs and a different spec. transformer.

Q3. From what I have Googled, the transformer connection will step down 220V to 12V A.C.. But I haven't seen any circuits that include regulated 12 V output or short or open circuit protection.

 

I would like to connect the lights in parallel, and also like the 12 V to have protection.

 

What am I missing?

 

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[Crossy]

You would connect the lights in parallel. A series connection would need a 48V power supply.

 

4 x 8W = 32W = 2.6A @ 12V

 

The 50VA transformer will do the job just fine.

 

These transformers invariably have built-in protection so just run your wires and hook up.

 

EDIT UK requirements for pool lighting https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/7.3.2.htm

 

[carlyai]

Great thanks and Happy New Year.

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[carlyai]

'EDIT UK requirements for pool lighting https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/7.3.2.htm'

Just reading the regs., it says you need a separate transformer for each light in zone A (underwater), or a transformer with separate secondary windings, in my case 4.
If I have 4 junction boxes (the type for level IPX2, not looked that up yet), then I would run a large conduit from the pump house (with the 8 wires to level IPX2), then continue to next junction box, etc with smaller diameter conduit, or run 4 separate conduits from the pump room?


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[grollies]

1 3x2.5mm2 240v NYY cable supply from pump toom to transformer housing (IP64).

 

Earth the transformer housing - I ran my pool rebar and ladder earths back to the transformer housing.

 

Split the supply into 4 separate supplies using 30A block connector to each transformer.

 

Use 2.5mm2 cable (to avoid voltage drop) in conduits from each transformer to pool light deck boxes. Use standard block connectors to join 12V supply for each light inside deck boxes.....

 

Unless Crossy says otherwise, then ignore the above.

[carlyai]

Thanks Grollies. Did you use #8 copper wire from the rebar and pool ladder back to the transformer?

Did you use a copper screw connector to join the rebar and Cu wire?

Got me worried now, if we ever get an O/C neutral from the main PEA transformer.

 

On some other Googles, they say you have to run the Cu wire around the pool rebar, and connect it to 3 points of the rebar.

 

 

 

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[carlyai]

For the equal potential earth system, can I use these clamps to attach the earth to
the pool rebar? If not, how to attach the earth wire to the rebar?


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[carlyai]

For the pool equal potential system, they say to use 'bare' Cu wire. Why can't I use insulated Cu wire and bare it at the connection points? I have 10mm2 wire left over from the house build, which is insulated, so I would like to use that.

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[Hutch68]

How's the pool coming along carlyai? Must be getting close to finishing if your wiring up, is it near time for me to dig out my speedos? Wouldn't mind having a look at your gen set up for the power cuts I need something like that to keep my pumps running.


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[grollies]

3 hours ago, carlyai said:

Thanks Grollies. Did you use #8 copper wire from the rebar and pool ladder back to the transformer?

cant remember but was heavy wire.

Quote

Did you use a copper screw connector to join the rebar and Cu wire?

Yes

 

Quote

Got me worried now, if we ever get an O/C neutral from the main PEA transformer.

 

On some other Googles, they say you have to run the Cu wire around the pool rebar, and connect it to 3 points of the rebar.

 

 

 

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Dont know for rest of it, getting wet and drunk at Wat!! (sitting by the electrics to dry-off now)

 

 

[Crossy]

No need for a separate transformer per light, the original idea of one Tx is just fine.

 

I would NOT connect the pool re-bar etc. to the mains earth unless it's actually integral to the house and all the bar is connected together anyway (open neutral hazard).

 

That said, all that re-bar is a pretty good Ufer ground, maybe I'm just paranoid

 

 

 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

No need for a separate transformer per light, the original idea of one Tx is just fine.

i never got an explanation for the separate transformers but 5 homes in 3 different countries (Germany, U.S. and Thailand) have this installation.

 

to be fair... i never cared or asked for an explanation. just thought the Sparky will know.

[carlyai]

How's the pool coming along carlyai? Must be getting close to finishing if your wiring up, is it near time for me to dig out my speedos? Wouldn't mind having a look at your gen set up for the power cuts I need something like that to keep my pumps running.


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@Hutch68
Hi Hutch.
Pool just started again as new building team hired. Half the staff and twice the work.
Re - genset
You're welcome anytime (got the table all set up, need someone to flog now 555 ).
If you search T.V., there is a good diagram of genset setup, plus the TV, electrical forum has all you answers. Mine is still in the manual more, but I bought a good change-over switch from China, so can go auto. Think you'de need auto mode to keep the fish happy and wife unexcited.


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[carlyai]

i never got an explanation for the separate transformers but 5 homes in 3 different countries (Germany, U.S. and Thailand) have this installation.
 
to be fair... i never cared or asked for an explanation. just thought the Sparky will know.

The electrical manual does say separate transformers and equal potential earthing strap, but I believe X'y.
Maybe the transformer thingy is a hangover from the past. Years ago one of my control systems computer's power supply went faulty. When I analysed the waveforms, they were abnormal but the power supply still worked, but the output was not correct. After hours of fault finding, I finally changed the transformer and fixed the problem. Must have developed some short circuit windings, but the protection circuits did not shut it down. So maybe if you have separate transformers for each light, you only take out one light if the transformer fails?

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[Naam]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

So maybe if you have separate transformers for each light, you only take out one light if the transformer fails?

yeah, it's very scary swimming in the dark 

[carlyai]

Probably miss translation, but in the light installation pamphlet there are references to 'feed paraffin'.
Google seems to think it is animal feed.
Any idea what this may mean?

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[grollies]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Probably miss translation, but in the light installation pamphlet there are references to 'feed paraffin'.
Google seems to think it is animal feed.
Any idea what this may mean?

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Yeah, it's for the old light types, you had to top-up the parrafin every night to make sure the lights didn't go out.

 

Seriously, ignore it, chinese translation. It's where the transformer wires terminate and you connect to the LED light wiring in the deck box. I'll send you some piccys later.

[sappersrest]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Probably miss translation, but in the light installation pamphlet there are references to 'feed paraffin'.
Google seems to think it is animal feed.
Any idea what this may mean?

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Something for you to check out sorry Ido not know the answer.

As you say the instructions show one transformer to one light.

Could it be that each transformer has its own led driver??

If you use the control unit that is how they should be wired especially if you are using RGB lamps.

As far as I can remember  all the projects I have been involved in has been one transformer per light.

[sappersrest]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Probably miss translation, but in the light installation pamphlet there are references to 'feed paraffin'.
Google seems to think it is animal feed.
Any idea what this may mean?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

Something for you to check out sorry Ido not know the answer.

As you say the instructions show one transformer to one light.

Could it be that each transformer has its own led driver??

If you use the control unit that is how they should be wired especially if you are using RGB lamps.

As far as I can remember  all the projects I have been involved in has been one transformer per light.

 

[carlyai]

Something for you to check out sorry Ido not know the answer.
As you say the instructions show one transformer to one light.
Could it be that each transformer has its own led driver??
If you use the control unit that is how they should be wired especially if you are using RGB lamps.
As far as I can remember  all the projects I have been involved in has been one transformer per light.
 

I think I'm pretty happy to use one transformer for the LED lamps. I have Googled a bit more, and seems some sites do use just one transformer. It was the paraffin that has me tricked, but@Grollies explained it nicely. [emoji2]

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[grollies]

22 minutes ago, carlyai said:

I think I'm pretty happy to use one transformer for the LED lamps. I have Googled a bit more, and seems some sites do use just one transformer. It was the paraffin that has me tricked, but@Grollies explained it nicely.

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You get my emails on tiles and lights mate?

[Hutch68]

How's the pool coming along carlyai? Must be getting close to finishing if your wiring up, is it near time for me to dig out my speedos? Wouldn't mind having a look at your gen set up for the power cuts I need something like that to keep my pumps running.


Sent from my iPhone using [mention=263636]Hutch68[/mention]
Hi Hutch.
Pool just started again as new building team hired. Half the staff and twice the work.
Re - genset
You're welcome anytime (got the table all set up, need someone to flog now 555 ).
If you search T.V., there is a good diagram of genset setup, plus the TV, electrical forum has all you answers. Mine is still in the manual more, but I bought a good change-over switch from China, so can go auto. Think you'de need auto mode to keep the fish happy and wife unexcited.


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Your on, I'll bring the booze, what's your favorite tipple?
Been looking through the forum about the genny but wouldn't mind looking at yours before I start on that one, should keep the fish happy but I doubt it'll keep that little minx unexited!


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[Jdietz]

Here is an alternative way to hook up power to the pool:

 

http://www.linuxno.de/_data/gallery/nwl7/_medium_DSCN7823.JPG

 

_{Disclaimer: Only valid if signed off by a certified inspector.}

Edited April 16, 2017 by Jdietz

[carlyai]

Done some more researching (this one a head hurter)...seems the transformer has to be special, in that it has a grounded shield between secondary and primary windings, so you can't (never say can't), get a short circuit from primary to secondary.
Also, there is a wiring regulation that says you can't share pool light wiring in a raceway with other power cables, hence probably 4 separate feeds.
So I better buy 4 special pool transformers (grounding shield between primary and secondary) and have 4 runs.
Thanks all, and I finally got there: beer anyone?


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[Crossy]

It's called SELV (Separated Extra Low Voltage), one would assume that big name (Emaux) kit specifically designed for pool lighting would meet this requirement.

 

A modern "transformer" is unlikely to be an actual transformer, more likely a switch-mode power supply, these can of course also meet the requirements of SELV.

[carlyai]

I enquired about pool transformers, SELV compliance from a pool mob here in Thailand, and they said their pool transformers were no SELV compliment as SELV is not recognised in Thailand. So I've got to wonder if pool transformers sold in Thailand are 100% safe?

Maybe they have another name for SELV compliance in Thailand?

 

My pool lights require 12 V A.C. and must have a AC/DC converter in the LED unit, so I just need the transformer (not a power supply with DC output protection). If I'm going to have a transformer only, I should have a SELV one.

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[grollies]

47 minutes ago, carlyai said:

I enquired about pool transformers, SELV compliance from a pool mob here in Thailand, and they said their pool transformers were no SELV compliment as SELV is not recognised in Thailand. So I've got to wonder if pool transformers sold in Thailand are 100% safe?

Maybe they have another name for SELV compliance in Thailand?

 

My pool lights require 12 V A.C. and must have a AC/DC converter in the LED unit, so I just need the transformer (not a power supply with DC output protection). If I'm going to have a transformer only, I should have a SELV one.

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Have you checked these out from Emaux?

 

http://www.emauxgroup.com/vmchk/lighting/view-all-products

[carlyai]

Yeah, did check the Aus Emaux, but their online products site didn't specify SELV complaint. Had CE and other, but not stated SELV.

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[Crossy]

1 minute ago, carlyai said:

Yeah, did check the Aus Emaux, but their online products site didn't specify SELV complaint. Had CE and other, but not stated SELV.

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It may not absolutely state SELV, but rest assured, if it's on the market in Oz it certainly is :)

[carlyai]

Yes I was thinking that also. Communicated with another Aus mob today and they sell pool transformers with 4 x 50VA secondaries, so that's the way I may go.

It's difficult trying to interpret all these various ratings, some transformers have no mains plugs and rated differently that those with mains plugs etc.

It's like trying to understand food labelling or fruit wine content. 555

 

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