North Korea says it is ready to strike U.S. aircraft carrier

[Jonmarleesco]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

 

The commentary was carried on page three of the newspaper, after a two-page feature about leader Kim Jong Un inspecting a pig farm.

Now that's more like it. Home from home.

[Jonmarleesco]

47 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

The stage is set, we have two actors on stage. They are both Sabre rattling, puffing out their chests and threatening each other with battle.

When i put this to music, it is very much like Tchaikovsky's, music to Shakespeare's Romeo And Juliette. Where the Montague's(Romeo's  family) and the Capulet's (juliette's family) Take centre stage and stride up and down the boards in silent, threatening hatred of each other.

I suppose you would have to have seen it to appreciate the scene.

I have seen it. But I can't, for the life of me, pinpoint one outrageous hairstyle, never mind two.

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

How you can say, with any authority, that the US has NO ONE spying on North Korea or ISIS is beyond me.   How would the man in the street have any idea what the intelligence services of ANY country are doing.   Your assertion lacks credibility.

You can be sure of one thing, and that is that the US is not going to lose this stoush, and not a lot of HUMINT is required to see that.

                       You're right to an extent. I don't have any authority.  I do, however, 'have my ear to the ground' so to speak.  I've heard people with authority say how excrutiatingly difficult it is to get HUMINT on N.Korea or ISIS.  Same for a lot of other places.  Right before Syria imploded, US intelligence didn't appear to know diddly-squat.  If you had asked someone high up in the State Dept, they would have probably said something like, "Anwar is loved by the same people who loved his father. Syria is stable, don't worry about them.  If you want to worry, worry about what may happen between Syria and Israel."  In other words, State was out to lunch, as they were with Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, N.Korea, Pakistan, and a bunch of other places.   As bad as US intelligence is on places like that, it's headed for worse.  

 

                        The commander in Chief and all his top people in Wash. D.C. didn't know where a major carrier group was - that was just last week.   Tillerson was appointed to head State, but he doesn't have any deputies, and many top positions at the State Dept are un-manned as we speak.  Career diplomats and all their accummulated knowledge/insight have left the building.  

 

                    Tillerson hates to give press briefings or answer questions from journalists.  Top people in the executive branch are fast taking on 'bunker mentality' - partly because everything they say is shown to be either wrong or deceptive.    In Nixon's final year in the WH it was similar:  none of his people wanted to talk to the press, and Nixon himself hung out in a dark room drinking bourbon.

 

                 US diplomats overseas used to get the lion's share of their info from weekly State Dept briefings.  Now there aren't weekly briefings, and US diplomats everywhere are spooked about sending any messages online - partly because of all the raucus about HRC's emails, and also because of Wikileaks.   In other words, every diplomat and secret service person, and every leader of every country ww knows if they communicate with top US diplomats, they're taking a chance of that data being purloined and spread ww, like dried puke from last night's wild party.

 

                   Do people like me know more about int'l affairs than salaried State Dept people?   Do we know more than Bannon and Trump and Kushner?   Maybe yes or maybe no.   Hint:  I knew Russia had gone into Ukraine, at a time when Trump didn't know.   

 

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

45 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Integration is inevitable at some point. They know that.

Because of the economic disparity, there will have to be a transition period with two administrations/systems for a while, and even border controls.

 

Economically though, it'll be no problem for the South - in fact it will be a bonanza - big new pool of cheap labour, and a whole new market to sell to. They will have a fine time sorting it out. In any case, better than all the tension and living next door to a lunatic.

It was a burden for Germany but it won't be for Korea?  Really?

[boomerangutang]

If/when integration comes for N & S Koreas, it will be troublesome for S.Korea.  Economics aside, it will be a massive psychological issue.   Pretty much everyone in N.Korea has been so thoroughly brainwashed that even when the physical barriers come down, there will be mental barriers for generations.  Putting up soup kitchens and cheap housing is relatively easy.  Healing psychic wounds is tougher.

[F4UCorsair]

43 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

                       You're right to an extent. I don't have any authority.  I do, however, 'have my ear to the ground' so to speak.  I've heard people with authority say how excrutiatingly difficult it is to get HUMINT on N.Korea or ISIS.  Same for a lot of other places.  Right before Syria imploded, US intelligence didn't appear to know diddly-squat.  If you had asked someone high up in the State Dept, they would have probably said something like, "Anwar is loved by the same people who loved his father. Syria is stable, don't worry about them.  If you want to worry, worry about what may happen between Syria and Israel."  In other words, State was out to lunch, as they were with Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, N.Korea, Pakistan, and a bunch of other places.   As bad as US intelligence is on places like that, it's headed for worse.  

 

                        The commander in Chief and all his top people in Wash. D.C. didn't know where a major carrier group was - that was just last week.   Tillerson was appointed to head State, but he doesn't have any deputies, and many top positions at the State Dept are un-manned as we speak.  Career diplomats and all their accummulated knowledge/insight have left the building.  

 

                    Tillerson hates to give press briefings or answer questions from journalists.  Top people in the executive branch are fast taking on 'bunker mentality' - partly because everything they say is shown to be either wrong or deceptive.    In Nixon's final year in the WH it was similar:  none of his people wanted to talk to the press, and Nixon himself hung out in a dark room drinking bourbon.

 

                 US diplomats overseas used to get the lion's share of their info from weekly State Dept briefings.  Now there aren't weekly briefings, and US diplomats everywhere are spooked about sending any messages online - partly because of all the raucus about HRC's emails, and also because of Wikileaks.   In other words, every diplomat and secret service person, and every leader of every country ww knows if they communicate with top US diplomats, they're taking a chance of that data being purloined and spread ww, like dried puke from last night's wild party.

 

                   Do people like me know more about int'l affairs than salaried State Dept people?   Do we know more than Bannon and Trump and Kushner?   Maybe yes or maybe no.   Hint:  I knew Russia had gone into Ukraine, at a time when Trump didn't know.   

 

 

 

 

Ears to the ground count for nothing, and if you know anything before the toilet cleaner in the white house I'd be surprised, the same as it is for me.  If ISIS and NK (along with a host of other countries) aren't, and haven't been, under the highest level of surveillance by the US, electronic, covert, etc., for years, I'll drop my shorts in Times Square at peak hour.  I'm safe.....I, and you, have no way of knowing.

 

I don't have the same problem with the US that you do, and I'm not a US hater.   I don't suggest they do everything right, but you say they do everything wrong, and that just indicates a total lack of credibility.

 

The answer to the question you pose in your last para is definitely "NO".   That goes without saying, and it's foolish to contend otherwise.

 

I'll say what I said earlier, and that is that Kim Jong Idiot is looking to have himself killed, along with thousands of his military, and unfortunately, probably civilians.  The North Koreans deserve better than the lunatics who have ruled them since the end of WW2, and the way KJU is going, they are about to get it in the form of China setting up some sort of 'administration', but how much better remains to be seen. The Chinese aren't exactly 'free' people, moving that way, but it's a long road.

 

Incidentally, I agree completely with your post immediately above; integration will be a massive undertaking.  The North Koreans will be in shock, and part of that will be seeing a way of life they never knew existed, a way of life so foreign to them they may as well have been living in space, a life where they aren't hungry and cold most of the time, and actually  have freedoms.

 

The name  of North Korea, The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is an oxymoron is ever there was one.   Democratic???  Those poor people living under a regime such as KJU's would feel they were better dead.

 

As an aside, I love South Korea, and spent quite a bit of time working there some years back, very western, nice people, and GREAT food.

Edited April 24, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[dunroaming]

I still think it is all bluster from the two egomaniacs and neither side will do anything.

[F4UCorsair]

Just now, dunroaming said:

I still think it is all bluster from the two egomaniacs and neither side will do anything.

 

The US won't do anything unless the idiot in NK moves first.  I don't think the idiot has the balls, because if he made a move, a large part of NK would cease to exist, and that would be a tragedy for the innocent civilians caught up under the rule of a complete moron.

[transam]

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

I still think it is all bluster from the two egomaniacs and neither side will do anything.

Perhaps, but am sure another USA Vietnam will not happen......I think we all know the NK ruler is a nut job, if he gets nuclear stuff a nut job is really a nut job and anything can happen.....China now does understand the realities of a nut job who is pushing the boundaries......

[F4UCorsair]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Perhaps, but am sure another USA Vietnam will not happen......I think we all know the NK ruler is a nut job, if he gets nuclear stuff a nut job is really a nut job and anything can happen.....China now does understand the realities of a nut job who is pushing the boundaries......

Agreed, no foot soldiers in this one, but the second he makes a move, the gloves will be off, and it's something the little turd can't win.

 

I think the problem we have with China, is along with being part, or even most, of the solution to reigning in KJU, they will then be able to tell the west that they intend continuing their expansion in the South China Sea, man made islands, military presence, airfields, mineral exploration, etc., and they expect that since they 'solved' the problem, that they'll be left to do so without intervention, or even complaint.

 

Just one <deleted> problem after another for the west.

[dunroaming]

16 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

Agreed, no foot soldiers in this one, but the second he makes a move, the gloves will be off, and it's something the little turd can't win.

Agreed and he knows that.  He may be nuts but that doesn't mean he is stupid.  There is no doubt that Kim doesn't give a toss about the people and neither does Trump.  However like the majority of people in the region Kim will not do anything to lose face and he knows a strike against the USA is un-winnable.  On the other hand Trump is nuts and stupid but hopefully not stupid enough to attack NK. 

[just.a.thought]

The air must be thin where the little fat boy is living.........

[dick dasterdly]

56 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

If/when integration comes for N & S Koreas, it will be troublesome for S.Korea.  Economics aside, it will be a massive psychological issue.   Pretty much everyone in N.Korea has been so thoroughly brainwashed that even when the physical barriers come down, there will be mental barriers for generations.  Putting up soup kitchens and cheap housing is relatively easy.  Healing psychic wounds is tougher.

We've all been "brainwashed" to a certain extent - i.e. we support philosophies within the framework with which we grew up.  (Apologies for the appalling grammar!)

 

Integration won't happen IMO until the populace of N. Korea agrees that joining S. Korea is a better option.

[dick dasterdly]

47 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I still think it is all bluster from the two egomaniacs and neither side will do anything.

I hope you're right, but as you say - there are two egomaniacs in power....

 

Edit - Let's not forget that he much revered JFK came within spitting distance of starting a nuclear war with Cuba....

Edited April 24, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Leicamera]

8 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

                                   One low-tech way N.Korea could respond to an attack by the US:  Chemical and/or bio attacks.  It can be done low-tech, and relatively cheap.  The west coast US is a rather large piece of real estate, with several large population areas.  Prevailing winds blow east from the Pacific.  In the same vein, one or more containers on ships could have nefarious cargo.   Sorry to say, but the US is vulnerable.  Multi-billion dollar US security forces + and the most mighty military in the world couldn't keep 19 guys from entering commercial passenger planes armed only with 50 cent box cutters, less than 20 yrs ago.  

 

                  And then there are hundreds of thousands of Americans traveling/residing in Asia at any given moment.  To say they're vulnerable to harm, is an understatement.

What's your point?

[boomerangutang]

           Think about this for a moment:  When Trump became prez-elect, he had access to all security data available to Obama.  He was briefed by all the security agencies.  Whether he understood or even stayed awake for the briefings, is anyone's guess.  He has a reputation for not reading books and having an attention span of a canary.  However, my point is:  he also had access to everything the FBI and other agencies were garnering about him, his people with possible/probably law-breaking.  

 

                    He can't make the data disappear (though he would love to, and there's another story of how he has been trying to delete all climate change data/research at the EPA).  Yet, by knowing everything the FBI and others have on him and his people, gives him great advantage in skewing/slowing any investigations.  He also has firing powers.  He could fire Comey with a phone call.  In sum, it's going to be very difficult to bust Trump for his law-breaking, because he controls so many puppet strings as prez.

 

                     The point I want to make which relates more directly to this thread is this:  Trump (and Bannon and Kushner) can get all sorts of 'intelligence' data, BUT IT'S WHAT THEY DO WITH IT, THAT'S IMPORTANT.  The reason I was comparing myself to the men running the Oval Office is:  I'll be the first to admit that I'm not privy to as much secret data as they are,  BUT HOW A PERSON IN POWER, ACTS OR REACTS to the data, is of the utmost importance.  

 

                  I'll try to curb my verbosity, and close with this:  I have zero faith in Trump or his top people, when it comes to interpreting sensitive data, and acting on it wisely.  ZERO. ZILCH. NADA.  And I speak for a majority of Americans.  There are a slew of proofs showing Trump screwing up and doing/saying the wrong things.  From not shaking hands with Merkel, to not knowing where the Carl Vinson was, to appointing an anti-EPA person to head EPA, to keeping Flynn in top security position for weeks after knowing he was a paid agent for a foreign country,   .......the list is very very long.  Sad times for the USA.

[boomerangutang]

6 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

Ears to the ground count for nothing,

If you've ever been close to combat, you'll know that 'ears to the ground' accounts for a lot.

[boomerangutang]

5 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

The US won't do anything unless the idiot in NK moves first.  I don't think the idiot has the balls, because if he made a move, a large part of NK would cease to exist, and that would be a tragedy for the innocent civilians caught up under the rule of a complete moron.

                            How can you be sure Trump will do nothing unless NK moves first?    He dropped bombs on Syria, when Syrians weren't attacking any US interests.  A few days later, he dropped a MOAB in Afghanistan - which was a pre-emptive strike.   Trump can justify anything at all.  He can justify seducing married women during a time he himself was newlywed.  He can justify not knowing where a major carrier group was.  He can justify accusing Obama of illegally and personally tapping his phones.  Trump could pre-emptively send bombs to N.Korea as easy as pie - and justify it with a wave of his hand, a mumble and a grin.   

[IAMHERE]

I hope the US leaves N. Korea alone; you just know that the US will spend trillions on rebuilding N.Korea after an altercation while the roads, bridges, and inner cities of the US rot.

Let Japan and South Korea do the dirty work; they get the benefits.

[Basil B]

19 hours ago, Thechook said:

Kimmie so wants to slap the U.S, 

He will miss and get floored with a drop kick...

 

It is what the Americans want, any attempt to attack any American ship and the Yanks will let fly with hundreds of Cruse missiles aimed at every military, atomic, missile, and power production establishment in North Korea.

[baboon]

33 minutes ago, Basil B said:

He will miss and get floored with a drop kick...

 

It is what the Americans want, any attempt to attack any American ship and the Yanks will let fly with hundreds of Cruse missiles aimed at every military, atomic, missile, and power production establishment in North Korea.

Just look at the wonders worked elsewhere. Threats, coercion and boots on the ground really do work. If you are the Taliban or ISIS, that is. Oh, and let's look at Vietnam and Cuba...

[Stargeezr]

North Korea is a very poor country where a lot of its population are on the brink of starving, except of course unless you are part of the military or government, then you are just poor and brain washed daily with the garbage from fat boy or his minions.  I feel sorry for the population of NK, but like all countries of the world, they have the government that they deserve, if they do not want to ever change their own government.  Take out fat boy and some generals, then the country can at least start to change

Geezer

[mvdf]

This entire drama is fraught with danger and South Korea is most prone to that danger with Seoul just a stone's throw from the DMZ.

 

Baffles me why the United States doesn't get it. All this meddling and interfering and provoking is not welcome in Asia and other parts of this planet. They keep sticking their noses and fingers in the affairs of sovereign countries, ruffling feathers and stirring up so much unrest and insecurity.

 

This does not bode well for South Korea. Having a very undiplomatic trigger-happy ally will cause so much grief for the Koreans.

 

 

[F4UCorsair]

9 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

           Think about this for a moment:  When Trump became prez-elect, he had access to all security data available to Obama.  He was briefed by all the security agencies.  Whether he understood or even stayed awake for the briefings, is anyone's guess.  He has a reputation for not reading books and having an attention span of a canary.  However, my point is:  he also had access to everything the FBI and other agencies were garnering about him, his people with possible/probably law-breaking.  

 

                    He can't make the data disappear (though he would love to, and there's another story of how he has been trying to delete all climate change data/research at the EPA).  Yet, by knowing everything the FBI and others have on him and his people, gives him great advantage in skewing/slowing any investigations.  He also has firing powers.  He could fire Comey with a phone call.  In sum, it's going to be very difficult to bust Trump for his law-breaking, because he controls so many puppet strings as prez.

 

                     The point I want to make which relates more directly to this thread is this:  Trump (and Bannon and Kushner) can get all sorts of 'intelligence' data, BUT IT'S WHAT THEY DO WITH IT, THAT'S IMPORTANT.  The reason I was comparing myself to the men running the Oval Office is:  I'll be the first to admit that I'm not privy to as much secret data as they are,  BUT HOW A PERSON IN POWER, ACTS OR REACTS to the data, is of the utmost importance.  

 

                  I'll try to curb my verbosity, and close with this:  I have zero faith in Trump or his top people, when it comes to interpreting sensitive data, and acting on it wisely.  ZERO. ZILCH. NADA.  And I speak for a majority of Americans.  There are a slew of proofs showing Trump screwing up and doing/saying the wrong things.  From not shaking hands with Merkel, to not knowing where the Carl Vinson was, to appointing an anti-EPA person to head EPA, to keeping Flynn in top security position for weeks after knowing he was a paid agent for a foreign country,   .......the list is very very long.  Sad times for the USA.

I imagine that it would be difficult to bust ANY President for law breaking, and partly due to a reluctance by the law enforcement authorities to do so, but it has been done.

 

You make it clear that you have no faith in anyone from the right of politics, so the rest follows.  I'll say no more on that issue.

 

I note a recent poll showed that those who did vote for him would do so again, and please, let's not get into "he didn't win the popular vote" issue.

 

Let's wait and see if he is impeached, and if as you say, he is "guilty" before the event, you will have been right.

 

However, and I mention this only in passing, the only two Presidents who have been impeached were Democrats, most recently Bill Clinton.  

[F4UCorsair]

1 hour ago, mvdf said:

This entire drama is fraught with danger and South Korea is most prone to that danger with Seoul just a stone's throw from the DMZ.

 

Baffles me why the United States doesn't get it. All this meddling and interfering and provoking is not welcome in Asia and other parts of this planet. They keep sticking their noses and fingers in the affairs of sovereign countries, ruffling feathers and stirring up so much unrest and insecurity.

 

This does not bode well for South Korea. Having a very undiplomatic trigger-happy ally will cause so much grief for the Koreans.

 

 

 

So much grief, but more importantly, so much firepower/retaliation if the idiot from the north does move against his southern neighbor.

[Rob13]

A game of brinkmanship played by 2 bat-sh*t crazies. What happened to  trump's isolationist platform?

[Canada]

This problem with Kim is similar to drug addiction-it's not going away or getting better on it's own. 

He needs to be eliminated. The sooner the better. There will be collateral damage. There will be more if the world waits till later. 

 

 

[transam]

3 hours ago, mvdf said:

This entire drama is fraught with danger and South Korea is most prone to that danger with Seoul just a stone's throw from the DMZ.

 

Baffles me why the United States doesn't get it. All this meddling and interfering and provoking is not welcome in Asia and other parts of this planet. They keep sticking their noses and fingers in the affairs of sovereign countries, ruffling feathers and stirring up so much unrest and insecurity.

 

This does not bode well for South Korea. Having a very undiplomatic trigger-happy ally will cause so much grief for the Koreans.

 

 

The issue is Nuclear missiles in the hands of a nutty regime, not a zillion blokes waiving rifles around. A very big difference, as Japan found out 70 years back and for sure they don't want it again..

[DavisH]

4 hours ago, mvdf said:

This entire drama is fraught with danger and South Korea is most prone to that danger with Seoul just a stone's throw from the DMZ.

 

Baffles me why the United States doesn't get it. All this meddling and interfering and provoking is not welcome in Asia and other parts of this planet. They keep sticking their noses and fingers in the affairs of sovereign countries, ruffling feathers and stirring up so much unrest and insecurity.

 

This does not bode well for South Korea. Having a very undiplomatic trigger-happy ally will cause so much grief for the Koreans.

 

 

And any nuclear attack on NK will cause dangerous levels of radioactive fallout across parts of China, Japan and South Korea, at the very least. No country wants that, and would surely would bring an immediate deadly response from NK.

[DavisH]

42 minutes ago, transam said:

The issue is Nuclear missiles in the hands of a nutty regime, not a zillion blokes waiving rifles around. A very big difference, as Japan found out 70 years back and for sure they don't want it again..

Nuclear disarmament should apply across all countries though, not just those with nutty regimes....give Trump some time. He may qualify too:)