Why do aircons seem to have so many problems here?

[Pib]

Attached is an "install" manual for a typical split A/C.  Shows things like piping distance (20 to 30 meters), allowed height differences between inside and outside unit, preparing the tubing connectors (i.e., flaring), tubing bends allowed, purging of the system, clearances, etc.

 

MitsubishiAC Install Manaul.pdf

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Pib

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, Naam said:

none!  in the guest room of my parents' house (loft) in Germany i installed 47 years ago small 5,000 btu/h rattler. that unit is used once or twice for a few days in summer. never serviced. cools well as it cooled last century.

Geez, and I thought persuading all the critters that had taken up residence there to move on  would be  a good idea.

Once had an ant nest move out when I ran a unit  at a resort.

[gk10002000]

Separate from the cooling or performance issues, what I noticed over the years in some places I stayed was how noisy the outdoor units were.  The bearings no doubt spun out or had long since used up their factory lube.  Do the units normally require or expect some oiling or greasing like Car grease fitting arrangements?  Finally some of the places had newer units that barely could be heard.

[Pib]

4 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

 Do the units normally require or expect some oiling or greasing like Car grease fitting arrangements?  

Nope.   The sealed compressor gets its lubrication from the oil added to the refrigerant and the outdoor unit fan motor has sealed/permanent bearings to protect it from the environment/rain.

[Dumbastheycome]

Two  cents  worth.

 After  repeated  problems  with a  Samsung  AC requiring  regular  re gassing even though all  piping unions have  been tested negative for leaks and  having   similar  problems  with a  large  commercial  refrigerator a friend  of a  friend  who has  long experience  in  refrigeration systems mentioned  that  often such problems  are actually  because of porosity in the unit specifically in the bends of  the  condensor coil .

As  such it is  a  manufacturing   problem  rather than an installation  problem.

If  that  can be indentified  within the   warranty  period the  solution  is replacement.

But often repeated  service  calls are made until  the  warranty is invalid.

On  my refrigeration  unit   it was  not difficult to demonstrate  gas  escaping from 3  bends even though there were  no  visible  cracks. Basically due  to bending stress of  tubing   material causing  microscopic  fractures.

Not  difficult  to  demonstrate  on a  refrigerator  but  definitely   not   so easy  on an AC  unit because of the construction  of the  whole unit.

 

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by Dumbastheycome
Bad spelling

[pizzachang]

On 4/27/2017 at 11:46 PM, Naam said:

because there are no different distances between evaporator and condenser to bridge? my shortest pipe length is 3.5 the longest 17meters.

 

next!

Connecting fittings is just one more way that an installation tech can make a mistake.  It is statistically more reliable than solder but  not a guarantee against leakage.  There are many variables in a/c installations and reliable techs are usually working for a reputable company.

I'd guess (having worked in industrial refrigeration [ammonia] for many years) that, "so many problems in Thailand" results from a limited number of common mistakes.

[NanLaew]

Good exchange of experience here and I still consider that the quality of the installation is the primary cause of early or repeat loss of cooling. Here's my experience over the best part of 25 years in LOS.

 

Decided to install a unit in the office at a new build. This was done about a year after all other construction had been completed. Noticed that when all the circuit breakers in the distribution box were turned off, including the main service breaker for the property, the air conditioner was still running. Never did work out where the 'electrician' in the installation team hooked it up to.

 

At an 8 year old rental property, the external condenser (compressor) unit was mounted high, under the eaves and caused a horrible resonance on the whole back wall. The landlord's preferred air conditioning team came and I suggested either the vibration isolators (shock mounts) were hard and needed replacement or relocate the unit to a lower location on the same wall (thicker wall). They relocated it to the lower location... and threw away the old vibration isloators but didn't replace them so had to call them back to do the job properly.

 

The day before Songkran this year, I had a unit replaced in one of the bedrooms of the family home. The guys wanted to mount the condenser unit on the cement pad rather than on the lower wall where there were already pre-drilled and loaded holes for the mounting angle brackets. Wanted to charge me 500 baht for the angle brackets which I successfully argued was included in the installation. When I came back to check, he had thrown away the vibration isolation and bolted them metal on metal because he didn't have long enough bolts. When the unit was turned on, the cooling was good... but the water feature down the wood blinds on the inside after 5 minutes wasn't expected! The 'technician' had forgotten to remove the factory-fitted, tape-on bung on the drain hose! After a few days, the evaporator (indoor fan unit) had an intermittent but very audible rattle at the fans lowest speed. The 'installer' and his sidekick visited twice but swore they could not hear anything despite two other people in the room hearing it. They ultimately suggested we call the shop we bought it from and see if they could do something about replacing it. Yesterday morning, I popped the covers and CORRECTLY installed the flexible plastic air filters. Rattle sorted!

 

Like most things related to home construction and improvement in LOS, it is the finishing that invariably lets the local tradesman down. From misaligned power point covers, mismatched skirting boards, reverse-wired lighting dimmers, half-inch water service points in the wrong place (usually by a maddening couple of inches) or squint so that hose fittings wont lie flush, it's all pretty much of a crap shoot unless you are riding herd on the whole job, be it a house build or a simple upgrade.

[Henryford]

Any recommendations for an AC repairer in the Jomtien area.. My LG ac has given up. I tried one (PK Air) made two appointments but they never showed up!

[giddyup]

25 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Any recommendations for an AC repairer in the Jomtien area.. My LG ac has given up. I tried one (PK Air) made two appointments but they never showed up!

Someone suggested ringing Numchai, they have service people.

[wpcoe]

Despite the ringing endorsements usually seen here for Numchai air con service folks, I was not all that impressed when they installed two Daikin air con units I bought from Numchai this year.  They didn't use the rubber bushings between the condenser and the metal wall bracket until I asked them to.  They had the rubber bushings and the longer bolts, but arbitrarily decided not to use them.  Also, I had the area for the air cons pre-wired by a competent electrician including a green earth/ground wire.  I brushed up against the metal of the exposed bolts on one of the condensers and could feel current leakage.  Obviously they didn't connect my green wire to the air con green wire.

[manarak]

42 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

Despite the ringing endorsements usually seen here for Numchai air con service folks, I was not all that impressed when they installed two Daikin air con units I bought from Numchai this year.  They didn't use the rubber bushings between the condenser and the metal wall bracket until I asked them to.  They had the rubber bushings and the longer bolts, but arbitrarily decided not to use them.  Also, I had the area for the air cons pre-wired by a competent electrician including a green earth/ground wire.  I brushed up against the metal of the exposed bolts on one of the condensers and could feel current leakage.  Obviously they didn't connect my green wire to the air con green wire.

Many Thai workers not only cut every corner they can because they are lazy, but they are also doing the job wrong and in most cases dirty and damage your home in some way. Many also won't bring the adequate tools to do the job.

A think to get used to in Thailand.

 

This is not intended to be a Thai-bashing post, but that's my experience with 95% of "changs" who worked in my properties.

Sometimes when a decent worker turns up I can't believe my luck.

 

The last crew from Numchai left the usual black hand prints on the walls but also a 20 cm scratch on one of the interior doors.

For some reason, the aircon unit came covered with stickers - I asked them to take them off and now traces of sticker glue remain.

These are the moments where living in Thailand is an annoyance and I miss European German or Swiss workmanship.

Edited April 30, 2017 by manarak

[abab]

34 minutes ago, manarak said:

Many Thai workers not only cut every corner they can because they are lazy, but they are also doing the job wrong and in most cases dirty and damage your home in some way. Many also won't bring the adequate tools to do the job.

A think to get used to in Thailand.

 

This is not intended to be a Thai-bashing post, but that's my experience with 95% of "changs" who worked in my properties.

Sometimes when a decent worker turns up I can't believe my luck.

 

The last crew from Numchai left the usual black hand prints on the walls but also a 20 cm scratch on one of the interior doors.

For some reason, the aircon unit came covered with stickers - I asked them to take them off and now traces of sticker glue remain.

These are the moments where living in Thailand is an annoyance and I miss European German or Swiss workmanship.

 

 

Never found an aircon not delivered with shiiite stickers. Maybe these people who also put shiiite stickers on their cars think that it's nice ?

 

 

[Naam]

1 hour ago, abab said:

Never found an aircon not delivered with shiiite stickers. Maybe these people who also put shiiite stickers on their cars think that it's nice ?

no unjustified theories out of thin air please. the stickers have a function! they prove that customs duty on imported parts, excise duty and VAT has been paid. removing them could (theoretically) cause legal problems.

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, wpcoe said:

Also, I had the area for the air cons pre-wired by a competent electrician including a green earth/ground wire.  I brushed up against the metal of the exposed bolts on one of the condensers and could feel current leakage.  Obviously they didn't connect my green wire to the air con green wire.

Dangerous assumption #1: The electrician that pre-wired the installation was competent.

 

Dangerous assumption #2: Believing that aforementioned competent electrician tied the other end of the green earth wire to a physical earthing ground spike.

[wpcoe]

7 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Dangerous assumption #1: The electrician that pre-wired the installation was competent.

 

Dangerous assumption #2: Believing that aforementioned competent electrician tied the other end of the green earth wire to a physical earthing ground spike.

Not assumptions.  

[manarak]

23 hours ago, Naam said:

no unjustified theories out of thin air please. the stickers have a function! they prove that customs duty on imported parts, excise duty and VAT has been paid. removing them could (theoretically) cause legal problems.

the tax stickers are rather discreet as they are either on the sides or under the unit.

I am talking about the energy efficiency stickers and advertising stickers saying for example "plasma filter" and "bla bla airflow, and bla and bla. no less than 4 big ugly stickers on the front of my new Sharp aircon...

If they feel the need to slap stickers on their new aircons, why don't they at least have the decency to use glue that comes off easily?

[Pib]

The stickers are needed to reinforce the very thin plastic casing of many A/Cs now days.