Don Muang Airport clamping down

[TechnikaIII]

52 minutes ago, Ashto said:

Where can I find the Police Orders restricting visa exempt entries?

Jack Thompson, feel free to go and have a word with the Immigration supervisor at Don Muang and tell her she is either ignorant or not telling the truth.  

Kindly let us know how you go with that one. :-)

[JackThompson]

45 minutes ago, Ashto said:

Where can I find the Police Orders restricting visa exempt entries?

Good question.  UJ can probably provide the links.  A sampling...

The Now Defunct Police order often called the "180-day" rule (actually is 90/6-mo), which was up on Consulate websites for years after it was no longer in effect, and has been reported as being quoted to people by IOs:
"Foreigners who enter Thailand under the Tourist Visa Exemption category and would like to leave and re-enter may only stay for a cumulative duration which does not exceed 90 days and is within a 6-month period from the date of first entry."

 

That order was rescinded when Visa-Exempt Entries at Land-Borders were changed to 15 days.
... amended when Visa-Exempt Entries at Land-Borders for G-7 countries were raised to 30-days (November 2013)

... amended when Visa-Exempt Entry-extensions were raised to 30 days, instead of only 7 days (August 2014).

... amended when Visa-Exempt Entries at Land-Borders were limited to 2-per-calendar-year for all who don't have bilateral deals - mostly neighboring countries, where 99% of the illegal-workers living in Thailand actually originate. (Announced Dec 2016, began Jan 1, 2017).

Wording in these and/or others specified that Visa-Exempts were NOT to be used for frequent / cumulative-longer periods of stay in Thailand, though I do not have those quotes / posts handy.
 

6 minutes ago, TechnikaIII said:

Jack Thompson, feel free to go and have a word with the Immigration supervisor at Don Muang and tell her she is either ignorant or not telling the truth.  

Kindly let us know how you go with that one. :-)

That won't happen, because I do not ever enter at Thai Airports.  At the airport, an IO / supervisor can write whatever reason for denial of entry in your passport they want (whether true or false), lock you in detention, and force you to buy a ticket somewhere you don't want to go - possibly far, far away.  At a land-border, they might say, "No, go away," and you can go back to a comfortable guesthouse, and come up with Plan B.

 

The "real motivation" vs any "legal justification" - existent or not - for a denial of entry doesn't really matter, because either way, you "ain't gettin' in." 

Maybe, someday, someone with some spare-time (and significant immunity to boredom in detention) will go through the appeal-process, and we will find out how that actually works out - but it will not be me.

[gandalf12]

7 hours ago, maccastime said:

Yes they don't like farang coming to Thailand paying rent,buying food,or spending money for a few beers in a bar?

What a load of drivel. Why is it so many people feel they have to slag off Thailand? Every country has rules, just stick to them.

[impulse]

8 hours ago, maccastime said:

Yes they don't like farang coming to Thailand paying rent,buying food,or spending money for a few beers in a bar?

 

My heart goes out to the OP and other legitimate visitors who occasionally get caught up and inconvenienced by the vagaries.  But I think the rules are pretty humane for neophyte travelers who've seen too many movies and think they're going to show up for a year or two in Thailand and finance their stay by waiting tables, slinging drinks, doing odd jobs or selling a portion of their stash.  And I think they would significantly outnumber the legitimate visitors who are, at worst, inconvenienced- forced to rectify whatever has stopped them at the border.

Edited May 5, 2017 by impulse

[ubonjoe]

4 hours ago, Ashto said:

Where can I find the Police Orders restricting visa exempt entries?

Here are immigrations guidelines for visa exempt entries from June 2014. Visa Exempt Guidelines June 2014.pdf

[Eff1n2ret]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

My heart goes out to the OP.....

Well, he recounted some problem  that's arisen because of his preference for spending periods in Thailand of a duration and frequency that have caused Immigration Officers to doubt his claimed status as a tourist. Then he says it's "Food for thought for you other old fellas! "

Quite a few of us other old fellas have pointed out that unlike under-50s he has a fairly painless and easy remedy, so I can't say that he is high on the list for sympathy. I can understand if, as he says in #35, he doesn't want to commit 800k to a Thai bank account, but if he can't or won't use the alternative method, there's not much more to be said.

But us other old fellas are doing just fine.

[thecyclist]

Don't think it had anything to do with exceeding 180 days.I arrived at Don Mueang last week,way above 180 days in 2016, but mainly TVs.There was no problem at all.

[impulse]

12 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

.....

But us other old fellas are doing just fine.

 

We're all doing fine today.  Just as the OP was doing fine until the rules (or the enforcement of those rules) changed, and he spent some uncomfortable time on the hot seat this time, though he apparently did nothing different.  Had he made the same entry 3 years ago, he'd have sailed through.

 

My heart still goes out to him because I don't know if and when the rules will change and I'll be on that same hot seat in spite of doing nothing different and having every expectation of sailing through immigration one more time.

 

 

[Asiantravel]

22 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

Well, he recounted some problem  that's arisen because of his preference for spending periods in Thailand of a duration and frequency that have caused Immigration Officers to doubt his claimed status as a tourist. Then he says it's "Food for thought for you other old fellas! "

Quite a few of us other old fellas have pointed out that unlike under-50s he has a fairly painless and easy remedy, so I can't say that he is high on the list for sympathy. I can understand if, as he says in #35, he doesn't want to commit 800k to a Thai bank account, but if he can't or won't use the alternative method, there's not much more to be said.

But us other old fellas are doing just fine.

I agree with everything you say about getting a retirement Visa.

But it still seems strange to me they suspect a 67-year-old is working here. I mean what kind of menial work would a person  be carrying out at that age?

About 10 years ago I remember a Singaporean guy in Bangkok who was in his 60s and lecturing at ABAC University telling me about his decision to retire in New Zealand (which he did) because he said after you  reach 60 even the students in Thailand consider you to be obsolete.

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, Asiantravel said:

But it still seems strange to me they suspect a 67-year-old is working here. I mean what kind of menial work would a person  be carrying out at that age?

 

I have a number of colleagues and friends in their 70s who are earning six figure (USD) salaries in Thailand, they are certainly not mopping out the lavs.

 

Cleaning up other people's messes, yes, cleaning the lavs, no.

 

It's what we do, and why the monthly invoice is what it is.

 

And it's all legal and above board.

 

[seancbk]

8 minutes ago, Asiantravel said:

I agree with everything you say about getting a retirement Visa.

But it still seems strange to me they suspect a 67-year-old is working here. I mean what kind of menial work would a person  be carrying out at that age?

About 10 years ago I remember a Singaporean guy in Bangkok who was in his 60s and lecturing at ABAC University telling me about his decision to retire in New Zealand (which he did) because he said after you  reach 60 even the students in Thailand consider you to be obsolete.

 

Some 67 year olds can pass for 50 something.  

In the same way some 40 year olds look like they are in their 60's

 

[Crossy]

Some time back, and not at DMK, it was that other airport, begins with an S.

 

Despite my having X years of work extensions in my passport, an IO (on a bad day I suspect) asked me to show cash and when showed the relevant wedge then asked for my Work Permit, which I also carried. Probably the most grudging stamp I've ever received.

 

It's not like I looked like a hippie (it wasn't that long ago, but don't ask to see my first wedding photos). Smart casual, chinos, socks. OK slightly haggard after doing Bangalore, Singapore, Delhi, Bangkok in two days (and in cattle-class) but still reasonably fragrant.

 

Such is life, and the shower when I got home was absolute bliss.

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, gandalf12 said:

What a load of drivel. Why is it so many people feel they have to slag off Thailand? Every country has rules, just stick to them.

 

Thanks to UJ for posting the 2014 Visa Exempt guidelines, though the lack of precise definitions leaves much to be desired.

• Add: Only 2 per calendar year at land-borders (newer rule than the guidelines)

then ..

• The alien must not enter the Kingdom by exploiting 30­day visa exemptions undertaking method “in­out” or called by foreigners as “Visa run”. Aliens use the advantage of Tourist Visa Exemption by leaving Thailand and returning immediately for the purpose of extending their stay...
  • How long should the alien be gone before returning?  Please specify in days.
• Alien will be interviewed and requested to show evidence such as tickets, pocket money, booking slip, traveling plan.
  • Pocket Money = 10,000 Baht - At least we know much (from other docs), but it should also say:
    • Alien will not be permitted to go to the ATM a few feet away and fetch the money, or show a balance many times that amount on a credit or debit card, though this is how "money" is used in the world, today, when it is still used at all.
  • Tickets - Outgoing flight - ok, easy enough - but 30 or 60 days (with extension) in the future?
  • Traveling plan - so, something anyone could just "make up" by copying from a "things to do in Thailand" webpage?

• Upon complete evidence of entering the Kingdom for tourism purpose and not for working purpose, alien shall be granted...

  • How does one prove one "will not in the future" do something?  Almost anyone who can still enjoy life could be working illegally - and those who can't won't be coming here Visa Exempt (maybe on a medical-visa). 

  • How about a bank-book with a 100K-baht in it?  Wouldn't that be easier to 'prove' no 'need' to work for at least 30-days?  Oh, wait, bank books don't count at entry-points, only at Consulates, where cash doesn't count. 

My solution?  Never arrive Visa-Exempt.  If you only come once or twice a year - maybe, but as soon as you hit 6 total ever, beware.  You may get through, but may also wish you had simply picked up a Tourist Visa, to save trouble on arrival. 

 

It makes no sense to have an arbitrary rule like "6 Ever" ('ever' assumed, but maybe there is a secret cut-off) - rather than an algorithm a tiny-bit more complex (a High School comp-sci student could do it), which could automatically check things like frequency of use, avg-length of stay, etc.  Then PUBLISH how the algorithm works - maybe put it on a web-page where people can input their Thai-visit history (or don't, and we can make one for this site), so everyone knows where they stand and exactly what to expect.  Oh, wait, then people might "abuse the system" (trademark - angry/jealous brigade) by doing exactly what is permitted - and not a bit more.  So better to just put everyone into fear, uncertainty and doubt.  That'll show 'em who's boss.

Edited May 5, 2017 by JackThompson

[Crossy]

Sorry @JackThompson that would be logic, Thai government departments don't do logic.

 

Spock would have a heart attack (did he have two hearts, or is that Dr Who?).

[Asiantravel]

15 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

I have a number of colleagues and friends in their 70s who are earning six figure (USD) salaries in Thailand, they are certainly not mopping out the lavs.

 

Cleaning up other people's messes, yes, cleaning the lavs, no.

 

It's what we do, and why the monthly invoice is what it is.

 

And it's all legal and above board.

 

 

but in the OP's case it's not only the age thing - it's also hard to imagine how they could suspect  he was carrying out any kind of work because he claims was nowhere near exceeding 180 days in the country in 2017. 

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Probably the most grudging stamp I've ever received.

Some of those guys just need a big spittoon next to them, so instead of doing the "angry face followed by turn head away in disgust" routine, they can look you in the eye, then spit loudly in the spittoon - like an old Western movie before the shootout. 

The screening for applicants for that job must be quite interesting - or maybe the Fear Uncertainty and Doubt in the job (subtext: "There are no hard and fast accountable-rules you can follow, but if a bad-guy gets in, its Your Fault.") just wears them down.

[Crossy]

@JackThompson if you get the urge, travel back in time to my posts made during the "real" 180 day limit period. I think I must have "that kind of face"

 

I got pulled 4 times out of 5 by Dutch customs too (no iffy items whatever were found).

 

 

[overherebc]

6 hours ago, buick said:

 

i'm just stating what occurred to me during the process.  it was not convenient.  i don't think i blamed thai immigration for anything.  unfortunately there are steps you have to take in the process which don't include thai immigration and it can be inconvenient.  here is an example of my idea of convenience.  i wake up, realize i'm out of coffee, walk across the street to 7-11, buy the coffee, and i'm back in my room in a couple minutes.

 

saying 'get the proper visa, it is convenient' is really not an accurate statement in my case.  and those statements in this thread led to my rant of sorts.

 

 

most of what you are referring to is in the paragraph where i explain why it isn't convenient for me to apply for a non OA in america (your post implies that it is related to doing such in thailand, it isn't).  and i refer you to my comment above in terms of what i feel is 'convenient'.
 

 

I would find it most inconvenient to jump through all the hoops if my wife and self wanted to go to the USA for a 3 or 4 weeks holiday.

Please don't tell me it's difficult/inconvenient to obtain the correct visa for your visits to Thailand.

The effort you would have to make is minimal compared to the effort required by Thai people who wish to visit the USA.

[playboy]

Hi Ubonjoe,  sorry for out of topic here, you wrote " It is possible to get almost 2 years of total stay from the visa by doing an entry just before the visa expires."  How you can have almost 2 year.  If my Non-o visa is multiple entry 1 year.  after each entry of 3 months each till almost the end of visa validity(expires).  I used the last 3 months at the end of visa validity. so it will give me 15 months in total.  How can I make it to be almost 2 year?   Can you please clarify and thank you in advance.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, playboy said:

Hi Ubonjoe,  sorry for out of topic here, you wrote " It is possible to get almost 2 years of total stay from the visa by doing an entry just before the visa expires."  How you can have almost 2 year.  If my Non-o visa is multiple entry 1 year.  after each entry of 3 months each till almost the end of visa validity(expires).  I used the last 3 months at the end of visa validity. so it will give me 15 months in total.  How can I make it to be almost 2 year?   Can you please clarify and thank you in advance.

You have a non-o visa not a non-oa visa. A non-oa visa allows one year entries not 90 days like the the non-o via your have now.

If you are married to a Thai you can get almost 17 months by getting a 60 day extension to visit your wife.

[gk10002000]

11 hours ago, maccastime said:

Yes they don't like farang coming to Thailand paying rent,buying food,or spending money for a few beers in a bar?

yeah.  I can understand in principle but not in practice why a country would not want Tourist visas to be constantly used for long long term or frequent visits or actually to retire on.  I do understand Thailand trying to track people working illegally.  But just because somebody spends a lot of time in country doesn't mean they are working illegally!  They do have some reasonable retirement visas.  Being over 50 seemed like a rather arbitrary categorization but for the OP it would seem to be very doable as others have said with re-entry permits, since he said he was 67. 

[Maestro]

Removed some troll posts and the replies to them.

[impulse]

14 hours ago, Crossy said:

Some time back, and not at DMK, it was that other airport, begins with an S.

 

Despite my having X years of work extensions in my passport, an IO (on a bad day I suspect) asked me to show cash and when showed the relevant wedge then asked for my Work Permit, which I also carried. Probably the most grudging stamp I've ever received.

 

It's not like I looked like a hippie (it wasn't that long ago, but don't ask to see my first wedding photos). Smart casual, chinos, socks. OK slightly haggard after doing Bangalore, Singapore, Delhi, Bangkok in two days (and in cattle-class) but still reasonably fragrant.

 

Such is life, and the shower when I got home was absolute bliss.

 

Last time I entered with my WP, the IO stamped me in, then as an afterthought asked me if I had a WP.  I showed it to him and he did all kinds of crossing out and revisions and initialing his changes and sent me on my way.  

 

I was a little nervous leaving 85 days later with all the hen scratching on the entry stamp, but it was smooth sailing.

 

We all have our off days...  

 

Edited May 6, 2017 by impulse

[elgenon]

On 5/4/2017 at 7:36 PM, tonray said:

I just obtained one from the NYC Consulate 3 weeks ago.

I remember hearing they stopped issuing them in Portland. And that they wouldn't give them to residents in Southern California anyway.

 

Do you know if a resident of California can get one out of NYC?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, elgenon said:

I remember hearing they stopped issuing them in Portland. And that they wouldn't give them to residents in Southern California anyway.

 

Do you know if a resident of California can get one out of NYC?

Only the embassy and official consulates can issue a OA visa. Portland is a honorary consulate.

You can apply for it at the consulate in Los Angeles. See: http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/service_visa_detail.aspx?link_id=48

[elgenon]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Only the embassy and official consulates can issue a OA visa. Portland is a honorary consulate.

You can apply for it at the consulate in Los Angeles. See: http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/service_visa_detail.aspx?link_id=48

My friend was getting one out of Portland that was not a retirement visa. Do you what that was?

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, elgenon said:

My friend was getting one out of Portland that was not a retirement visa. Do you what that was?

He was probably getting a multiple entry non-o visa. The embassy took away the honorary consulates authority to issue any multiple entry visas in August of last year. The can still issue a single entry non-o visa.

[buick]

16 hours ago, overherebc said:

I would find it most inconvenient to jump through all the hoops if my wife and self wanted to go to the USA for a 3 or 4 weeks holiday.

Please don't tell me it's difficult/inconvenient to obtain the correct visa for your visits to Thailand.

The effort you would have to make is minimal compared to the effort required by Thai people who wish to visit the USA.

i share your frustration with USA immigration.  it is sometimes difficult for me to enter the country and i'm a US citizen with a valid passport.  i've even spent time in the airport jail in los angeles after i told an immigration officer to <deleted> off when he told me i needed to present a business credit card to prove i had a job in order to enter the country.  it is too bad i didn't get a video of the whole thing.

 

but your comment doesn't seem relevant to this thread.  we are talking about thailand visas.  any discussion of USA visas is really off topic. 

[SiamBeast]

Everywhere on Earth, laws are made because people abuse the system.

 

A tourist visa is for tourists. If you've been there for 180 days, you are not a tourist, therefore you are trying to enter the country with the wrong visa.

[playboy]

Thank you Ubonjoe for the informations.  So must be Non-oa! to get 2 years.