Making the Move - Visa confusion

[Goonerandy]

Firstly, apologies for asking something which has probably been asked countless times before. I have looked in depth through the forum, but there is that much info it can be on a little overwhelming.

 

so....... .

 

My wife and I intend to move to Thailand early next year and begin life there teaching English. We both have accredited TEFL qualification (amongst of teacher type qualifications). My wife also has a degree, but I don't.

 

My question is; how will not having a degree impact on my obtaining the relevant visas and work permits?

 

Any help is much appreciated.

[tonray]

Yes it will negatively affect your ability to work legally in some circumstances. It will be difficult to obtain a work permit.

[jeab1980]

Hi intersting read

2016

Published on 01/13/2016 by Andrew Bond

FacebookTwitterGoogle+LinkedInPinterest

Before you book your flight and sign up for a program teaching English in Thailand, it’s important to be familiar with the Ministry of Education regulations and visas for English teachers in Thailand -- not everyone can just arrive and start working there. In this article, local expert Andrew Bond, runs through the 2016 stipulations to work legally as a teacher in Thailand.

Thailand is a popular country to start out teaching, it’s laid-back, cheap and ideal for undertaking the necessary training. Some 10,000 people already teach English in the country, but not all are welcome. The Ministry of Education has a fairly strict licensing procedure before you can be let loose in the classroom.

That said, there is presently a shortage and many people land jobs ‘unofficially’. If you wish to do it properly and avoid a nasty expulsion or visa hassles, then its worth knowing the ins and outs of work permits and visas for teachers in Thailand before arriving.

Getting Your Teacher's License to Teach Legally in Thailand

Most TEFL teachers in Thailand are employed on a temporary teacher’s license, which is good for two years and may be renewed once more.

After that, you are expected to get properly qualified with a teaching diploma. A rookie teacher being offered a job will have the application made on their behalf through the school, and then use this to apply for the work permit and visa extension.

In order to apply for the license, you'll need:

• A graduate of a recognized university, with a full degree (undergrads, higher diplomas, and associate degrees are not recognized)
• A police clearance certificate from your country
• A TOEIC score of 600+ or IELTS score of 5+ if you are from a non-native speaking country (which includes South Africa)

Important note:

When you apply to the Teacher’s Council of Thailand they usually ask to see the original of your college transcripts and may even wish to retain them, so bring extra copies. A verified copy of your passport from the local embassy is also required.

So, unfortunately, without a degree you're unable to work formally in Thailand. However, due to demand, many language schools / non-formal schools employ teachers without going down the teacher license route and make an alternative arrangement for work permits instead.

Some teachers never get a work permit and work illegally, staying in Thailand on another visa type. Mostly they get away with it and the penalty if discovered is a fine to the employer and possible deportation. Since May 2014, the authorities have clamped down on this practice, but it persists.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

"We both have accredited TEFL qualification (amongst of teacher type qualifications). My wife also has a degree, but I don't."

 

What does this mean?

 

TEFL is a useless paper in Thailand. Degree is what matters.

 

 

[maewang99]

not only not so useful paperwork wise....

 

a TEFL earned outside Thailand program usually revolves around lesson plans for 20 or fewer students.... not 50 or 100 students for learning "conversation".... which is the norm here at public schools and university, at least that I worked at.  

just a simple assessment of speaking and listening skills of that many students..... is absolutely exhausting. barely possible sometimes.
 

[Goonerandy]

"We both have accredited TEFL qualification (amongst of teacher type qualifications). My wife also has a degree, but I don't."
 
What does this mean?
 
TEFL is a useless paper in Thailand. Degree is what matters.
 
 

Stuff like PTLLS and Trinity Cert IBet.

I do know plenty of people working just in the strength of a TEFL certificate without degrees, but ideally I wanted to do it properly as this is not a short term thing for us.

We did our TEFL in Thailand with a good company. It included actual teaching in Thai schools and is recognised by the Thai Ministry of Education.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tonray]

4 hours ago, Goonerandy said:

Stuff like PTLLS and Trinity Cert IBet.

I do know plenty of people working just in the strength of a TEFL certificate without degrees, but ideally I wanted to do it properly as this is not a short term thing for us.

We did our TEFL in Thailand with a good company. It included actual teaching in Thai schools and is recognised by the Thai Ministry of Education.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

As you are already aware, your biggest impediment is going to be the lack of a college degree. Why not get one before your move and make your life a bit easier ? It certainly would not hurt your career prospects for the future no matter where you stay or what you choose to do.

 

Life without a degree in this day and age is difficult and studies have shown that non-degreed persons are at a significant disadvantage in life over time. I wish you well.

[YetAnother]

this police certificate does not exist in the usa; i tried to get one and the large police office laughed me out of the room

[tonray]

1 minute ago, YetAnother said:

this police certificate does not exist in the usa; i tried to get one and the large police office laughed me out of the room

It does...I have done it several times. It's called a criminal background or history check. It is the same one required for a long stay O-A) so many have obtained it. You need to find out how your state of residence processes it.

[YetAnother]

aside from the technical qualifications, you might read up , via various forums, on the attitudes of thai students (not attending exams,etc) and also the attitudes of thai teachers toward non thai teachers

[duanebigsby]

7 hours ago, Goonerandy said:

Stuff like PTLLS and Trinity Cert IBet.

I do know plenty of people working just in the strength of a TEFL certificate without degrees, but ideally I wanted to do it properly as this is not a short term thing for us.

We did our TEFL in Thailand with a good company. It included actual teaching in Thai schools and is recognised by the Thai Ministry of Education.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

You must know plenty of people working without work permits then. No degree no work permit. Some have gotten around it by the school "renaming"  the job position to something like "English IT adviser" or some other rot. for long term, even with a degree, you can currently only get  six years maximum of teaching waivers without a proper B Ed degree.

[brewsterbudgen]

There are plenty of jobs (but mainly in Bangkok) teaching adults, teenagers in language schools, which don't require a teacher's licence.  While most require a degree, if your face fits and they like you, there are ways round it!  There is also quite a bit of corporate work, teaching in "business English".  Again, if they think you are suitable and the company likes you, the lack of a degree may not matter.  Don't expect to earn a fortune though!

[tonray]

8 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

There are plenty of jobs (but mainly in Bangkok) teaching adults, teenagers in language schools, which don't require a teacher's licence.  While most require a degree, if your face fits and they like you, there are ways round it!  There is also quite a bit of corporate work, teaching in "business English".  Again, if they think you are suitable and the company likes you, the lack of a degree may not matter.  Don't expect to earn a fortune though!

The problem will be maintaining residence.  Tourist visa and working to illegally to stay afloat is no kind of plan

[NoshowJones]

14 hours ago, tonray said:

Yes it will negatively affect your ability to work legally in some circumstances. It will be difficult to obtain a work permit.

A lot would depend on where the OP will be staying, I taught here up country for three years and the school got my work permit for me, I have no degree although I completed a six week course teacher training course.

[tonray]

3 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

A lot would depend on where the OP will be staying, I taught here up country for three years and the school got my work permit for me, I have no degree although I completed a six week course teacher training course.

Were you classified as a teacher or as some other title? 

[muzmurray]

40 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

You must know plenty of people working without work permits then. No degree no work permit. Some have gotten around it by the school "renaming"  the job position to something like "English IT adviser" or some other rot. for long term, even with a degree, you can currently only get  six years maximum of teaching waivers without a proper B Ed degree.

 

It does not have to be a B Ed, you could do a PGCE or a PGCEi or even an Ed Diploma from a couple of places in the Philippines. All are accepted by the TCT.

[NoshowJones]

10 minutes ago, tonray said:

Were you classified as a teacher or as some other title? 

I was classified as a teacher. It is quite common for teachers to get a work permit up here in the sticks, without a degree, but you will need a TEFL certificate, and you won't get the same wages as you would in say, Bangkok.

[skatewash]

15 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

Hi intersting read

2016

Published on 01/13/2016 by Andrew Bond

FacebookTwitterGoogle+LinkedInPinterest

Before you book your flight and sign up for a program teaching English in Thailand, it’s important to be familiar with the Ministry of Education regulations and visas for English teachers in Thailand -- not everyone can just arrive and start working there. In this article, local expert Andrew Bond, runs through the 2016 stipulations to work legally as a teacher in Thailand.

 

Here's a direct link to the rest of the article, which is an interesting read:

https://www.gooverseas.com/blog/how-to-teach-legally-in-thailand-in-2016

[duanebigsby]

29 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

It does not have to be a B Ed, you could do a PGCE or a PGCEi or even an Ed Diploma from a couple of places in the Philippines. All are accepted by the TCT.

Thanks for the additional information. I might have to look into it. Years ago there was a series of test you could pass and Thailand would give you the license as well but that was suspended.

[Thaidream]

Frankly speaking- teaching English in Thailand leads to nowhere.  If you are American and you are in your best earning years- coming to Thailand is a waste of time. in addition, you would be putting nothing into your Social Security Account and when it is time to retire- you had better have a sizable nest egg or you will be indigent.

 

Unless you have a large bank balance right now-or already have your Social Security credits- I would never leave the USA to work in Thailand or any other developing country. At the present, the American economy is on the verge of booming and you can also get financial assistance to get your degree. Don't think of your lifestyle right now- think of what it will be at age 62-the earliest you can get Social Security and possibly a pension from a Company.

[muzmurray]

6 hours ago, possum1931 said:

I was classified as a teacher. It is quite common for teachers to get a work permit up here in the sticks, without a degree, but you will need a TEFL certificate, and you won't get the same wages as you would in say, Bangkok.

 

A TEFL certificate has ZERO impact on getting a work permit! North, South, East or West !

[muzmurray]

5 hours ago, skatewash said:

Here's a direct link to the rest of the article, which is an interesting read:

https://www.gooverseas.com/blog/how-to-teach-legally-in-thailand-in-2016

"Most TEFL teachers in Thailand are employed on a temporary teacher’s license, which is good for two years and may be renewed once more." - It is a waiver for the licence, not a temporary licence. Many people have renewed more than once.

 

" visa extension." - No such thing.

 

"A police clearance certificate from your country" - You can also get a clearance certificate from Thailand.

 

"This involves a paper-chase at the Manpower department (yes, that's the actual name)," - Nope, you get your work permit at the Ministry of Labour.

 

"though you may have to leave the country to apply for the correct visa at a Thai embassy in a nearby Southeast Asian country. " - You can apply at a consulate too, and there is no requirement to apply in SE Asia.

 

The article is full of holes and should be taken with a pinch of salt !

[NoshowJones]

32 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

A TEFL certificate has ZERO impact on getting a work permit! North, South, East or West !

Well I showed my TEFL certificate to the school, they employed me as a teacher and got my work permit for me, if it has ZERO impact on

me getting a work permit, then that was between the school and the Labour Dept.

[ThaiWai]

If you want to be a teacher here go to ajarn.com.

How to warm a barstool or just get ripped to shreds?...You're in the right place already.

[Goonerandy]

Cheers for the replies.

If my wife gets a work permit (she has a degree) what visa could I get to accompany her? Is it the "O" visa?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[muzmurray]

12 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Well I showed my TEFL certificate to the school, they employed me as a teacher and got my work permit for me, if it has ZERO impact on

me getting a work permit, then that was between the school and the Labour Dept.

 You probably showed the school that you could wear a shirt and tie too, and yet again, that has nothing to do with getting a work permit,

[jeab1980]

13 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Well I showed my TEFL certificate to the school, they employed me as a teacher and got my work permit for me, if it has ZERO impact on

me getting a work permit, then that was between the school and the Labour Dept.

Yes same here 4 years on TEFL then another few years as a consultant!!

[tonray]

1 hour ago, Goonerandy said:

Cheers for the replies.

If my wife gets a work permit (she has a degree) what visa could I get to accompany her? Is it the "O" visa?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Yes. I believe you could qualify as a spouse on a Non Immigrant 'O' visa if she has valid permission to stay with legal work permit and extension

[muzmurray]

2 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Yes same here

 

Don't confuse showing your TEFL with it having any bearing on getting a work permit.

[jeab1980]

1 minute ago, muzmurray said:

 

Don't confuse showing your TEFL with it having any bearing on getting a work permit.

Confusing nothing i mearly agreed with @possum1931. I did nothing more than show the school my TEFL and non o based on marriage they did the rest and aquired me a WP. So i have no confusion.