Credit Card Woes

[Giggsy]

Some advice needed please. A friend of mine living in Thailand has fallen on hard times. Normal stuff, Thai girlfriend, failed bar etc. He has maxed out his UK credit cards and now has no money left in his bank in the UK to pay. One of his patrons has told him the credit card company will sell his debt to a Thai debt collector. He is now worried  that  might have repercussions on his Visa status and also his well being if the bailiffs come looking for him. Does anyone have any useful advice or had similar experience. He has no plans on going back to face the music.

[worgeordie]

How much does he owe ? and does he have any assets in Thailand.?

regards worgeordie

[Giggsy]

He owes between 7000 to 9000. No assets in his name. House and car in girlfriends name. 

[digbeth]

The credit card company is in the UK? 

Even Thai credit card debt takes a while to go through lawyers and debt collector agencies before it goes to court.

Does he have any source of income? 

[CharlieH]

Personally, I have never heard of the debt being sold into another country.

 

If he has no assets etc, he has nothing more to lose, go back and declare bankruptcy and it all goes away.

 

Good article here: 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/11154995/Heading-abroad-to-escape-your-debts-Think-again.html

 

 

[champers]

I think "one of his patrons" has been talking out of his bottom. Also, bankruptcy is easy but wrong. Credit history stays with you for life. Arrange a payment plan even if it will take years to pay back. It shows willing on the debtors part and encourages the debtor to find a source of income, i.e. a job. If your friend cannot find himself employment he will very likely come asking you for a loan to start a new business. That will be something for you to look forward to. If he truly has no plans to return home, how can he possibly survive?

[tazly]

Why do ppl describe these things as "falling on hard times".  Presumably he is an adult, and the outcomes are based on his own decisions.  Therefore he should face the music.  Personally, I think he should be sent to a debtor's prison!

[Pdavies99]

In the past, (having worked for Visa) it would not be cost effective for VISA to chase you for small amounts, however if they find out your Thailand address, they can send a Debt collector to see you, but unless they have taken you to court in the UK and referred it to a Thai court then a Thai Debt collector cannot enforce the debt, so this would be unlikely.  You should ask VISA UK to stop the interest charges and offer a monthly payment, no matter how small within reason.

It is known as an IVA, these can be formal through a solicitor etc or direct between you and the lender. Good Luck!

[theoldgit]

11 hours ago, champers said:

I think "one of his patrons" has been talking out of his bottom. Also, bankruptcy is easy but wrong. Credit history stays with you for life. Arrange a payment plan even if it will take years to pay back. It shows willing on the debtors part and encourages the debtor to find a source of income, i.e. a job. If your friend cannot find himself employment he will very likely come asking you for a loan to start a new business. That will be something for you to look forward to. If he truly has no plans to return home, how can he possibly survive?

It's not quite true that your credit history stays with you for life, your credit history remains on file for six years following a default after which it drops off and is no longer recorded or enforceable as it's statute barred.

The debt remains, it's just not on your credit file, creditors may write to you and ask you to pay after six years, but they cannot take enforcement action.

If however you acknowledge a debt before it's statute barred, the clock is reset. 

[CharlieH]

A post advocating illegal/fraudulent activity has been removed and some (allbeit appropriate) responses.

[scorecard]

13 hours ago, Giggsy said:

He owes between 7000 to 9000. No assets in his name. House and car in girlfriends name. 

 

Geez, pounds or Baht?

[jippytum]

I hope they do catch up with him .He is a thief and his actions make things more difficult for honest people

[NanLaew]

7 minutes ago, jippytum said:

I hope they do catch up with him .He is a thief and his actions make things more difficult for honest people

And of course we are all agreed that the banks that people owe money to are all paragons of honesty and virtue.

 

Stroll on.

[Gracas]

If he owes GBP 9000 (approx. 400,000 THB) is unable to pay and has no income how does he plan to stay in Thailand ? I would say he has more problems than just the credit card debt.

I do agree with what has been stated above, he should contact the CC company and arrange some sort of plan with them. He may need to return to the UK at some stage just to earn some money and needs to avoid returning to a bigger problem.

[wump]

48 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Geez, pounds or Baht?

 

You think he would start this thread because he is scared of a 200 pound debt collection? Geez...

[Sooo Upto Me]

12 hours ago, champers said:

I think "one of his patrons" has been talking out of his bottom. Also, bankruptcy is easy but wrong. Credit history stays with you for life. Arrange a payment plan even if it will take years to pay back. It shows willing on the debtors part and encourages the debtor to find a source of income, i.e. a job. If your friend cannot find himself employment he will very likely come asking you for a loan to start a new business. That will be something for you to look forward to. If he truly has no plans to return home, how can he possibly survive?

No wrong, credit history clears after 8yrs in the UK.

 

[Sooo Upto Me]

4 minutes ago, wump said:

 

You think he would start this thread because he is scared of a 200 pound debt collection? Geez...

And even 9000 pounds is not a massive debt to get too worried about, especially if its more than one credit card.

If he goes back to the UK they won't even be tracing him if he hasn't got a fixed address. 

The debt will be cleared on experia records after 8yrs.

[Sooo Upto Me]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

It's not quite true that your credit history stays with you for life, your credit history remains on file for six years following a default after which it drops off and is no longer recorded or enforceable as it's statute barred.

The debt remains, it's just not on your credit file, creditors may write to you and ask you to pay after six years, but they cannot take enforcement action.

If however you acknowledge a debt before it's statute barred, the clock is reset. 

8 years

[tomwct]

In the states, your credit history goes away after 7 years. I do not believe they would hire a debt collector. In my case, I had excellent credit in the states before I retired here 14 years ago now I have no credit history in the states. I do have a Citibank and a KTB Visa Cards in Thailand. I am now working with Citibank in the US to issue me a card, so I can create a credit history in the states. My wife wants to get her US Passport, so we'll have to return and live for 4 years.

Edited May 15, 2017 by tomwct

[al007]

Some pretty unkind comment by a few

 

People do get into debt, and rough things happen, I have helped a few, not so long ago I helped a man over 70 and in ill health freeze both his bank and credit card debt, both in the UK, he pays each £1 per month no interest, because of illness he is currently unable to work, both lenders have his Thailand address

 

His debts were several times what the OP states

 

We even got a statement from the credit card company saying they would not ask the person to pay what they could not afford

 

There are many laws in the UK that protect the borrower and if the lender is a big bank or credit card company they are likely to abide by these

 

He only has his UK pension, and lives in Thailand, he has no other assets

 

Your friend needs to contact one of the charities that help people in financial difficulties, use Google to find

 

Interest that has already been added is unlikely to be removed, so your friend needs to immediately take action

 

I have also been advised it is very unlikely a large and reputable  UK institution will pursue a debt here in Thailand

 

Yes credit history and ability to borrow more will be damaged, but that is not todays problem

 

My comments are made as a retired Chartered Accountant who has had first hand experience helping people in these situations

 

[paul18620]

26 minutes ago, al007 said:

Some pretty unkind comment by a few

 

People do get into debt, and rough things happen, I have helped a few, not so long ago I helped a man over 70 and in ill health freeze both his bank and credit card debt, both in the UK, he pays each £1 per month no interest, because of illness he is currently unable to work, both lenders have his Thailand address

 

His debts were several times what the OP states

 

We even got a statement from the credit card company saying they would not ask the person to pay what they could not afford

 

There are many laws in the UK that protect the borrower and if the lender is a big bank or credit card company they are likely to abide by these

 

He only has his UK pension, and lives in Thailand, he has no other assets

 

Your friend needs to contact one of the charities that help people in financial difficulties, use Google to find

 

Interest that has already been added is unlikely to be removed, so your friend needs to immediately take action

 

I have also been advised it is very unlikely a large and reputable  UK institution will pursue a debt here in Thailand

 

Yes credit history and ability to borrow more will be damaged, but that is not todays problem

 

My comments are made as a retired Chartered Accountant who has had first hand experience helping people in these situations

 

good post and kind words from a professional who knows what he is talking about ,unlike all the bashers already on this thread.

[Minnehaha]

2 hours ago, CharlieH said:

A post advocating illegal/fraudulent activity has been removed and some (allbeit appropriate) responses.

At risk of an appropriate response ... 

I would echo the point made above and expand a bit. The debt does not stay with you for life, so to speak. It does fall away in terms of credit report and such after a period of time - 7 years I believe, providing there is no contact with or reply to collection agencies. 

Failure to pay credit card debt is not a criminal offence, and not even sure failure to appear in court when called for credit card debt is exactly a criminal offence. They are civil offences and are handled differently. For example, if you fail to pay such debt and want to go back to that country you will not be stopped at immigration. If it were a criminal offence of some kind you might be. Same with visa info. 

And I have never heard of Visa coming after a person in a foreign country to pay an outstanding debt. They may call them in foreign country or mail them etc. They will certainly contact their family including spouse, parents etc. in the home country if they have their numbers and hassle them, although this is illegal and can be stopped easily. 

And certainly not for 6,000 pounds. With that sum, it is best to wait and not contact the company but monitor it. At some point you should contact them and offer to pay a portion of it in lump sum. 50% is a good place to hit. So say that is all there is and take it or leave it. Get it in writing that the debt will be cleared and then pay the amount and it is done and dusted. 

[gamini]

I think most of these replies are wrong. I had a dispute with American Express UK and refused to pay their bill.  They did send a Thai debt collector after me. He harassed me for quite a while and made threats about my Visa. However since  I was a permanent resident, I never had to renew my visa. I would strongly suggest that  somehow he settles his debts. With all the corruption in the immigration Department, an official could be bribed to threaten him about his visa.

[CharlieH]

6 minutes ago, gamini said:

I think most of these replies are wrong. I had a dispute with American Express UK and refused to pay their bill.  They did send a Thai debt collector after me. He harassed me for quite a while and made threats about my Visa. However since  I was a permanent resident, I never had to renew my visa. I would strongly suggest that  somehow he settles his debts. With all the corruption in the immigration Department, an official could be bribed to threaten him about his visa.

If the credit card company has offices in another country, as Amex does in Thailand, then it is possible for it to be transferred to the office in the debtors location.

 

If they dont have an office in that Country then it is unlikely.

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, tazly said:

Why do ppl describe these things as "falling on hard times".  Presumably he is an adult, and the outcomes are based on his own decisions.  Therefore he should face the music.  Personally, I think he should be sent to a debtor's prison!

And if those decisions include opening a bar and putting all your assets into a Thai girlfriend's name, not the best decisions at that.

 

Never heard of UK debt being sold to Thai collectors or it having international resprecussions so long as it is less than Medoff made off with.

[kingstonkid]

I would suggest that you (oops  ) your friend needs to look after a few problems

 

What visa is he on and how is he going to afford to stay here legally

 

What can he afford to pay each month

 

Once the CC finds out me is here they will accept anything reasonable

 

 

[lathamallika]

tell your friend to 3 letter the lender ,google conditional acceptance,most debts are sold on at pennies in the pound to debt collectors who will chase you for the full balance ,but they have to prove it to a court if they apply for a ccj ,most cant get the paperwork from the original creditor ,go on you tube type in conditional acceptance process ,its all there ,i am in the same situation with 18 k around my head and its stalemate for the debt collectors ,they cant get the proof after 6 years its unenforceable,then becomes statued barred best of luck

 

[theoldgit]

3 hours ago, Sooo Upto Me said:

8 years

No you're wrong, it's six years, unless it's a mortgage and then it's twelve years.

 

nationaldebtline/time-limits-for-recovering-debts/statute-barred-debt.aspx

 

National Debtline said:

A simple contract debt will normally be statute-barred if:

• the creditor has not already obtained a county court judgment (CCJ) against you; and
• you or anyone else owing the money (if your debt is in joint names) have not made a payment towards the debt during the last six years; and
• you have not written to the creditor admitting you owe the debt during the last six years.

 

[Nokawou]

I once noticed this on some website and it seems like good advice:

 

 

Answer: DON’T PAY YOUR CREDIT CARD DEBT if it is hurting the rest of your life.
Whatever you do: DO NOT file for bankruptcy. Then the courts just give the credit card companies your money. You have no say. Who do you think will win that battle?
It’s not an ethical issue. It’s a contract issue. You signed a contract.
Now the banks have to do their end of the contract. They have the full right to seize your assets. (but I’ll get to that in a second…)
By the way, the banks don’t even care. They have 100 PhDs who have already modeled out how many people will default.
They simply sell off your bad debt to hedge funds.
Why would a hedge fund buy your debt once you start to default? Easy: they pay 3 to 6 cents for every dollar you borrowed.
If you borrowed $1,000 on your credit card, the bank will sell it to a hedge fund for $30.
The hedge fund now has to collect from you.
I can tell you: these hedge funds do very well.
How do I know this?
Because I was invested in them. They buy your debt for three cents on the dollar and they might, on average, collect eight cents on the dollar.
They outsource to either collection agencies or law firms in your local area to collect from you.
Maybe they give the collection agencies, on average, two cents. So now the hedge funds have made 100% on their investment. Not a bad business to be in. These hedge funds still do very well to this day.
By the way, hedge funds analyze these collections of bad credit card debt like they would any other investment.
They look at the ages of the borrowers (younger age means they will pay less money), they look at the age of the debt (older means they will pay less money for the debt), and yes they look at race and gender and what state you live in.
North Carolina and West Virginia, for whatever reason, are the worst states if you are a buyer of batches of bad credit card debt. Nobody could tell me why. But they might only pay 2 cents on the dollar for those.
This is all happening between three and 12 months after you stopped paying on your debt.
Now collection agencies start calling you day and night. You can change your number.
Or if you answer the phone, record the conversation. Every state has different laws on how collection agencies are allowed to talk to you. You can google the laws in your state.
It’s very easy to catch them breaking the law. Then you owe nothing. So record the conversations and try to get them angry.
They will try to scare you. They use fake names like “Dick Brockman” and they say things like “In five days we have to go to court and seize all of your assets.” Again, in some states this is illegal to say. In some states it might not be.
One thing you always have the right to do: Say, “Show me the proof I owe this money.”
Since the collection agencies got your name from a hedge fund that might have bought only part of your debt from another hedge fund, who knows where that original proof is? It’s gone! They are required to show you proof if you ask.
How do I know this? Not because I was invested in the hedge funds. But because “Dick Brockman” called me in 1994.
I once owed on library fines from 1988. In 1994, collection agencies would call me and I would get scared. I eventually paid. What an idiot I was! Six years later! Library fines!
Local lawyers are a bit tougher. They can actually threaten you with court action and they might not be bluffing.
No problem. If they have proof (unlikely), then settle.
If you owed $1,000, offer them $100. Ten cents for every dollar. They might take it. It’s above average. Oh, and offer a payment plan. Maybe a little bit each month for two years.
They’ll take it because it’s like free money for them.
It’s a negotiation at this point. They are pretty happy to collect on anything so they will probably say yes.
Again, I know this because I know the hedge funds that are the ultimate beneficiaries (not the banks, or the credit card companies).
The investors in the hedge fund make money but mostly the hedge fund manager gets enormous fees off off the money they collect.
That’s where all the mansions come from while you were struggling to pay your mortgage.
I’m not saying they don’t deserve their mansions. They take risks buying all that defaulted debt.
But you don’t deserve to struggle with your mortgage either. Or worry about killing yourself or feeding your kids.
You deserve a good life without stress. You weren’t trying to be bad, but (as the banks already modeled) sometimes bad things happen to good people.
You signed a contract where everyone knew the risks. Even if you didn’t read all the fine print (who does?) and even if the banks are gleefully hoping you pay penalties, etc, the flip side is they know there is a reasonable chance you can default.

[theoldgit]

3 hours ago, Sooo Upto Me said:

No wrong, credit history clears after 8yrs in the UK.

 

Credit reference agencies hold information for seven years, debts become statute barred after six years.

 

equifax.com/how-long-does-information-stay-on-my-credit-report/