Trump considering how move of U.S. Embassy in Israel could affect Mideast peace

[webfact]

Trump considering how move of U.S. Embassy in Israel could affect Mideast peace

REUTERS

 

U.S. President Donald Trump arrives at Joint Base Andrews outside Washington, U.S., after a day trip to Lynchburg, Virginia, May 13, 2017. REUTERS/Yuri Gripas

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump is trying to determine how keeping his promise to move the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem could affect his hopes of brokering a peace deal between the Israelis and the Palestinians, his secretary of state said on Sunday.

 

Since taking office in January, Trump has shown signs of shelving his campaign pledge to move the embassy from Tel Aviv, while vowing to do what is necessary to clinch a Middle East peace agreement.

 

"The president is being very careful to understand how such a decision would impact a peace process," Secretary of State Rex Tillerson told NBC's "Meet the Press." He spoke just days before Trump starts a Middle East trip that includes meetings with Israeli and Palestinian leaders.

 

Israel regards Jerusalem as its eternal and indivisible capital and wants all foreign countries to base their embassies there. The relocation is strongly opposed by many U.S. allies as the Palestinians also claim the city as their capital.

 

Tillerson said Trump's decision would depend greatly on how it is seen by governments in the region, including "whether Israel views it as being helpful to a peace initiative or perhaps a distraction."

 

His comments drew a quick response from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

 

"Israel's position has been stated many times before to the American administration and the world," Netanyahu's office said in a statement.

 

"Moving the American embassy to Jerusalem will not harm the peace process, it will do the opposite. It will advance it by righting a historical wrong and by shattering the Palestinian fantasy that Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel."

 

(Reporting by David Morgan in Washington; Additional reporting by Ori Lewis in Jerusalem; Editing by Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-05-15

[darksidedog]

This is a very delicate matter that will involve very careful thought and serious consideration, that should be made for sound reasons, not political mileage, so I have to confess to being very worried, that Donald Trump will be the one making that decision.

[ilostmypassword]

He won't be the first president to reverse course on this particular promise. Clinton and Bush (George W.) did likewise.

[dexterm]

If Trump does move the embassy, it will be game over in every sense.

 

The game that Israel plays of pretending to seek genuine peace negotiations, while it does exactly the opposite ..grabs more land to create facts on the ground where a future Palestinian state could be, making a one state solution inevitable.

 

And the game that USA plays of pretending to be an honest peace broker, while blindly supporting Israel's crimes. 

 

No doubt Netanyahu will use the indivisibility of Jerusalem as a precondition for talks; that and/or Palestinians must recognize Israel as a Jewish State (legislation going through Knesset at the moment). So any peace process will be scuppered by Israel before it even begins.

Edited May 15, 2017 by dexterm

[Ahab]

How exactly do you go about having genuine peace negotiations when one side repeatedly calls for the total destruction of the other side and denies the very right for them to exist? Someone may be living in a fantasy world, but in this particular case it is not President Trump.

[dexterm]

21 minutes ago, Ahab said:

How exactly do you go about having genuine peace negotiations when one side repeatedly calls for the total destruction of the other side and denies the very right for them to exist? Someone may be living in a fantasy world, but in this particular case it is not President Trump.

"How Many Times Must the Palestinians Recognize Israel?
Netanyahu’s new 'Jewish state' mantra negates the fact that Palestinians recognized Israel more than twenty years ago. They’re still waiting for Israel to recognize Palestine."
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.579701

 

Yasser Arafat recognized Israel's right to exist as far back as 1988, and repeated it in writing in 1993 at the Oslo Accords. 

 

 

Here is Arafat's 1993 letter recognizing Israel...

"Mr. Prime Minister,
The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments: 
- The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.
- The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338. 
- The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations."

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html

 

The Palestinians are still waiting for Israel to reciprocate.

 

The PA is threatening to with draw this recognition if Trump moves the embassy to Jerusalem. Maybe that is exactly the game that Netanyahu is playing, so he can blame break down of peace talks on the Palestinians. 

 

Senior official threatens to withdraw Palestinian Authority's recognition of Israel if US embassy is moved to Jerusalem. 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/pa-threatens-withdraw-recognition-israel-170125130045438.html

Edited May 15, 2017 by dexterm

[Andaman Al]

4 minutes ago, Ahab said:

How exactly do you go about having genuine peace negotiations when one side repeatedly calls for the total destruction of the other side and denies the very right for them to exist?

Which side are you talking about?

Israels 'Minister for Justice Eyelet Shaked calls for the extermination of all Palestinians and their homes. Wow! so much beauty on the outside and so disgusting on the inside.

 

 

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Trump considering how move of U.S. Embassy in Israel could affect Mideast peace

The consideration needing to be given to this extremely simple dichotomy is straightforward and takes 10 seconds. The move of the US Embassy to Israel WOULD adversely affect peace in the Middle East and therefore it would account for the loss of many many lives, therefore do not do it. Simple really. Now I must check the newspaper jobs for any vacancies going as a World Leader it seems pretty simple to me.

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

If Trump does move the embassy, it will be game over in every sense.

 

The game that Israel plays of pretending to seek genuine peace negotiations, while it does exactly the opposite ..grabs more land to create facts on the ground where a future Palestinian state could be, making a one state solution inevitable.

 

And the game that USA plays of pretending to be an honest peace broker, while blindly supporting Israel's crimes. 

 

No doubt Netanyahu will use the indivisibility of Jerusalem as a precondition for talks; that and/or Palestinians must recognize Israel as a Jewish State (legislation going through Knesset at the moment). So any peace process will be scuppered by Israel before it even begins.

 

A post about Israel will not go unnoticed without the usual nonsense and rubbish comments from people who think they know everything about the middle east, never has anything good or positive to say, only vilifying and demonizing a country whom it's neighbors doesn't recognize it's rights to exist and have sworn to destroy BDS style.....  

[tonray]

36 minutes ago, ezzra said:

 

A post about Israel will not go unnoticed without the usual nonsense and rubbish comments from people who think they know everything about the middle east, never has anything good or positive to say, only vilifying and demonizing a country whom it's neighbors doesn't recognize it's rights to exist and have sworn to destroy BDS style.....  

Perhaps it starts with stealing their land and homes, and treating them as subhuman.

[kamahele]

Moving our embassy would be done only to satisfy the Christian evangelical voting block. Not Jewish voters, conservative Christian voters. It will make our lot in life as Americans more dangerous and life for Israelis and Palestinians more dangerous.

[Elfin]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

 

A post about Israel will not go unnoticed without the usual nonsense and rubbish comments from people who think they know everything about the middle east, never has anything good or positive to say, only vilifying and demonizing a country whom it's neighbors doesn't recognize it's rights to exist and have sworn to destroy BDS style.....  

Ezzra, Dexterm is writing the truth, but you cant handle the truth.  The Palestinian state will have East Jerusalem as its capital once a resolution occurs for a 2 state solution if that is ever possible.

Otherwise a one state solution will probably keep TA as its capital as an interim measure.  Can I ask why you do not live in your beloved Israel Ezzra?

BDS

[mtls2005]

This sounds like another job for Super Son-in-Law?

 

Although it seems like he's been keeping his "Clark Kent" profile since the silly pictures of him in Iraq?

[soalbundy]

''badly''

''Let's do it''

[Morch]

3 hours ago, dexterm said:

If Trump does move the embassy, it will be game over in every sense.

 

The game that Israel plays of pretending to seek genuine peace negotiations, while it does exactly the opposite ..grabs more land to create facts on the ground where a future Palestinian state could be, making a one state solution inevitable.

 

And the game that USA plays of pretending to be an honest peace broker, while blindly supporting Israel's crimes. 

 

No doubt Netanyahu will use the indivisibility of Jerusalem as a precondition for talks; that and/or Palestinians must recognize Israel as a Jewish State (legislation going through Knesset at the moment). So any peace process will be scuppered by Israel before it even begins.

 

Overdoing the drama spiel, again.

 

Even if Trump decides to move the US Embassy (which is yet to be seen), this could materialize in several ways, not all of which are as problematic as others. That's not to say that any are particularly helpful as far as promoting peace goes. For example, moving the US Embassy to a site which isn't in East Jerusalem, or moving the US Embassy while at the same time upgrading the status of the US diplomatic mission to the Palestinian Authority. 

 

Further, even if Trump decides to move the US Embassy, it won't happen overnight (meaning it could be delayed, watered down etc.), and of course, Trump's decisions aren't written in stone, and can be undone (even by Trump himself, as anyone following Trump can attest).

 

As for preconditions, both sides have them. Obviously, you will not address any such obstacles raised by the Palestinian side (or rather, sides), and focus on your version of Israel's supposed terms. But do go on about games of pretense.

 

[dexterm]

53 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Overdoing the drama spiel, again.

 

Even if Trump decides to move the US Embassy (which is yet to be seen), this could materialize in several ways, not all of which are as problematic as others. That's not to say that any are particularly helpful as far as promoting peace goes. For example, moving the US Embassy to a site which isn't in East Jerusalem, or moving the US Embassy while at the same time upgrading the status of the US diplomatic mission to the Palestinian Authority. 

 

Further, even if Trump decides to move the US Embassy, it won't happen overnight (meaning it could be delayed, watered down etc.), and of course, Trump's decisions aren't written in stone, and can be undone (even by Trump himself, as anyone following Trump can attest).

 

As for preconditions, both sides have them. Obviously, you will not address any such obstacles raised by the Palestinian side (or rather, sides), and focus on your version of Israel's supposed terms. But do go on about games of pretense.

 

>>But do go on about games of pretense.

 

In the OP Netanyahu states...
"shattering the Palestinian fantasy that Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel."

 

Although he has previously said several times...

"I am willing to begin negotiations immediately, without preconditions. Anytime, anywhere," Netanyahu said. 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/03/netanyahu-discuss-state-solution-160322143429143.html

...sounds like pretending to negotiate to me.

What possible good could come from the USA being the only country in the world with an embassy in illegally occupied Jerusalem? When every other country's is in Tel Aviv. It would isolate the US even more and expose their hypocrisy of supposedly being an even handed peace broker. 

 

Worse than that, it could needlessly cause a religious war with 1,000s killed. Crazy.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, dexterm said:

>>But do go on about games of pretense.

 

In the OP Netanyahu states...
"shattering the Palestinian fantasy that Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel."

 

Although he has previously said several times...

"I am willing to begin negotiations immediately, without preconditions. Anytime, anywhere," Netanyahu said. 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/03/netanyahu-discuss-state-solution-160322143429143.html

...sounds like pretending to negotiate to me.

What possible good could come from the USA being the only country in the world with an embassy in illegally occupied Jerusalem? When every other country's is in Tel Aviv. It would isolate the US even more and expose their hypocrisy of supposedly being an even handed peace broker. 

 

Worse than that, it could needlessly cause a religious war with 1,000s killed. Crazy.

 

The pretense here is that you do not understand how things work in the real world. Carry on.

 

As pointed out, you focus solely, and negatively, on supposed Israeli positions. No mention is made of problematic positions by the Palestinian side (or, again, sides), no scathing commentary when they issue unhelpful statements, present preconditions, or engage in counterproductive politics.

 

Netanyahu says a lot of things, sometimes contradicting other things said. In that, he is not much different than the other relevant leaders - Israeli, Palestinian, American, Arab or European. 

 

These contradictions arise from varying political constraints and compromises, and are also often related to the venue in which they are expressed. That's pretty much standard fare for any one following these issues without such bias exhibited in your posts.

 

In no post did I claim this idea is a good one, or that any good will come out of it. My previous comment had to do with your "view" that it amounts to "game over".

 

[jerojero]

If Trump is considering, expect a total cock up.

[CharlieK]

If the US do move the Embassy to Jerusalem, It would be the Western part of the city, which will always be part of Israel. If and when an Arab state exists in the West bank, The US could if they wish establish an Embassy in East Jerusalem for that country.

 

It would be the Arabs own stupidity if they protest this. This is Abbas's  last chance to make peace once and for all.   

[Morch]

1 minute ago, CharlieK said:

If the US do move the Embassy to Jerusalem, It would be the Western part of the city, which will always be part of Israel. If and when an Arab state exists in the West bank, The US could if they wish establish an Embassy in East Jerusalem for that country.

 

It would be the Arabs own stupidity if they protest this. This is Abbas's  last chance to make peace once and for all.   

 

There were several reports about optional sites for the US Embassy. Some were on the Western side, some on Eastern Jerusalem and some on the no-man's-land in between. As far as I  am aware, there wasn't any clear decision made on this. And no, having an the US Embassy in Israel relocated to Jerusalem does not specify anything with regard to future US Embassy in a future Palestinian State.

 

Not clear why you think it stupid to protests such a move, or rather, why support something clearly inflammatory. At this point, there is nothing to be gained by some action. As for the "last chance" bit, there isn't anything concrete on the table yet, so not a whole lot of chance to talk about. Moving the US Embassy is not required to have a peace deal, or even peace negotiations, so what would the Palestinian lose by protesting?

[CharlieK]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

There were several reports about optional sites for the US Embassy. Some were on the Western side, some on Eastern Jerusalem and some on the no-man's-land in between. As far as I  am aware, there wasn't any clear decision made on this. And no, having an the US Embassy in Israel relocated to Jerusalem does not specify anything with regard to future US Embassy in a future Palestinian State.

 

Not clear why you think it stupid to protests such a move, or rather, why support something clearly inflammatory. At this point, there is nothing to be gained by some action. As for the "last chance" bit, there isn't anything concrete on the table yet, so not a whole lot of chance to talk about. Moving the US Embassy is not required to have a peace deal, or even peace negotiations, so what would the Palestinian lose by protesting?

It would be proof that they (Arabs) are not for peace. Specified or not there would be nothing stopping the US doing that if it wanted to. "Quid pro quo" In short while everyone says this is an inflammatory move I suggest it has the potential of being the opposite. Just because no one has put such an idea forward doesn't mean it isn't possible to happen.

 

I am sure Abbas would be just as happy to have a US embassy in a Palestinian state as Netanyahu wants the US embassy in West Jerusalem. 

 

  

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, CharlieK said:

It would be proof that they (Arabs) are not for peace. Specified or not there would be nothing stopping the US doing that if it wanted to. "Quid pro quo" In short while everyone says this is an inflammatory move I suggest it has the potential of being the opposite. Just because no one has put such an idea forward doesn't mean it isn't possible to happen.

 

I am sure Abbas would be just as happy to have a US embassy in a Palestinian state as Netanyahu wants the US embassy in West Jerusalem. 

 

  

 

How would it "prove" anything? Objecting to moves which undermine the position is expected. Israel does the same.

 

If Trump (not the US, the US policy is something different) would insist, then there could be a relocation of the Embassy, at least temporarily. Other than showing that POTUS can have his way, how would that be constructive to peace efforts, though? You suggest that it "has the potential of being the opposite", and yet do not provide any coherent explanation as to how.

 

The US does not even recognize Palestine as a state, never mind having an Embassy. It also does not recognize East Jerusalem as the capital of such a state, so what are you on about?

 

Judging from comments of Israeli politicians, they wouldn't go for a US Embassy relocation, if it was tied with a US recognition of Palestinian statehood or a making unilateral decisions about Jerusalem's integrity.

[tonbridgebrit]

56 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

How would it "prove" anything? Objecting to moves which undermine the position is expected. Israel does the same.

 

If Trump (not the US, the US policy is something different) would insist, then there could be a relocation of the Embassy, at least temporarily. Other than showing that POTUS can have his way, how would that be constructive to peace efforts, though? You suggest that it "has the potential of being the opposite", and yet do not provide any coherent explanation as to how.

 

The US does not even recognize Palestine as a state, never mind having an Embassy. It also does not recognize East Jerusalem as the capital of such a state, so what are you on about?

 

Judging from comments of Israeli politicians, they wouldn't go for a US Embassy relocation, if it was tied with a US recognition of Palestinian statehood or a making unilateral decisions about Jerusalem's integrity.

Trump had a few good ideas, one of them being that Washington would stop backing the rebels in Syria.  But this idea, moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem is certainly not a good idea. It will simply reduce whatever chances of peace in the Middle East.

Apart from antagonising Muslims, what else will it do ?

And Morch, what are you actually doing ?  Before Trump became President, a load of Hillary supporters (including you) were banging the drum for Washington's foreign policy. Trump gets elected, and, oh look, most of the Hillary supporters were no longer banging that drum. Yeah, Trump does similar policies to Hillary (hit the Muslims, and hit them hard) but,  her supporters don't want to cheer on Trump.

As for the Trump supporters, most of them are quite nowadays. They feel that Trump is simply not dong what he said he would do.

So, basically, far fewer people are banging the drum for Washington's foreign policy nowadays. Why bang that drum ?

 

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Trump had a few good ideas, one of them being that Washington would stop backing the rebels in Syria.  But this idea, moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem is certainly not a good idea. It will simply reduce whatever chances of peace in the Middle East.

Apart from antagonising Muslims, what else will it do ?

And Morch, what are you actually doing ?  Before Trump became President, a load of Hillary supporters (including you) were banging the drum for Washington's foreign policy. Trump gets elected, and, oh look, most of the Hillary supporters were no longer banging that drum. Yeah, Trump does similar policies to Hillary (hit the Muslims, and hit them hard) but,  her supporters don't want to cheer on Trump.

As for the Trump supporters, most of them are quite nowadays. They feel that Trump is simply not dong what he said he would do.

So, basically, far fewer people are banging the drum for Washington's foreign policy nowadays. Why bang that drum ?

 

 

Yeah, well, don't let facts stand in the way of a bogus argument - more a believer in the lesser of two evils, not on the HRC choir. Nor was I "banging the drum" for "Washington's foreign policy" - rather critical of some aspects. Any other nonsense you need cleared up?

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

The US is a good enough ally of Israel without moving the embassy. I see no upsides to the idea.

 

 

[tonbridgebrit]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The US is a good enough ally of Israel without moving the embassy. I see no upsides to the idea.

 

 

Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is all about insulting and offending the Muslims.  Antagonising them. Trump knows that a fair number of people want this to happen. That's why he's doing it.

A dangerous and reckless move. Unfortunately, lot's of people want to see a more aggressive and less friendly attitude towards Islam. Le's be honest, lots of Hillary supporters would be cheering this on if Hillary was POTUS.

Edited May 16, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[soalbundy]

I wonder how he considers, hmmm, what would batman do in a situation like this.

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is all about insulting and offending the Muslims.  Antagonising them. Trump knows that a fair number of people want this to happen. That's why he's doing it.

A dangerous and reckless move. Unfortunately, lot's of people want to see a more aggressive and less friendly attitude towards Islam. Le's be honest, lots of Hillary supporters would be cheering this on if Hillary was POTUS.

 

You have no idea what Trump knows or why he does specific things. You make guesses, like most of us and the rest of the World. Trump just signed a huge arms deal with SA. Guess that was meant to antagonize Muslims too. The OP is about a spat between his team and the Israelis. Guess that was meant to antagonize Muslims too.

 

Lets be honest, you're making bogus half-cooked arguments. Oh, and the US elections are over.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Morch

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I wonder how he considers, hmmm, what would batman do in a situation like this.

 

And if it works out, Batman is a very nice guy. Goes south, and Batman is overrated.

[Jingthing]

Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is all about insulting and offending the Muslims.  Antagonising them. Trump knows that a fair number of people want this to happen. That's why he's doing it.

A dangerous and reckless move. Unfortunately, lot's of people want to see a more aggressive and less friendly attitude towards Islam. Le's be honest, lots of Hillary supporters would be cheering this on if Hillary was POTUS.

He's trolling as usual. All bluster and threats with very little follow-up. Con man president.

[Credo]

For someone who has a slogan of "America First", this is a stupid move.   It will cost a lot of money and will only anger Muslims.   It will do nothing positive for America.