Manning leaves U.S. prison 7 years after giving secrets to WikiLeaks

[jenifer d]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I am not sure that we should use the Thai government as the benchmark for ethical domestic policy on any front.

I don't claim to have any expert knowledge of gender assignment issues, but I think that calling it a lifestyle choice is regarded, in these more enlightened days, to be ingorant.

exactly!!!

it is NOT a lifestyle, and transgender is CERTAINLY not a choice;

nobody would willfully choose something that would subject them to such ignorance, hatred,

bias and outright violence as is even usually seen on this forum towards katoey 

(and, reliably, sadly, is being expressed by many in this thread, right on schedule)

[jenifer d]

2 hours ago, sanukjim said:

No distinction,They are both traders.They should be in prison for life or as in war time ,shoot them.

neither is a TRADER, neither are they TRAITORS-

but they ARE certainly TRUE patriots and HEROS for the WORLD,

exposing the criminal actions of the US gov't and military and their global spy operations

[jenifer d]

10 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

What I find fascinating is that to many on the right Edward Snowden is a hero.  But Chelsea Manning is a traitor.  Can someone please explain to me the distinction?

a LOT of it, unfortunately, has to do with only two things:

the facts that

1) Manning was in the military (and people worship the military, right or wrong)

2)Chelsea Manning is transgender

 

to ME, they are BOTH true heroes...

[soalbundy]

Obviously not manning up

[Fulwell53]

10 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

Who cares?  he/she is lucky Obama thinks treason is ok

Treason????

Him and snowden are guilty of nothing more than showing up the american military and security agencies as being duplicitous, non transparent, overly intrusive etc etc.

I suppose obama could have done a donald when he was in power and sacked those investigating ...but he isnt a red necked 2 faced coward.

[Fulwell53]

11 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

neither is a TRADER, neither are they TRAITORS-

but they ARE certainly TRUE patriots and HEROS for the WORLD,

exposing the criminal actions of the US gov't and military and their global spy operations

Great post

[jenifer d]

3 hours ago, jesimps said:

Both are traitors and deserve to go down for a FULL life term. Treachery is the worst crime of all, possibly causing the deaths of many of your own citizens and allies. 

no, ignorance and apathy  towards immoral wrongs and suppression of truth

is the worst crime of all...

anybody who condones the crimes that Manning and Snowden (and Assange)

have exposed is a real traitor, and deserves to die just like the victims of the immorality exposed do...

[Fulwell53]

2 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

Ah it's ok to wear the uniform, sign the declaration of loyalty and secretly give out information which puts your comrades at risk?  sent to jail he/she then goes on hunger strike and get's free 'gender reassignment' and is now complaining of 'routinely having to endure haircuts' whilst in jail

 

you could not make it up

He / she didnt put anyone at risk

No info was released that showed positions, deployment , numbers or weaponry.

IIt showed abuses of human rights and military incompetency.

People have been caught with their pants down and they dont like it.

 

[Fulwell53]

2 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

Ah it's ok to wear the uniform, sign the declaration of loyalty and secretly give out information which puts your comrades at risk?  sent to jail he/she then goes on hunger strike and get's free 'gender reassignment' and is now complaining of 'routinely having to endure haircuts' whilst in jail

 

you could not make it up

It appears you could

[Fulwell53]

2 hours ago, sanukjim said:

No distinction,They are both traders.They should be in prison for life or as in war time ,shoot them.

They should be taken to florida and thrown in the wetlands to be eaten by alleegaders .

I was only talking about this in a restaurant the other day and mentioned it to my wader.

[soalbundy]

27 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

transgender is NOT a lifestyle, and certainly is NOT a choice;

hormones are cheap, and the gov't did NOT pay for any operations,

as a matter of fact just the opposite; they put her into solitary confinement...

and solitary confinement is tantamount to torture, hardly a happy lifestyle

There is a lot of it about these days,even small kids are being taken to specialists to ascertain whether or not...... seems a little weird to me but it's the zeitgeist we live in, 7 year old in handcuffs, boys barely teens raping girls / boys, children being bombed in far away places, we don't all have to eat what is served up from the kitchen.

[Fulwell53]

3 hours ago, jesimps said:

Both are traitors and deserve to go down for a FULL life term. Treachery is the worst crime of all, possibly causing the deaths of many of your own citizens and allies. 

Very possibly not causing anything but embarassment in the upper echelons of the military and the spying classes.

[petesc55]

I'll hope he/she prances into obscurity, but I doubt that will happen.

 

[Jingthing]

There is a lot of it about these days,even small kids are being taken to specialists to ascertain whether or not...... seems a little weird to me but it's the zeitgeist we live in, 7 year old in handcuffs, boys barely teens raping girls / boys, children being bombed in far away places, we don't all have to eat what is served up from the kitchen.

Kids today!
A sentiment as old as humanity ...

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I am not sure that we should use the Thai government as the benchmark for ethical domestic policy on any front.

I don't claim to have any expert knowledge of gender assignment issues, but I think that calling it a lifestyle choice is regarded, in these more enlightened days, to be ingorant.

Call me ignorant then, but explain why hardworking taxpayers should have to pay for a man that wants to become a woman to have surgery and drugs etc?

My government can't afford to give pensioners enough money to live on, so why should they go into debt to pay for gender reassignment?

I'm with Thailand on this one.

[thaibeachlovers]

57 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

There is a lot of it about these days,even small kids are being taken to specialists to ascertain whether or not...... seems a little weird to me but it's the zeitgeist we live in, 7 year old in handcuffs, boys barely teens raping girls / boys, children being bombed in far away places, we don't all have to eat what is served up from the kitchen.

wrong quote

Edited May 18, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

transgender is NOT a lifestyle, and certainly is NOT a choice;

hormones are cheap, and the gov't did NOT pay for any operations,

as a matter of fact just the opposite; they put her into solitary confinement...

and solitary confinement is tantamount to torture, hardly a happy lifestyle

We'll have to agree to disagree then. Of course it's a choice to use hormones or not.

I'm fat, and I want to get slim. Can I expect the government to pay for liposuction because it's interfering with my lifestyle?

I have no problem with her wanting to become a "real" woman, but I do object to other people having to pay the medical bills. Life is unfair- deal with it.

 

Leaving aside the wrongly convicted, I want criminals to suffer in jail. Not talking about physical torture, but depriving all prisoners of contact with other people would seem reasonable for punishing bad people. The worst criminals of course. Minor offenders should never be in jail in the first place.

[sandrabbit]

In principle I disagree with what Manning did but after seeing the gun camera footage from an Apache helicopter in Iraq killing civilians including members of the press I think he/she did the right thing. If the US wants to stand up as a moral authority it has to acknowledge the 'mistakes' its military has made. 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

Ah it's ok to wear the uniform, sign the declaration of loyalty and secretly give out information which puts your comrades at risk?  sent to jail he/she then goes on hunger strike and get's free 'gender reassignment' and is now complaining of 'routinely having to endure haircuts' whilst in jail

 

you could not make it up

That's how soldiers end up committing attrocities, because good soldiers are afraid to expose the crimes.

I served and I know what a beast the military is. I respect them for standing up to do the right thing. 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

In principle I disagree with what Manning did but after seeing the gun camera footage from an Apache helicopter in Iraq killing civilians including members of the press I think he/she did the right thing. If the US wants to stand up as a moral authority it has to acknowledge the 'mistakes' its military has made. 

The military will never willingly acknowledge mistakes. It has to be dragged kicking and screaming.

I served and I know the mentality. One of the reasons I resigned early.

[grumbleweed]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

you should study current science, and actual reality, as opposed to biased and prejudiced personal opinions; but then again, maybe you don't have sufficient brain cells to understand this

and perhaps you should take a course in literacy

Try re-reading my post and you'll see we are in agreement

I'm suggesting that those who consider sexual and gender orientation to be a personal choice are retarded. As far as this issue is concerned, you will not find a more unbiased person

BTW, I have a BSc (2011) is that current enough for you?

[sandrabbit]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The military will never willingly acknowledge mistakes. It has to be dragged kicking and screaming.

I served and I know the mentality. One of the reasons I resigned early.

The other thing that came out from the videos released was how good the US military's gun cameras are, so how good are their surveillance cameras?. I don't know what service you were involved in but some of the videos released by Manning were incredible to me, I couldn't believe the capabilities or how accurate the AC130 Spectre aircraft was even in the dark.

[Kabula]

I'm really sick and tired of all these reality, freak shows.

 

Many confusing printed alleged facts that are spun with words taken out of context with everyone angry over their own confused, perception based on bull shit.

 

He is probably more miserable now and the older he gets the more freakish he will look.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2017 by Kabula

[hathairat2711]

The movie starring Benedict Cumberbatch was only one side of the story..

[elgordo38]

11 hours ago, Credo said:

Well, there is now a vacant cell at the prison and there are a lot of candidates in Washington who will soon be eligible to occupy it.   

There you go again the Trumpeteers were having a field day and then you had to mention the above. Party pooper. 

[Scott]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The taxpayer should NEVER be required to pay for personal lifestyle choices. Can anyone on here imagine the Thai government paying for lady boy's operations?

I don't think she should have been jailed as long as she was, but they should not have paid for the hormones. Regardless of the wrongness, IMO, of the conviction, prison is for punishment, not a happy lifestyle.

That choice was not necessarily a choice.   The decision was made with gov't medical personnel.  

 

The problem with incarceration is that you remove a lot of the ability for people to make choices.   The gov't when it incarcerates people has a responsibility to care for inmates.  

 

How much and how extensive is up for discussion, but the fact remains that medical services are provided for inmates.  

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, grumbleweed said:

and perhaps you should take a course in literacy

Try re-reading my post and you'll see we are in agreement

I'm suggesting that those who consider sexual and gender orientation to be a personal choice are retarded. As far as this issue is concerned, you will not find a more unbiased person

BTW, I have a BSc (2011) is that current enough for you?

I am well aware that sexual and gender orientation is hard wired in in the womb.

I'm not talking about that. 

 

[soalbundy]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Kids today!
A sentiment as old as humanity ...

I am open to that, the world has always shown its evil side and its confused side. It seems to me that there are more transgender issues today than there used to be, chemical pollution ? but perhaps we are just hearing more about it due to improved media coverage. It does seem to be trendy though, bringing up children to be 'gender neutral' whatever that means, and dragging children to specialists because a small boy wants to be a princess for a time. When my son was 4 he decided to wear a skirt for a couple of days,something that his Thai grandmother and my wife found amusing, i was horrified and put a stop to it but spoke to him asking why, turns out that he was trying to identify with his then 15 year old step sister who he adored and respected. I called her in for support and she explained to him that she loved him as he was, as a boy, after that the skirt phase disappeared and he went back to how he really was, smashing his toy trucks together. 

[grumbleweed]

http://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1440,w_2560,x_0,y_0/c_limit,w_1480/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1495148408/170518-allen-chelsea-manning-tease_jyw3or

I can certainly see how her having long hair would pose a security risk.

And these people have nuclear weapons

Edited May 19, 2017 by grumbleweed

[LannaGuy]

12 hours ago, Fulwell53 said:

It appears you could

oh Retired Army Brig. Gen. Robert A. Carr, the government’s first witness in the sentencing phase of Pfc. Bradley Manning’s court-martial, testified that Manning’s disclosures to WikiLeaks endangered U.S. ground troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

Presumably you are not a General nor are privy to the intelligence that this General talks to so be careful what conclusions you jump to.

 

also: 

 

Michael Kozak, a former ambassador to Belarus, told the court on the third day of Manning's sentencing hearing that his office was involved at least twice with foreign informants who had to be moved because there was "very genuine concern" they would be killed by "non-state actors" because of the leaks.

 

Kozak said the WikiLeaks publication had a "chilling effect" on people who were working to "promote the advancement of human rights" in their country.

 

Many more witnesses, much more info but DYOR

Edited May 19, 2017 by LannaGuy