Do you think Trump will be impeached or forced to resign?

[mrdome]

As the latest news from Zimbabwe shows, the mighty with the "trumped-up" egos do get what they deserve in the end. The "fake 45th presidency" will end eventually (and hopefully, most of us can all laugh about it over a beer).

[MrPatrickThai]

3 hours ago, mrdome said:

As the latest news from Zimbabwe shows, the mighty with the "trumped-up" egos do get what they deserve in the end. The "fake 45th presidency" will end eventually (and hopefully, most of us can all laugh about it over a beer).

This is just your opinion and totally off-topic.

How is he fake, the people VOTED for him!

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by MrPatrickThai

[Srikcir]

11 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

Unless the generals stage a coup in which case they then have all authority.  Anatoly Dobrynin, the Soviet ambassador to Washington during the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962, wrote in his memoirs that Robert Kennedy met with him secretly at the time and told him that President Kennedy did not want to start a war with Cuba, but that he might not be able to control the US military who could stage a coup and then invade Cuba.

 

So, it can happen here.  Indeed, there is a basis for believing that the assassination in 1963 was a coup d'etat.

 

My guess is that if Trump were to order a nuclear attack, all bets would be off.  There is no way to predict what the military would actually do.  They probably don't know themselves, despite all their reams of procedure.

Appreciate your speculation but hopefully it won't be tested. But I can't deny the possibility no matter how remote that some American military officers might commit treason in the face of denying a civilian command. With regard to what the Russians say about alleged US secret conversations, every action the Russian government takes is self-promoting and take down of American icons would serve its purposes.

 

Just to add a note: an unwise decision made by the POTUS is not necessarily the same as an illegal decision, ie., in violation to the Constitution and existing laws. There is otherwise nothing in the Constitution that prevents the POTUS from commanding the armed forces to pursue a political strategy.

[boomerangutang]

20 hours ago, heybruce said:

I don't know what the officers responsible for delivering the launch order would do; I suspect they don't know either.  It depends on the circumstances.  However they should not be put in this position.

Trump is unlikely to order a nuclear attack on China (his election kitsch and daughter's fashion stuff is manufactured there) or Russia (he still hopes to make money laundering oligarch's money from Russia).  However what if Trump, who lacks the patience or intelligence for diplomacy, decides that tensions with North Korea or Iran are best handled with a pre-emptive nuclear strike?  Anyone of any intelligence knows that would be a bad idea, but would it be a clear-cut illegal order?

Barring evidence of an imminent threat to the US I think the military officers would disobey such an order, but I'm not sure.  However forcing them to disobey would play hell on the US tradition and constitutional requirement that the military be subservient to the President, and also play hell with our nuclear deterrent and cause friends and opponents around the world to wonder who is in charge of the US. 

For this and many other reasons we need a responsible, knowledgeable, competent president.  It has been clear since he first announced his candidacy that Trump doesn't have any of these qualities; he's a dim-witted entertainer who throws tantrums when he doesn't like the reviews he's getting.  We need to get him out of office.

I doubt Trump would order a pre-emptive nuke strike.

But he's quite likely of ordering a strike with non-nuke weapons, which he's already done with a MOAB in the Mid-East (tho some would say it was part of an on-going war).

 

 

 

 

[CaptHaddock]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Appreciate your speculation but hopefully it won't be tested. But I can't deny the possibility no matter how remote that some American military officers might commit treason in the face of denying a civilian command. With regard to what the Russians say about alleged US secret conversations, every action the Russian government takes is self-promoting and take down of American icons would serve its purposes.

 

Just to add a note: an unwise decision made by the POTUS is not necessarily the same as an illegal decision, ie., in violation to the Constitution and existing laws. There is otherwise nothing in the Constitution that prevents the POTUS from commanding the armed forces to pursue a political strategy.

The reason that I find it plausible that Kennedy had rational fears of a military coup at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis is not because of Dobrynin's statement, but because we know from the tapes of the deliberations of JFK's Executive Group that all the Joint Chiefs, Cabinet members, and Johnson were in favor of a US invasion of Cuba and were actually preparing for it.  Curtis LeMay's Strategic Air Command deliberately overflew their checkpoints around the Soviet Union at the time.  The CIA sent in sabotage teams during the Crisis against the orders of Kennedy.  And during the confrontation between the US Navy ships turning back Soviet ships on the high seas Kennedy insisted on being patched directly into the fleet commander over the objections of Navy brass.  So, Kennedy was certainly acting like a man who didn't trust his own military.  Dobrynin's account merely shows RFK expressing the Kennedys' fears of the military in a believable way.

 

After the Crisis subsided the Joint Chiefs were furious with Kennedy for not invading claiming to Kennedy's face that it was the biggest defeat in US history.  And the next year Kennedy was murdered by a plot with government involvement.

 

As for what happens if Trump decides to push the button, all bets are off.  No one knows.  The fact that there are procedures means nothing.

 

 

[Srikcir]

28 minutes ago, CaptHaddock said:

So, Kennedy was certainly acting like a man who didn't trust his own military. 

He was acting like the Commander-in-Chief that he was, didn't let the military intimidate him and backed the military down. Clearly a win for the US Constitution.

Whether Trump has the same fortitude is questionable as he surrounds himself with "his" generals and favors biased alt. right news media rather than US intelligence agencies for strategic information.

[Jingthing]

Feeling nostalgic?

 

 

[Meljames]

How long til the Harvey Weistein/Roy Moore curse catches up with Trump?

Edited November 16, 2017 by Meljames

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Meljames said:

How long til the Harvey Weistein/Roy Moore curse catches up with Trump?

I don't think it will. The timing is off. The dirt was revealed and he somehow managed to get elected. 

If the Weinstein wave had happened BEFORE the election,  it would have been different. Too bad it wasn't!

Edited November 16, 2017 by Jingthing

[Srikcir]

48 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't think it will. The timing is off. The dirt was revealed and he somehow managed to get elected. 

If the Weinstein wave had happened BEFORE the election,  it would have been different. Too bad it wasn't!

But then there is this:

A defamation lawsuit filed by Summer Zervos in January in the New York State Supreme Court.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/15/politics/trump-campaign-subpoena-sexual-assault-allegations/index.html

 

[mrdome]

13 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

This is just your opinion and totally off-topic.

How is he fake, the people VOTED for him!

 

Not off topic as impeachment is about his removal as president of the US.

 

I owe you an answer re. calling his presidency "fake". "Fake" as in "fake news", as in untrue and not trustworthy. Here it is:

 

 

He was never qualified for the job to begin with plus he isn't even trying to do the job right.

He came in knowing diddly squat and then refused to be educated.

He tweets policy (with a chance of tweeting us all into a nuclear war with N. Korea).

He contradicts his own ministers, creating embarrassing situations.

He lies all the time and flip flops on issues (latest big one: China).

He's mentally unfit for the job, acts on impulse and is a security risk due to his weaknesses of needing to be praised to the point where other countries now influence his actions.

 

... I could go on but it's enough for now.

[ballpoint]

On ‎15‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 5:01 AM, Jingthing said:

What happens when you replace the president with a clown?

In the case of this president, either no one would notice, or it would be an improvement.  Nothing to lose.  Bring in Krusty.  Sideshow Bob for AG.

[Jingthing]

Possibly the only actually GREAT thing about the tragic election of the clown stain to potus -- STEPHEN COLBERT!

 

Article is definitely worth a read. The most sobering part which I definitely agree with is about the long term negative impact of trump on generations of American society. Even if we could make the clown stain go away today ... it's too late to prevent that.

 

Quote

Stephen Colbert Makes America Great

Trump’s election upended every American institution—including late-night comedy, where wacky just no longer cuts it. Stephen Colbert is proving that a late-night host’s new responsibility is to do what a president used to do: steady a reeling nation. (And then do the wacky.)

https://www.gq.com/story/stephen-colbert-makes-america-great

[lannarebirth]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Feeling nostalgic?

 

 

Yes, nostalgic for Nixon!  For all his faults, and they were many, no president since (in fact, all combined) has made as many important initiatives into law as Nixon and his predecessors.

 

https://listverse.com/2013/11/08/10-reasons-richard-nixon-was-secretly-an-amazing-president/

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Yes, nostalgic for Nixon!  For all his faults, and they were many, no president since (in fact, all combined) has made as many important initiatives into law as Nixon and his predecessors.

 

https://listverse.com/2013/11/08/10-reasons-richard-nixon-was-secretly-an-amazing-president/

The value of Trump's achievement list will skyrocket if he get's these shoplifters off the hook.

 

You gotta love a POTUS who goes all the way to China and knows his priorities.

[Jingthing]

Another hopeful sign (the first one being the recent election)?

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/360644-focus-group-nc-female-trump-voters-now-say-theyre-embarrassed-by-him

Quote

 

Focus group: NC female Trump voters say they're 'embarrassed' by him

 

North Carolina women in a focus group who voted for President Trump in 2016 now say they are “embarrassed” by his behavior, according to a new study by Emory University.

Eleven out of 12 members of the focus group, which included five independents, four Republicans and three Democrats, criticized Trump on Wednesday night, with some describing him as “incompetent," "childlike," "a loose cannon" and "ignorant,” according to the Washington Post.

 

 

[Skywalker69]

House Passes Tax Bill in Major Step Toward Overhaul

 

WASHINGTON — The House passed a sweeping rewrite of the tax code on Thursday, taking a significant leap forward as Republicans seek to enact $1.5 trillion in tax cuts for businesses and individuals and deliver the first major legislative achievement of President Trump’s tenure.

 

The House voted to 227 to 205 to approve the bill, shortly after Mr. Trump came to Capitol Hill to address House Republicans.

Thirteen Republicans voted against the bill, and zero Democrats voted for it. The Republicans who voted no were from New York, New Jersey, California and North Carolina.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/us/politics/house-tax-overhaul-bill.html?emc=edit_na_20171116&nl=breaking-news&nlid=76310506&ref=headline

[bendejo]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Another hopeful sign (the first one being the recent election)?

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/360644-focus-group-nc-female-trump-voters-now-say-theyre-embarrassed-by-him

 

 

They saw no indication of anything of that sort before the election?

I couldn't find a female version of this pic.

 

 

My contention more with the people who voted for this guy than with Cheeto himself.

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by bendejo

[Basil B]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-norfolk-42025898/donald-trump-spitting-image-puppet-unveiled

Edited November 17, 2017 by Basil B

[EvenSteven]

On 11/16/2017 at 11:17 AM, lannarebirth said:

Yes, nostalgic for Nixon!  For all his faults, and they were many, no president since (in fact, all combined) has made as many important initiatives into law as Nixon and his predecessors.

 

https://listverse.com/2013/11/08/10-reasons-richard-nixon-was-secretly-an-amazing-president/

Vietnam!

[EvenSteven]

Mueller has uncovered material that links the Trump crime syndicate to laundering dirty Russian money through their property holdings in Panama.  Mauricio Ceballos, a former prosecutor in Panama who investigated Trump’s business associates for financial crimes, called the Trump Ocean Club “a vehicle for money laundering.”

 

https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/trump-ocean-club-connected-drug-cartels-and-russian-mafia-panama-city

 

 

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply removed. 

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, EvenSteven said:

Mueller has uncovered material that links the Trump crime syndicate to laundering dirty Russian money through their property holdings in Panama.  Mauricio Ceballos, a former prosecutor in Panama who investigated Trump’s business associates for financial crimes, called the Trump Ocean Club “a vehicle for money laundering.”

 

https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/trump-ocean-club-connected-drug-cartels-and-russian-mafia-panama-city

 

 

At the rate that multiple possible criminal money laundering is uncovered within the Trump real estate empire, it won't be a congressional impeachment that removes Trump from office but rather prosecution by state attorney generals. No presidential pardons available.

[mogandave]

Mueller has uncovered material that links the Trump crime syndicate to laundering dirty Russian money through their property holdings in Panama.  Mauricio Ceballos, a former prosecutor in Panama who investigated Trump’s business associates for financial crimes, called the Trump Ocean Club “a vehicle for money laundering.”
 
https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/trump-ocean-club-connected-drug-cartels-and-russian-mafia-panama-city
 
 

What I do not understand, is why with all the evidence of criminal activity tRump has been directly involved in, what does it need to be linked to the Russians? I am I litter tired of Mueller and the whole kid-glove handling.

Impeach 45 today!

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

What I do not understand, is why with all the evidence of criminal activity tRump has been directly involved in, what does it need to be linked to the Russians? I am I litter tired of Mueller and the whole kid-glove handling.

Impeach 45 today!

 

I understand your sentiments, but be content in the knowledge that Mueller does not just intend to impeach 45, he intends to bury him and his crooked band of kids. He will take a little time to get it all water tight. There could be jail sentences of 15 years plus thrown around here. Trumps only hope is to speed up the replacement of Judge appointments and hope him and the 3 little piggies end up in front of a sympathetic crooked Judge who owes Trump.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Andaman Al

[Meljames]

If you're a liberal waiting for a change of POTUS, you're grasping at straws. The next 2 people in line are more skilled  politically with an equally insidious agenda. Very likely you'll be worse off than you  are now.

 

Plenty of indicators to show that the Trump clan will be brought down although it's also  likely  the GOP can stretch out the legalities so Trump can ride out his term.  Holding your breath for any kind of rapid change in Washington politics is never a good approach anyways.

[Jingthing]

41 minutes ago, Meljames said:

If you're a liberal waiting for a change of POTUS, you're grasping at straws. The next 2 people in line are more skilled  politically with an equally insidious agenda. Very likely you'll be worse off than you  are now.

 

Plenty of indicators to show that the Trump clan will be brought down although it's also  likely  the GOP can stretch out the legalities so Trump can ride out his term.  Holding your breath for any kind of rapid change in Washington politics is never a good approach anyways.

Yes Pence is a hard core traditional right wing extremist, but I question your assertion that he's all that skilled. It's well known he didn't want to run for Governor of Indiana again because he was expected to lose. He's got the charisma of a grapefruit. I don't think he's in step with the country, and if the democrats can take the house in 18, he'll be castrated anyway. 

 

It could be a big reason Pence was picked in the first place was impeachment insurance. Maybe call his bluff?  Fighting Pence would be back to NORMALITY anyway. We don't need any more bizarre twitter freaks like trump ever again. 

 

Paul Ryan, on the other hand, is a scarier force. To get there, Pence would have to go down too. I don't see that happening. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Jingthing

[Thakkar]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes Pence is a hard core traditional right wing extremist, but I question your assertion that he's all that skilled. It's well known he didn't want to run for Governor of Indiana again because he was expected to lose. He's got the charisma of a grapefruit. I don't think he's in step with the country, and if the democrats can take the house in 18, he'll be castrated anyway. 

 

It could be a big reason Pence was picked in the first place was impeachment insurance. Maybe call his bluff?  Fighting Pence would be back to NORMALITY anyway. We don't need any more bizarre twitter freaks like trump ever again. 

 

Paul Ryan, on the other hand, is a scarier force. To get there, Pence would have to go down too. I don't see that happening. 

Have you read about his weird relationship with his wife? You don’t think he’s castrated already??

 

But seriously, I’m coming ‘round to your view on a Pence Presidency. There’s not enough on him for impeachment. And he has little hope of getting elected at the end of his short term. And he won’t be able to get much of his Koch agenda through as he will be quite hobbled.

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, Meljames said:

If you're a liberal waiting for a change of POTUS, you're grasping at straws. The next 2 people in line are more skilled  politically with an equally insidious agenda. Very likely you'll be worse off than you  are now.

 

Plenty of indicators to show that the Trump clan will be brought down although it's also  likely  the GOP can stretch out the legalities so Trump can ride out his term.  Holding your breath for any kind of rapid change in Washington politics is never a good approach anyways.

What about if you're a Republican waiting for a change of POTUS, as many many are? This situation has gone way past party politics, it should almost be declared a national emergency.  With two insidious characters at least take the one that would not be an embarrassment on the world stage. The damage internally is already enough without making it a global circus. Pence is bearable in that he would face the voters at the next election. Trump is simply abhorrent in every respect.

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

What about if you're a Republican waiting for a change of POTUS, as many many are? This situation has gone way past party politics, it should almost be declared a national emergency.  With two insidious characters at least take the one that would not be an embarrassment on the world stage. The damage internally is already enough without making it a global circus. Pence is bearable in that he would face the voters at the next election. Trump is simply abhorrent in every respect.

Agreed.  I have a well educated friend who is such a hard-core Republican he liked George W. Bush.  In the past I couldn't discuss politics with him.  I can now; he really hates Trump.