Trump says U.S. to withdraw from Paris climate accord

[sandrabbit]

4 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

The scientific research toward producing green energy, developing varieties of coral that can thrive in warm water, exploiting the soil and hybridizing food crops that can grow with less water will continue apace.

Most corals thrive in warm water they just don't like sudden temperature change and if you hadn't noticed it seems there are far more cold water coral growths than warm water but they are being destroyed by bottom dragging fishing nets and even after they have been discovered the fishermen still destroy them. As they were talking about on cnn earlier coal power generation is going to disappear just by fracking for gas in the US alone, the cost of flue gas de sulphurising the exhaust gases of a coal power station will pay for a gas power station alone.

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, DogNo1 said:

 Trump seems to instinctively understand that good jobs promote self-respect and that even people who can't adapt to the requirements of new technical jobs need good jobs and self-respect

So why hasn't Trump and Ivanka brought all of the manufacturing in his family businesses back from China, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam etc to the USA? He says the that Paris agreement was bad for the American taxpayer, maybe it wouldn't be so bad if people like Trump paid taxes themselves.

 

As regards your kids being short of stuff at school, that is going to get a whole lot worse if Trump gets his 58 Billion increase for defence approved in congress.

 

What Trump has done here is focus on maybe 20k miners jobs when those people should be being retrained in sustainable green energy production. In doing this he has abdicated the US position as World leader. People are so disgusted with what America has done I think these trade deficits are going to get even bigger. I won't visit the US, do business with the US or buy US and I am one of a growing global army that feel the same. No amount of debate or discussion will change the view of Trump supporters and their messiah, so the truth will have to be seen in the results.

 

I wonder what it must be like to be the kind of person that can wake up to this news and feel happy about it? I can only rationalise it by thinking those that are happy are synaptically challenged. If you are human and care for your fellow man nothing else but sadness and disappointment makes any sense. Macron and France will step in as surrogate leaders of the free world until China take advantage and step in.  Even the Chinese President has voiced dismay at what the US has done

[Jingthing]

The iconic front page from a trump hometown newspaper of the day that will live in infamy --

 

[Opl]

 

by Tom ( Netherlands)

 

[simple1]

6 hours ago, Trouble said:

<snip> Obama should have put the damn treaty before Congress, but he did not want to do that.

The Paris Accord is not a "Treaty" as legally it is non-binding. The foundation framework for the Paris Accord was ratified by Congress via the UN Convention on Climate Change (Treaty) in the mid 90s. The UN Convention is the the Treaty ratification cancelled by the USA by Trump's decision which will take until after the next US election to complete the legal processes; Trump appears not to understand this matter.

[habanero]

2 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

So why hasn't Trump and Ivanka brought all of the manufacturing in his family businesses back from China, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam etc to the USA? He says the that Paris agreement was bad for the American taxpayer, maybe it wouldn't be so bad if people like Trump paid taxes themselves.

 

As regards your kids being short of stuff at school, that is going to get a whole lot worse if Trump gets his 58 Billion increase for defence approved in congress.

 

What Trump has done here is focus on maybe 20k miners jobs when those people should be being retrained in sustainable green energy production. In doing this he has abdicated the US position as World leader. People are so disgusted with what America has done I think these trade deficits are going to get even bigger. I won't visit the US, do business with the US or buy US and I am one of a growing global army that feel the same. No amount of debate or discussion will change the view of Trump supporters and their messiah, so the truth will have to be seen in the results.

 

I wonder what it must be like to be the kind of person that can wake up to this news and feel happy about it? I can only rationalise it by thinking those that are happy are synaptically challenged. If you are human and care for your fellow man nothing else but sadness and disappointment makes any sense. Macron and France will step in as surrogate leaders of the free world until China take advantage and step in.  Even the Chinese President has voiced dismay at what the US has done

Mandates would have forced the closure of many of the least-expensive power plants nationwide, raising energy prices at a time of tepid economic growth and sky-high deficits. Manufacturers, domestic energy producers, and countless related industries would have been driven out of business or forced to significantly scale back their operations while taxpayer-subsidized, inefficient, high-cost renewable-energy industries thrived—all at the expense of everyday Americans.
Under the Paris agreement, major economic and geopolitical competitors—including China, India, and Russia—would have been allowed to grow their low-cost carbon dioxide emissions while the United States would have been forced to implement draconian cuts, making their economies comparatively more attractive to corporations looking to slash costs and significantly reducing Americans’ ability to compete in an increasingly global marketplace.

[simple1]

12 minutes ago, habanero said:

Mandates would have forced the closure of many of the least-expensive power plants nationwide, raising energy prices at a time of tepid economic growth and sky-high deficits. Manufacturers, domestic energy producers, and countless related industries would have been driven out of business or forced to significantly scale back their operations while taxpayer-subsidized, inefficient, high-cost renewable-energy industries thrived—all at the expense of everyday Americans.
Under the Paris agreement, major economic and geopolitical competitors—including China, India, and Russia—would have been allowed to grow their low-cost carbon dioxide emissions while the United States would have been forced to implement draconian cuts, making their economies comparatively more attractive to corporations looking to slash costs and significantly reducing Americans’ ability to compete in an increasingly global marketplace.

Here is example counters to your assumptions, in this case India and China.

 

http://climateactiontracker.org/countries/india.html

 

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/barbara-finamore/good-news-chinas-dropping-coal-consumption-putting-brakes-global-carbon

 

US was not / is not forced to implement 'draconian cuts', it's voluntary.

Edited June 2, 2017 by simple1

[habanero]

39 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Here is example counters to your assumptions, in this case India and China.

 

http://climateactiontracker.org/countries/india.html

 

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/barbara-finamore/good-news-chinas-dropping-coal-consumption-putting-brakes-global-carbon

 

US was not / is not forced to implement 'draconian cuts', it's voluntary.

Well, then why all the controversy?  Shouldn't it also be voluntary for the U.S. to be part of the accord?  If the rest of the world could get together more often on other matters instead of just bashing the United States, the world would be a much better place.................... 

[muffy]

Let them do it on their , no more heavy lifting , for the USA .

[ilostmypassword]

38 minutes ago, habanero said:

Well, then why all the controversy?  Shouldn't it also be voluntary for the U.S. to be part of the accord?  If the rest of the world could get together more often on other matters instead of just bashing the United States, the world would be a much better place.................... 

But the world is getting it together. 

India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

India’s plans were cited by American critics of the Paris climate accord as proof of the futility of advanced nations trying to limit their carbon output. But now, even as President Trump pulls the United States out of the pact, India has undergone an astonishing turnaround, driven in great part by a steep fall in the cost of solar power...

Rather than building coal-fired plants, it is now canceling many in the early planning stages. And last month, the government lowered its annual production target for coal to 600 million tons from 660 million.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/world/asia/india-coal-green-energy-climate.html

[simple1]

1 hour ago, habanero said:

Well, then why all the controversy?  Shouldn't it also be voluntary for the U.S. to be part of the accord?  If the rest of the world could get together more often on other matters instead of just bashing the United States, the world would be a much better place.................... 

The controversy is being generated by Trump's withdrawal from a number of environmental and other policies that were viewed for the betterment of humanity. Some now call out the Trump Administration as the lead player of 'idiocracy'.

 

In reference to country 'bashing' is it not Trump who now is in the forefront of such behaviour.

Edited June 3, 2017 by simple1

[KarenBravo]

2 hours ago, habanero said:

Mandates would have forced the closure of many of the least-expensive power plants nationwide, raising energy prices at a time of tepid economic growth and sky-high deficits. Manufacturers, domestic energy producers, and countless related industries would have been driven out of business or forced to significantly scale back their operations while taxpayer-subsidized, inefficient, high-cost renewable-energy industries thrived—all at the expense of everyday Americans.
Under the Paris agreement, major economic and geopolitical competitors—including China, India, and Russia—would have been allowed to grow their low-cost carbon dioxide emissions while the United States would have been forced to implement draconian cuts, making their economies comparatively more attractive to corporations looking to slash costs and significantly reducing Americans’ ability to compete in an increasingly global marketplace.

The USA wouldn't be "forced" to do anything.

Everything within the accord was voluntary.

[LannaGuy]

Trump has chosen America over Mother Earth and Nationalism over Globalism. What a sad day for humanity but part of the blame goes to the liberal/PC lovin' left who cared more about being PC than anything else and so many abhorred this ridiculousness that they voted in a tyrant. One can only hope the lesson is learnt.

[stander]

http://time.com/4803001/leonardo-dicaprio-on-trump-environment/

An actor who pretends for a living playing fictional characters now trying to solve fictional problems.

[Opl]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

Trump has chosen America over Mother Earth and Nationalism over Globalism. What a sad day for humanity but part of the blame goes to the liberal/PC lovin' left who cared more about being PC than anything else and so many abhorred this ridiculousness that they voted in a tyrant. One can only hope the lesson is learnt.

Maybe Trump choose his reelection first.

[Srikcir]

Despite Trump's pull out of the Paris Agreement, Americans will continue individually, through cities and states to support it.

Michael Bloomberg pledged up to $15 million to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change to replace a wa comparable amount in funding from the U.S. as a result of the American withdrawal.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/noahkirsch/2017/06/01/billionaire-out-billionaire-in-bloomberg-pledges-15m-to-climate-as-trump-ditches-paris-deal/#1260ecc4bda3

There is Trump's America and then there is the Real America to Make the Planet Great.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

The controversy is being generated by Trump's withdrawal from a number of environmental and other policies that were viewed for the betterment of humanity. Some now call out the Trump Administration as the lead player of 'idiocracy'.

 

In reference to country 'bashing' is it not Trump who now is in the forefront of such behaviour.

Idiocracy - very good, I like that. 

 

http://www.wordcentral.com/byod/byod_search.php?term=idiocracy

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/donald-trump-for-president-idiocracy-is-coming-true/

Edited June 3, 2017 by Grouse

[Andaman Al]

4 hours ago, habanero said:

Mandates would have forced the closure of many of the least-expensive power plants nationwide, raising energy prices at a time of tepid economic growth and sky-high deficits. Manufacturers, domestic energy producers, and countless related industries would have been driven out of business or forced to significantly scale back their operations while taxpayer-subsidized, inefficient, high-cost renewable-energy industries thrived—all at the expense of everyday Americans.
Under the Paris agreement, major economic and geopolitical competitors—including China, India, and Russia—would have been allowed to grow their low-cost carbon dioxide emissions while the United States would have been forced to implement draconian cuts, making their economies comparatively more attractive to corporations looking to slash costs and significantly reducing Americans’ ability to compete in an increasingly global marketplace.

With respect what you have written is complete and utter rubbish. There were no mandates and no financial burdens. It was a VOLUNTARY plan and the US had set a PERSONAL goal to show itself as THE world leader, a goal for other nations to aspire to, a goal that established the US as the serious global leader it used to be (these goals and contributions could have been modified and changed as easily as you modify and change your own exercise plan). Under the paris agreement what the US made on production of Green energy would have been 10 times more than what it 'cost'. At future treaties where mandates were considered,the US would have been firmly in the driving seat, now they are relegated to being a non participant and even if they do 'rejoin' their word and advice will never be taken seriously for decades.

 

3 hours ago, habanero said:

Well, then why all the controversy?  Shouldn't it also be voluntary for the U.S. to be part of the accord?  If the rest of the world could get together more often on other matters instead of just bashing the United States, the world would be a much better place.................... 

It was voluntary for the USA, did Trump forget to tell you that during his rantings? The controversy is caused by the people like you that have listened to the criminals like Trump and followed in blind obedience to a global conman. Don't you even feel slightly embarrassed or ashamed at how you have been sucker punched by Trump? He made this decision for an increase in personal wealth. He made the decision to keep 60 million redneck voters who have no idea of what being a member of the world is, happy in their stupidity and ignorance. 6 billion other people now look on in dismay. I guess this rates the USA now as the biggest human rights abuser in the world. Go Donald, make America great again!

 

The world will manage to control emissions just fine without America, you will have the delicate matter of explaining to your grand children how America went from being great (which it already was) to being despised.

 

What Trump did to the USA was not save money or jobs, he threw the US position of world leader under the bus and you won't get it back. The world is not bashing the US, the US is flagellating itself.

 

The bright side is that as of today America has taken the heat of Israel in terms of being despised. What is the incarceration of a few million people compared to sticking up the bird at 5.7 Billion and saying 'we don't care'. Build that wall Donald - all the way round, better still why not put a great big dome over the top as well, then the world will be safe.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Andaman Al

[Andaman Al]

21 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Despite Trump's pull out of the Paris Agreement, Americans will continue individually, through cities and states to support it.

Michael Bloomberg pledged up to $15 million to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change to replace a wa comparable amount in funding from the U.S. as a result of the American withdrawal.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/noahkirsch/2017/06/01/billionaire-out-billionaire-in-bloomberg-pledges-15m-to-climate-as-trump-ditches-paris-deal/#1260ecc4bda3

There is Trump's America and then there is the Real America to Make the Planet Great.

It wouldn't surprise me if Trump deducts 15 million from Federal grants to New York now 

[stander]

The real fear of Climate Globalists is Americans standing together again and doing what's best for America.

[habanero]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

The controversy is being generated by Trump's withdrawal from a number of environmental and other policies that were viewed for the betterment of humanity. Some now call out the Trump Administration as the lead player of 'idiocracy'.

 

In reference to country 'bashing' is it not Trump who now is in the forefront of such behaviour.

If you want to bash Trump then go for it. What I was referring to, is the bashing of "The USA,  U.S. ,  United States, American People".  

 Say what you mean, but remember people will believe,
 you mean what you say........................

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎02‎.‎06‎.‎2017 at 10:51 AM, LannaGuy said:

Nonsense not backed by Science it's obvious to 99% of us that humans laying waste to our planet has caused terrible climatic changes in the ecosphere. Acid rain, warming, increasing desserts, cutting rainforests etc. etc. etc.

So, are you agreeing with me the solution to the problem is to reduce the world's population?

Unless that is done, IMO nothing will change.

It is possible for individuals to make a difference by not using private cars, travelling by air or using electricity generated by fossil fuel. How many will do so- so few it won't make any difference at all.

How many thousand cars join the pollution every day world wide?

[habanero]

53 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

With respect what you have written is complete and utter rubbish. There were no mandates and no financial burdens. It was a VOLUNTARY plan and the US had set a PERSONAL goal to show itself as THE world leader, a goal for other nations to aspire to, a goal that established the US as the serious global leader it used to be (these goals and contributions could have been modified and changed as easily as you modify and change your own exercise plan). Under the paris agreement what the US made on production of Green energy would have been 10 times more than what it 'cost'. At future treaties where mandates were considered,the US would have been firmly in the driving seat, now they are relegated to being a non participant and even if they do 'rejoin' their word and advice will never be taken seriously for decades.

 

It was voluntary for the USA, did Trump forget to tell you that during his rantings? The controversy is caused by the people like you that have listened to the criminals like Trump and followed in blind obedience to a global conman. Don't you even feel slightly embarrassed or ashamed at how you have been sucker punched by Trump? He made this decision for an increase in personal wealth. He made the decision to keep 60 million redneck voters who have no idea of what being a member of the world is, happy in their stupidity and ignorance. 6 billion other people now look on in dismay. I guess this rates the USA now as the biggest human rights abuser in the world. Go Donald, make America great again!

 

The world will manage to control emissions just fine without America, you will have the delicate matter of explaining to your grand children how America went from being great (which it already was) to being despised.

 

What Trump did to the USA was not save money or jobs, he threw the US position of world leader under the bus and you won't get it back. The world is not bashing the US, the US is flagellating itself.

 

The bright side is that as of today America has taken the heat of Israel in terms of being despised. What is the incarceration of a few million people compared to sticking up the bird at 5.7 Billion and saying 'we don't care'. Build that wall Donald - all the way round, better still why not put a great big dome over the top as well, then the world will be safe.

In all fairness, Obama made this deal without the ratification of the Senate............ Why, was that?

[thaibeachlovers]

Just saw Jerry Brown on tv saying that because of Trump, insects will inhabit parts of the world not currently populated by them .

With stupid statements like that it's no wonder people like me scorn them.

[sujoop]

D'oh! (Covfefe = same;)

 

[simple1]

24 minutes ago, habanero said:

If you want to bash Trump then go for it. What I was referring to, is the bashing of "The USA,  U.S. ,  United States, American People".  

 Say what you mean, but remember people will believe,
 you mean what you say........................

IMO the dislike expressed towards America is aimed at political decisions effecting other countries and the disenfranchised, not the US in general.

[sujoop]

13 hours ago, 55Jay said:

 

18 hours ago, sujoop said:

 

 

 

Was merely pointing out the FACT (something Trumpsters stumble with;) that even Trump's own top General and all the strategic military planners are saying climate change is not only real, it IS already having a real effect, predicting results will eventually bring further instability in already unstable regions, plus increased migration (read: the dreaded 'refugees/immigrants', which ironically forms a key pillar of Trump's support)
 

However, Steve Bannon (plus a desire to 'WHITE-OUT'  anything Obama's fingers touched) obviously Trump's mere science and even one's own top General & military strategists... Memories of another Trump boast 'I know MORE than the Generals, believe me'...

 

Well, that settles it then, doesn't it!  LOL. 

 

The point you were made originally, however, which you've side stepped, was based on regurgitated nonsense. 

 

Sorry, I can't take credit as the point was made by Trump's top General and leading Military strategists. But apparently Trump's minority of followers as well as Trump himself 'know more than the Generals'... (plus more than 97% of climate scientists;) thus are qualified to 'take that risk' - on behalf of everyone else....

 

Edited June 3, 2017 by sujoop

[Andaman Al]

39 minutes ago, habanero said:

In all fairness, Obama made this deal without the ratification of the Senate............ Why, was that?

The decision for the framework was put through congress then the UN in the 90's. Congress approved. Obama was continuing to build on the work of his predecessors not to destroy it at all costs. Like the AFA, nothing is perfect but systems have to be put into place and then tweaked. 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Andaman Al

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, simple1 said:

IMO the dislike expressed towards America is aimed at political decisions effecting other countries and the disenfranchised, not the US in general.

True. America has been disliked ever since the Vietnam war for it's politics, but individual Americans I have met are some of the nicest people I have known.

[simple1]

40 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just saw Jerry Brown on tv saying that because of Trump, insects will inhabit parts of the world not currently populated by them .

With stupid statements like that it's no wonder people like me scorn them.

Brown has raised the issue of insects & climate change before with beetles killing trees in CA, some agree, some don't.