Family opens doors to tourists to help boys learn English

[metisdead]

Grammar police posts and replies have been removed.  Some other posts of a trolling nature have been removed as well. 
 
A post containing Nazi hyperbole generalization has been removed. 

 

Off topic posts and replies bickering about work permits have been removed. 

 

A post containing denigrating comments on moderation has now been removed. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by metisdead

[wump]

US and UK spelling is almost identical. No need to change anything. Neither systems are phonetic or make any sense. Thai is actually much better in this regard as it is nearly 100% phonetic. In EN, you have to memorize every single word.

Edited June 12, 2017 by wump

[EnlightenedAtheist]

29 minutes ago, wump said:

US and UK spelling is almost identical. No need to change anything. Neither systems are phonetic or make any sense. Thai is actually much better in this regard as it is nearly 100% phonetic. In EN, you have to memorize every single word.

Which explains the need for stressing speaking first, which requires someone to monitor and guide a discussion, as a model of proper pronunciation (which varies tremendously at the vowel level from one dialect to another). There are 50 countries speaking English and there are many more dialectal variations that one could record, again mostly at the vowel level. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_chart_for_English_dialects This is just the tip of the iceberg. Which accents make sense? Should we expose them to 3 thousand different ways of pronouncing words? The whole thing is so absurd and idiotic.

 

There is NO REASON why it could not be fixed, but arrogance, ignorance, and stubbornness trump reason and progress every time. Let's have 1.5 billion people struggling to read and learn this ... mess. Loose cabling indeed. The status quo is so easy.

Edited June 12, 2017 by EnlightenedAtheist

[EnlightenedAtheist]

42 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

And that has to do with having an english speaking guest staying with you how exactly.

Now do as promised trot on.

Paid teacher or owners of tutoring agencies will obviously fight tooth and nail this, using bogus laws and rules. I fixed my light bulb the other day.

 

Maybe one could claim, as an English teacher or speaker even, that one has a specialty that no Thais could perform and could get that visa. I forget the name of the visa. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by EnlightenedAtheist

[jwest10]

3 hours ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

Thai or foreigner?

Hi 
Well talking about Thai Directors who as far as I know are Thai, but the teachers Thai and Filipinos and for some reason, the Educational Authorities and schools seem to take a liking to the latter and presumably because they come cheaper, but if they want to teach American English, then fine. And I am not knocking American English, but when they say, Native speakers that would mean British surely?  The same problems each year and there is a project been going on for 5 years now and the same subject Corn on Cob and frankly,  this is amazing !!!
 

[jeab1980]

30 minutes ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

Paid teacher or owners of tutoring agencies will obviously fight tooth and nail this, using bogus laws and rules. I fixed my light bulb the other day.

 

Maybe one could claim, as an English teacher or speaker even, that one has a specialty that no Thais could perform and could get that visa. I forget the name of the visa. 

Fight what ? A guest comes to stay whats the problem. Some of my lads friends come to see him and we all speak English whats the problem. Some people just love to pick holes/find something wrong with everything which is good and posative on here. So as i said earlier can go to Pattaya and boom boom but god forbid you speak English to her.

Stupid argument and as always the WP and against the Law posters jump in.

Edited June 12, 2017 by jeab1980

[Maestro]

11 hours ago, fruitman said:

...But will travellers who stay there have to report the address to the police as their place of stay? 

 

If it is the traveller's first place of stay after arrival in Thailand, this is the address in Thailand to be written on the arrival card.

[hotchilli]

I wonder if the authorities will be paying the home a visit to see if they have all the relevant licences to run a guest house, and are reporting all guests staying at the residence to the police as required....

 

[mok199]

3 hours ago, SABloke said:

 

If you think Thai is hard to write you must find English astronomically difficult! Thai is phonetically regular so it's pretty simple. English on the other hand: rough, tough, through, plough, dough.

And if you're speaking of the actual characters being difficult well that just depends on what you learnt first: forming a "d" is no easier than forming a "<snip>" for example.

 

if and when you ever learn to read write and speak thai...we can continue this conversation..until then  zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[mok199]

2 hours ago, wump said:

Untrue. I can teach you Thai writing in 20 hours. Just not allowed to :)

if you want to quote me..get your facts straight....I am referring to children...and please do not tell me it is is easy for them...

[mok199]

2 hours ago, wump said:

I guess a lot of you guys can't comprehend just how hard it is to learn English for Thai or Chinese people. Starts with pronouciation and they find tenses and prepositions extremely difficult as they don't use them in Thai. They have to learn everything by heart, that's why you mostly only hear the literal translation from TH to EN which is essentially bar girl English.

 

IMO the best way to study English is watching TV with subtitles. Did it for me and seems to work well. Nordic countries (except Finland) all have their TV programmes subbed and they all speak excellent English.

learning any language is just ''learning by heart''..or ''memorization''repatition'',,its basic ...its how we all began...

[mok199]

3 hours ago, wump said:

Untrue. I can teach you Thai writing in 20 hours. Just not allowed to :)

that is abslute rubbish.and you insult all of us who have spent years learning this language....what other promise can you make me'' lose 10 lbs in a week''...

[SABloke]

if and when you ever learn to read write and speak thai...we can continue this conversation..until then  zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Ok. Done. Years ago actually. Willing to continue the conversation now?

[wump]

15 minutes ago, mok199 said:

that is abslute rubbish.and you insult all of us who have spent years learning this language....what other promise can you make me'' lose 10 lbs in a week''...

Actually, I can. If you're talking about American pounds and you weigh over 100 kilos.

 

Maybe you should read "Thai for Beginners" which does an excellent job at teaching the writing and the tones. I am really not the smartest guy on earth, but I read 10 pages of the 150-or-so page book every day for an hour having beers at the beach and have no problem reading Thai now. Never bothered learning the vocabulary though, so not of too much use (but helps with getting the tone right with the few words I can speak). 

 

If an adult can do it, it must be even easier for a child. I agree that they could probably do away with a few letters but in general the Thai script does a quite effective job. Looks certainly nicer than Vietnamese or the mega-complicated Cambodian script.

 

I am all for introducing spaces though. I have absolutely no idea how these guys can read subtitles in a movie whenawholesentenceisdisplayedforafractionofasecond.

Edited June 12, 2017 by wump

[balo]

9 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Admiral approach but English would really be best taught by a native English Language speaker

Really ?  In most European countries they learn to speak English at an early age . A Swiss backpacker will have no problems to communicate in English, just like people from Scandinavia.     Irish and Scottish accents can be just as difficult to understand as the English spoken in my own country Norway. 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2017 by balo

[mok199]

2 hours ago, wump said:

Actually, I can. If you're talking about American pounds and you weigh over 100 kilos.

 

Maybe you should read "Thai for Beginners" which does an excellent job at teaching the writing and the tones. I am really not the smartest guy on earth, but I read 10 pages of the 150-or-so page book every day for an hour having beers at the beach and have no problem reading Thai now. Never bothered learning the vocabulary though, so not of too much use (but helps with getting the tone right with the few words I can speak). 

 

If an adult can do it, it must be even easier for a child. I agree that they could probably do away with a few letters but in general the Thai script does a quite effective job. Looks certainly nicer than Vietnamese or the mega-complicated Cambodian script.

 

I am all for introducing spaces though. I have absolutely no idea how these guys can read subtitles in a movie whenawholesentenceisdisplayedforafractionofasecond.

thai for beginners.555 we are way past that...but thanks for the tip,,i found the best learning book was ''thai refrence grammer'' higbie....combined with a good thai dictionary to increase the vocabulary...

Edited June 12, 2017 by mok199

[Dumbastheycome]

11 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

I've found they will often use English while at the same time I'm trying to use Thai. I suppose in Pattaya many of the people with whom I come into frequent, brief contact are more confident in their use of English. Many of them do far better than I do in Thai.

 

Not sure having random tourists with a variety of accents and skills levels is a good way to expose young children to the English language. Even native speaking adults can be totally flummoxed by the accents of other English speakers with "foreign" accents.

Children  have a  less  "fixed "  ear (and  tongue)  that  adults in general. If these  kids  are  also  getting  formal English  lessons from  (hopefully) a  native   English speaking  language  teacher to provide  a grammatical  backup  then  I think  it  is  a very clever  enhancement.

In  the  UK the  variation  in native English  flummoxes even themselves !  lol

Incidentally  why  do  some  so readily  come  out  with   verbal dumping  about  work  permits?

The  guests  are  communicating  in  their  only  common language  with  the  hosts,  not  teaching.

 

[Dumbastheycome]

8 hours ago, darksidedog said:

This is a very valid point, though one should always remember that in Thailand, an ounce of common sense, is found much less regularly, than a bunch of money hungry immigration officials. with their hands out.

Perhaps  I  may be being  very perverse if  I were to suggest  that by that suggestion  any  foreigner who  even utters  one  word in  English to any  Hotel  Reception staff  or  anyone else  during their  stay in Thailand  would  come  under  suspicion  of   teaching  and  therefore  need  a  work permit.?

The  only issue  that  Officialdom   might see as  suspect  is that the   parents  may be deemed  to  be running  an  unofficial  boarding  house etc.

 

[Chama1]

Great idea...as long as they don't get the wrong type of tourist. There are some I wouldn't advise letting into my home, let alone having my children spend unsupervised time with them.

[observer90210]

Wonder at what point, immigration will swoop down on this remarkably amazing thai family, to ask for tea money as they perhaps forgot to declare the farangs at their place?

[EnlightenedAtheist]

5 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

Fight what ? A guest comes to stay whats the problem. Some of my lads friends come to see him and we all speak English whats the problem. Some people just love to pick holes/find something wrong with everything which is good and posative on here. So as i said earlier can go to Pattaya and boom boom but god forbid you speak English to her.

Stupid argument and as always the WP and against the Law posters jump in.

Oh!I hate to burst your ego bubble, but if people are going to do what essentially amounts to conversational teaching, tutoring agencies that are offering essentially the same service, but for a hefty fee will not find this really appealing. Get it now? I am not saying that they are helping the average Thais, but they must pay the bills. Is this clearer or do I need to explain what seems to be pretty self-explanatory, but maybe I am too smart.

Edited June 12, 2017 by EnlightenedAtheist

[jacko45k]

Great idea, I do hope no backpackers give them any bad experience.

[Keesters]

23 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Admiral approach but English would really be best taught by a native English Language speaker

They are not teaching. They are just having a conversation. Something that we all do from time to time: have a chat with a local. Understanding possibly bad English from a non native speaker is part of the process.

 

[NextStationBangkok]

17 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

Isn't English one of the official languages of Singapore?...I would be worried if they didn't speak it better than Thais. Not to mention it is probably the best education system in the world. Philippines obviously have had the Americans there for a long time now. Thai has made a conservative effort to keep outsiders out. 

Wasn't there a study of Thai English teachers that found only 3% are fluent, and 40% know enough of the basics to be able to teach it. Leaving 57% of English teachers with no idea (we have all met them). I think that is why Thai believe 'white' people are Gods of English, because they know how bad Thai teachers are. Those sort of statistics are not found in Singapore or the Philippines due to their past choices. 

I don't agree that 'whites' are Gods of English (some shockers out there), but I also don't agree that the current Thai English teachers are capable of anything.

 

The issue is not white vs Thai. it is timetabling (how often English is taught), and how it is taught. No fundamentals, just forcing kids to learn a speech for a competition, whilst every other kid in the room has to listen to one kid try and remember words he has no understanding of for a month, 

Thanks for your valuable inputs, comparing the Education systems of Singapore and Philipines.

 

I mean to say, there are English teachers other than Native(White) speakers, but Thai's less likely to employ them. For example if an African looking British/American citizen, a well qualified teacher applies for a job in Thai schools, his application will never considered for the job. There are plenty of Flippinos/Indians ready to teach English and other subjects, but hardly Thai schools recruit them. I know one of my Russian friend who can read little bit of English was teaching in Pattaya for survival. My main argument is skin color of the teacher is more important for Thai schools. I just want to say Thai's should look beyond Farang only teachers to achieve the goal.  Otherwise stay like this for ever.

[wildewillie89]

51 minutes ago, NextStationBangkok said:

Thanks for your valuable inputs, comparing the Education systems of Singapore and Philipines.

 

I mean to say, there are English teachers other than Native(White) speakers, but Thai's less likely to employ them. For example if an African looking British/American citizen, a well qualified teacher applies for a job in Thai schools, his application will never considered for the job. There are plenty of Flippinos/Indians ready to teach English and other subjects, but hardly Thai schools recruit them. I know one of my Russian friend who can read little bit of English was teaching in Pattaya for survival. My main argument is skin color of the teacher is more important for Thai schools. I just want to say Thai's should look beyond Farang only teachers to achieve the goal.  Otherwise stay like this for ever.

That I would fully agree with. People of Indian appearance, but are native speakers due to the fact they grew up in the West are looked unfavorably upon also. Philippine people do get employed quite a bit, but sometimes at reduced rates.

Teaching English in Thailand isn't really teaching English, it more just being used as an advertising by the school to get students to enroll and pay for the 'English Program'. If the school can get a young white person (preferably female - good looking), then the school will get the numbers. My employment place is always asking for extra teachers. Whenever the Philippine teachers suggest a friend it is ignored, they ask me for other handsome farang who want to work here.  I think it is more a reflection on Thai society than anything else, Thai trust white people more when it comes to English. The reasoning my workplace gives in relation to the Philippine teachers is, one, that the kids are not excited to work with them, and two, their accents aren't great. One I do not agree with, but two I can partly understand for some teachers.

Edited June 13, 2017 by wildewillie89

[EnlightenedAtheist]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

That I would fully agree with. People of Indian appearance, but are native speakers due to the fact they grew up in the West are looked unfavorably upon also. Philippine people do get employed quite a bit, but sometimes at reduced rates.

Teaching English in Thailand isn't really teaching English, it more just being used as an advertising by the school to get students to enroll and pay for the 'English Program'. If the school can get a young white person (preferably female - good looking), then the school will get the numbers. My employment place is always asking for extra teachers. Whenever the Philippine teachers suggest a friend it is ignored, they ask me for other handsome farang who want to work here.  I think it is more a reflection on Thai society than anything else, Thai trust white people more when it comes to English. The reasoning my workplace gives in relation to the Philippine teachers is, one, that the kids are not excited to work with them, and two, their accents aren't great. One I do not agree with, but two I can partly understand for some teachers.

That what happens when you always point to people who are not your kind and label them as "farang"! That with the other stigma that the elite has been successful in putting in everyone's mind (the dark skin stigma), fine for the elite whose kids can have cushy a/c jobs, ... There are some intelligent Thais, but given the brainwashing and the face washing,... Still, these kids belonging to the elite also get great schooling in private and oversea's schools/uni. The only way an Isaan woman has a chance in hell is to sell her body to jump the queue, which a lot of "farang" and rich Thais appreciate. Very devious! Checks and balances! 

[observer90210]

2 minutes ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

That what happens when you always point to people who are not your kind and label them as "farang"! That with the other stigma that the elite has been successful in putting in everyone's mind (the dark skin stigma), fine for the elite whose kids can have cushy a/c jobs, ... There are some intelligent Thais, but given the brainwashing and the face washing,... Still, these kids belonging to the elite also get great schooling in private and oversea's schools/uni. The only way an Isaan woman has a chance in hell is to sell her body to jump the queue, which a lot of "farang" and rich Thais appreciate. Very devious! Checks and balances! 

Funny how humans are obsessed and attracted to the opposite of their skin colour....in Europe, on the lovely shores of Mediterranean beaches, you will see the Brtits, Germans and other nordic folks, freely entertaining a potential  skin cancer with no sunscreen and getting roasted under the sun from noon to 5 pm!!...and on other parts of the world, people entertain further skin disease with bleach to make their skin fair....we really are never satisfied....

[wildewillie89]

3 minutes ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

That what happens when you always point to people who are not your kind and label them as "farang"! That with the other stigma that the elite has been successful in putting in everyone's mind (the dark skin stigma), fine for the elite whose kids can have cushy a/c jobs, ... There are some intelligent Thais, but given the brainwashing and the face washing,... Still, these kids belonging to the elite also get great schooling in private and oversea's schools/uni. The only way an Isaan woman has a chance in hell is to sell her body to jump the queue, which a lot of "farang" and rich Thais appreciate. Very devious! Checks and balances! 

It is an elitist country after all!
I would agree with some of that, but I would not fully agree with all of it. I agree with a lot of it more due to the funding that different regions in Thai get from the government. Whether it is education, health, whatever. The World Bank did a nice graph a few years ago showing the disproportions. No surprises about the difference in numbers of Bkk vs Issan. 

However, there is still some good stories. My Issan family initially went to the shitty village primary school and then the grandfather of my wife tried to force his kids (wife's father) into work after primary school. The father-in-law said no as he loved school. He personally went up to a high school in the city as a 12 year old and explained the situation that his father would not pay anything. The school tested him and gave him a scholarship. The teacher who gave it to him is the current Assistant Mayor of the city now actually (my boss). The father then went into the army, and sent back any money he made to educate some of his siblings who also liked school.

As it stands now, the father-in-law made it to the rank of Colonel before taking really early retirement to be the Mayor (11th best Mayor in the country already in his first term- trying to change his sub-district for the better), his brother he sent money to keep in school is now boss of police in the city. two other siblings (sister and brother) are local politicians, heads of village with business on the side. 

His kids (one being my wife) is a Director of Public Health, her brother Army, and sister a Physics teacher. Cousins are policeman, nurses, etc

Smart rural/farming kids can get by and move up in the country. They just need to work that little bit harder than the elite who are handed tutoring or cushy private sector jobs. 

[bbi1]

Having non-native speakers teach their kid English isn't the best thing. How do they know this Swiss woman can speak English correctly? I suspect the kid might end up a funny accent after learning English from everyone all over the world, not to mention wrong grammar. The family should make is a prerequisite that only native speaking backpackers are allowed 

 

On 2017-6-12 at 11:43 AM, whatawonderfulday said:

Admiral approach but English would really be best taught by a native English Language speaker

Tru dat brother! They'll be able to learn the different type of English slang too.

Edited June 13, 2017 by bbi1

[bbi1]

On 2017-6-12 at 1:27 PM, cruisemonkey said:

 

Could be worse... what if all the guests were Scots? 

Hahaha Scots & Irish, those accents are difficult to understand