Latimer Road fire: Huge fire engulfs west London flats

[Flustered]

1 minute ago, Here It Is said:

Flustered, my point is is that if I set my under crackers on fire in a fit of pique in my fourth floor flat then it shouldn't, regulation wise, have spread to the entire block.  

Don't disagree but the cause is of paramount importance.]

 

It should not have spread like that and somewhere something has gone sadly wrong.

 

This is the reason I wish people would stop shouting for immediate answers, they won't find them.

 

This needs a full investigative inquiry that will by it's very nature take months and not the knee jerk reaction that some politicians and members of the public are calling for.

[Flustered]

2 minutes ago, balo said:

How can a fridge start a fire ?  Should we be worried ?  

 

 

Short circuit and if there is a lot of grease down the walls that would aid the fire. If the fridge was old/damaged the motor could overheat and short out. Overloaded plug extension (common in these homes) Several things could have gone wrong.

 

However, a properly wired fridge would be on a circuit breaker that would trip before any damage was done.

 

One thing I know is that the LFB are experts in determining causes of fires.

[sandrabbit]

 

sky news reporter is reinforcing riot behaviour

Edited June 16, 2017 by sandrabbit

[SovietChild]

17 minutes ago, balo said:

How can a fridge start a fire ?  Should we be worried ?  

 

 

That's what I was thinking. My first thought was maybe some buddy was hiding a bomb.

[Here It Is]

3 minutes ago, SovietChild said:

That's what I was thinking. My first thought was maybe some buddy was hiding a bomb.

I'll say it again.  Whatever the cause of the fire is almost irrelevant.  

 

A fire in the fourth floor flat shouldn't have ignited the entire building based on the assumed fire retardant qualities of the building.

[JamJar]

1 hour ago, Here It Is said:

There's obviously so much shit stirring going down here from Lilly Allen and the usual agitators.

 

Didn't see any of this lot protesting after our kids were decapitated and maimed in the Manchester attack and not a peep either after Borough Market or Westminster Bridge [right on their doorstep] and all very recent events.  Notwithstanding, there's a huge charity undertaking that's raised millions already for those affected.

 

This situation needs to calm soonest as the very generous British public will soon lose faith and quite rightly turn their back.  Throw in another terror attack for good measure and things could well go tits right up.  

 

 

It seems to me that you are contributing to the hysteria.

What connection has the Westminster Bridge attack to do with this entirely avoidable disaster? Despicable to use those instances to whip up fervour against others. Disgusting. 

 

Apart from that, do you actually know where Lily Allen lives to be stating that Westminster is "right on her doorstep".

She certainly lived/lives closer to North Kensington than Westminster and so will have knowledge of how the area has changed over the years.

Do you? 

But here you are posting away.

The people behind the Grenfell Action Group were threatened with legal action for libel by the local authority a few years ago. A hollow threat that came to nothing.

Now we know who was right and people paid with their lives to prove it.

 

So perhaps those 'agitators' know a lot more about the situation on the ground than you do and they are doing their best to keep it to the fore.

What is it that you are doing? Sitting back and waiting for the results of a government led inquiry? Then what?

 

[JamJar]

47 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Don't disagree but the cause is of paramount importance.]

 

It should not have spread like that and somewhere something has gone sadly wrong.

 

This is the reason I wish people would stop shouting for immediate answers, they won't find them.

 

This needs a full investigative inquiry that will by it's very nature take months and not the knee jerk reaction that some politicians and members of the public are calling for.

 

 

So you think they should wait for months before checking the other buildings or rehousing people or.....

 

Look...they have been told about these things for years and did nothing. 

 

Why should people wait for months? By then people would have forgotten and moved on to other things. heads should roll for sure. The sooner the better.

[Here It Is]

2 minutes ago, JamJar said:

It seems to me that you are contributing to the hysteria.

What connection has the Westminster Bridge attack to do with this entirely avoidable disaster? Despicable to use those instances to whip up fervour against others. Disgusting. 

 

Apart from that, do you actually know where Lily Allen lives to be stating that Westminster is "right on her doorstep".

She certainly lived/lives closer to North Kensington than Westminster and so will have knowledge of how the area has changed over the years.

Do you? 

But here you are posting away.

Where did I mention where Lilly Allen lives?

 

Don't even bother arguing with me as I won't give you the time of day if you're going to talk nonsense.

 

Look conversely as I am extremely understanding of the present situation, but the locals shouldn't push it.  Calm is the way to go.

[JamJar]

59 minutes ago, Flustered said:

I completely disagree.

 

The cause of the fire is of paramount importance as it then goes to showing why the fire spread so quickly.

 

It all depends on the type of fire, the amount of time the fire was burning before any action was taken and were there any smoke detectors fitted in the flats or hallways.

 

If the cause was electrical, then that requires a major review of the installations in the blocks. If the cause was gas, that's another area and so on.

 

This investigation needs to be carried out thoroughly and not a knee jerk one as many people want.

 

 

It's more than apparent to all, that you accuse others of politicising, but your signature reveals that it is likely you who is approaching this from a political point of view.

 

[Here It Is]

4 minutes ago, JamJar said:

Why should people wait for months? By then people would have forgotten and moved on to other things. heads should roll for sure. The sooner the better.

I think you'll find there's over 10mm already in the kitty for those affected already.  Don't start.

 

I can see you're in a particularly belligerent mood.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Here It Is

[JamJar]

1 minute ago, Here It Is said:

Where did I mention where Lilly Allen lives?

 

Don't even bother arguing with me as I won't give you the time of day if you're going to talk nonsense.

 

Look conversely as I am extremely understanding of the present situation, but the locals shouldn't push it.  Calm is the way to go.

 

 

There's obviously so much shit stirring going down here from Lilly Allen and the usual agitators.

 

Didn't see any of this lot protesting after our kids were decapitated and maimed in the Manchester attack and not a peep either after Borough Market or Westminster Bridge [right on their doorstep] 

 

So to whose doorstep where you referring, Mr Calm?

[JamJar]

1 minute ago, Here It Is said:

I think you'll find there's over 10mm already in the kitty for those affected already.  Don't start.

 

I can see you're in a particularly belligerent mood.

 

 

 

What has money got to do with it? Dead is dead. Too late.

[Here It Is]

Just now, JamJar said:

There's obviously so much shit stirring going down here from Lilly Allen and the usual agitators.

 

Didn't see any of this lot protesting after our kids were decapitated and maimed in the Manchester attack and not a peep either after Borough Market or Westminster Bridge [right on their doorstep] 

 

So to whose doorstep where you referring, Mr Calm?

I'm not going to put you on my ignore list as I quite enjoy your posts.

 

But, in this instance, I won't be responding any further.

[beautifulthailand99]

3 minutes ago, Here It Is said:

I'm not going to put you on my ignore list as I quite enjoy your posts.

 

But, in this instance, I won't be responding any further.

Your quiet dignity is rare on these boards and most welcome.

[beautifulthailand99]

Some of the comments here make me realise a) how boring it must be to live in  Thailand full time how the place attracts an unhealthy coterie of undesirable , bigoted malcontents and c) I should spend less time here and more in the real world with healthy , functioning adults and finally d)  my anticipated 3 month overwintering will be more than enough - thankyou.

[JamJar]

5 minutes ago, Here It Is said:

I'm not going to put you on my ignore list as I quite enjoy your posts.

 

But, in this instance, I won't be responding any further.

 

 

I think that you should respond and stand by what you write.

You could be making a perfectly valid point. But we'll never know if you hit and run.

It could be that we are discussing at cross purposes.

When I write of people not waiting, I am certainly not referring to any kind of violent or aggressive behaviour. 

I am writing or immediate action to prevent this from ever happening again.

So if you have a point, stand up like a man and make it without fear.

 

[JamJar]

9 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Some of the comments here make me realise a) how boring it must be to live in  Thailand full time how the place attracts an unhealthy coterie of undesirable , bigoted malcontents and c) I should spend less time here and more in the real world with healthy , functioning adults and finally d)  my anticipated 3 month overwintering will be more than enough - thankyou.

 

Do you imagine that everyone posting here is in Thailand?

When I heard about the London Bridge incident, I went straight out to look for perpetrators. Only later did I learn they were already dead.

Some of us act when we can, rather than just to sit in our chairs and talk about it.

Edited June 16, 2017 by JamJar

[Scott]

Off-topic post reported and removed.  

[zoza]

10 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

asking the PM to give answers within 24 hours

?

you are having a laugh

 

10 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

not sure that the Cons are blaming the dead

Where did you read that?

it is all over Msn news with his picture (which I thought was not a good move?) as I

spoke with an x fireman mate  a few days ago and predicted the anger and maybe a riot

in the case of Lily Allen I have never seen her before and it was stated that she was a

local celeb and she seemed as genuine as any one else making statements.

but what about the fact that in the report she got a bit upset and accused the powers

that be of manipulating the death toll numbers and said police and firemen had told her

the real figures were more than one hundred.(all off the record)the very next day the police issued a statement that the figure could be around a hundred.....now was this local celeb just making her story up and she just happened to come up with this same number.

and she got thrown off news night that day....what had she done apart from say something

that was later confirmed by the police as true. people see this and all it does is make them

believe nothing the authorities have to say.

May comes out with" lessons to be learned "like 2009 when six people died in a similar high rise fire in London guess what they had a public enquiry and learnt nothing but the people

did and now they have another "advisor" going under the bus for sitting on the report for

four years that's three advisors in about ten days. people are not buying the bull any more.   

[Orton Rd]

Lily Allen is not a local celeb, she is a rich posh pop singer with a mansion in the cotswalds, far a way from the illegal immigrants she seems to love so much. She was not around with her bleeding heart when the terrorists struck, but any chance to promote her socialist utopia and she's there.

[HauptmannUK]

Watched Theresa being interviewed on BBC Newsnight last night. Came over very badly. She was really struggling.  With the hopeless election campaign and most Tories being very wary about a deal with the DUPes I think she is now in a very difficult place and has become a serious liability. I am backing Hammond for party leader.

[HauptmannUK]

The more that comes out about this incident, the more shocked I become.

Cladding had already been tested and found to be a fire risk; company that did the work was engaged in various tax-dodges and 'restructurings'; gas and fire alarm installations not done properly.

Sprinklers not required; no fite-fighting equipment in the building; UK building regs permit high-rise buildings with a single stairway and no fire escape. Its all appalling stuff.

Now it seems that London FB does not have any platforms that extend above 30m! They had to borrow a 42m platform from Surrey FB!  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612672/London-fire-chiefs-borrow-engines-Surrey.html

 

Many other countries have platforms that go to 100m.  Of course that may not have helped, but it seems very poor that an affluent city like London, with many high rise buildings, seems to lacking in equipment that is fairly common elsewhere....

Edited June 17, 2017 by HauptmannUK

[DipStick]

23 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

The more that comes out about this incident, the more shocked I become.

Cladding had already been tested and found to be a fire risk; company that did the work was engaged in various tax-dodges and 'restructurings'; gas and fire alarm installations not done properly.

Sprinklers not required; no fite-fighting equipment in the building; UK building regs permit high-rise buildings with a single stairway and no fire escape. Its all appalling stuff.

Now it seems that London FB does not have any platforms that extend above 30m! They had to borrow a 42m platform from Surrey FB!  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612672/London-fire-chiefs-borrow-engines-Surrey.html

 

Many other countries have platforms that go to 100m.  Of course that may not have helped, but it seems very poor that an affluent city like London, with many high rise buildings, seems to lacking in equipment that is fairly common elsewhere....

As a matter of interest, the BMA have 6x Simon Ss600 Super Snorkels with a height reach of 60m as well as quite a number of Simon LTI 52m Ladders, whether they are still operational or not, who knows.

[HauptmannUK]

43 minutes ago, DipStick said:

As a matter of interest, the BMA have 6x Simon Ss600 Super Snorkels with a height reach of 60m as well as quite a number of Simon LTI 52m Ladders, whether they are still operational or not, who knows.

Ah, Simon Snorkel. There's a blast from the past. From the Black Country and exported all over the world. Folded up in the '90's IIRC..

[evadgib]

Support for victims of the Grenfell Tower disaster

 

Statement on charitable giving: Grenfell Tower Fire

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

A couple of basic points here:

 

--if this fire did start as a small kitchen and/or refrigerator fire, that's exactly the kind of fire that interior fire sprinkler systems are designed to stop and prevent from spreading and causing more damage.

 

--whatever did cause the start of the fire, there's no method I can envision that the fire would have spread so vastly the way it did -- IF proper building materials had been used. So, the fact it did spread that way pretty strongly suggests proper material were NOT used.

 

--Now that this high-rise building is devastated, it's time for folks here and the authorities in London to start considering that there are OTHER older high-rise buildings in the city also without sprinkler systems that may be similarly at risk.  It's time to change the law and require sprinklers in older high-rise buildings, either within a certain number of years and/or when any substantial work/renovation/repairs are being done.

 

[Andaman Al]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Support for victims of the Grenfell Tower disaster

 

Statement on charitable giving: Grenfell Tower Fire

I get it, but isn't it disgraceful that this kind of tragedy happens where people lose EVERYTHING and we have to rely on charity and food and clothing 'volunteers' to help the victims that were lucky enough to survive. This needs Government/National resources pumping in now, big money  that could be input in a heartbeat by the Government.

 

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

--Now that this high-rise building is devastated, it's time for folks here and the authorities in London to start considering that there are OTHER older high-rise buildings in the city also without sprinkler systems that may be similarly at risk.  It's time to change the law and require sprinklers in older high-rise buildings, either within a certain number of years and/or when any substantial work/renovation/repairs are being done.

Agreed, but really considering now we have witnessed the consequences it would be gross negligence to wait. I think I read on here earlier that someone found details of the cost of fitting a sprinkler system in the buildings at 200K GBP (seems cheap), If that is true then the Government need to front up the money NOW and get safety systems installed. The Government can then wait for councils to repay them over 'years' instead of waiting and putting so many more lives at risk.

[KhaoNiaw]

11 hours ago, sandrabbit said:

there will be rioting and theft tonight, police should shoot to kill catching anyone rioting and looting. this has happened so many times, the looters will be organising themselves now. 

So how was the rioting and theft?

[HauptmannUK]

6 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

I get it, but isn't it disgraceful that this kind of tragedy happens where people lose EVERYTHING and we have to rely on charity

I agree. In terms of government spend its sweet <deleted>. They could come up with the money overnight.

[AGareth2]

5 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

I agree. In terms of government spend its sweet <deleted>. They could come up with the money overnight.

5 million at the moment