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Latimer Road fire: Huge fire engulfs west London flats

webfact

By webfact
in World News

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Crossy Star Member

Crossy

Posted
Posted

Another off topic post has been removed.

 

Once again this thread is NOT about the WTC. Any further posts on the subject will net holidays.

 

You have been warned.

Basil B Ruby Member

Basil B

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

i had Guardian live updates on all of yesterday; there was one piece that stated when he refurbishing was done, 

part of the job was replacing heating pipes between floors and hooking up new central heating;

it was stated that this involved having to temporarily remove the fire stops between floors-

it said in the same update that the refurbishing contractor and the Council were UNABLE to say

whether the fire stops had been replaced- :post-4641-1156693976:

judging from how quickly it spread and how completely the entire building went up (and not just outside due to the cowling),

it would appear obvious that the fire stops had NOT been fitted in...

look for this to come out in the investigation; this will be a HUGE scandal all the way around

There have been complaints re fire stops from residents but it is clear the fire ran up the side of the building, in a matter of minutes the was fully ablaze, it was also noted the building was refurbished last year with cladding and new door and windows, suspect the fitted uPVC windows or plywood frames with a aluminium or stainless steel skin.

 

I have five tower blocks near where I live that have had a bad reputation for as long as I can remember mainly because of the type of tenants housed in them, two years ago work men started to cordon off the area an put scaffold up, I was hoping the contractor was going to be CDI (controlled Demolition Inc) unfortunately not, they also were covered in cladding but hopefully after the facts of the Grenfell Tower tragedy be come apparent their days will be numbered.      

nausea Gold Member

nausea

Posted
Posted

The BBC is reporting that previously high rise buildings in Australia, France, and the UAE, with a similar polyethylene core cladding to that used at Grenfell  Tower, had also been hit by fires that spread. Somebody's got some explaining to do. I wonder just how many of these plastic coated firetraps there are in the UK, and who authorised the use of this plastic as safe.

Tilacme Explorer Member

Tilacme

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Camelot said:

Is this dangerous polyethylene core cladding used in Thailand?

For all our sakes, I hope it isn't.

Panic not, I have taken the motocy around the village and inspected the powsoon houses and can confirm we are polyethylene clear.

Flustered Senior Member

Flustered

Posted
Posted

Watching the latest reports form the Fire Brigade they say they have probably identified the flat where the fire started but will not comment any further.

 

The we had a young Muslim girl being allowed to spread hate and fear shouting at the reporter (Victoria Derbyshire) that there were 50 dead babies and 100 dead bodies and that this was a revenge against Muslims and she had it all on her camera phone. Victoria Derbyshire looked baffled and unable to stop this girl spouting hatred 

 

Yes this was a predominantly Muslim occupied tower block and the chances are when the final reports are in it will be a fire due to the use of propane or some other gas/liquid gas cooker that got out of control and not a revenge attack on Muslims of any kind.

thaibeachlovers Star Member

thaibeachlovers

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Hi Jim. My daughter is at a station in south East london. And she was going there when i skyped her this morning. Do you know if any fire fighters have been harmed? She told me that the intel was that it was an electrical appliance, like a fridge.

I was going to say rubbish, but I googled before posting and there have been fires caused by fridges. Doesn't explain how it traveled from one flat to most of the building though.

 

What strikes me as extraordinary though, is that the fire brigade couldn't get fire hoses above half way ( going by the tv news ). Given the number of high rises in London, that is very strange, IMO.

Apparently the sprinklers didn't work inside.

Early days yet, but it's looking extremely bad for the council officer(s) in charge of this project. Going by the statements from residents, it might be manslaughter and corruption.

 

Up to 17 dead and counting. This is turning into a huge story, and even took Trump off Sky news.

In the jungle Gold Member

In the jungle

Posted
Posted

According to the BBC the cladding was "Reynobond" which can be specified either with a polyurethane core or a fire resistant core.

 

In this case somebody took the decision to go with the cheaper polyurethane core.  

 

It appears to me that the people responsible for the refurb had no real understanding of the principles that protected this building from fire as originally constructed.

 

Personally I don't think 'fire resistant' is good enough when the original exterior was fire proof.

 

 

thaibeachlovers Star Member

thaibeachlovers

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Don't want to get off topic, but his really gets me thinking about condos where. 

 

Have any similar incidents happened in Thailand? I am aware of structural building collapses, but has any building actually went up in flames in a similar manner?  

Older ones like I stayed in are just concrete/ plaster over brick so doubt it would happen to it or similar.

However, I see that new ones under construction all have insulation fitted under the outer cladding, so depending on the insulation...................................

Khon Kaen Dave Explorer Member

Khon Kaen Dave

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was going to say rubbish, but I googled before posting and there have been fires caused by fridges. Doesn't explain how it traveled from one flat to most of the building though.

 

What strikes me as extraordinary though, is that the fire brigade couldn't get fire hoses above half way ( going by the tv news ). Given the number of high rises in London, that is very strange, IMO.

Apparently the sprinklers didn't work inside.

Early days yet, but it's looking extremely bad for the council officer(s) in charge of this project. Going by the statements from residents, it might be manslaughter and corruption.

 

Up to 17 dead and counting. This is turning into a huge story, and even took Trump off Sky news.

That's why i posted about 'wet risers' I thought all buildings over 5 storeys had to have them. You know what a wet riser is? Another poster has just told me that they haven't been able to reach the top floors yet. You are right, about the huge story. I'm just wondering, if we will ever get the truth, and/or how much of this will be covered up.I am sure  that Grenfell house was a Bernard Sunley project when it was built. I would be interested to see the fire precaution drawings.

Khon Kaen Dave Explorer Member

Khon Kaen Dave

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Tilacme said:

I am quiet surprised how this is hitting home to a number of TV forum members, growing up in this estate, family and friends, even a LFB officer posting info first hand.  I started my career at the RBK&C and have some recollection of this estate.  Nearby Trellick Tower sticks in the mind as being the real problem block in those days and I see from aerial video that that is still standing.

Yes, my daughter went there yesterday, and i tried to skype her tonight, no reply.I dont think for one minute that anything has happened, she must be extremely busy.

sandrabbit Advanced Member

sandrabbit

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, zoza said:

i watched Corbyn this morning no mention of blame just spoke about the need help the people involved in  this disaster ,but tomorrow when the situation is under control the reasons this happened must be investigated.

but the lead story on my laptop (MSN) was Mays adviser

has sat on the report and the measures to stop this happening again ,it was sat on for four years . she seems to be running out of advisors to throw under the bus so I reckon the game is up yours. are you a trump fan.

RIP to all the people who died . and may the injured recover and make the people who allowed this to happen face justice.   

no I was watching it live on sky news and he was given leading questions but they were removed in later repeats of the interview. what has trump got to do with this, I think he's an acehole?.

Edited by sandrabbit
balo Ruby Member

balo

Posted
Posted
On 6/14/2017 at 1:49 PM, dabhand said:

Would not be surprised if the spread of the fire was enhanced by the recent upgrade which included installation of external cladding. Possibly same scenario as with the recent tower block fires in Dubai.

Bingo , they are already investigating if the fire was similar to that one in Dubai .  It's so insane if that's the case. What kind of idiot approved the use of material that are not considered fire safe ? 

 

 

balo Ruby Member

balo

Posted
Posted
On 6/14/2017 at 4:45 PM, 7by7 said:

One resident has just said that about 6 months ago there was a fire in a flat in a nearby block which did not have this cladding on the outside, and the fire was contained in the flat where it started.

 

And there you have it!  It's the cladding , they used cheap quality to save money .

Not a word on this on Sky News , and I've been watching for a few hours. 

balo Ruby Member

balo

Posted
Posted
On 6/14/2017 at 9:45 PM, JamJar said:

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20170614035707/http://wittukgroup.co.uk/grenfell-tower-london-w11-1tq-regeneration-project/

 

http://wittukgroup.co.uk/grenfell-tower-london-w11-1tq-regeneration-project/

 

Spot the difference. They took their page down today. Unluckily for them, the page has been archived. 

 

I get "Page not found" also on the archive page.  

balo Ruby Member

balo

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, cmsally said:

I'm still trying to make sense of why someone thinks its OK to coat a building in plastic !!

Reports are saying it took only 15 mins for the whole building to ignite

 

I guess UK now have to remove all the plastic from thousands of buildings, that will be a BIG job.  

7by7 Star Member

7by7

Posted
Posted

From 19/8/2016: Fire crews extinguish blaze at Shepherd's Bush tower block

 

Seems very similar; a fire started in one flat, and spread via the outside of the building.

 

But on that occasion the fire was brought under control within 2 hours.

 

Look at the difference between the video of that fire and the horrific scenes we all seen of the rapid spread of the Grenfell Tower fire:

 

The difference; this block was not cladded!

 

Basil B Ruby Member

Basil B

Posted
Posted
On 2017-6-14 at 4:05 PM, sandrabbit said:
On 2017-6-14 at 4:03 PM, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Jim, at times like this, when it serious, not just an exercise, we all appreciate the job you and your colleagues do. We know that every day on the job, could have an unexpected result.I have the greatest of respect for you and your brothers and sisters that are the LFB.My grandson has only me if any thing happened to my daughter and son in law.Please excuse people that make mistakes in their understanding. dont forget, we respect and admire what you do, all of you.

and i presumed there was a door entry system at ground level and the doorbells were there 

SR Not sure how your reply links to KKD's post?

 

If you think that the fire brigade would stand at the front door call up all the residents is just not practical, modern door entry systems are complicated not just a case of pushing one button one flat another for the next flat and then the next,  you have to punch in 3 or 4 buttons and wait for a reply or it times out before entering the next.  

Prbkk Platinum Member

Prbkk

Posted
Posted

 It's a very sad story, one of many tragedies, that the first victim has been identified as a Syrian refugee. This boy took risks to escape , found refuge and was welcomed, only to die in a preventable thing like this. Terribly sad thing.

JamJar Senior Member

JamJar

Posted
Posted

I've an idea. Why not do a big ACM cladding job, wherein you owe, say £1,000,000 to creditors? Then you put yourself in to administration; Pre-pack administration say, where you can then immediately purchase the distressed assets of the former company for a song. Therefore you have your company intact without the bothersome creditors and a lot more money for yourself.
 
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03244209/officers Harley Curtain Wall  (Old company)
 
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03991613/officers Harley Facades (New company)

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3802860/couple-whose-company-were-responsible-for-cladding-at-tragic-grenfell-tower-hide-away-in-1million-home/

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_(law)#Pre-pack_administration  Pre-pack administration

 

http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2015/09/14/cladding-firm-harley-curtain-wall-pre-packed/


Just an wild and crazy idea. No one would actually do such a thing.....even worse if something horrible, such a disastrous fire, would shine a light on such a tale of greed. Heaven forbid that such a thing could be true.

Airbagwill Silver Member

Airbagwill

Posted
Posted
On 2017-6-14 at 10:23 PM, sandrabbit said:

the thing is what I could see from the close up pictures it looked like they did actually have Rockwool insulation underneath the external cladding but it wouldn't do any good when everything else around it is burning.

Is been established that it wasn't standard Rockwool it was a polystyrene type insulation

In the jungle Gold Member

In the jungle

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, JamJar said:

 

 

Google still has it cached: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ym6NjHxAJyYJ:wittukgroup.co.uk/grenfell-tower-london-w11-1tq-regeneration-project/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

 

From that report:

 

"The £9.7million investment is a major commitment by the council and the TMO to regenerate the tower, with numerous improvements set to raise the value of the estate significantly"

 

Now why might a local authority want to do that?

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