Patong - The Wake

[NamKangMan]

16 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

"I was more questioning whether the "spoils" as your call it, will actually "spoil" anyone, or be a liability to them. "

 

What liability ? Free property. Can rent or sell at fire sale price. up to them. 

 

"To use your words, you will be leaving some "dead assets" and as you do not predict an upswing here, other assets you have may also end up "dead" as well. (once again, no pun intended) "

 

I will be dead. I don't give a rat's ass. Up to them.

 

"As you have said, other family members already have property, so it would appear not to be an issue in your case, and that of your wife's, and her family."

 

Correct. I again got lucky with a wife, no kids, family all working, land, car, house. No sick buffaloes   

 

"I thinking more along the lines of the guys with Thai girls from Issan, whom will most probably wish to sell up and move back to Issan.  I think these widows may not be left with the windfall that many expats think they are leaving, that's if the property can be sold, even at a fire sale.  Speaking to some of the older guys here, many seem to have belief that leaving a property on Phuket to their spouse will provide for them after their demise, and I'm not so sure it will. "

 

No idea. And I don't give a rat's ass. Up to them. They need to make a better life/death plan.

 

Sorry mods. Loosely within the OT. But we have drifted far and wide. Still a good topic. 

 

Edit - I want to correct that 'got lucky as wife no previous kids' comment. As I could not provide a baby, would have be better for us as a couple for my wife to have had a child or two, would have been a better option from my point of view.

 

"What liability ? Free property. Can rent or sell at fire sale price. up to them." - renting out requires "managing" the property, or dealing with an agent.  In short, some effort, hence, some "liability."  Selling requires a willing buyer, and even at fire sale prices, it may be hard to liquidate the properties.  This is the "liability" I allude to, not just property fees and taxes.

 

You have said yourself you are selective with your tenants and neither yourself, or your wife, could be bothered selling, and don't really care if the property sits vacant.  As you do not foresee an upswing here, I will go back to my question, what do you envisage will become of your properties upon your demise?  (I suppose I should also include the demise of your wife also, as it appears she will continue to reside here) 

 

In other words, do you think those who inherit the properties will be able to find tenants in the future, and should they want to sell, do you think they will be able to find a willing buyer, no matter what low price they list the property at?

 

******** Please speak generally LIK.  I do not wish to pry into your personal affairs, although I thank you for your candour.  ********

 

"Correct. I again got lucky with a wife, no kids, family all working, land, car, house. No sick buffaloes." - which I am sure has made life a lot easier than many others here. I am sure you know what I mean. ????

 

"No idea. And I don't give a rat's ass. Up to them. They need to make a better life/death plan." - sure, but in my opinion, with your circumstances, you are in the minority here, not the majority, and whilst we can not post on behalf of others, perhaps we can discuss in more general terms.

 

Once again, this is not a troll post.  I show an interest in the property market here, despite my lack of will to purchase here for reasons I have posted in other threads.

 

I see all the new buildings going up and properties that have been on the market for years, yes, years, and despite several price reductions, still remain on the market to this day. 

 

I have seen the huge change in the tourist demographic here, and I can't see the current tourists aspiring to retire here, thus buying a property.  For these reasons, I ask, in general terms, what legacy are those expats with property here leaving to their surviving partners or descendants, or both? 

 

Yes, many may say, "I'm dead. I don't care. I don't give a rat's ass.  Up to them." However, I do ask as a serious question, aimed more at those expats that truly believe they will be leaving behind a windfall for their spouse, many of whom are not from the Phuket Province.  

 

[LivinginKata]

NKM - not even going to quote your post. Read my words - I don't give a rat's ass. End of discussion. Have a nice day. Go fish some where else.

[xylophone]

28 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

I will go back to my question, what do you envisage will become of your properties upon your demise?  (I suppose I should also include the demise of your wife also, as it appears she will continue to reside here) 

 

In other words, do you think those who inherit the properties will be able to find tenants in the future, and should they want to sell, do you think they will be able to find a willing buyer, no matter what low price they list the property at?

It seems to me as though you are probing to see if you can prove your own agenda.

 

LiKs answers were how he manages and lives with his properties and were very forthright, and he is not really bothered in assisting you to come to the conclusion which you seek, which seems to be that even as an inheritance the properties will be worthless. 

 

It is his business what he does and doesn't do with his properties, but if you are trying to make the statement, "see I told you so that all property bought by farangs can become worthless here", then he, nor I (and probably others) will not have a bar of it.

 

What I will say is that, IMO, property here is overpriced and oversold and the resale values have dropped markedly, making many unsaleable, but I will add a caveat to that...…….everything has a price at one level or another, and many properties that I know of have far too high an asking price because the owners believe, mistakenly, that the property market here acts like it did in their home country, and it just is not the case.

 

I really did not like your post one bit if I am honest.

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

It seems to me as though you are probing to see if you can prove your own agenda.

 

LiKs answers were how he manages and lives with his properties and were very forthright, and he is not really bothered in assisting you to come to the conclusion which you seek, which seems to be that even as an inheritance the properties will be worthless. 

 

It is his business what he does and doesn't do with his properties, but if you are trying to make the statement, "see I told you so that all property bought by farangs can become worthless here", then he, nor I (and probably others) will not have a bar of it.

 

What I will say is that, IMO, property here is overpriced and oversold and the resale values have dropped markedly, making many unsaleable, but I will add a caveat to that...…….everything has a price at one level or another, and many properties that I know of have far too high an asking price because the owners believe, mistakenly, that the property market here acts like it did in their home country, and it just is not the case.

 

I really did not like your post one bit if I am honest.

 

No problem XP.  You are entitled to your opinion, as we all are.  I rarely resort to personal attacks or abuse, thus, I will address your post.

 

Firstly, I have no agenda.  I have not stated Phuket property is worthless, only that if it can not be liquidated, or rented out, does one leave behind an asset, or liability? I have repeatedly said it is not a troll or bait question, and that remains the same.

 

Indeed, LIK used the term "dead assets" to describe some of his properties.  Is a "dead asset" a liability or still an "asset?"  LIK has said it's "free property" and can be rented out or sold, but yet he states those properties are "dead."  How will those who inherit them bring them back to life? I am not asking for an answer to this question, just pointing out that some people here may be inheriting a problem.  Note the use of the words "some people" not LIK's wife or family. 

 

Like yourself, I also appreciate LIK's honesty, and you will see I have posted such.  However, you will also see I have even asked him to comment in more general terms, as I do not wish to pry, and I am not requesting personal information from him, or about his personal circumstances.  It is he who volunteered such information. 

 

The issue I raised in this long thread focuses more on the expats that have a belief that they will be leaving behind an inheritance windfall for their Thai wife, in the form of a property on Phuket.  LIK is not a good example of the typical expat I am referring to. He bought in early, and has several properties as a business. The properties owe him nothing, and he has made money from them.  The typical expat I refer to has one property, in which he, and a Thai wife reside, with the Thai wife typically not being from the Phuket Province.

 

Now, as LIK has said, "up to them" what they do with the property upon his demise, however, if said properties can not be rented out and can not be sold, where is said "windfall?"  Once again, not specifically in LIK's case, but in general terms.  Let me say that again, IN GENERAL TERMS. 

 

Does this explain the question am putting to the forum? 

 

Is it not possible that many Thai widows return to their home town with nothing but bragging rights that they own a property on Phuket?  They can't rent it out, and they can't sell it, but they can say they own a property on Phuket. 

 

Would such a property be a liability or an asset?  Some argue a free property is still an asset, even if it is a "dead asset."  Fees and taxes aside, yes, I would agree with that.  Once again, LIK is not a good example of the typical expat I am referring to, thus, I asked him to comment in more general terms. 

 

Another member praised LIK on the condition of his properties, and how well maintained they are, yet, they are "dead assets." 

 

Another member posted on how they are not "dead assets" but just need a little "resuscitation" to use that analogy. 

 

In my opinion, whether it's a "dead asset" or an "alive asset" if it can not be rented out, or liquidated, then I call it a "depreciating asset" and for an individual, a depreciating asset is as good as a liability, but this is just my opinion. 

 

Others have the opinion it's a free property so even if it was sold for 1 baht, that's 1 baht more than they had before, and I can see that point of view.   As you say, "everything has a price at one level or another."

 

Your post touched on the property market here.  I agree with your assessment of the market, and for the many reasons you mention, plus some others, property is simply not "moving' here, and with Phuket falling out of favor with westerners, for one reason or another, property is also becoming more difficult to rent out here.  Indeed, LIK has confirmed this with his own properties.

 

This is why when I chat to some of these expats that are "taking care of the missus" when they die by leaving her the house / condo / apartment etc, I really wonder if they have any idea of what is happening with the Phuket property market.  Perhaps they simply typify LIK's comment of, "I don't give a rat's ass."  

 

The thread is titled "Patong - The Wake" and I am quite sure the Phuket property market has been discussed somewhere within the previous 53 pages of this thread.  I do not see it as off topic to discuss the Phuket property market on this thread, especially as the term "wake" is used, which indicates someone, or something, has died.  

 

Many expats are happy in their property, whilst many expats are trying to sell their property here.  WE, that's ALL members of the Phuket TV Forum, will depart this world one day, and I merely pose the question to those expats who own property here, IN GENERAL TERMS, what do they envisage will become of their property upon their demise? 

 

I was hoping to discuss whether they think their wife will be able to sell or rent out the property, and digress from there. 

 

As a younger expat, I see the aging expat community here, and have already been requested to assist a friend's Thai wife on such matters, upon his demise.  A task that I have no magic wand to wave over the property, and either find a good long term tenant, or dispose of the property quickly, when that time comes.  That said, I suppose many expats here simply "Don't give a rat's ass" so, each to their own. 

 

[LivinginKata]

43 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Indeed, LIK used the term "dead assets" to describe some of his properties.  Is a "dead asset" a liability or still an "asset?"  LIK has said it's "free property" and can be rented out or sold, but yet he states those properties are "dead."  How will those who inherit them bring them back to life? I am not asking for an answer to this question, just pointing out that some people here may be inheriting a problem.  Note the use of the words "some people" not LIK's wife or family. 

 

 

 

Oh dear -  best I expand that term. Dead to me. Not worthless, and still making income. They are worth what the market dictates and we don't need to sell at that low price. The Income is better than selling.  No further discussion NKM.   

 

Edit - I am talking about our 2 Patong buildings. These days due to age and health issues I rarely travel out to Patong. Just not interested about Patong. But here in Kata we are expanding our businesses. But this is not a Kata topic.

[steelepulse]

1 hour ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Oh dear -  best I expand that term. Dead to me. Not worthless, and still making income. They are worth what the market dictates and we don't need to sell at that low price. The Income is better than selling.  No further discussion NKM.   

 

Edit - I am talking about our 2 Patong buildings. These days due to age and health issues I rarely travel out to Patong. Just not interested about Patong. But here in Kata we are expanding our businesses. But this is not a Kata topic.

Nor it is a phuket real estate is dead topic.  NKM, start a new thread if you wish to keep banging on about real estate and not Patong  and it's nightlife.

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, steelepulse said:

Nor it is a phuket real estate is dead topic.  NKM, start a new thread if you wish to keep banging on about real estate and not Patong  and it's nightlife.

 

This thread follows on from the "Patong is dead" thread. 

 

As mentioned, with 53 pages, I am sure Patong / Phuket property was raised previously on this thread.

 

It stands to reason that if "Patong is dead" and this thread is "Patong - The Wake" and Patong, and it's nightlife is dead, then also the property industry, whether that be commercial or residential, is also dead.  Thus, I don't see property as being off topic or this thread.

[LivinginKata]

Just want to report that in the past few weeks we have had a flood of long term rental enquirers in Patong leading to 5 tenants already installed. This is most unusual from our long years of experience. Only have 2 homes left for rent in Patong. Maybe Patong is not so dead. At least not for us .... ???? 

[Kopitiam]

2 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

Just want to report that in the past few weeks we have had a flood of long term rental enquirers in Patong leading to 5 tenants already installed. This is most unusual from our long years of experience. Only have 2 homes left for rent in Patong. Maybe Patong is not so dead. At least not for us .... ???? 

Would be interesting to know where these long term tenants are from and what are they doing in Phuket?

[LivinginKata]

18 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

Would be interesting to know where these long term tenants are from and what are they doing in Phuket?

 

All from different countries. Sorry, not giving any further details ... tenants deserve privacy.

[Mysterion]

2 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

Just want to report that in the past few weeks we have had a flood of long term rental enquirers in Patong leading to 5 tenants already installed. This is most unusual from our long years of experience. Only have 2 homes left for rent in Patong. Maybe Patong is not so dead. At least not for us .... ???? 

Great to hear that. Rumours of your so-called “dead assets” seem to have been greatly exaggerated.

 

Good to also know that west coast rental market is strong.

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

Just want to report that in the past few weeks we have had a flood of long term rental enquirers in Patong leading to 5 tenants already installed. This is most unusual from our long years of experience. Only have 2 homes left for rent in Patong. Maybe Patong is not so dead. At least not for us .... ???? 

Good to hear that your business is picking up LiK, always like to hear good news stories in Patong, especially from expats making a go of it here, like you.

 

My experiences here over the last two or three weeks when I have been out and about, don't lead me to believe that everything is hunky-dory here, but that it is "patchy" to say the least, or I could say that it varies almost on a daily basis but from my perspective what has been pretty noticeable is the falloff in Chinese visitors, with just a few small parties clogging up the Big C aisles, nowhere near what it was before.

Perhaps that has been counterbalanced by more Russians than I've seen since I first came here many years ago?

 

Feedback from my bar owning friends suggests that all is not well in this area and as I've often said, those who have recognised the changing demographics and adapted to it are doing the best. And a Soi which I have often posted about looked decidedly the worse for wear last night with many desperate girls and very few punters and I suspect more bars will be closing there soon.

 

The feedback from my contacts suggest that the property scene is also looking a bit a bit slow with perhaps the odd sale brightening up a salesperson's day, but not much else on the go apparently.

 

And just today, Jungceylon was a shadow of its former self with regards to shoppers and when the new Central opens up just opposite, that will spread folks even thinner on the ground.

 

So rejoice in your good luck and for the sakes of good folk like you, let's hope the high season gets a bit of a boost.

 

 

 

[Kopitiam]

2 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

All from different countries. Sorry, not giving any further details ... tenants deserve privacy.

I understand.  I don't mean to be nosey.  Just wondering whether there is a revival of western expats.

[LivinginKata]

18 hours ago, Kopitiam said:

I understand.  I don't mean to be nosey.  Just wondering whether there is a revival of western expats.

 

Oh dear - Australia, Italy, France, Russian, China (our first ever but we liked the couple so took them on).

 

Need to share a good laugh. My wife thought only one left in Patong to clean and make ready. I informed 2 vacant, burst her bubble. She completely forgot about a multi year tenant that left 3 months ago to go back home country. She was informed, even knows the guy was selling up his bar, met him and his Thai wife. Just a few minutes ago she walked into the house for the first time, phoned me telling my how dusty the place was. I laughed so hard.  

[NamKangMan]

On 11/24/2018 at 7:30 PM, LivinginKata said:

Just want to report that in the past few weeks we have had a flood of long term rental enquirers in Patong leading to 5 tenants already installed. This is most unusual from our long years of experience. Only have 2 homes left for rent in Patong. Maybe Patong is not so dead. At least not for us .... ???? 

 

Could there be a "Patong - The Resurrection" thread coming soon?  ????

[xylophone]

On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 6:49 PM, NamKangMan said:

 

Could there be a "Patong - The Resurrection" thread coming soon?  ????

Well, I saw something that I have never seen before here, as I was on my way out last night.

 

Opposite the bottom of my road, there is a hotel, and attached to the outside of the top of the dining area is a small overhang which serves as a place where motorbike taxi drivers can sit waiting for customers, and to help m/c taxi drivers they have placed a round concrete table and a few chairs so that they can use it as a resting/eating place.

 

Imagine my surprise then when last night I noticed there was only one m/c taxi driver sitting next to the table, not actually at it, because he couldn’t, as two Russian couples were sat at this table, in the chairs, eating food out of plastic bags, and the food had just been purchased from the Family Mart opposite!

 

Also on the table was a half full bottle of what looked like alcohol of some description, although no label on the bottle.

 

So these cheapskates were sitting in the allocated m/c taxi drivers seats and at their table, just a couple of metres away from a busy road, eating and drinking that which they had bought from the local Family Mart…………..quality tourists indeed.

 

My favourite Italian restaurant was relatively busy, which is always good to see, although the little bar opposite had no customers in it whatsoever for the two hours I spent at the restaurant.

 

Bangla was busy but with the usual movement of bodies wandering up and down, rather than frequenting the many bars, and as I was sat at a friend’s bar watching the world go by he commented on the groups who were walking by: – a large group of Chinese, a large family group of Indians, a group of about eight Indian men and smaller groups of Chinese, along with the “usual suspects”.

 

Some of the bars were reasonably busy, but as this is now officially the “high season” the patronage is not what the owners were hoping for at this particular time. Indeed another bar has had its last night in Soi Freedom where the owners have called it a day as it just wasn’t profitable and IMO this could well be one of many in this situation. This and other bars had been hoping for the return of a live band which was supposed to be around mid-November, to help increase patronage, but as with many promises in this soi, it didn’t happen.

 

Rumours abound as to what is “going to happen” as regards the party centre of Patong,…………”Taipan is closing and that whole area is being redeveloped” and Seduction will be moving across the road to where the resurrected Tiger now stands and so on, but there again there have been so many rumours over the years that one has to dismiss them until something actually happens (seems common sense doesn’t it).

 

What does seem pretty obvious is despite the fact that “official numbers” of tourists are being touted as on the increase, this is not that obvious, nor is the spend flowing through to many businesses here and as an example, just yesterday the majority of restaurants in Jungceylon restaurant alley were sparsely populated and staff I know who work in some of these, were bemoaning the fact that business was very quiet.

 

The small but very busy Boots store in Jungceylon has now closed and is using the space in the centre as a type of store whilst they wait for a move to the new Central, in February, but again the girls working there said that customers had been almost non-existent for some while now.

 

And whilst the Chinese hordes seem to have abated somewhat, the Indian visitors have increased as have the Russians, none of whom will add much to the bottom line of the medium to small size businesses, if indeed they will add much to the bottom line of any business.

 

My overall impression, and those that I get from business owners here, is that this is going to be one hell of a difficult period for them and as if to reflect that, a friend is selling their small business because it is not profitable and their staff are unreliable and as already mentioned, some bars have closed and others are struggling.

 

Meanwhile work is progressing very slowly on the Italian restaurant which has been sold, and almost gutted, in Soi Banzaan and quite what it is going to turn out as being, I’m not sure.

 

Having said that, the small “Experimental Cocktail Bar” which adjoins another roller blind bar and which failed the first time round (so not much of a successful experiment) has been bought by another hopeful; other roller blind shops continue to have the “for rent/lease” signs displayed on them, with some being like this for many, many months.

 

For high season, there are some extremely low room rates for those who are on a budget, starting around 600 baht a night.

 

So a mixed bag all round, although one could argue that most of the signs are pointing towards a very poor and difficult high season for many.

 

[billythehat]

9 hours ago, xylophone said:

Some of the bars were reasonably busy, but as this is now officially the “high season” the patronage is not what the owners were hoping for at this particular time.

Hmmmm…I would comment here that most folk (Europeans) who have to work in December cannot actually come over until at least 1 week before crimbo and normally have to return to Outer Earth, say, in the first week in January. So possibly a small boost for local businesses for that period but still not long enough to cover crippling losses in slack periods. What is not often covered is the effect on the supply chain connected with running any business; a typical instance when A supplies B who supplies C etc. When the top card falls over the rest can/usually fail too with the consequent misery to the folk and businesses that support that chain, particularly the small hotel/guest house sector.

[Lashay]

While Nov 1 is officially start of high season, it has not been real start (especially for nightlife) for at least a half a decade.

 

Few days before xmas is real start of high, and 28th dec, peak season.

 

But have noticed over last two years high seems to extending a bit on the other end. Did not notice major drop last year until mid/late June where before it was alway straight after songkran.

[xylophone]

11 hours ago, Lashay said:

While Nov 1 is officially start of high season, it has not been real start (especially for nightlife) for at least a half a decade.

 

Few days before xmas is real start of high, and 28th dec, peak season.

 

But have noticed over last two years high seems to extending a bit on the other end. Did not notice major drop last year until mid/late June where before it was alway straight after songkran.

Agree in the main with that statement Lashay, but have noticed that the start "shortfall" is not compensated for fully at the other end, so high season, IMO, has been getting shorter and to put further pressure on those in the "entertainment" sector, not as much being spent (demographics etc) and low season really is "low".

 

It is tough out there for many.

[xylophone]

As other posters have noted, it's the spending thing that seems to be down for many small businesses this year, even though I would add that in my opinion, the numbers are down also, even though last night out in Bangla, the place was crowded with "walkers/sightseers", but spending money??

 

Big C has its moments, and I think the turnover there is much the same as it was last year, with perhaps the Chinese contingent being a little less, however being made up for by more Russians and I witnessed a little spectacle which made me wonder about the mentality of some folk……at the entrances to Big C there are store personnel who will put some tape around the openings to the bags one is carrying, this in an attempt to stop shoplifting (along with a few staff watching down the aisles of the cosmetics and beauty products because the Chinese have a habit of removing tops and coverings of items to be able to smell and look at them and taste the toothpaste) and this is all well and good for most people who duly offer their bags for the tape to be applied.

 

On this occasion a young Russian couple were stopped by the staff member to apply the tape and the girl refused to let her do this, making a bit of a fuss about it, so her boyfriend got hold of the bag she was carrying and offered it to the tape lady, only to have his girlfriend throw a tantrum, just like a spoilt kid would do, before grabbing the bags and storming out of the store!

 

The restaurants in the Jungceylon restaurant strip have been quiet for many days now, as have the stores in Jungceylon itself, and last night on the way to Bangla, the restaurants in Nanai Road, were also quiet with no one in Dons, Da Moreno about 25% occupied and other bars and eateries sparsely populated.

 

The Italian restaurant in Soi Banzaan had no one in it at 8:15 PM and the Chinese restaurant a little further down and just three people in it. And as if to carry this theme on, my usual Italian restaurant was very slow, with the restaurant next door having just two customers in it, and the bar opposite having three customers in it.

 

There would be many more examples I could quote, but I think the point has been made.

 

The friend who has walked away from his bar with nothing in his pocket from this "business venture" has also pointed out that other bars in that Soi are struggling for business, with a few more being empty.

 

But what of those folks who were milling up and down Bangla, well, people watching is intriguing to say the least, and there were many groups of Chinese, although these supposedly have been falling off of late, and groups of Indians so the "masala express airline" seems to be doing good business.........and so that I can dispel a much quoted and supposed "urban myth" I saw a group of four Indian guys walking along with two of them carrying bottles of beer and they stopped and passed the beers around so that they could all drink from the two bottles! Don't think these guys would be adding much to the bottom line of the businesses here.

 

Bangla is what Bangla is and the short-time rooms in Soi Sea Dragon were busy enough with attractive young ladies persuading their newfound catches, which were mainly younger guys, that this was the best thing to do for a quickie, rather than going back to the guys room, which they do mainly because as soon as this little escapade is over they are back on Bangla looking for another catch.

 

Saw just a few of the old-fashioned bar mongers, but in the main the groups were of the younger set and that would probably explain why places like New York, Monsoon, Red Hot and the like were busy and have been for a while now.

 

Mentioning Red Hot, I got up and sang a few songs with the group, and a great group they are too, and whereas previously I had done this, I was singing to a large contingent of Russians, but this time the Indians were in ascendance, and although the place was busy, it was nowhere near as busy as previous visits.

 

I ended up going to a bar called Hippie Road, off Soi Sansabi and beyond a few of the small bars which have sprung up there, and it was a bit of a “bikie bar” by all accounts, however although it was a bit “raw” and the band were playing some pretty heavy rock, it was friendly enough place and had about 20+ people in it. However, as I have the willpower of a tame rabbit, I sang a couple more songs and had a few more drinks and didn’t get home till about 3 AM in the morning and felt a little worse for wear the next day!!

 

Jumping around a bit now, and just a few days ago I took the car for a drive south to Chalong and was held up behind a few other cars because the Chinese duo on the scooter in front was all over the place, almost wandering from the left side to the middle of the road for seemingly no rhyme nor reason, other than the fact they probably have never driven a scooter before – – very dangerous and it wasn't more than a few minutes after that I came across a couple more like this and gingerly overtook them, giving them a wide berth.

 

And just to add to the fun, and give the Thai drivers something to aim at, two new pedestrian crossings have been added around Patong, but of course they have different meanings for different nationalities, whereas the foreigners see it as a place to safely cross the road, the Thai drivers see it as a place to try to disable a few pedestrians, mainly because they never been taught what these things are for I would suppose?

 

So is Patong dying, NO; is Patong thriving, NO, not in my opinion and those others in business that I know; is Patong attracting the right sort of visitors, NO from what I have seen………so whilst this is not a wake, it shouldn’t be a celebration either. 

 

 

 

 

[NamKangMan]

On 12/3/2018 at 3:45 AM, Lashay said:

While Nov 1 is officially start of high season, it has not been real start (especially for nightlife) for at least a half a decade.

 

Few days before xmas is real start of high, and 28th dec, peak season.

 

But have noticed over last two years high seems to extending a bit on the other end. Did not notice major drop last year until mid/late June where before it was alway straight after songkran.

 

"Few days before xmas is real start of high, and 28th dec, peak season." - this period has always traditionally been known as the "peak season." 

 

The "season" from 1st Nov to the end of Songkran WAS known as the high season. 

 

As I have said in the past, there will be no high season on Phuket in the future, actually, in my opinion, it's gone already. It will be / has been replaced by a steady flow of package holiday makers from developing economies, all year round. 

 

These numbers will be constant, throughout the year, thus negating the traditional terms of "high season" and "low season" with the peak season having some western tourists, usually during the usual festive season European holiday period, but overall, baht revenue will be down, way down, when compared to previous years, when western tourists were frequenting Phuket.

 

The constant large numbers of Chinese, Indians, and Russians, "iron out" the traditional "seasons" but without them spending, Phuket is destined for low low seasons, by baht revenue, from this demographic. 

 

Perhaps there could be the "RIP High Season" thread.  ????

 

 

[NamKangMan]

 

@ XP.

 

Once again, good observations, and some well authored posts.

 

My observations, and information from business owners, are the same as yourself.

 

Over the years, it has always a talking point on this forum, and in expat discussions, whether a current high season was busier or quieter than past high seasons.

 

For some of the reasons you mentioned in your recent posts, I actually predict this "high season" will see the most establishments close, than any other season before, tsunami aside.  That's not a "dome and gloom" statement.  That's an economic prediction. 

 

What many have known here, and for many years, is now finally bare to see.  Phuket is now seeing the real impact of what happens when criminals, disguised as "influential people" are put in charge of administering the tourism industry on the island.  

 

For decades, they have treated tourists to Phuket with contempt.  As for business owners, they increased rents on commercial premises to ridiculous levels, thus making Phuket the most expensive tourist destination in South East Asia, Singapore aside.  They withheld proper public transport.  They skimmed budgets with saw infrastructure crumble.  They allowed over development on a massive scale.  They transferred any police who did not obey them.  They ignored safety standards that saw many tourists die on ther holiday.  Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. 

 

Phuket had been heading down this road for some years, and in my opinion, has now arrived at the destination it was being steered in. 

 

In many ways, Phuket is like the Nokia company.  How do you have such a huge share of the western tourism market, and lose it????

[DrDave]

I'd submit that the only thing that defines "high season" versus "low season" is the change in room rates charged by the major hotels. Rates typically raise significantly effective November 1st, before dropping at the end of April.

As we all know, there's usually not much of an improvement in November and December's weather compared to earlier months, making the November 1st start date for high season nothing more than a reason to increase rates.

[phuketrichard]

On 12/2/2018 at 11:45 PM, Lashay said:

While Nov 1 is officially start of high season, it has not been real start (especially for nightlife) for at least a half a decade.

 

Few days before xmas is real start of high, and 28th dec, peak season.

 

But have noticed over last two years high seems to extending a bit on the other end. Did not notice major drop last year until mid/late June where before it was alway straight after songkran.

High season starts Nov 20th

Peak season; Dec 21st-Jan 4th and Feb 5th-12th ( Year of the pig--Chinese new years)

High season; Jan 5th- April 17th this year ( after Songkran)

I have noticed the past week traffic up, crowds on the beach as well,

Even Junk Ceylon for the fist time in 8 months or so seems to have more Farangs than Chinese

[xylophone]

21 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

I have noticed the past week traffic up, crowds on the beach as well,

Even Junk Ceylon for the fist time in 8 months or so seems to have more Farangs than Chinese

I would say that the traffic has been steadily increasing for a couple of months now, even though that is fairly hard to determine exactly, mainly because the new middle road can often be full of stationary traffic from the traffic lights in Phra Baramee back down to the "temporary" small roundabout at the south end of Patong at any time, with peak-time around the 6 PM mark!

 

Overall though, I would say your observations are correct, this especially with the amount of idiots on scooters around the place.

 

Yesterday in Jungceylon there was a large influx of Chinese, which outnumbered just about every other nationality, but again that has been sporadic of late – – more Russians certainly these days.

 

Having said all of that, the items that both of those races were purchasing would hardly make their mark on the bottom line with regards to profitability!! 

[LivinginKata]

Just to report we are all full at our Patong rental homes. Crazy really. All old friends or friends of friends. Having to tell others no room at the inn, So much for Patong is Dead article.

 

Also Kata crazy busy for us. Our 2 shops going full blast and all rental vehicles out. 

[xylophone]

17 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

Just to report we are all full at our Patong rental homes. Crazy really. All old friends or friends of friends. Having to tell others no room at the inn, So much for Patong is Dead article.

 

Also Kata crazy busy for us. Our 2 shops going full blast and all rental vehicles out. 

Happy for you LiK, however the "old friends or friends of friends" scenario may not be playing out Phuket-wide.

 

Three small businesses over the last few days have said to me that this is still "the low season" for them; so sporadic at best, it would seem?

 

And have seen small shops closing in Patong, Kathu and Phuket.

[LivinginKata]

16 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Happy for you LiK, however the "old friends or friends of friends" scenario may not be playing out Phuket-wide.

 

Three small businesses over the last few days have said to me that this is still "the low season" for them; so sporadic at best, it would seem?

 

And have seen small shops closing in Patong, Kathu and Phuket.

 

I agree with you. We have had 4 lean years with long stays leaving and no refills. Just like that over last 3 months fill up with long stays. I can't fathom it. For sure we have a very narrow niche market and hardly typical.

 

Edit - just my very small snap shot of our 20 years old business in Patong.  

[xylophone]

I have noticed other threads which have discussed the situation in Patong/Phuket with regards to numbers/tourists and so on, with one being labelled something like, "Phuket is as dead as a dodo" and this contains arguments for and against this statement, this especially in light of what TAT have issued just recently.

 

I can only comment on what I see and what I hear from small business owners, and readers of this thread will know that many bars are struggling out there, but that was signalled a few years ago, so shouldn't come as a surprise, but what does surprise me is the variety and type of small businesses which are suffering. For example a restaurant near the busy Bangla Road area is 60% down on last year's turnover; and a lady I know who has worked in a popular large pub here has said that this is the quietest she has ever known it over the five years she has worked there.......and this is repeated time and time again.

 

Indeed there is a largish 30 plus room hotel just across the way from me which would be about 30% occupied at this time, with another much larger hotel consisting of around 60 plus rooms plus which is in the same bracket as regards occupancy rate, so the occupancy stats are not just associated with the closing of small boutique type guesthouse/hotels, but are evident in others, much larger and someone posted that one of the larger more prestigious hotels is suffering a 30% reduction in occupancy rate over last year.

 

The comments that there are more people around than "before" is probably true and I don't believe that these people are the spending type that will improve the situation here for many – – quantity over quality by the look of it. 

 

It also has to be remembered that Patong being seasonal, attracts more Thai and other foreign workers who flock here for the "tourist season" and of course to work on the developments which are forever ongoing here, whether they are needed or not (witness the empty rooms in many of the developments, or indeed the for sale/rent signs outside of the smaller units).

 

So one could say that the jury is out on the state of Patong at this moment in time and my venture out last night would tend to support this, with plenty of people milling around Bangla and its environs, a few of the bars busy and many not. One bar owner friend of a very popular bar said that everything was deadly quiet until about 10 pm and then it started to fill up just a little bit, gradually increasing till about midnight and then dropping off again – – hardly enough custom to keep afloat a large bar with its staff and overheads, which also opens in the afternoons.

 

Then there are the diehards some of whom have come back for their seasonal break and I notice quite a few farangs with T-shirts stretched over their extended bellies, sitting in small bars from 11 am onwards, and still there four hours later, which is something I have never really figured out – – why would someone come on holiday here to sit in a bar, next to a busy road just to drink beer??

 

Even Red Hot bar which has been packed at times of late, was not quite as busy as in the past but did have an eclectic mix of enthusiastic customers (Russian, Norwegians, Brits, Aussies and Italians to name but a few), mainly because the band is so good, and I enjoy the place because of the atmosphere and the fact that the band lets me sing a few songs, which always seem to go down well and that leads me onto another point which I will get into further on.

 

A slight detour from the usual thread because yesterday was a day of unusual events which I will recount.

 

Firstly I met up with a married couple, from my country who post on here under one name and who had been in touch to say that we should catch up if possible, so we did. And what a delightful afternoon it was because they are lovely people who spend a good part of the year here and have done for some time, as well as travelling around, so we had a lot to talk about, and talk we did (or perhaps I did most of it?).

 

Of course the Thaivisa forum was discussed and in particular this thread, and they agreed with the general consensus that Patong is struggling and has not done anything for itself with regards to improving its quality experience or its reputation, let alone the type of tourists it encourages now.

 

They also recounted their experience just a week or so ago when they caught up with other friends here and these friends were telling them about their experience in Bangla where they went into a bar and saw an old Kiwi guy get up and rattle off some rock songs, which they thought were great, and of course this couple had to tell them that they were about to meet up with me for a coffee/tea and they would pass on their compliments – – a small world indeed.

 

We have agreed to stay in touch and catch up again, and that would be lovely.

 

Then I'd had a suggestion from another forum member that we should catch up as he was coming to Patong for a holiday, so I arranged to meet him in my favourite Italian restaurant last night and we had an enjoyable meal and chatted about all and sundry. Luckily enough he was not a great wine drinker so I was able to polish off the vast majority of the bottle which I took along!

 

He had some places to go and friends to meet so we parted company and bumped into one another a little later and again that was an enjoyable meeting, and we will catch up again whilst he's here.

 

After sharing a drink with friends I shot up to Red Hot, noticing on the way that Bangla was not as busy as it had been although it was not emptying out, one could certainly see the spaces. Anyway the band invited me up to sing a few songs, and I gladly obliged because it's something I enjoy doing, and the reception from the crowd was very good, which obviously helps with my ego, and at 71 years of age I need all the help I can get!

 

After I had got down from the stage and made my way back to my little table and my drink, I was surrounded by a group of older Norwegian guys who thought that my performance was great and were offering to buy me drinks, but I tried to take it a little easy on the booze. However there was one guy who took such a liking to my singing that he confessed it was some of the best that he'd ever heard in his life and of course I wondered at this particular time if there was some sort of ulterior motive to this, but it appears there wasn't.

 

In fact he asked me to go and sing some songs in his other favourite bar, New York bar and although I was reluctant at first, he was very persuasive, so down to the bar we went.

 

Despite the fact that he is well-known at the bar, he couldn't persuade anyone, even the manager to let me get up and sing just one song, and he was a little annoyed at this and the bar manager became annoyed also with his persistence, so we decided to cut our losses and head back to Red Hot where he wanted me to sing again, whilst depositing a small wad of cash in my hand, for my singing and for my trouble he said.

 

I was reluctant to take this because it just is not in my nature to do so, but he insisted and said that he would be offended if I gave it back, which I tried to do on a number of occasions.

 

Anyway I got to sing another song and he liked it very much and after another chat in which he was full of praise for my singing, he went on his way to catch up with his friends who had left to go elsewhere, and I decided that I needed to be heading home, which I did with one of my friendly motorbike taxi drivers, who always do their best to look after me when I want to get back home.

 

Travelling at a slowish pace down Nanai road at about 2 am, we encountered a police checkpoint and I was a bit worried because the motorbike taxi driver wasn't wearing a helmet (neither was I for that matter) however he was able to drive straight through with no problems whatsoever.

 

An enjoyable night after a day of unusual yet great encounters.
 

[xylophone]

On 12/15/2018 at 8:35 PM, NamKangMan said:

The constant large numbers of Chinese, Indians, and Russians, "iron out" the traditional "seasons" but without them spending, Phuket is destined for low low seasons, by baht revenue, from this demographic. 

I think my words have come back to haunt me and your post has prompted me to post this.

 

A month or so ago I suggested that the numbers of Chinese tourists was noticeably down and others have also posted likewise, and I alluded to the same in my previous post, however today was a day when Patong had a Chinese invasion.........they were everywhere, a bit like ants swarming.

 

It was almost as if a score of jumbo jets had landed and disgorged the contents, mainly towards the venue of Patong – – Big C today was crowded with Chinese buying their usual junk (sorry about the pun), clogging up the aisles and just about everywhere else that could be clogged up, with nary a thought for other shoppers.

 

Although the Siam basement in Jungceylon wasn't too bad, the food hall was a sight to behold; the place was almost packed with Chinese, with just a couple of farangs in sight and something which made me chuckle, a table around which sat six Indians, all asleep and either slumped in the chair or with head on the table! Obviously learnt from the Chinese how to sleep in busy and crowded places on uncomfortable chairs.