Patong - The Wake

[xylophone]

19 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

Much the same happened to Don out at Rawai, he gave his staff ever sort of benifit, health, education ... yet they all s..t on him. I think he left Phuket quite disgruntled. Moved to Chiang Rai where he always had his Don's Foods produce business.

I visited Don's place a few times and it seems as though he was unhappy about the Rawai experience towards the end. I did hear that it was because of a couple of break-ins, but again, only hearsay?

[happyas]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

If we are thinking about the same guy, I believe you'll find he still has a beachside bar/restaurant just opposite and beachside of the end of Sawatdirak road??

 Thanks xy.

I misspelled it Chez [not ches] Bernard is the one.

I just google it and yes, he is still operating at Kalim.

Nothing like his pre tsunami very basic place  which featured a few old logs around a fair sized tree and right on the beach near opp Bangla Rd

That's what appealed back then.

He was a long haired guy and IIRC practiced martial arts.

Good to hear he is still operating, his food was good.

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, happyas said:

He was a long haired guy and IIRC practiced martial arts.

According to a friend he also plays tennis nowadays!

[DrDave]

5 hours ago, xylophone said:

I visited Don's place a few times and it seems as though he was unhappy about the Rawai experience towards the end. I did hear that it was because of a couple of break-ins, but again, only hearsay?

According to Don's book ("Merchant of the Orient"), he closed Don's Mall in Rawai for a number of reasons, including:

employee theft, competition from a new western products store in Chalong (Villa Mkt?), a mountain of debt and a decline in business due to the military coup and area bars offering free food to customers.

An interesting character (and book!)

[happyas]

39 minutes ago, xylophone said:

According to a friend he also plays tennis nowadays!

 He was, back in late '90's a very athletic looking guy..good for him to not let himself fall apart.

 

I brought him/his restaurant up initially, because he must be one of the very few western businessmen who is still operating in spite of a multitude of reasons not to be in Patong.

 

IIRC he had been open at least 10 years already when i frequented the area, so maybe he is established some 30 years.

 

 That's a pretty big milestone if correct.

 

 

[xylophone]

Jumping around a bit here, however I'm sure the OP won't mind too much..........

 

Ventured down to Bangla Road this afternoon to go for a foot massage in Soi Patong Resort and something I hadn't noticed in my recent forays was the extent of the new building going on, this especially taking in the site of the other white elephant, which was built alongside of the new Tiger complex and never took off, plus another huge block of land and what were once shops – – so much so that this newly cleared site actually comes up to and fronts Rat-u-Thit road opposite the Starbucks at the front of Jungceylon.

 

I asked a security guard nearby if he knew what was going there and he said it was another Central Plaza and when I mentioned, "Robinsons" he also said yes and pointed to the other cleared block across the road, so I never really did get a clear idea!

 

It's amazing the things that you notice during the daylight that you never notice in the evening; one being the size of that new building site and the other being the dilapidated state of Bangla Road itself, not to mention the poor condition of many of the bars and buildings.

 

I stopped and said hello to the owner of my favourite restaurant, Salute, in Soi Patong Resort and noticed that the large restaurant which used to be called "Thai Basil" has a new for sale sign plastered across it. Previously it was advertised at 3.3 million baht with rent of 125,000 baht per month, but now that had been dropped to.1.5 million baht for a quick sale, however the rent is only paid up until March of next year, so someone will have to negotiate a new lease by the looks of things.

 

In all honesty I could never understand why that restaurant opened up in the first place because it was a sort of upmarket Thai restaurant and prices matched that positioning, whereas similar Thai food could be purchased in very close proximity in any number of places for about a third of the price, so in my opinion it was destined to failure from day one?? Having said that, it is a large restaurant and is in a good position with about seven other restaurants nearby, so a different sort of restaurant in a place like that could well be okay, sort of a "restaurant strip/alley" if you like..........but then this being Patong, who knows?

 

Did see a couple of "outside people chasers" (OPCs) and even got stopped by one, this means that the "timeshare/fractional ownership/whatever they're called these days" property touts are still about and indeed I saw a couple just the other day in Karon and they had stopped holidaymakers within about 100 metres of one another. I wonder if they're still doing the fake scratch-it cards routine (everyone a winner).

 

And something I haven't experienced for a while.........the disgusting smell of sewage or similar emanating from a couple of drains, reminding me that I'm still in a place where the infrastructure is definitely Third World and/or quite possibly belongs to the Middle Ages!

[LivinginKata]

54 minutes ago, DrDave said:

According to Don's book ("Merchant of the Orient"), he closed Don's Mall in Rawai for a number of reasons, including:

employee theft, competition from a new western products store in Chalong (Villa Mkt?), a mountain of debt and a decline in business due to the military coup and area bars offering free food to customers.

An interesting character (and book!)

 

For sure staff ripping him was a big problem. Competition from Villa - no way as his small scale shop was in the junior league and Villa not even open when he was in decline. I can believe he had a mountain of debt as his new mall was large and nicely built. I could not understand such a big upscale move from his small Thai style cafe. Think he dumped his lady so problems there.

[DrDave]

11 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

For sure staff ripping him was a big problem. Competition from Villa - no way as his small scale shop was in the junior league and Villa not even open when he decided.  I can believe he had a mountain of debt as his new mall was large and nicely built. I could not understand such a big upscale move from his small Thai style cafe. Think he dumped his lady so problems there.

Employee theft/embezzlement was a big contributor to his debt. He was being scammed by employees who ordered product from his vendors, never entered it in the books, and then sold the product on the outside. He never knew how much he owed his vendors until it was too late. A lot of his debt was to his vendors, but I believe he also had outstanding loans against the property.

 

Not sure which happened first: Don's closure or the opening of Villa Mkt in Chalong. Here's a quote from the book:

"The big stores were moving into Phuket and one in the Chalong Bay area that started to pull business from us."

 

.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, DrDave said:

According to Don's book ("Merchant of the Orient"), he closed Don's Mall in Rawai for a number of reasons, including:

employee theft, competition from a new western products store in Chalong (Villa Mkt?), a mountain of debt and a decline in business due to the military coup and area bars offering free food to customers.

An interesting character (and book!)

I think some of those arguments are valid.

[stevenl]

41 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

For sure staff ripping him was a big problem. Competition from Villa - no way as his small scale shop was in the junior league and Villa not even open when he was in decline. I can believe he had a mountain of debt as his new mall was large and nicely built. I could not understand such a big upscale move from his small Thai style cafe. Think he dumped his lady so problems there.

Agree, imo the move was his real downfall, he never managed to get the same cozy atmosphere back in the new place, while his expenses skyrocketed (he should have known about that ?).

[LivinginKata]

9 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Agree, imo the move was his real downfall, he never managed to get the same cozy atmosphere back in the new place, while his expenses skyrocketed (he should have known about that ?).

Nice pun there stevenl. I wonder how many reader will twig.

[phuketrichard]

22 hours ago, happyas said:

I used to spend a lot of time relaxing on the beach in front of  Ches Bernards ? and eating good food right on the beach served from his place..great relaxed atmosphere.

 

Often wonder what happened to him as his restaurant must have been totally demolished in 2004.

 

Did he rebuild or just move on?

Bernard is still there, as is But ( took it over from Wood) who owns the sabai restaurant next door.

used to play tennis with Bernard , late 80's but it got to be no fun, typical french guy when he got upset!!

We used to keep ur windsurfers at Woods place in the 80's

[KarenBravo]

15 hours ago, stevenl said:

Agree, imo the move was his real downfall, he never managed to get the same cozy atmosphere back in the new place, while his expenses skyrocketed (he should have known about that ?).

Yes, his first place, just around the corner was a success. Cheap draft beer plus good, reasonably priced food brought the customers in........especially the Yachties. He had the right idea at the right time with no competitors. I'm sure Don knew that this just couldn't last, thus the new complex including his house.

I'm afraid that Don also has to take some of the blame for the new restaurant. Many times he just wasn't there to oversee things. He would be away for days at a time. Maybe that was during missus problems.

He's happy living up north now, so, "all's well that ends well".

[xylophone]

On 7/22/2017 at 10:54 PM, LivinginKata said:

 

Not really true. All my guests/tenants had their own transport, never used taxis.

 

Our business has been 'decimated' by over development in the middle road, much cheaper prices by desperate operators (not even owners), offering very low room rates just to cover their immediate monthy bills. I have no idea how this pricing can be sustained given new build and land costs, and greedy builder owners. Oh well ... 

I noticed another small guest house which had just closed and was for sale/lease and it brought to mind this post of your LiK, this especially after I visited my Thai lady friends guesthouse/hotel a couple of days ago and found it to be in a pretty sorry state, whereas a few close by were showing accelerated age (greedy builder owners scrimping on quality, finish and materials).

 

I think her hotel was built (seven years or so ago?) along with quite a few others when new middle road was underway and I remember thinking then that surely this was overkill for a place which never seemed stretched for accommodation and indeed no one I had ever met had struggled to find some sort of accommodation here.

 

I have to agree with your comments because the likes of these along with many other similar ones built in the middle road, as well as a few others cropping up in various places, really did result in some desperate measures as regards pricing. And I seem to recall just a year or so ago commenting on the fact that a larger hotel in middle road, roughly opposite the Art condominiums had a special on for room nights at 248 baht, and now of course we have the situation where some smaller places are advertising rooms at the equivalent of 167 baht per night.

 

As DrDave has said, "that one only needs to open their eyes and see the number of bars, restaurants and guesthouses that are constantly turning over. These businesses owners are likely not selling because they're making money hand over fist. As has been mentioned many times before, Patong has a continuous cycle of business purchase and failure. Someone is always at the ready to buy a failed business which starts the cycle over again".

 

I really don't see how this cycle can keep repeating itself because somewhere along the line someone is going to cotton on to the fact that many of them are not viable business propositions any more, and after having destroyed the businesses of those folk who saw potential in the place, only to have it ripped from under their feet by greed, lack of planning and corruption, what then?
 

[billythehat]

On ‎25‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 11:33 AM, xylophone said:

I noticed another small guest house which had just closed and was for sale/lease and it brought to mind this post of your LiK, this especially after I visited my Thai lady friends guesthouse/hotel a couple of days ago and found it to be in a pretty sorry state, whereas a few close by were showing accelerated age (greedy builder owners scrimping on quality, finish and materials).

 

I think her hotel was built (seven years or so ago?) along with quite a few others when new middle road was underway and I remember thinking then that surely this was overkill for a place which never seemed stretched for accommodation and indeed no one I had ever met had struggled to find some sort of accommodation here.

 

I have to agree with your comments because the likes of these along with many other similar ones built in the middle road, as well as a few others cropping up in various places, really did result in some desperate measures as regards pricing. And I seem to recall just a year or so ago commenting on the fact that a larger hotel in middle road, roughly opposite the Art condominiums had a special on for room nights at 248 baht, and now of course we have the situation where some smaller places are advertising rooms at the equivalent of 167 baht per night.

 

As DrDave has said, "that one only needs to open their eyes and see the number of bars, restaurants and guesthouses that are constantly turning over. These businesses owners are likely not selling because they're making money hand over fist. As has been mentioned many times before, Patong has a continuous cycle of business purchase and failure. Someone is always at the ready to buy a failed business which starts the cycle over again".

 

I really don't see how this cycle can keep repeating itself because somewhere along the line someone is going to cotton on to the fact that many of them are not viable business propositions any more, and after having destroyed the businesses of those folk who saw potential in the place, only to have it ripped from under their feet by greed, lack of planning and corruption, what then?
 

“advertising rooms at the equivalent of 167 baht per night”

 

That’s about 4 quid…surely that can’t sustain the running costs of such a business…

[xylophone]

6 hours ago, billythehat said:

“advertising rooms at the equivalent of 167 baht per night”

 

That’s about 4 quid…surely that can’t sustain the running costs of such a business…

It didn't.........it was up or lease/sale a few months later (just a month ago) and as per DrDave's post, it looks to have been "bought", so the cycle begins again!

[impulse]

On 7/24/2017 at 5:47 PM, xylophone said:

It's amazing the things that you notice during the daylight that you never notice in the evening; one being the size of that new building site and the other being the dilapidated state of Bangla Road itself, not to mention the poor condition of many of the bars and buildings.

 

I can't think of anything that will destroy the illusion more completely than a daytime walk through last night's magical lit up area, when your nose hasn't acclimatized yet to the stench of stale beer and urine.  Being sober doesn't help, either.  

 

Certainly not unique to any particular area. (edit:  lest anyone think I'm bashing Patong...)

 

[steelepulse]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I can't think of anything that will destroy the illusion more completely than a daytime walk through last night's magical lit up area, when your nose hasn't acclimatized yet to the stench of stale beer and urine.  Being sober doesn't help, either.  

 

Certainly not unique to any particular area. (edit:  lest anyone think I'm bashing Patong...)

 

 

You should be alright impulse, I don't think Patong can sue you for defamation, but good job covering yourself just in case those nasty sidewalks could sue you.

[impulse]

19 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

You should be alright impulse, I don't think Patong can sue you for defamation, but good job covering yourself just in case those nasty sidewalks could sue you.

 

Can't be too careful...

[steelepulse]

You're right, those Patong transport kingpins might be looking for an alternative income stream if the Army kicks them to the curb on the 3rd like they say they will.

[xylophone]

On 7/27/2017 at 1:42 PM, steelepulse said:

You're right, those Patong transport kingpins might be looking for an alternative income stream if the Army kicks them to the curb on the 3rd like they say they will.

Must have missed this "news"............what has been mooted to happen on the 3rd??

[LivinginKata]

47 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Must have missed this "news"............what has been mooted to happen on the 3rd??

 

Reduce the number of Tuk Tuk parking 'spaces' in Patong  ... dream on baby

[NamKangMan]

23 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Reduce the number of Tuk Tuk parking 'spaces' in Patong  ... dream on baby

 

Even if the military clear all tuk-tuks from the public parking spaces on Beach Road, it does very little to reverse the damage the transport mafia have done to the tourism industry here.

 

It will take major intervention to disrupt their stranglehold over the essential service of transport here, and to install free market forces and / or proper metered taxis, into the industry. 

 

Before that can be done, there will be road blockades, airport blockades, protests, violence, damage, injuries, death, loss of business, loss of face etc etc.   

 

Like you say, "dream on baby" - it's just not going to happen. 

 

So, you can expect to see less independent travelers coming here. and more package holidayers in coach buses here in the future, mainly, because transport is the large hidden cost to having a holiday on Phuket.

 

 

 

 

[xylophone]

14 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Reduce the number of Tuk Tuk parking 'spaces' in Patong  ... dream on baby

Well they still seem to park anywhere they want even alongside the red and white "no parking" kerb signs so I doubt if the reduction in "allocated parking spaces" will make any difference whatsoever. That is unless they decide that they have done their job and it is up to the BIB to move them along for illegal parking, which won't happen because they are in it together.

 

Not only that, it would seem that the military rather than stamping out corruption here have decided to join in with the collection of tea money as has already been the case, so it will probably be a "more snouts in the trough" scenario.

[xylophone]

A friend was back in town for a few days and wanted to go out to Bangla two evenings out of three, which is against the norm for me, however as he was due to fly out shortly, I agreed to accompany him.

 

On the Wednesday, Bangla itself was okay with quite a few people milling around as is usual, but with a lot of the bars it was a completely different story with hardly any customers in them, apart from the younger set in the “usual suspects” locations (those that I have mentioned previously on many occasions).

 

Nothing really to report apart from something I haven’t seen before and that was a procession of young guys in jeans, stripped off to the waist parading down Bangla, following behind a guy carrying a placard and I couldn’t see what was on it.

 

Now these guys were in good physical shape, muscular in some instances, but not an ounce of fat on any one of them. I asked one of the girls I knew, what this was all about and she said it was an advertisement for a gay bar…..have never seen that before!

 

On the Friday, things were a little different because Bangla was fairly crowded and a lot of the bars were busy, especially those on the left hand side heading down towards the beach, centring around Kangaroo Bar, something I have noticed in the past.

 

A few of the bars in Soi Freedom were doing okay, as was Smiley Bar for a while, and again the usual suspects were crowded and pumping along.

 

I gleaned from another friend, who seems to have his ear to the ground with regards to what’s going on here, that I was right on my previous post with regards to the two empty spaces, because he had heard that Central and Robinsons were going to be built on those spots, and not only that, over the coming three years or so, both the Tiger complexes were going to be torn down and all of that part of Bangla from there towards Rat-u-Thid road was going to be developed with stores etc, although a few well-presented bars would also be in the mix.

 

Getting my usual motorbike taxi ride home, the driver stated that it was very quiet, meaning that he didn’t have many customers I think and when I suggested that it was low season, he replied that it was “low, low season” and that high season only lasted for three months and the low season goes on forever, or words to that effect.

 

As if to back that up I noticed another couple of small guesthouse type establishments up for sale today and also that Amigo Bar and Restaurant has closed down (again), with all of the fittings and furnishings having been removed – – not surprised about this one because whomsoever owned it couldn’t make up their mind whether they should open or not during the daytime, despite the fact that the sign outside stated it was “open from 9 a.m. till late”, which it never was!

[phuketrichard]

nothing on the right side of soi bangla( heading away from the beach) up to soi patong resort can change, That is government land and all those paces were Originally restaurants given to the people that were kicked of the beach o s olong ago.

Left side is private land and .......

Patong has way way to many GH's  & 2 star hotels to even break even in the low season.

[xylophone]

45 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

nothing on the right side of soi bangla( heading away from the beach) up to soi patong resort can change, That is government land and all those paces were Originally restaurants given to the people that were kicked of the beach o s olong ago.

Left side is private land and .......

Patong has way way to many GH's  & 2 star hotels to even break even in the low season.

Although it has been rumoured over the years that this land was going to be reclaimed by the government and made into a large car park, but for the life of me I couldn't see why they would want to do that, or indeed if they even could these days because much of this land had been sold and sold again and how do you "unwind" multiple sales?

 

As for the rumoured new development, on both sides of Bangla, it would be east of Soi Patong resort and has already started, but then again it shows a distinct lack of forethought/planning because both of the Tiger complexes could not be considered long-term fixtures by any stretch of the imagination.

 

As for the owner of Tao, well he spent many millions of baht getting that place fitted out with sophisticated electronics and other fittings, only to see it perform poorly and now closed and even if he was paid for the rights/lease for that place, he certainly wouldn't have recouped his outgoings.

 

Powerful people and big money involved in that new development by all accounts, although not sure that it will transform Patong from a destination for cheap tourists into a destination for the wealthy!

 

And totally agree with your comment about guesthouses and two star hotels and I doubt whether they are making much more than break-even in the high season so the profit needed to see them through the low season is non-existent and it's beginning to show.

[DrDave]

Maybe a little off-topic here, but I've been wondering about the rumors of a shopping mall being built in that construction zone at the east end of Bangla. Specifically, what would be the impact upon Jungceylon if CP (Central Pattana) were to be the developer of this shopping center? If this is the case, I would expect the Central Group owned properties currently leasing space in Jungceylon to relocate to the new CP-owned center, as CP is a subsidiary of Central Group.

 

This would include: Robinson's, Power Buy, Super Sports, Mr Donut, and KFC - which in total currently represents a significant percentage of space in Jungceyon.

Additionally, it would present an opportunity for Patong to gain some other Central Group brands, such as Central, Tops and Central Food Halls.

 

Among the rumors, I've heard the retail brands Robinson's and Central mentioned repeatedly, which would lead me to think that CP might be the developer.

[xylophone]

Perhaps time to wake up the “Wake” thread………….

 

Well Bangla Road last night was anything but a wake (in the sense of mourning that is) because it was very busy and I have not seen it that busy since the last good night in the high season.

 

True enough there was a U.S. Navy boat in Phuket, however there weren’t too many of these guys out and about and those that were, were well-behaved.

 

Bangla Road itself was a thronging mass of various nationalities with very few Chinese in view, but quite a few groups of what looked like Indian folk (not Apache or Cherokee) as well as some people from the Arabic countries.

 

In addition it would seem as if quite a few Australians have found their way here again because the Aussie bar was reasonably well frequented and the other bars opposite, which are favourite hangouts for the Aussies (Kangaroo bars 1 and 2 and Sunset bar) were very busy as were Black Horse, Blue Lotus and a few other bars up and down Bangla.

 

The bars which featured bands were again busy and even Soi Freedom had improved numbers in it, even though nowhere near enough to ensure a profitable evening for most of the bars I would think.

 

Met up with and chatted to Americans, Aussies, New Zealanders, Brits, Dutch and Filipino folk, not to mention one Indian chap who heard me sing a few songs with the Filipino band and seems to have “fallen in love” with me because he couldn’t stop coming up to me and grabbing my hand and then putting his hand on his heart and on mine and then motioning to his head and his heart and pointing to me – – numerous times which did get me a little worried, however after the band stopped playing he did move along, thankfully.

 

I looked around the new Tiger complex and sure enough the first few rows of bars had punters in, but further in, the punters became no more than a handful per bar and about halfway down the complex they’d almost petered out. Then of course the remaining 40% of that complex has empty bars and unused pool tables and it, so maybe its future is in doubt as I had posted previously?

 

Resurrected Tiger had only enough punters in to fill half the seats round the bars and once you get past the first couple of rows of bars the rest of the place is just full of empty bars (closed).

 

Just as I was leaving via a motorbike taxi in Soi Sansabi at about 1.30 a.m. I saw several small groups of very attractive young girls/women heading down towards Bangla and from what I've been told, they just head for the clubs/discos because of the free drinks and some of them basically hop from one to the other so they have a few hours of free drinks and perhaps if they're lucky can hook into a farang for a few hours of whatever takes their fancy!

 

Being driven home I noticed that the small cafe which was almost opposite Da Moreno, Backside Bistro, has moved and occupied the space which used to be the Italian restaurant next to Jakes Bar and cafe, so bigger premises and more visible and one hopes that they make it work as the menu looked to be slightly innovative the last time I looked.

 

So perhaps the summer holidays in some European nations is fuelling the tourist influx here as I have noticed quite a few Italian accents around the place as well as the other nationalities already mentioned…………..and of course we still have Thailand's preferred tourists, the Chinese!!!!!! 

[KarenBravo]

Backside Bistro!

Bwahahahaha!