Screw Heads Breaking Off

[Artisi]

8 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

Sounds like the pilot hole is a little too small.

Screw heads will often break off if the screw gets too hot. Screw will get too hot if the pilot hole is too narrow or not deep enough.

 

Also - if you can find Hafele screws (often in Home Pro and Homeworks) they are much better than other brands here (IMHO).

a screw would never get hot enough to result in a thermal failure. 

[r136dg]

The nails here are crazy to work with also. I was forming concrete a while back & had to adapt to a whole new approach. As said, hard wood & nails seem to be made of lead

[Crossy]

My little DeWalt impact driver will happily take the heads off screws up to a 10, scary amount of torque. The screws are way too hot to touch if they've been buzzed out at full throttle (I don't think they would be hot enough to fail thermally mind).

 

As yet I've failed to find "proper" woodscrews (with a plain shank between head and thread) in Thailand, all are of the self-tapping kind and fully threaded.

 

The self-drilling screws are for use in metal, great for holding up ceiling boards.

 

Note, there are self-drilling screws intended for wood, they have a very sharp point rather than a drill-end, but I've only seen them as roofing screws for holding tiles to a wooden roof.

 

[impulse]

13 hours ago, Mrjlh said:

Small Brass screws are for decorative purposes.  Larger sizes are used in water applications such as in boats.

 

Screws for true marine purposes are generally made of silicon bronze, which is a much stronger and more corrosion resistant material than brass.  Also, pretty pricey and rare unless you go to a specialty shop.  You generally don't get them accidentally.

 

I suspect that the OP's problem is that most construction grade screws are designed for soft wood, which dominates most of the construction trade.  Driving them into hardwood is tough on them- both from a strength and thread pitch standpoint.  Sheet metal screws also vary quite a bit in quality and toughness and are not designed to pull themselves into wood.  

 

I'd suggest drilling pilot holes and setting the torque on the driver.  I spit on my screws to lubricate them (it evaporates without leaving a trace), but driving them into wax is a good alternative.

 

Edit:  BTW, you can buy drill bits in 0.1 mm increments, so if you're still breaking the screws even with pilot holes, go up a few increments until you hit on a size that works.

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by impulse

[NanLaew]

13 hours ago, chiangrai said:

It's an impact driver I'm using so there is no clutch,there is an adjustment that can be made it seems like a gear adjustment but it could be tork.

...

Clutch and/or torque setting, same same. Lowest setting (lowest number) means less chance of stripping the head off.

 

13 hours ago, chiangrai said:

When I'm down to the last bit left it is way too tight to tighten it by hand.

Wrong screws.

 

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, r136dg said:

The nails here are crazy to work with also. I was forming concrete a while back & had to adapt to a whole new approach. As said, hard wood & nails seem to be made of lead

Having said that, the guy installing the roller awnings at Mrs Nan's restaurant just banged some 6" nails straight through the 4" steel box section building frame to make hooks to tie up the awning ropes.

[bankruatsteve]

As others have pointed out, you will most likely solve your problem by going with a larger pilot hole.  If you struggle to screw in by hand, then it's too small.  It should screw in with a feeling of "snug".  Then, use a few clicks from full on should be good for the torque setting.

[chickenslegs]

4 hours ago, Artisi said:

a screw would never get hot enough to result in a thermal failure. 

I stand corrected.

The screw head breaks due to friction, not heat. The heat is an effect of the friction.

A larger pilot hole would reduce the friction.

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

The screw head breaks due to friction, not heat. The heat is an effect of the friction.

A larger pilot hole would reduce the friction.

 

At the risk of being repetitive, a lot of guys would look at their collection of  drill bits and only have (for example) a 3mm and a 4mm  bit.  The 3mm will be too tight, and the 4mm will be too loose.  Head on down to the local hardware guy and they generally have bits in 0.1mm increments.  

 

But they don't come in the all-purpose bit sets that we all buy when we first buy the drill.  He'll have them in a 156 drawer cabinet somewhere, carefully hidden from customer view...  Cheap as chips.

 

[chickenslegs]

Just now, impulse said:

 

At the risk of being repetitive, a lot of guys would look at their collection of  drill bits and only have (for example) a 3mm and a 4mm  bit.  The 3mm will be too tight, and the 4mm will be too loose.  Head on down to the local hardware guy and they generally have bits in 0.1mm increments.  

 

But they don't come in the all-purpose bit sets that we all buy when we first buy the drill.  He'll have them in a 156 drawer cabinet somewhere, carefully hidden from customer view...  Cheap as chips.

 

Next problem is the drill bit breaking off in the hardwood as you make the pilot hole - and how to get it out.

[cooked]

17 hours ago, Mrjlh said:

Check that you are not over torquing the screws.  That's what it sounds like to me. If your drill has adjustable torque setting lower it.  Secondly brass is softer than stainless steel.  Suggest you switch to stainless unless you are looking for the decorative look.  But make sure you buy stainless not a lower steel.  Another approach is drive the screw to almost the end then use a manual screw driver to finish it.

Did you check out the picture of the impact screw driver the OP is using? Apparently not.

[cooked]

The only screws that I know of that you can use successfully in the very hard woods here are TORX screws which are unavailable in Thailand. In combination with a cordless drill I have put in thousands of these without problems, you do need a pilot hole with most woods. Rarely had one break. Kind of expensive, I order mine in Switzerland.

Prices in Swiss Franks: http://torxschrauben.ch/1331.html

[Crossy]

When screwing into wood of any type I was always taught to use a pilot hole to avoid splitting the wood.

 

 

 

[chiangrai]

That was it...I was drilling the pilot hole too short,not too narrow.

 

Change to Hafele or Fitt brand of screws,drill the pilot holes deeper and wax the screws.

 

That should do it.............thanks

 

 

[johng]

Next problem is the drill bit breaking off in the hardwood as you make the pilot hole - and how to get it out.

Just use the spark erosion machine doesn't everyone have one in their tool shed:blink:

 

or just punch the broken bit bellow the surface and drill another hole somewhere else.....or drill 2 more holes as close as possible to the broken bit and 180 degrees opposite each other and try pulling it out with long nose pliers.

Or if you can get to the other side of the piece then drill a hole from the opposite side ,careful not to go too deep and hit the embedded drill bit

then punch the broken drill bit out.

 

[NanLaew]

53 minutes ago, cooked said:

Did you check out the picture of the impact screw driver the OP is using? Apparently not.

No I didn't. Did you?

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

No I didn't. Did you?

 

I couldn't find a picture either, but it doesn't really matter.

 

Any impact-driver even a tiny one like my DeWalt produces massive amounts of torque (205 Nm - twice the recommended torque of a Ford Ranger wheel nut). If one is ham-fisted with the power control you can snap almost anything.

 

 

 

 

 

[chickenslegs]

2 hours ago, johng said:

Just use the spark erosion machine doesn't everyone have one in their tool shed:blink:

 

or just punch the broken bit bellow the surface and drill another hole somewhere else.....or drill 2 more holes as close as possible to the broken bit and 180 degrees opposite each other and try pulling it out with long nose pliers.

Or if you can get to the other side of the piece then drill a hole from the opposite side ,careful not to go too deep and hit the embedded drill bit

then punch the broken drill bit out.

 

Then drive to the nearest DIY store to buy a new drill bit ... get home, drill a new pilot hole ... put in a new screw ... that's the first one done ... only another 31 to go and I'll have this door hung.

 

Joinery is such fun!

[NanLaew]

44 minutes ago, Crossy said:

If one is ham-fisted with the power control you can snap almost anything.

...as she found out one afternoon on Soi 6.

[VocalNeal]

5 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

Next problem is the drill bit breaking off in the hardwood as you make the pilot hole - and how to get it out.

I think the soap trick work on that as well. 

[cooked]

8 hours ago, NanLaew said:

No I didn't. Did you?

Maybe I dreamt it. This is an impact screw driver.

Which shows that most comments here are from people that didn't know it.

[Crossy]

7 hours ago, cooked said:

This is an impact screw driver.

 

Indeed it is, but so is this:-

 

 

http://www.dewalt.com/en-us/products/power-tools/impact-drivers-and-wrenches/20v-max-14-impact-driver-kit/dcf885c1

 

Which is what our OP (and myself) is talking about.

 

No, it is not a cordless drill-driver.

 

[klikster]

On 6/27/2017 at 9:51 PM, chiangrai said:

so are stainless steel wood screws better

Generally speaking, carbon steel is stronger than common stainless.

[kannot]

all hardwoods should  be pilot  drilled  first really, in Europe pine is so soft you can screw straight into the stuff, on exterior  work its gone  rotten in a just a few  years

[kannot]

On 6/28/2017 at 5:51 AM, VocalNeal said:

I think the soap trick work on that as well. 

if  breaking off it probably means your drill bit is  BLUNT

[louse1953]

On 2017-6-27 at 3:39 PM, chiangrai said:

I was drilling a pilot hole first.It would be actually smokind when I pulled it out.

 

Are there good screws available in Thailand.Or what kind are the least bad.

Price sensetive.