Court rejects Yingluck’s request for court to examine rice warehouses

[idman]

Guilty, not guilty, up to the court and not the court of public opinion. Yingluck looks very beautiful in the photo, much better IMO than the one on her birthday. I am such a sucker for an attractive and very rich Asian woman, now if I could only latch unto one here in Chiang Mai.

Sent from my SM-T805 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Chris Lawrence]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I would not audit this situation a few years after the fact. That would be a waste of time unless everything was in the situation it was before. The audits have been made and should be trusted. It showed rotting rice. You can't audit 2 years later and think you can recreate the situation it was then. Rice will have been removed.. and moved.. rotting rice will have been cleaned. Unless the warehouse would have a real good accounting system of where everything was stored and moved (and I highly doubt that here) its worthless. 

 

YL just wants to show off warehouses that are now in good shape no longer overloaded. I don't know where you were when all the pictures and stories about he rotting rice were available. But there were countless. That is enough proof things go wrong and capture the moment. The situation now is totally different. She knows that and wants to act like things were good. I am happy they did not let her get away with such a perversion of justice. Its nothing more then a delaying tactic, I for one am happy it did not work.

 

I practiced as a Real Estate Valuer for 15 years. If you wanted a valuation in my area of expertise I could do it. If I had to look back in time I could do it.

 

Our profession has tools which we use, that are even accepted in court as evidence.

 

When you tell me you couldn't do an audit, I will remember not to call on your services at end of financial year. Rob it can be done.

[Smarter Than You]

55 minutes ago, halloween said:

What truth? Who can say what was going through a suicide's mind, or that financial difficulties weren't a contributing factor?

Intersting double standard.

When the families say the suicides are Yinglucks fault they are to be believed and endlessly quoted in post after ridiculous post by Junta-huggers, but when they say its not Yingluck's fault "who can say what's going through a suicide's mind?"

 

The error of your ways old chum, is that you always value the defence of your cause ahead of the truth and that can only ever end in one way.

[halloween]

5 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

Intersting double standard.

When the families say the suicides are Yinglucks fault they are to be believed and endlessly quoted in post after ridiculous post by Junta-huggers, but when they say its not Yingluck's fault "who can say what's going through a suicide's mind?"

 

The error of your ways old chum, is that you always value the defence of your cause ahead of the truth and that can only ever end in one way.

Right, people facing huge financial difficulties because their purchaser has defaulted on paying, completely illogical to assume that might be a contributing factor.

Much better to assume that suicide amongst unpaid rice farmers had nothing to do with their common factor, especially if it suits your bias.

[worgeordie]

2 hours ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Where is the evidence of this 500 billion baht being loss via the rice scheme? In fact where are any of the figures audited and documented?

" In fact where are any of the figures audited and documented?," Exactly,the figure could be higher,

the cost is definitely on going ,with godown fees,for storing dodgy rice,been paid every month.

 

regards worgeordie

[halloween]

21 minutes ago, Chris Lawrence said:

There were 5 cases against Mr T and one against his wife.

 

The courts in the end found nothing against Mr T but were critical of his wife buying property. Eventually the wifes case ran out of time so their was no prosecution.

 

Why are you so prudish when some one puts a fact to you. Its not personal.

So he wasn't convicted?

[Smarter Than You]

3 minutes ago, halloween said:

Right, people facing huge financial difficulties because their purchaser has defaulted on paying, completely illogical to assume that might be a contributing factor.

Much better to assume that suicide amongst unpaid rice farmers had nothing to do with their common factor, especially if it suits your bias.

First you say "who can say what is going through a suicide's mind" then you promptly "assume" to do just that.

Bravo.

[halloween]

1 minute ago, worgeordie said:

" In fact where are any of the figures audited and documented?," Exactly,the figure could be higher,

the cost is definitely on going ,with godown fees,for storing dodgy rice,been paid every month.

 

regards worgeordie

He has taken the defence of a pedant, if you can't give him an exact figure then there's no proven loss. That much of the accounting is missing, or never done, and that losses are still accumulating every day is immaterial if you don't have a figure exact to a satang.

[jayboy]

2 minutes ago, halloween said:

Right, people facing huge financial difficulties because their purchaser has defaulted on paying, completely illogical to assume that might be a contributing factor.

Much better to assume that suicide amongst unpaid rice farmers had nothing to do with their common factor, especially if it suits your bias.

I think it is a truth universally acknowledged that those who invoke "suicide of farmers" as an argument in the so called rice price support scheme  have (a) lost the plot or (b) so blinded by  prejudice that they lap up every propaganda falsehood.

 

Still everyone's entitled to an opinion.No doubt a few distressed farmers took this terrible step and I don't minimise the grief.But to place this centre stage in the case against the rice price report scheme is akin to insanity.The scheme wasn't competently managed certainly.But why exactly at the end wasn't the government able to obtain financing? Who put pressure on the  banks and why? And of course on these questions one never gets honest answers from the Yingluck haters.

[retarius]

Sounds like Danton's trial during the French Revolution. The judge ruled that the defendants had no right to defend themselves....and off in the tumbrel.

[halloween]

3 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

First you say "who can say what is going through a suicide's mind" then you promptly "assume" to do just that.

Bravo.

Correct. I can safely assume that with a number of suicides facing severe financial distress that is likely to be a factor. Yingluk's witness' claim it definitely was not. If you can't see the difference, that's your problem.

[halloween]

2 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I think it is a truth universally acknowledged that those who invoke "suicide of farmers" as an argument in the so called rice price support scheme  have (a) lost the plot or (b) so blinded by  prejudice that they lap up every propaganda falsehood.

 

Still everyone's entitled to an opinion.No doubt a few distressed farmers took this terrible step and I don't minimise the grief.But to place this centre stage in the case against the rice price report scheme is akin to insanity.The scheme wasn't competently managed certainly.But why exactly at the end wasn't the government able to obtain financing? Who put pressure on the  banks and why? And of course on these questions one never gets honest answers from the Yingluck haters.

Ah the old chestnut again.The answer has been given any number of times, you just choose to ignore it.

[Smarter Than You]

7 minutes ago, halloween said:

Correct. I can safely assume that with a number of suicides facing severe financial distress that is likely to be a factor. Yingluk's witness' claim it definitely was not. If you can't see the difference, that's your problem.

You should head down to the courts and inform the relatives of the suicide victims that they are indeed wrong, that they have no clue and you, in fact, know better than they do why their loved ones opted to kill themselves.

 

Can't you recognise the foolishness of your argument?

In order to sling mud at Yingluck, you believe you know more about people you never met than their immediate family does?

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2017 by Smarter Than You

[Thechook]

Sounds more like a witch hunt than a trial.

[candide]

11 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

" In fact where are any of the figures audited and documented?," Exactly,the figure could be higher,

the cost is definitely on going ,with godown fees,for storing dodgy rice,been paid every month.

 

regards worgeordie

We had a TDRI figure of possibly 1000 billion, another at 800 billion, and the latest around 500 billion. There is also another figure by the Junta, as YL must pay 35 billion, which is 20% of the estimated damage, which makes 175 billion.....

[halloween]

5 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

You should head down to the courts and inform the relatives of the suicide victims that they are indeed wrong, that they have no clue and you, in fact, know better than they do why their loved ones opted to kill themselves.

 

Can't you recognise the foolishness of your argument?

In order to sling mud at Yingluck, you believe you know more about people you never met than their immediate family does?

 

 

 

As I said, if you can't tell the difference between a logical assumption and a definite statement, it is a personal problem. I have no interest in engaging in another of your circular arguments over nothing.

Edited June 30, 2017 by halloween

[jayboy]

Ah the old chestnut again.The answer has been given any number of times, you just choose to ignore it.

Indulge us please.What is the answer? Or just provide a credible link.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[robblok]

58 minutes ago, Chris Lawrence said:

I practiced as a Real Estate Valuer for 15 years. If you wanted a valuation in my area of expertise I could do it. If I had to look back in time I could do it.

 

Our profession has tools which we use, that are even accepted in court as evidence.

 

When you tell me you couldn't do an audit, I will remember not to call on your services at end of financial year. Rob it can be done.

Your a funny guy, comparing real-estate with a stock of rice.. and comparing your home country with Thailand. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I read a bit more in the other newspaper. YL wants to prove there was no rotting rice.. that it was not true..that is why she cherry picked these warehouses. I rather trust the reports with pictures at the time .. then a report now. 

[Chris Lawrence]

39 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

" In fact where are any of the figures audited and documented?," Exactly,the figure could be higher,

the cost is definitely on going ,with godown fees,for storing dodgy rice,been paid every month.

 

regards worgeordie

Read my post to Robbolk above. 

 

I remember a valuer colleague  having to value a high priced greyhound that had died. Now he had to look at potential earnings, costs for care, housing, travelling, and its ability to sire. Interesting Valuation subject. He did it. 

 

This thing can be valued. But the General won't let it. As someone said above this is political.

 

Where  did you get 500 billion baht from? The General tell you? (that's sarcasm, sorry I couldn't help myself.) 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

The facts are... that no serving US president or UK prime Minister or any OTHER country's ex- elected leader are prosecuted, not for corruption, but 'dereliction of duty'. This is not about rice it's a political payback.

 

Whether you love or hate her she was elected and that empowers her, and her government, to make DECISIONS and some will be good and some bad just like every other country leader. For the following 'government' to come in and say 'we don't like that' is totally absurd.  

True... but have any US serving ever done something as bad on this scale. I can tell you that in my country they would really prosecute you if you blew an amount compatible to the health cost of a year of the nation in an off book project that was not to cost money and have no accounts of it. 

[Chris Lawrence]

39 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

" In fact where are any of the figures audited and documented?," Exactly,the figure could be higher,

the cost is definitely on going ,with godown fees,for storing dodgy rice,been paid every month.

 

regards worgeordie

Read my post to Robbolk above. 

 

I remember a valuer colleague  having to value a high priced greyhound that had died. Now he had to look at potential earnings, costs for care, housing, travelling, and its ability to sire. Interesting Valuation subject. He did it. 

 

This thing can be valued. But the General won't let it. As someone said above this is political.

 

Where  did you get 500 billion baht from? The General tell you? (that's sarcasm, sorry I couldn't help myself.) 

[Chris Lawrence]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your a funny guy, comparing real-estate with a stock of rice.. and comparing your home country with Thailand. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I read a bit more in the other newspaper. YL wants to prove there was no rotting rice.. that it was not true..that is why she cherry picked these warehouses. I rather trust the reports with pictures at the time .. then a report now. 

Its not a comparison of one with another.

 

Its the set of tools we are given by completing our studies and then practicing in the real world.

 

Like you I have lived in Thailand and have a reasonable idea of the country.

 

So Yingluk wants an autopsy done. If someone is giving you a bill for the amount the General is wanting, what would you do? What is fair and legal?

 

Do you know someone found the Titanic? 

 

Anything is possible.

[AGareth2]

the problem with political witch hunts is that you never know how they will turn out in the end

politically

[robblok]

10 minutes ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Its not a comparison of one with another.

 

Its the set of tools we are given by completing our studies and then practicing in the real world.

 

Like you I have lived in Thailand and have a reasonable idea of the country.

 

So Yingluk wants an autopsy done. If someone is giving you a bill for the amount the General is wanting, what would you do? What is fair and legal?

 

Do you know someone found the Titanic? 

 

Anything is possible.

You know as well as I do this is possible but the figures would hold no value at all. The audit at the time holds far more value then one done after the time because its hard to recreate the state it was then. That is easy with the examples you are quoting.. but not with rice stocks all over the country. She is just stalling. I guess you were not good at your job.. or were used to selling B.S. that people believed. 

 

Doing an validation of a building in the past is easy.. especially in the West.. but this is totally different. The chances that anything real comes out of it is nill. Its hard enough to valuate something at the moment when you got all the evidence.. a few years after the fact with rice movements and so on in a country like this were records are not kept well... good luck.

 

If she wanted to check something she would have to check the valuation report at the time, not try to recreate one 2 years after the fact. The other newspaper shows that she wants to go to the nicest of storage's to say rotten rice is not true.. while we seen the pics.. we also seen pics of scaffolds and missing rice. 

[Thechook]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

The facts are... that no serving US president or UK prime Minister or any OTHER country's ex- elected leader are prosecuted, not for corruption, but 'dereliction of duty'. This is not about rice it's a political payback.

 

Whether you love or hate her she was elected and that empowers her, and her government, to make DECISIONS and some will be good and some bad just like every other country leader. For the following 'government' to come in and say 'we don't like that' is totally absurd.  

Quite true.  I remember former Australian P.M Kevin Rudd ' s 2.8 billion AUD ( around 900 billion baht in 2014 ) failed Insulation scheme which directly resulted in 4 deaths as found by a Royal Commission.  He wasn't  charged with dereliction of duty,  he made a bad political decision in trying to stimulate the economy.  He eventually lost his position but wasn't ordered to repay any of the money.  His story is another one but I see what you are saying in regards to Yingluk and similar government decisions

[Si Thea01]

3 hours ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Where is the evidence of this 500 billion baht being loss via the rice scheme? In fact where are any of the figures audited and documented?

Do you think the court is going to provide evidence just to satisfy the curiosity of a few on TVF? And if you were shown the evidence, would you be able to reach a conclusion?  If you are truly concerned then maybe an application to the court, of course with your reason for the request, would definitely see your curiosity  satisfied don't you think? 

[Smarter Than You]

4 minutes ago, Si Thea01 said:

Do you think the court is going to provide evidence just to satisfy the curiosity of a few on TVF? And if you were shown the evidence, would you be able to reach a conclusion?  If you are truly concerned then maybe an application to the court, of course with your reason for the request, would definitely see your curiosity  satisfied don't you think? 

Forget TV curiosity, should the Thai courts provide evidence to people of Thailand to justify its rulings?

[Si Thea01]

1 minute ago, Smarter Than You said:

Forget TV curiosity, should the Thai courts provide evidence to people of Thailand to justify its rulings?

No.  Why should they, that is not how any legal system works.  Does it happen in any other country, of course not, so why here?

[billd766]

7 hours ago, Cadbury said:

Wonder why there would be a problem in opening the doors of a few rice warehouses. Maybe someone is worried about what might be found, or more likely not found.

 

Perhaps you should have asked that question a few years ago when she was in charge of the rice scheme.

[LannaGuy]

8 minutes ago, Si Thea01 said:

No.  Why should they, that is not how any legal system works.  Does it happen in any other country, of course not, so why here?

Thai law:

 

1. No Juries
2. No 'precedent' informing future decisions
3. No moderation, check nor balance and highly politicised