Cialis in Chiang Mai

[EricTh]

2 hours ago, stillhereandlovinit said:

Nothing so far (I have had a slight headache for a few weeks though with pollution but nothing different), I wont follow the instructions and take 1 per day though. But when I feel I need a boost I will certainly take it again.

Don't mind me asking, but are you below or above 45 years old?

 

 

[stillhereandlovinit]

5 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Don't mind me asking, but are you below or above 45 years old?

 

 

Just above at 46

[GarryP]

Claimed ingredients of Gracku are:

 

Cordyceps sinensis (Berk) Sace, Epimedium grandiflorm Morr, Coix lachryma-jobil, Cinnamomun cassia Presl,  Lycium chinense Mill, Ziziphus jujuba Mill, Dioscorea oppos Thunb, Cuscuta chinensis Lam, Schisandra chinensis (Turez) Baill, Atracty lodes macrocephala koidz

 

For the most part I do not know what these are (I have heard of the first two items). But if those are all the ingredients then it sounds pretty herbal. Of course it could be adulterated with more modern stuff.  

 

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by GarryP

[EricTh]

56 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Claimed ingredients of Gracku are:

 

Cordyceps sinensis (Berk) Sace, Epimedium grandiflorm Morr, Coix lachryma-jobil, Cinnamomun cassia Presl,  Lycium chinense Mill, Ziziphus jujuba Mill, Dioscorea oppos Thunb, Cuscuta chinensis Lam, Schisandra chinensis (Turez) Baill, Atracty lodes macrocephala koidz

 

For the most part I do not know what these are (I have heard of the first two items). But if those are all the ingredients then it sounds pretty herbal. Of course it could be adulterated with more modern stuff.  

 

 

Where did you get this list from? All or most of these are Chinese herbs and I googled for it. Well, if it is herbal, then I want to try it.

 

Hopefully, it won't give me a throbbing headache.

 

It cost 360 baht for 6 capsules.

 

http://www.pharmaguides.com/2012/11/grackcu-360.html

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by EricTh

[stillhereandlovinit]

30 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Where did you get this list from? All or most of these are Chinese herbs and I googled for it. Well, if it is herbal, then I want to try it.

 

Hopefully, it won't give me a throbbing headache.

 

It cost 360 baht for 6 capsules.

 

http://www.pharmaguides.com/2012/11/grackcu-360.html

 

I paid 350 thb yesterday at the pharmacy just inside Thapae Gate. I just showed them a photo from google and they knew straight away what I wanted.

[GarryP]

Actually the spelling is Grakcu. K before C. 

 

There are a few sites with the ingredients, including some using the more common names but as they are selling the stuff I am precluded from posting the links here by TV policy.  

[heybruce]

A while back I did an internet search on all the ingredients of Grakcu.  I found lots of "purported" effects but no laboratory tests.  From statements here it clearly seems gives people a lift, but nobody knows what the long-term consequences might be.  Kind of like tobacco before it was seriously investigated.

 

I did try it; it made me a little light-headed but did improve enthusiasm down there.  However since I can function without it I haven't made it a regular thing.

 

Herbal and natural don't necessarily mean safe.  Hemlock and highly toxic mushrooms are natural.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

Well, if it is herbal, then I want to try it.

IMO it does/may contain the herbs listed BUT with the addition of sildenafil or similar, as has been found with many "natural/herbal" remedies. Read on before the Thaivisa member numbers decline dramatically.........

 

https://nccih.nih.gov/health/sex/erectiledysfunction.htm

 

"Herbal medicines can cause kidney failure and liver damage in some consumers because they contain toxic chemicals or heavy metals, or react harmfully with other drugs, a study has found.

 

Of herbal preparations from Taiwan assessed over a one-year period, 24% were found to contain prescription medicines. Other pharmaceuticals detected in herbal products include antibiotics, steroids and psychoactive drugs, the review found".

 

Another study of traditional Chinese medicine products in Australia found excessive levels of lead, cadmium and arsenic in 61% of preparations, the review found, levels high enough to cause acute poisoning. Some preparations had been found to contain pesticides or contaminants associated with poor storage".

 

AND.....

There's just one problem: These pills are barely regulated. Supplement makers don't need to prove their products are safe or even effective before putting them on store shelves. And while supplements are supposed to be accurately labeled, a Vox review of government databases, court documents, and scientific studies uncovered more than 850 products that contained illegal and/or hidden ingredients — including banned drugs, pharmaceuticals like antidepressants, and other synthetic chemicals that have never been tested on humans.

 

ALSO......

"In late 2008 and early 2009, the Food and Drug Administration made three announcements, alerting consumers about a total of 72 weight-loss supplements containing undeclared drugs. Those recalls found drugs in the products that included sibutramine, a controlled substance then-prescribed for weight loss, and fluoxetine, an antidepressant best known as Prozac".

 

PLUS........

The most common agent found in the supplements in the Hong Kong study was sibutramine, which was detected in 59 of the products tested. This anti-obesity drug was voluntarily withdrawn by the manufacturer last week, after a study showed it was associated with an elevated risk of heart attack and stroke.

 

But a number of supplements tested in the study also contained banned drugs. Thirteen weight loss supplements contained the appetite suppressant fenfluramine.

 

"No complementary health approaches have been shown to be safe and effective for sexual enhancement or treating ED"

Many supplements promoted for ED and sexual enhancement—sometimes called “herbal Viagra”—have been found to be tainted with drug ingredients or related substances. Some products include combinations of multiple ingredients or excessively high doses, both of which can be dangerous.

 

Both Sildenafil and Tadalafil have been found in herbal "tonics" and ED capsules and were not disclosed.

[EricTh]

11 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I

https://nccih.nih.gov/health/sex/erectiledysfunction.htm

 

 

 

It doesn't specifically say Grackcu. I am wary of these reports that could be funded by the powers of the western drug companies.

 

This is to discredit Chinese herbs which has been used for more than 2000 years and we know which country has the largest population in the world.

 

If everybody were to stop buying those western drugs like Viagra, Cialis and start buying Chinese herbs, who will be at the losing end?

 

The same happened to butter when some companies started promoting Margarine which is just crap food. Or promoting Canola oil which is genetically modified oil even though it's less saturated fat.

 

I would prefer herbal products rather than western drugs anyday. Western doctors never ever tell their patients the adverse side effects of drugs when taken long time.

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by EricTh

[xylophone]

1 minute ago, EricTh said:

 

It doesn't specifically say Grackcu. I am wary of these reports that could be funded by the powers of the western drug companies.

 

This is to discredit Chinese herbs which has been used for more than 2000 years and we know which country has the largest population in the world.

 

If everybody were to stop buying those western drugs like Viagra, Cialis and start buying Chinese herbs, who will be at the losing end?

 

The same happened to butter when some companies started promoting Margarine which is just crap food. Or promoting Canola oil which is genetically modified oil.

 

I would prefer herbal products rather than western drugs anyday. Western doctors never ever tell their patients the adverse side effects of drugs if taken long time.

 

 Your opinion is valued to you, so be it.

 

However the tests done by researchers, unrelated to the drug companies, say otherwise and when push comes to shove, I'll take their advice.

[EricTh]

10 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 Your opinion is valued to you, so be it.

 

However the tests done by researchers, unrelated to the drug companies, say otherwise and when push comes to shove, I'll take their advice.

How do you know they are not related to the drug companies? 

 

Anyway, just because one or two unscrupulous Chinese companies added lead or whatever in some of their products doesn't mean every Chinese company would do that.

 

Chinese herbs are just herbal plants (natural products) so how can that be poisonous (not talking about those poisonous mushroom etc). There was one milk company in China which produced some bad milk which killed some babies many years ago, but that doesn't mean milk is bad. It's just that unscrupulous company.

 

Another analogy, It's just like because one or two doctors are bad doesn't mean all doctors are bad.

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by EricTh

[GarryP]

51 minutes ago, xylophone said:

IMO it does/may contain the herbs listed BUT with the addition of sildenafil or similar, as has been found with many "natural/herbal" remedies. Read on before the Thaivisa member numbers decline dramatically.........

 

https://nccih.nih.gov/health/sex/erectiledysfunction.htm

 

"Herbal medicines can cause kidney failure and liver damage in some consumers because they contain toxic chemicals or heavy metals, or react harmfully with other drugs, a study has found.

 

Of herbal preparations from Taiwan assessed over a one-year period, 24% were found to contain prescription medicines. Other pharmaceuticals detected in herbal products include antibiotics, steroids and psychoactive drugs, the review found".

 

Another study of traditional Chinese medicine products in Australia found excessive levels of lead, cadmium and arsenic in 61% of preparations, the review found, levels high enough to cause acute poisoning. Some preparations had been found to contain pesticides or contaminants associated with poor storage".

 

AND.....

There's just one problem: These pills are barely regulated. Supplement makers don't need to prove their products are safe or even effective before putting them on store shelves. And while supplements are supposed to be accurately labeled, a Vox review of government databases, court documents, and scientific studies uncovered more than 850 products that contained illegal and/or hidden ingredients — including banned drugs, pharmaceuticals like antidepressants, and other synthetic chemicals that have never been tested on humans.

 

ALSO......

"In late 2008 and early 2009, the Food and Drug Administration made three announcements, alerting consumers about a total of 72 weight-loss supplements containing undeclared drugs. Those recalls found drugs in the products that included sibutramine, a controlled substance then-prescribed for weight loss, and fluoxetine, an antidepressant best known as Prozac".

 

PLUS........

The most common agent found in the supplements in the Hong Kong study was sibutramine, which was detected in 59 of the products tested. This anti-obesity drug was voluntarily withdrawn by the manufacturer last week, after a study showed it was associated with an elevated risk of heart attack and stroke.

 

But a number of supplements tested in the study also contained banned drugs. Thirteen weight loss supplements contained the appetite suppressant fenfluramine.

 

"No complementary health approaches have been shown to be safe and effective for sexual enhancement or treating ED"

Many supplements promoted for ED and sexual enhancement—sometimes called “herbal Viagra”—have been found to be tainted with drug ingredients or related substances. Some products include combinations of multiple ingredients or excessively high doses, both of which can be dangerous.

 

Both Sildenafil and Tadalafil have been found in herbal "tonics" and ED capsules and were not disclosed.

I don't mean to detract from what you have written as I do not doubt the veracity thereof, with the exception of the last part. However, many modern medicines also produce adverse reactions and can have long term negative effects on patient health and, in most cases, the patient is not made aware of these reactions or long term effects.  Ever heard of people being rendered blind by sildenafil? 

 

As to the latter, L-citrulline and arginine supplementation have been found to help with ED. Both are simple amino acids, and can be bought online. Further addition of pine bark extract has also been shown to further enhance the results. And, yes, there are research papers on this.     

[xylophone]

33 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I don't mean to detract from what you have written as I do not doubt the veracity thereof, with the exception of the last part. However, many modern medicines also produce adverse reactions and can have long term negative effects on patient health and, in most cases, the patient is not made aware of these reactions or long term effects.  Ever heard of people being rendered blind by sildenafil? 

 

As to the latter, L-citrulline and arginine supplementation have been found to help with ED. Both are simple amino acids, and can be bought online. Further addition of pine bark extract has also been shown to further enhance the results. And, yes, there are research papers on this.     

Don't disagree with you on the long term effects and adverse reactions of modern drugs, however in the vast majority of cases these are known and disclosed.........

 

Research papers and "studies" do not follow the same rigorous procedures as clinical/double blind trials so are not valid in comparison.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

Anyway, just because one or two unscrupulous Chinese companies added lead or whatever in some of their products doesn't mean every Chinese company would do that.

You have missed the point.............lead wasn't "added" to the herbs, it was in them from their growing/harvesting or storage conditions, so they can be poisonous.

 

And many herbs/plants can and are poisonous despite the fact that they are "herbal plants". Some only take effect after periods of ingestion.

 

Well documented, so no need for me to stay on this subject.

[EricTh]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

I don't mean to detract from what you have written as I do not doubt the veracity thereof, with the exception of the last part. However, many modern medicines also produce adverse reactions and can have long term negative effects on patient health and, in most cases, the patient is not made aware of these reactions or long term effects. 

 

Many modern medicines have worse side effects than Chinese herbs but it's hardly ever reported. These drug producing companies earn billions of dollars every year and fund some of these so-called research papers which are biased.

 

What we were told by most doctors aren't true. Watch these videos below by Dr Eric Berg. He's good in explaining things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by EricTh

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Don't disagree with you on the long term effects and adverse reactions of modern drugs, however in the vast majority of cases these are known and disclosed.........

 

Research papers and "studies" do not follow the same rigorous procedures as clinical/double blind trials so are not valid in comparison.

L- citrulline and arginine supplementation for ED.

 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1464-410x.1999.00906.x Double blind trial.

 

http://www.goldjournal.net/article/S0090-4295(10)01661-4/abstract Single blind trial

 

Is that valid enough???

 

Admittedly it will not wake the dead but has been found to work for men with milder problems. 

[GarryP]

15 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Many modern medicines have worse side effects than Chinese herbs but it's hardly ever reported. These drug producing companies earn billions of dollars every year and fund some of these so-called research papers which are biased.

 

What we were told by most doctors aren't true. Watch these videos below by Dr Eric Berg. He's good in explaining things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry but that Dr. is a bit of a scam artist. He is in fact a chiropractor. I would be careful about what you trust and do a bit of background study.  He was also subject to disciplinary action by the Virginia Board of Medicine back in 2007 and ordered to cease advertising and using bogus tests/treatments .

[chingmai331]

Ignorance and fear are huge motivators towards unknown drugs/herbals and remedies of every kind. When i was a boy the big cancer news, available only in Mexico, was apricot pits as a secret cure.  Of course, if you had cancer then even the most remote possibility of cure would send you to mexico.

Now the chinese and other scammers prey upon the old and fearful.  And i'm pretty certain the once the most powerful human male drive, the sex drive which dominates the life of men from age 15, shows signs of diminishment after 50 years, the withered lads will run towards any claimed cure. 

[downtowneddie]

12 hours ago, GarryP said:

Sorry but that Dr. is a bit of a scam artist. He is in fact a chiropractor. I would be careful about what you trust and do a bit of background study.  He was also subject to disciplinary action by the Virginia Board of Medicine back in 2007 and ordered to cease advertising and using bogus tests/treatments .

He may well be a quack but recent research validates that the belief that saturated fats are tied to coronary heart disease is false. That doesn't mean that a diet high in meat is good for your health. There are lots of other correlations between a diet high in meat and other illnesses. What's popularly known as the Mediterranean diet, particularly if it's low in refined grains such as white flour, seems to be the healthiest.

[xylophone]

13 hours ago, GarryP said:

L- citrulline and arginine supplementation for ED.

 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1464-410x.1999.00906.x Double blind trial.

 

http://www.goldjournal.net/article/S0090-4295(10)01661-4/abstract Single blind trial

 

Is that valid enough???

 

Admittedly it will not wake the dead but has been found to work for men with milder problems. 

Barely so I'm afraid as in the first example they use the wording...........

 

Conclusions

Oral administration of l‐arginine in high doses seems to cause significant subjective improvement in sexual function in men with organic ED only if they have decreased NOx excretion or production.

 

Not something I'd rush out and buy based on this!

 

And the second example is a single blind trial only.

 

Your recent post mentioning Pycnogenol was of interest as I have been following that for many years (not for ED though) and as far as an antioxidant goes it is good, although grape seed extract scores better on OPCs........but then again if OPCs were good for ED then why not take larges doses of bilberries, cranberries etc as they also contain them.

 

Anyway, we are way off track here so the mods will probably jump in soon, though good discussing this with you GarryP.

[GarryP]

17 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Barely so I'm afraid as in the first example they use the wording...........

 

Conclusions

Oral administration of l‐arginine in high doses seems to cause significant subjective improvement in sexual function in men with organic ED only if they have decreased NOx excretion or production.

 

Not something I'd rush out and buy based on this!

 

And the second example is a single blind trial only.

 

Your recent post mentioning Pycnogenol was of interest as I have been following that for many years (not for ED though) and as far as an antioxidant goes it is good, although grape seed extract scores better on OPCs........but then again if OPCs were good for ED then why not take larges doses of bilberries, cranberries etc as they also contain them.

 

Anyway, we are way off track here so the mods will probably jump in soon, though good discussing this with you GarryP.

Pine bark extract increases NO production too. Hence it is often promoted to be taken in conjunction with l-arginine and/or citrulline for ED. Back on subject. Citrulline is also used by body builders and people heavily into fitness for improved blood flow, less down time and longer workouts.  

 

Whatever you elect to take I would recommend at least an annual physical as, as you say, there could be long term adverse effects.  

[EricTh]

14 hours ago, GarryP said:

Sorry but that Dr. is a bit of a scam artist. He is in fact a chiropractor. I would be careful about what you trust and do a bit of background study.  He was also subject to disciplinary action by the Virginia Board of Medicine back in 2007 and ordered to cease advertising and using bogus tests/treatments .

 

Whistle blowers are always subjected to disciplinary action. After all, the drug companies are controlled by the most powerful men in the USA. They are not interested in curing us because they don't get any benefits from curing us. It's the continued usage of their drugs such as Statin that gives them profit. 

 

I used to take Statins that made me weak after a while so after watching his videos, I realised that what he said is true. Believe me, he didn't get one cent from me, he does this by educating the public for free. I am now stronger without Statins. Doctors never ever tell us that these synthetic drugs are harmful to our kidneys, liver, heart etc if taken long term. Cancer wasn't so prevalent in ancient times either.

 

Ya, I know he's a chiro but he's quite knowledgeable and explained why this and that works or don't work. We can always check the veracity ourselves through research. We don't need to be doctors ourselves to research, especially since western medicine is controlled by self-serving drug companies.

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by EricTh

[xylophone]

50 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Pine bark extract increases NO production too.

Therefore so would Grape seed extract, bilberries etc (even apples) as they contain the OPCs supposedly responsible for this effect!

 

I do like the idea of taking an antioxidant for obvious reasons and don't believe there is a risk of any long term damage,  but taking various untested herbs and the like, I am not a fan of.

[xylophone]

On 18/03/2018 at 6:59 PM, xylophone said:

A friend of mine was recently waxing lyrical about Gracku and said it worked really well and even gave me some to try, which I did, and like another poster has said the effect was quite startling – – in fact the old fella started to come to life without much encouragement.

 

I thought I was onto something here, until a few hours later I started to get some strange vision effects, sort of a blueish, blurry outline on things I was looking at, and it became quite annoying and worrying. Then I remembered having exactly the same reaction from some Viagra that I was given many years ago, this by a young doctor friend who swore that it was the best thing that had ever been invented, however I couldn't cope with it.

 

What I'm hinting at here is that I am as sure as I can be that this natural herbal remedy actually contains sildenafil or something similar to give this effect, and this would not be just a shot in the dark because many Chinese herbal "medicines" have been shown to contain modern drugs which can be manufactured very cheaply in China.

 

And these can be very dangerous because you don't know the dose and don't know exactly what it is. As I said I am as sure as I can be that this particular capsule contains a modern ED drug – – so be careful.
 

So things like this DO happen.............(pills containing other substances).

 

A slimming food supplement found to be laced with psychoactive substance

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/slimming-food-supplement-found-laced-psychoactive-substance/ 
 

 

 

[xylophone]

On ‎22‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 1:56 PM, EricTh said:

I would be cautious in taking this Gracku more than once a month as it might be damaging to heart, liver or kidney. It's most probably a generic version of Viagra rather than natural herb.

 

I did mention that I thought this product could contain other ED drugs and gave some examples of other "natural/herbal" remedies which contained generic chemicals, and have just seen this below regarding "natural" sexual enhancement products recalled in the US because of this.

 

My thoughts were that if these products got passed the testing/advertising authorities in the US, then it would seem that they would have no problem here in Thailand...............?

 

Sexual Enhancement Supplement Recalled.  

On April 16, 2018, Epic Products, LLC, recalled its sexual enhancement supplement Euphoric because it was found to contain undeclared sildenafil and tadalafil.

 

 See related recalls and warnings:

 --Men's Sexual Enhancement Supplement Recalled

 

--Blue Pearl All Natural Enhancement Supplement Recalled

 

--Nutra Labs Recalls Sexual Enhancement Supplements Containing Undeclared Drugs

 

--Enhancement Supplement "Vegetable Vigra" Recalled

 

--Sexual Enhancement Supplements Containing Prescription Drugs Recalled

 

--FDA Finds Hidden Drug Ingredients in Sexual Enhancement Supplements

[EricTh]

9 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 

My thoughts were that if these products got passed the testing/advertising authorities in the US, then it would seem that they would have no problem here in Thailand...............?

 

 

US drug companies and 'health authorities' are owned by the powerful and richest men in US, they have more interest in their profits rather than welfare of people.

 

After all, slow poison takes years to affect you and you can't blame the drug companies for that.

 

Edited April 19, 2018 by EricTh

[xylophone]

29 minutes ago, EricTh said:

US drug companies and 'health authorities' are owned by the powerful and richest men in US, they have more interest in their profits rather than welfare of people.

Same same as here then!!

[chingmai331]

Is the girl holding the coffee cups wearing a codpiece?  It's usually a male item of clothing, but not lately for sure.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, chingmai331 said:

Is the girl holding the coffee cups wearing a codpiece?  It's usually a male item of clothing, but not lately for sure.

I think it is an apron with pockets for a pen and pad with which to take orders for food and drink.

[FolkGuitar]