Iraq collectively punishing Islamic State families - HRW

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Iraq collectively punishing Islamic State families - HRW

 

FILE PHOTO: A detained man, accused of being an Islamic State fighter, sits in front of newly-displaced men near a check point in Qayyara, east of Mosul, Iraq, October 26, 2016. REUTERS/Goran Tomasevic/File photo

 

ERBIL (Reuters) - Human Rights Watch has accused Iraqi security forces of forcibly relocating at least 170 families of alleged Islamic State members to a closed "rehabilitation camp" as a form of collective punishment.

 

“Iraqi authorities shouldn’t punish entire families because of their relatives’ actions,” said Lama Fakih, deputy Middle East director at Human Rights Watch.

 

“These abusive acts are war crimes and are sabotaging efforts to promote reconciliation in areas retaken from ISIS.”

 

Islamic State is also known as ISIS. An Iraqi military spokesman was not immediately available for comment.

 

Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi has announced victory over Islamic State in Mosul, ending three years of jihadist rule in the stronghold of their self-proclaimed caliphate.

 

Iraq's government now faces the task of preventing revenge attacks against people associated with Islamic State that could, along with sectarian tensions, undermine efforts to create long-term stability in the country.

 

“The camps for so-called ISIS families have nothing to do with rehabilitation and are instead de facto detention centres for adults and children who have not been accused of any wrongdoing,” Fakih said. “These families should be freely permitted to go where they can live safely.”

 

Iraqi authorities have opened the first of what they describe as "rehabilitation" camps in Bartalla, just east of Mosul. Human Rights Watch says the official purpose of the camp is to enable psychological and ideological rehabilitation.

 

"Forced displacements and arbitrary detentions have been taking place in Anbar, Babil, Diyala, Salah al-Din, and Nineveh governorates, altogether affecting hundreds of families," the group said.

 

"Iraqi security and military forces have done little to stop these abuses, and in some instances participated in them."

 

Human Rights Watch said it visited Bartalla camp and interviewed 14 families, each with up to 18 members.

 

"New residents said that Iraqi Security Forces had brought the families to the camp and that the police were holding them against their will because of accusations that they had relatives linked to ISIS," said Human Rights Watch.

 

"Medical workers at the camp said that at least 10 women and children had died travelling to or at the camp, most because of dehydration."

 

(Writing by Michael Georgy; Editing by Toby Chopra)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-07-13

[ilostmypassword]

Once again, the Iraqi government is recruiting for Isil.

[billd766]

Where was HRW when ISIS were slaughtering men, women and children after they took over areas of Iraq?

 

Where was HRW when ISIS were slaughtering Iraqi soldiers that they had captured?

 

Where was HRW when hostages were being executed and beheaded?

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Where was HRW when ISIS were slaughtering men, women and children after they took over areas of Iraq?

 

Where was HRW when ISIS were slaughtering Iraqi soldiers that they had captured?

 

Where was HRW when hostages were being executed and beheaded?

What do you mean, where were they? Are you seriously suggesting that they supported it? Or remained silent about it? Or do you believe that HRW is a military organization and should have had troops on the ground?  What exactly is your point?

Here are some posts from HRW about Isis:

https://www.hrw.org/tag/isis

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/03/22/iraq-isis-dumped-hundreds-mass-grave

[billd766]

What I meant was, what did they DO about it?

 

It is great to have an organisation devoted to talking about Human Rights, but it would be far better to have one that actually achieved something about Human rights.

[Caps]

can't see what HRW are moaning about, at least they are in a camp and were not given the same treatment as Iraqi families were given when IS took over their towns and villages.  The IS families should consider themselves lucky.  Doesnt life look differnet when the shoe is on the other foot?

[just.a.thought]

It is never going to stop not matter who's in power or what they call themselves it always revert to tribal war and revenge......

[observer90210]

If HRW are in war zones guess that's the place where they should be. I won't comment on where or why they were not present when ISIS atrocities were flooding the internet movie tubes.

 

What still leaves many aghast is when the HRW people started quibbling against european prisons, claiming in some nations that the windows were not large enough!!..Seriously.!!...what a waste of funds and manpower...

[Scott]

I have nothing against HRW and their attempt to bring to everyone's attention situation which may violate human rights, but how people are treated fairly in various locations depends on a lot of factors.   I think it might be everyone's interest to have the families segregated until their allegiances can be determined.   If for no other reason, for their own safety.  

 

Collective punishment is very much a part of the cultural psyche in the ME.  

 

 

[Ron19]

Flame post and reply removed.

[Thechook]

That's like being pampered compared to the way ISIS  treated other families.  If it was the other way around ISIS would be beheading them and raping the women.

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, Scott said:

I have nothing against HRW and their attempt to bring to everyone's attention situation which may violate human rights, but how people are treated fairly in various locations depends on a lot of factors.   I think it might be everyone's interest to have the families segregated until their allegiances can be determined.   If for no other reason, for their own safety.  

 

Collective punishment is very much a part of the cultural psyche in the ME.  

 

 

And you think  they will be determining their allegiances in  a rational and measured way?

[simple1]

16 hours ago, billd766 said:

Where was HRW when ISIS were slaughtering men, women and children after they took over areas of Iraq?

 

Where was HRW when ISIS were slaughtering Iraqi soldiers that they had captured?

 

Where was HRW when hostages were being executed and beheaded?

HRW has issued a number of articles concerning  abuses by ISIS. It only takes a few seconds to verify e.g.

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/03/22/iraq-isis-dumped-hundreds-mass-grave

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by simple1

[simple1]

30 minutes ago, Thechook said:

That's like being pampered compared to the way ISIS  treated other families.  If it was the other way around ISIS would be beheading them and raping the women.

So what are you saying, it's OK for Iraqi forces to commit war crimes; the very same issues that previously assisted the rise of ISIS in Iraq during Maliki's rule. From the OP:..

 

“These abusive acts are war crimes and are sabotaging efforts to promote reconciliation in areas retaken from ISIS.”

 

 

[boomerangutang]

                        It's a tough row to hoe.  Family members of ISIS fighters, particularly their wives and grown children, are/were required to provide support for the fighter in the family.  Plus, children of fighters are likely going to grow up to be fanatic-Islam fighters themselves.  It's an ugly revolving door.

 

                      If it was up to me to choose whether to incarcerate adult members of a family of a fighter, I would recommend doing so, under humane prison-like scenarios.  Scorpions breed scorpions.  I would take the children (up to mid-teens) away to get raised in orphanages or put up for adoption.  Of course, a big factor in all this is; who will admit they were fighters and/or families of fighters.  Lying, in the M.East, is even more endemic than it is within the Trump family, if that's possible.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

So what are you saying, it's OK for Iraqi forces to commit war crimes; the very same issues that previously assisted the rise of ISIS in Iraq during Maliki's rule. From the OP:..

 

“These abusive acts are war crimes and are sabotaging efforts to promote reconciliation in areas retaken from ISIS.”

 

 

Apart from any moral questions, it's the stupidity of this that stands out. What better way to recruit new troops for Isis than to once again mistreat the Sunnis. You'd think they would have learned from the consequences of Maliki's treatment of them.  Well, actually, given the history of the place, you probably wouldn't.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Apart from any moral questions, it's the stupidity of this that stands out. What better way to recruit new troops for Isis than to once again mistreat the Sunnis. You'd think they would have learned from the consequences of Maliki's treatment of them.  Well, actually, given the history of the place, you probably wouldn't.

 

But the same could be said about recruiting new troops against ISIS.

 

Given that ISIS is now fading just a little in Iraq why shouldn't Iraqis take revenge against the very people who slaughtered innocent men and children, who repeatedly raped and murdered women and treated them as sex slaves?

 

How would you feel if yor parents and your wife's were slaughtered for no reason other than terror, if your wife and daughters no matter what their age were repeatedly raped in front of you, if your babies had their heads smashed against a wall to kill them, your sons pressed into service to kill other members of your family?

 

What would say to a bunch of westerners who came along later after you had been relaesed and told you that you had to respect the human rights of some ISIS terrorists?

 

My second word would be "off: and I would not be polite about saying it.

 

When terrorists slaughter men, women and children they lose any "human rights" they ever had and IMHO should be hunted down and publicly executed the way that have done to others.

 

It is fine trying to look at it from a western perspective but to actually experience it from a local point of view is a whole different world.

 

I am sure that you won't agree with me but that is my personal feeling and it won't cahnge.

[simple1]

15 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Given that ISIS is now fading just a little in Iraq why shouldn't Iraqis take revenge against the very people who slaughtered innocent men and children,

Unfortunately it ain't just actual members of ISIS being killed, but also other Sunnis -. one oppressor replacing the other.  

 

Yes I know it's easy to say from afar, but steps have to be taken to eventually transition away from the cycle of bloody revenge and move to reconciliation; if not yet another variant of Sunni terror will manifest. It's a lengthy article, but the story at the URL below talks to the overwhelming futility and sorrow in Iraq which will continue if the emergence of leaders of cultural change don't come to the fore.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/the-hell-after-isis/476391/

 

 

[connda]

What did ISIS do to non-ISIS families?  I'm thinking there is no comparison.  

[billd766]

7 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Unfortunately it ain't just actual members of ISIS being killed, but also other Sunnis -. one oppressor replacing the other.  

 

Yes I know it's easy to say from afar, but steps have to be taken to eventually transition away from the cycle of bloody revenge and move to reconciliation; if not yet another variant of Sunni terror will manifest. It's a lengthy article, but the story at the URL below talks to the overwhelming futility and sorrow in Iraq which will continue if the emergence of leaders of cultural change don't come to the fore.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/the-hell-after-isis/476391/

 

 

 

It is basically about religion.

 

Although both Sunni and Shia are both Muslim . Both believe that they have the "true" version and both hate each other to the death as we have seen and ISIS are stirring both sides as they believe their perverted version is the only true one.

 

Sadly it is not only in Iraq but all over the region and is spreading across the world.

[DLang]

What a real shame. Should invite them over for tea and scones. 

[4MyEgo]

Can't understand all the publicity on this, just do to ISIL as ISIL would do unto them, sorted oy !

[observer90210]

13 hours ago, just.a.thought said:

It is never going to stop not matter who's in power or what they call themselves it always revert to tribal war and revenge......

Well it is in no arms producing nation's interest, to have wars stop!

[simple1]

39 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

It is basically about religion.

 

Although both Sunni and Shia are both Muslim . Both believe that they have the "true" version and both hate each other to the death as we have seen and ISIS are stirring both sides as they believe their perverted version is the only true one.

 

Sadly it is not only in Iraq but all over the region and is spreading across the world.

By no means am I an expert in Sunni / Shia relations, but it does come across to me current conflicts are mostly driven by manipulation / power plays by so called 'leaders' to retain or gain power; religion being the 'tool'.

 

As a minor point I have observed Shia / Sunni families living alongside peacefully together in Thailand and have done so for generations. Christian refugees from former Yugoslavia (lost their homes due to NATO bombing) in Australia saying to me fundamentally it was all about power, not religion

Edited July 14, 2017 by simple1

[ilostmypassword]

43 minutes ago, simple1 said:

By no means am I an expert in Sunni / Shia relations, but it does come across to me current conflicts are mostly driven by manipulation / power plays by so called 'leaders' to retain or gain power; religion being the 'tool'.

 

As a minor point I have observed Shia / Sunni families living alongside peacefully together in Thailand and have done so for generations. Christian refugees from former Yugoslavia (lost their homes due to NATO bombing) in Australia saying to me fundamentally it was all about power, not religion

In Iraq before the Bush intervention, relations between Shias and Sunnis was fine. Lots of intermarriage. Integrated neighborhoods. It's only when the mechanism of the state fell apart that people began to look to other institutions to organize civic life. Unfortunately, religion was a ready-made one.