Six dead in worst Israeli-Palestinian bloodshed for years

[rooster59]

Six dead in worst Israeli-Palestinian bloodshed for years

By Luke Baker and Ori Lewis

 

A Palestinian protester uses a sling to hurl stones towards Israeli troops during clashes near the border between Israel and central Gaza Strip July 21, 2017. REUTERS/Ibraheem Abu Mustafa

 

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Six people were killed on Friday in the bloodiest spate of Israeli-Palestinian violence for years, prompted by new security Israeli measures at Jerusalem's holiest site.

 

Three Israelis were stabbed to death in a Jewish settlement in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, hours after three Palestinians were killed in violence prompted by Israel's installation of metal detectors at entry points to the Noble Sanctuary-Temple Mount compound in Jerusalem's walled Old City.

 

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas ordered the suspension of all official contact with Israel until it removed the metal detectors. He gave no details, but current contacts are largely limited to security cooperation.

 

"I declare the suspension of all contacts with the Israeli side on all levels until it cancels its measures at al Aqsa mosque and preserves the status quo," Abbas said in a brief televised speech.

 

The three Israelis stabbed to death and a fourth who was wounded were from the fenced-in West Bank settlement of Neve Tsuf. Israeli media said the three dead were all members of the same family, two men aged 60 and 40 and a woman of 40.

 

The wounded woman, 68, was hospitalised with stab wounds to her back, Israeli media said.

 

A still photo carried by Israeli television showed a kitchen floor completely red with blood. The family had sat down to a traditional Friday evening meal when the attack occurred, according to Israel Radio.

 

The Israeli army and media said the assailant slipped into the settlement under cover of darkness to carry out his attack.

 

Israel Radio identified him as a 19-year-old Palestinian from the West Bank village of Khobar near Ramallah. It said he was shot, but his condition was not initially known.

 

PALESTINIAN-ISRAELI CLASHES NEAR SHRINE

 

Earlier, Palestinian worshippers clashed with Israeli security forces. Tensions had mounted for days as Palestinians hurled rocks and Israeli police used stun grenades after the detectors were placed outside the sacred venue, known to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary and to Jews as Temple Mount.

 

The Palestinian Health Ministry said Mohammed Sharaf, 17, and Mohammad Hassan Abu Ghannam, age unknown, died of gunshot wounds in two neighbourhoods of East Jerusalem somewhat away from the epicentre of tension in the walled Old City. It reported a third Palestinian fatality, Mohammed Lafi, 18, later.

 

It was not immediately clear who fired the shots, with unconfirmed media reports that an Israeli settler was responsible in Sharaf's death.

 

Israel decided to install the metal detectors at the entry point to the shrine in Jerusalem's walled Old City on Sunday, after the killing of two Israeli policemen on July 14.

 

The shrine includes the al Aqsa Mosque, the third-holiest site in Islam, and the golden Dome of the Rock. It was also the site of an ancient Jewish temple, the holiest place in Judaism.

 

Despite international pressure to remove the metal detectors, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's security cabinet decided in Friday's early hours to keep them in place, saying they were needed to prevent arms being smuggled into the shrine.

 

In protest, thousands of worshippers gathered for Friday prayers at various entrances to the sacred compound, which sits on a marble and stone plateau in the Old City. They refused to enter, preferring to pray outside, in some cases filling the narrow alleyways of the Old City's Muslim quarter.

 

"We reject Israeli restrictions at the Aqsa Mosque," said Jerusalem's senior Muslim cleric, Grand Mufti Mohammad Hussein.

 

Muslim leaders and Palestinian political factions had urged the faithful to gather for a "day of rage" on Friday against the new security policies, which they see as changing delicate agreements that have governed the holy site for decades.

 

Israeli police mobilised extra units and erected barriers to carry out checks at entrances to the Old City. Access to the shrine for Muslims was limited to men over 50 but open to women of all ages. Roadblocks were in place on approach roads to Jerusalem to stop buses carrying Muslims to the site.

 

At one location near the Old City, stone throwers did try to break through a police line, and police used stun grenades to drive them back.

 

Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said four officers were injured in the sporadic clashes and the Palestinian Red Crescent ambulance service said at least 377 protesters had been hurt, some suffering from tear gas inhalation.

 

The hilltop compound has long been a source of religious friction. Since Israel captured and annexed the Old City, including the compound, in the 1967 Middle East war, it has also become a symbol of Palestinian nationalism. "This is our place of prayer, we have sovereignty here," Salaam said.

 

On Thursday, Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan called Israeli President Reuven Rivlin to press for the removal of the metal detectors. Nickolay Mladenov, the U.N. special coordinator for the Middle East, appealed for calm and the White House called for a resolution. Jordan, the custodian of the holy site, has also been involved in mediation efforts.

 

But Netanyahu's 11-member security cabinet opted in a late-night meeting to retain the metal detectors to ensure no weapons were smuggled in, a week after three Arab-Israeli gunmen shot dead two Israeli policemen in the vicinity of the complex.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-07-22

 

[dexterm]

Just as Israel's Shin Bet predicted..

 

If only Netanyahu had listened to Shin Bet, who advised him to dismantle the metal detectors, imposed without consulting the legal custodians Waqf, and seen by Palestinians as yet more creeping annexation and control over the third holiest site in Islam, and the illegally occupied West Bank. Yet another Israeli checkpoint along with the hundreds of others to dominate Palestinian lives.

 

But Netanyahu's saving face comes at a cost of not saving 6 lives, and maybe more to follow. Try being a statesman Netanyahu and not a stooge for the right wing fanatics in your cabinet.

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by dexterm

[Rancid]

Israel really has become widely regarded as an apartheid state, however unlike Sth Africa it seems to be politically incorrect to criticize, clever labeling or just simple ownership and control of the world media?

 

Did read though that a large percentage of Israelis are not happy with the direction the country has taken, plus there are even US Jewish groups that do protest against it. As such would seem to be that the country is firmly under the grip of a right wing political faction with their own agenda. The real nutter anti-Semites, as opposed to anyone labelled such for offering any criticism, should take note.

[Stargeezr]

Looks like the bloodshed in this region of the world just continues, and likely will for at least several years to the rest of my life time. I doubt that we will see many changes for a lot of years yet, and that is so unfortunate.

Geezer

[Jingthing]

52 minutes ago, Rancid said:

Israel really has become widely regarded as an apartheid state, however unlike Sth Africa it seems to be politically incorrect to criticize, clever labeling or just simple ownership and control of the world media?

 

Did read though that a large percentage of Israelis are not happy with the direction the country has taken, plus there are even US Jewish groups that do protest against it. As such would seem to be that the country is firmly under the grip of a right wing political faction with their own agenda. The real nutter anti-Semites, as opposed to anyone labelled such for offering any criticism, should take note.

To suggest that Jews control the global media is a classic Jew hating trope.  You thought you could slip in there gingerly. No dice. Shame on you. 

 

American Jews are much more liberal overall than Israeli Jews but they don't live in the region, so it's arguable that they don't have the skin in the game to the great extent that Israelis do. 

You're right that normal criticism of Israeli government policies as towards other governments is not antisemitism. But so often such criticism bleeds into Jew hating garbage propaganda / global control conspiracy theories as your post above just did.

 

Calling Israel an apartheid state is a complex issue. In Israel itself it obviously is not. Talking about the west bank, the arguments have some credibility. 

Edited July 22, 2017 by Jingthing

[Morch]

I'm not arguing Netanyahu's faulty decision making, or Israel's right wing pushed policies contributing anything positive to the situation. What I do question is the usual one-sided take on things. There is no criticism offered with regard to the Waqf's response, but rather, it is accepted wholesale. Netanyahu & Co. could have treated the situation differently, and similarly, leaders on the other side could have done more to find a workable solution.

 

As said in earlier posts on related previous topics, such expectations being frustrated is pretty much the norm on all counts. A lot of this, other than owing to actual positions, results from the parties' respective political pressures and circumstances.

 

The best bet is further digging of heels by all involved, with extremists making the most of the situation, possibly leading for things spiraling further out of control. Breaking these reoccurring cycles is difficult given underlying sentiments and current leaderships. And Trump's administration being what it is, harder to rely on mediation to sort the crisis.

 

[sirineou]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Calling Israel an apartheid state is a complex issue. In Israel itself it obviously is not. Talking about the west bank, the arguments have some credibility. 

except for the apartheid parts of Israel the rest is not apartheid 

[Jingthing]

A good example of the irrational pro-violence fanaticism that Israel is dealing with --

 

 

[DeaconJohn]

The Palestinians know that if they can provoke Israel into taking repressive measures at the entrance to Al Aqsa Mosque it will unite the whole Muslim world against them. That is what Israeli leaders must face.

Israel's security establishment abuses Judaism because it equates its Zionist expansionist and oppressive policy with Judaism.

Enlightenment is, therefore, more than a necessity, it begins with living within their internationally recognized 1967 borders and deconstructing the mythological web that surrounds the history of the State of Israel.

[Jingthing]

The Palestinians know that if they can provoke Israel into taking repressive measures at the entrance to Al Aqsa Mosque it will unite the whole Muslim world against them. That is what Israeli leaders must face.
Israel's security establishment abuses Judaism because it equates its Zionist expansionist and oppressive policy with Judaism.
Enlightenment is, therefore, more than a necessity, it begins with living within their internationally recognized 1967 borders and deconstructing the mythological web that surrounds the history of the State of Israel.

That does not make any sense. Jews are not allowed to pray there.

Yes we all know global Muslims are nutso sensitive about that mosque.

[DeaconJohn]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That does not make any sense. Jews are not allowed to pray there.

Yes we all know global Muslims are nutso sensitive about that mosque.

My post makes sense.

Your observation that Jews are not allowed to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque is a red herring .

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, DeaconJohn said:

The Palestinians know that if they can provoke Israel into taking repressive measures at the entrance to Al Aqsa Mosque it will unite the whole Muslim world against them. That is what Israeli leaders must face.

Israel's security establishment abuses Judaism because it equates its Zionist expansionist and oppressive policy with Judaism.

Enlightenment is, therefore, more than a necessity, it begins with living within their internationally recognized 1967 borders and deconstructing the mythological web that surrounds the history of the State of Israel.

 

There is no unified Palestinian position as alluded. For example, the above it hardly represents the wishes Abbas or most non-Islamic forces on the Palestinian side. The reason being that using religious sentiment is a double edged sword. One of the things that came up all week long on sermons and after them were criticism of the PA's cooperation with Israel. As with many other Arab countries and leaders, there's a balance of power between secular and religious power.

 

Most of "Israel's security establishment" was actually against turning this confrontation, and advocated compromise. The decision was by and large, a political one. Of course, this robs your comment of it's imaginary barb.

 

And as another tired "argument", the one sided demand of Israel to address reality and let go of its narrative. Somehow one side's use of religion as a political tool is legitimate, while the other doing the same, isn't. Routine.

[Jingthing]

My post makes sense.
Your observation that Jews are not allowed to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque is a red herring .

But they're not. Fish of whatever color notwithstanding.

[dexterm]

Interesting analysis from Israel's Haartez on Israel's previous and present perceived/real? attempts to alter sovereignty on Harm al Sharif, which is after all a mosque legally administered by Waqf, not the illegally occupying power Israel.

They are playing with the fire of a religious war, another intifada, with many Israelis and Palestinians as casualties just to appease a few ultra religious Jewish fanatics...and it may all in the end prove counter productive.

Knee jerk Israeli reaction with the usual overwhelming force, rather than thinking things through and consultation with the legal custodians to calm the situation.

 

Israeli Decision Makers Once Again Ignored the Warnings of Bloodshed

"Israeli citizens are entitled to ask, how many times will this scenario repeat itself? How many times until Israel understands that despite the 50 years of occupation and unending clichés from politicians, it is not the sovereign on the Temple Mount?"

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.802972

Edited July 23, 2017 by dexterm

[Morch]

39 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Interesting analysis from Israel's Haartez on Israel's previous and present perceived/real? attempts to alter sovereignty on Harm al Sharif, which is after all a mosque legally administered by Waqf, not the illegally occupying power Israel.

They are playing with the fire of a religious war, another intifada, with many Israelis and Palestinians as casualties just to appease a few ultra religious Jewish fanatics...and it may all in the end prove counter productive.

Knee jerk Israeli reaction with the usual overwhelming force, rather than thinking things through and consultation with the legal custodians to calm the situation.

 

Israeli Decision Makers Once Again Ignored the Warnings of Bloodshed

"Israeli citizens are entitled to ask, how many times will this scenario repeat itself? How many times until Israel understands that despite the 50 years of occupation and unending clichés from politicians, it is not the sovereign on the Temple Mount?"

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.802972

 

The Waqf's ongoing administration of the site is with Israeli consent and by agreement. Without ignoring faulty decision making by  Israeli governments and politicians, turning a blind eye to the Waqf's part in creating this mess is just another tired one-sided view.

 

Somehow one side's religious fanatics are worse than the others. Said the self-proclaimed atheist.

 

 

 

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.   I suggest members stay on topic and focused.  

[dexterm]

29 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The Waqf's ongoing administration of the site is with Israeli consent and by agreement. Without ignoring faulty decision making by  Israeli governments and politicians, turning a blind eye to the Waqf's part in creating this mess is just another tired one-sided view.

 

Somehow one side's religious fanatics are worse than the others. Said the self-proclaimed atheist.

 

 

 

No need to be rude with snide flaming comments about my beliefs.

 

True ... the custodianship was agreed to by the illegally occupying power Israel.What the Muslim world is worried about now is Israel reneging on that agreement, which would not be unusual in the context of Israel's temporary 50 year occupation.

 

Excellent article on the OP subject from Jews for Justice for Palestinians newsletter..

 

"But there’s a reason why the army and Israel’s security services urged the cabinet to reconsider, which is summed up in the Israeli cliché that it’s better to be smart than right. What difference does it make if the metal detectors theoretically make sense in a sterile environment, if they are bound to wreak more havoc and to cause more death and destruction in their presence than their absence in the hellhole that is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?"

http://jfjfp.com/?p=93890

 

The whole article well worth reading. Says it more eloquently than I could.

Edited July 23, 2017 by dexterm
spelling

[Morch]

1 minute ago, dexterm said:

No need to be rude with snide flaming comments about my beliefs.

 

True ... the custodianship was agreed to by the illegally occupying power Israel.What the Muslim world is worried about now is Israel reneging on that agreement, which would not be unusual in the context of Israel's temporary 50 year occupation.

 

Excellent article on the OP subject from Jews for Justice for Palestinians newsletter..

 

"But there’s a reason why the army and Israel’s security services urged the cabinet to reconsider, which is summed up in the Israeli cliché that it’s better to be smart than right. What difference does it make if the metal detectors theoretically make sense in a sterile environment, if they are bound to wreak more havoc and to cause more death and destruction in their presence than their absence in the hellhole that is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?"

http://jfjfp.com/?p=93890

 

The whole article well worth reading. Says it more leoquently than I could.

 

Pointing out hypocrisy is rude?

 

And nonsense goes on. The West Bank and Jerusalem were conquered by Israel - from Jordan, who occupied them and tried to annex them. That may put some question marks on the actual legal status of the Waqf's control. All involved parties do their best to avoid going down this road, for obvious reasons, and maintain things as they are by agreement.

 

Israel did not "renege" on any agreement. The Waqf's agreed turf is within the compound, not out of it. Granted, things could have been dealt with in a better manner - but this cuts both ways, which you refuse to acknowledge as it doesn't fit the  agenda.

 

The article quoted is actually from Haaretz, again. A couple of paragraphs above the one you picked, there's a rather emotional reference to the banality of both sides playing the same game over and over again. Not something you'd quote, as it too, doesn't fit the one-sided agenda.

 

[Here2008]

Yet again terrorists and their fan club object violently to a restriction placed on their murderous activities.

 

Why would any sane person object to a simple non intrusive improvement of security?

Edited July 23, 2017 by Here2008

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Here2008 said:

Yet again terrorists and their fan club object violently to a restriction placed on their murderous activities.

 

Why would any sane person object to a simple non intrusive improvement of security?

 

Because the cons outweigh the pros, at this time. This was, essentially, Israel's security chiefs' take.

 

[Here2008]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Because the cons outweigh the pros, at this time. This was, essentially, Israel's security chiefs' take.

 

How would you suggest the terrorists are prevented, in future,  from using a "holy" site as a store for smuggled war weapons?

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Here2008 said:

How would you suggest the terrorists are prevented, in future,  from using a "holy" site as a store for smuggled war weapons?

 

Thankfully, I'm not in charge of security at the site.

 

The weapons used in the recent attack were not stored at the site, but handed over (at the grounds) by an accomplice. There were no other "war weapons" found in searches conducted after the attack.

 

There are two issues - (a) whether security means are effective and needed, (b) the manner in which they are introduced. Even if one supports the former, the poor handling of the latter cannot be denied.

[Here2008]

Just now, Morch said:

The weapons used in the recent attack were not stored at the site, but handed over (at the grounds) by an accomplice

Even if what you say is true the weapons would not have been on site to be 'handed over'  if security metal detecting  scanners had been operating.

 

Those wishing to attend the site for purely 'religious' purposes should welcome the improved security the scanners offer.

[anon4546543]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Thankfully, I'm not in charge of security at the site.

 

The weapons used in the recent attack were not stored at the site, but handed over (at the grounds) by an accomplice. There were no other "war weapons" found in searches conducted after the attack.

 

There are two issues - (a) whether security means are effective and needed, (b) the manner in which they are introduced. Even if one supports the former, the poor handling of the latter cannot be denied.

Thankfully, nor is the rest of the world. Hopefully the rest of the world can get out of the Muddle East.

Let the Arab and Islam factions do what they do best - kill each other. Let countries that invade and seize land not belonging to them

receive the wrath of Islam. Anything that deflects murderous scum from M.E. running amok in civilised countries.

I am glad Israel is waving the red flag. (Message to all Islamists in the West. Know your enemy) A call to go home. 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Here2008 said:

Even if what you say is true the weapons would not have been on site to be 'handed over'  if security metal detecting  scanners had been operating.

 

Those wishing to attend the site for purely 'religious' purposes should welcome the improved security the scanners offer.

 

There is no "if what you say is true". That's the information released. There's a clip showing cctv footage of the attackers and the accomplice.

 

Again, further security measures (like the metal detectors) would have helped prevent the attack. But considering the sensitivity of the site, their introduction could have been handled differently, possibly avoiding further bloodshed. Another consideration is crowd control - during prayer time, a whole lot of worshipers enter the grounds. Gates are reached through narrow streets and alleys. Making all of the crowd pass through the metal detectors at short time frame is a recipe for disaster.

 

This isn't an argument embracing religious beliefs over rational ones, but rather a pragmatic one. As said, this was presented to the government, which decided otherwise, mainly for political reasons.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

Thankfully, nor is the rest of the world. Hopefully the rest of the world can get out of the Muddle East.

Let the Arab and Islam factions do what they do best - kill each other. Let countries that invade and seize land not belonging to them

receive the wrath of Islam. Anything that deflects murderous scum from M.E. running amok in civilised countries.

I am glad Israel is waving the red flag. (Message to all Islamists in the West. Know your enemy) A call to go home. 

 

Doesn't really have much to do with my post, though.

[anon4546543]

Just now, Morch said:

 

Doesn't really have much to do with my post, though.

True, your comments are well thought out and reasoned as to immediate security concerns and

why Palestinians and the rest of Islam has taken issue with what seems to be a security benefit to

all concerned. It does not take into account however,  as to why any action whatsoever by Israel

always results in further bloodshed. Thankfully this issue is at the moment confined to the ME..

Let us all hope it stays that way. The politics of warmongers always results in lives lost, in this case,

illegal Israeli settlers.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

True, your comments are well thought out and reasoned as to immediate security concerns and

why Palestinians and the rest of Islam has taken issue with what seems to be a security benefit to

all concerned. It does not take into account however,  as to why any action whatsoever by Israel

always results in further bloodshed. Thankfully this issue is at the moment confined to the ME..

Let us all hope it stays that way. The politics of warmongers always results in lives lost, in this case,

illegal Israeli settlers.

 

Not even sure what you're on about.  One post it's Europe, next it's illegal Israeli settlers.

I've never condoned Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories, quite the opposite. Never denied or ignored its contribution to the level of animosity. What I am referencing, though, is that each side got its religious nutters. Focusing solely on one group is not really an accurate representation of the situation.

 

[Here2008]

37 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Not even sure what you're on about.  One post it's Europe, next it's illegal Israeli settlers.

I've never condoned Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories, quite the opposite. Never denied or ignored its contribution to the level of animosity. What I am referencing, though, is that each side got its religious nutters. Focusing solely on one group is not really an accurate representation of the situation.

 

Whilst in general terms I agree I would point out that only one side has murderous intent which in the past has been directed at school children and only one side threatens to exterminate the other.

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by Here2008
typo

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed along with replies.