Drain smells from toilet in new house !!

[Andrew Dwyer]

Basically, I'm moving into a house that is a new build and one of the toilets has a drain smell, it's not the shower drain it's definitely the toilet bowl.

 

I've seen this before in a house I had built about 20 years ago ( not in Thailand ) and then it was a rubber seal between toilet bowl and the drain under the toilet. The toilet was removed, a new seal fitted and toilet reseated , this cured the problem.

 

My question is:

Is this the same setup here in Thailand ( I'm assuming it is international ) ?? Or is it different now ?

 

Or has anyone any other ideas before I get a builder in to take a look .

 

Many thanks in advance.

( please no toilet humour.......okay just a little bit ! )

[Artisi]

Look around the base of the toilet where it is fixed to the floor, typical Thai method is to place the bowl onto cement (a bit rough but it works),  see if any gaps. In my home I had 1 toilet with your problem - after much investigation I discovered that at the very rear of the toilet "foot" there were two hold-down fixture (bolt) holes (no bolts) - one of these was open which meant the fumes could enter the area,  - filled it with tile grout - problem cured.

[bankruatsteve]

If the toilet was dry that would explain.  If nothing from above shows up, maybe just give it a couple days of flushing.

[Artisi]

remember, the toilet has a built in "S" bend so nothing should come back thru' the bowl unless the overall system is under pressure (somehow) forcing fumes back thru' the bowl "S" bend.

 Is the system vented (don't be surprised if it isn't) assume you have an inground sewage tank - maybe remove the lid and try - should tell you if its under pressure.

[Andrew Dwyer]

remember, the toilet has a built in "S" bend so nothing should come back thru' the bowl unless the overall system is under pressure (somehow) forcing fumes back thru' the bowl "S" bend.
 Is the system vented (don't be surprised if it isn't) assume you have an inground sewage tank - maybe remove the lid and try - should tell you if its under pressure.

I remember back at the other house the sewage tank was under the pavement/sidewalk, a big concrete lid ( about 2 foot square) weighed a ton !!
Don't see any thing like that here unless it's in the jungle that passes for a garden !!
How big will this lid be, more or less, and what material is it made of.

The toilet bowl is indeed not bolted to the floor and there's 2 bolt holes at the back, will try to fill with grout or silicone etc , access to these holes is not easy though !

[carlyai]

Are you 100% sure the smell is from the toilet itself? If it is, you can now get new connection flanges from Global House.

Don't put silicone between the bowl and floor, it will stain and look 'orrible, use tile grout.

If you're not 100% sure, check the floor drain, many were not P-Trap type, with a little water in to stop the smell, or if P Trap type the water could have dried up and needs refilling.

 

Remounting the'bogger' use white cement under it, in the 2 holes at the back as well. Sticks like sh@$ to a blanket, as they say in the classics.[emoji3]

 

 

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[Andrew Dwyer]

I really want to avoid removing the throne if possible, so looking at others options first.

The house was finished build around a year ago and has stood vacant , with no water, since then.
There are 3 toilets, all had water in them ( well I think it was water) but the 3 showers have never been used so likely the p-trap ( if fitted ) is dry. I poured a couple of litres down them anyway.

I was gonna use silicone to fill the empty bolt holes only on the throne as I have some already and would not be seen right round the back but will hold off and buy some grout instead.
Two of the thrones have the bolt holes empty but the third has no visible bolt holes anywhere, something I've not seen before.

Only got the water meter fit a couple of days ago so only have a trickle.
Supposedly coming to fit tank and pump today ( he says looking at his watch and rolling his eyes ).

[Peterw42]

OP, it sounds like you have worked out its the toilet, but I spent a couple of days chasing a toilet smell only to find out it was the floor drain with a broken bell trap, no s or p trap under the floor, some of them only hold a very small amount of water and thai cleaning ladies love removing them. Often they get replaced with a standard drain cover without the bell. I had a cleaning lady that got a screwdriver and removed all the bells (because they get clogged) in the floor and shower.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Peterw42

[Andrew Dwyer]

OP, it sounds like you have worked out its the toilet, but I spent a couple of days chasing a toilet smell only to find out it was the floor drain with a broken bell trap, no s or p trap under the floor, some of them only hold a very small amount of water and thai cleaning ladies love removing them. Often they get replaced with a standard drain cover without the bell. I had a cleaning lady that got a screwdriver and removed all the bells (because they get clogged) in the floor and shower.

Thanks for the sketch Peter, I was imagining something much more complicated.
All the showers ( plus a couple of floor drains) have the bell shaped cover and all were dry, after all it is a tiny bit of water.

I'm not 100% convinced it is the toilet as my gf , in trying to help ([emoji36]) has scattered moth balls everywhere. So all I can smell now is mothballs !!

Have put water in the trap and will fill the holes in the toilet with grout and see in the morning.
Am in transition right now, not sleeping here, moving in over the next few days, guys outside fitting water and pump, so am just here waiting.
Bringing the big bits tomorrow ( fridge, wardrobe etc) in my buddy's pickup.

[carlyai]

Yeah the excuse for P Trap drain covers only hold a very small amount of water. See if the drain top turns and comes off. If it does you see a round cup underneath for the water. Due to evaporation they do dry out.

I'd guess you don't have them, so write a note on your handy white board to buy as many as you need from Global House. Global also have the diamond (in my case, round ) tile hole saw for fitting the new more betterer drain fittings that stop the smell.

In my not so new house, I was away while they did the bathrooms, so none of my toilets had those flexible rubber seals, just plastic pipe into the toilet; no p traps. So I repaired the lot and used silicon under the bogger, which stained with all SWMBO's cleaning, so that's how I know.

It's best to cultivate a nice Thai person who you can watch to do these jobs.

Now your new pump and tank. [emoji21][mention=14979]crossy[/mention] has a drawing of how it should go. Look on back TV pump posts.

Don't let anyone install your water until they see the drawing. Hand the drawing to the installer upside down, if he says 'yes, ok, no worries' get someone else.

 

EDIT

Wooppps, see you're past my post; still look at Crossy's drawing.

 

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[Andrew Dwyer]

Yeah the excuse for P Trap drain covers only hold a very small amount of water. See if the drain top turns and comes off. If it does you see a round cup underneath for the water. Due to evaporation they do dry out.
I'd guess you don't have them, so write a note on your handy white board to buy as many as you need from Global House. Global also have the diamond (in my case, round ) tile hole saw for fitting the new more betterer drain fittings that stop the smell.
In my not so new house, I was away while they did the bathrooms, so none of my toilets had those flexible rubber seals, just plastic pipe into the toilet; no p traps. So I repaired the lot and used silicon under the bogger, which stained with all SWMBO's cleaning, so that's how I know.
It's best to cultivate a nice Thai person who you can watch to do these jobs.
Now your new pump and tank. [emoji21][mention=14979]crossy[/mention] has a drawing of how it should go. Look on back TV pump posts.
Don't let anyone install your water until they see the drawing. Hand the drawing to the installer upside down, if he says 'yes, ok, no worries' get someone else.
 
EDIT
Wooppps, see you're past my post; still look at Crossy's drawing.
 
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Okay thanks for that, all good advice.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Now your new pump and tank. [emoji21][mention=14979]crossy[/mention] has a drawing of how it should go. Look on back TV pump posts.
Don't let anyone install your water until they see the drawing. Hand the drawing to the installer upside down, if he says 'yes, ok, no worries' get someone else.
 
EDIT
Wooppps, see you're past my post; still look at Crossy's drawing.
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Found Crossy's sketch and that how the guy did mine,



Added it on here in case some others are in doubt.

[inThailand]

In Isaan in 15 years I have never seen a P-trap installed voluntarily. Are you sure you have one?

[Crossy]

I too suspect no / dry traps. Once the smell of moth-balls diminishes try a saucer upside down over the floor drains, this should stop any pong coming up that way, remove to shower.

 

And here's my standard pump diagram:-

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

In Isaan in 15 years I have never seen a P-trap installed voluntarily. Are you sure you have one?

The word P-trap implies something like a u bend to me.
But what I have is a bell on the underside of drain cover which sits in a small amount of water in drain itself ( see sketch on post from Peterw42 ) , whether this is classified as a p-trap I don't know.

[carlyai]

@Andrew Dwyer

That's the P trap, probably not the correct name, but it's probably as good as you get.

 

Before I had to leave the house build (never, never leave a house build ) I left all these real blue plumbing P traps with instructions to SWMBO and builder and anyone around 'don't forget the P traps'.... "yes, yes double yes" were the replies.

Came back and there were all these P traps hanging around not installed. [emoji21]

 

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[inThailand]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

The word P-trap implies something like a u bend to me.
But what I have is a bell on the underside of drain cover which sits in a small amount of water in drain itself ( see sketch on post from Peterw42 ) , whether this is classified as a p-trap I don't know.

A P-trap is just down stream from the drain. It looks like an inverted P. Most likely it's improperly

 impeded in the cement floor or under it. Not easy to see or get at it and therefore not easy to rectify.

 

Does your sewer tank have a vent? ie usually a pvc pipe installed thru the tank cover and extending straight up.  

[carlyai]

Done well Andrew.

 

This is about your power not P traps.

 

As you've sorted the sewer and water, may as well check your power, to be safer.

 

Sorry for rambling on, and stressing you more, but check your power to see if you have a Safety Cut circuit breaker where the main power comes in. Look on TV for RCBO.

 

Think the cyclone predicted is nearly right overhead as biggest rains I've seen and reasonable winds.

 

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[Andrew Dwyer]

A P-trap is just down stream from the drain. It looks like an inverted P. Most likely it's improperly
 impeded in the cement floor or under it. Not easy to see or get at it and therefore not easy to rectify.
 
Does your sewer tank have a vent? ie usually a pvc pipe installed thru the tank cover and extending straight up.  

Haven't located the sewer tank, if it's in the garden it's covered by weed/grass/shrub right now, but I should be able to see the vent pipe ( if fitted ) ??

Am moving in today and waiting for my pickup buddy and it looks like rain, am getting stressed !! [emoji36]
It's been a tough week, some late nights and waiting for contractors, overseeing contractors, finding corners that have been cut ,etc, etc

[inThailand]

1 minute ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Haven't located the sewer tank, if it's in the garden it's covered by weed/grass/shrub right now, but I should be able to see the vent pipe ( if fitted ) ??

Am moving in today and waiting for my pickup buddy and it looks like rain, am getting stressed !!
It's been a tough week, some late nights and waiting for contractors, overseeing contractors, finding corners that have been cut ,etc, etc

Yes, its normally about a 1/2 inch diameter blue pvc pipe sticking up.

 

We feel for you. Building here is probably the most stressful thing you can do! Check for lost head hair!

[Andrew Dwyer]

Yes, its normally about a 1/2 inch diameter blue pvc pipe sticking up.
 
We feel for you. Building here is probably the most stressful thing you can do! Check for lost head hair!

Luckily I don't have much hair left to lose [emoji51].

I'm not building, I've bought a house on a Moobaan of around 30 houses, 3 or 4 left, the house has been empty for 1 year.
The company looks pretty efficient ( [emoji15]), the houses have been built in 2 or 3 stages , mine being one of the last ones, so they have learned from their mistakes !!
( what the hell am I thinking !! )

[Artisi]

Learn from past mistakes, what mistakes -  you farang don't understand. 

[impulse]

19 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

If the toilet was dry that would explain.  If nothing from above shows up, maybe just give it a couple days of flushing.

 

I have a 2nd bathroom in my apartment that I only use for storage.  Every few weeks, I have to run the sink and flush the toilet because evaporation leaves the p-traps empty enough for the sewer fumes to back up on me.  Usually, I'm proactive about it.  But occasionally I get an olfactory reminder.

 

That's in contrast to my apartment in China where a windy day will back up the fumes, no matter what I do.  It's the difference between having p-traps in BKK and not having them in China.

[BEVUP]

15 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, it sounds like you have worked out its the toilet, but I spent a couple of days chasing a toilet smell only to find out it was the floor drain with a broken bell trap, no s or p trap under the floor, some of them only hold a very small amount of water and thai cleaning ladies love removing them. Often they get replaced with a standard drain cover without the bell. I had a cleaning lady that got a screwdriver and removed all the bells (because they get clogged) in the floor and shower.

This post hit the nail on the head, Definetly  the drains as the only "S" bent you will find is in the toilet or under a basin/sink. I once switched to to the bells but cant find then now

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

This post hit the nail on the head, Definetly  the drains as the only "S" bent you will find is in the toilet or under a basin/sink. I once switched to to the bells but cant find then now

Yes, a lot of people dont realize that in older Thai houses/condos (and some new builds) there is no P trap, S trap, venting etc, the bell trap in the drain is the only trap. And some of them are rubbish, easily blocked, small amount of water evaporates in a day, and therefore often removed or replaced with a cover and no bell. 

If you do the rounds looking at properties to rent or buy, a large percentage have them removed, nothing between you and the sewer gases..

 

[BEVUP]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, a lot of people dont realize that in older Thai houses/condos (and some new builds) there is no P trap, S trap, venting etc, the bell trap in the drain is the only trap. And some of them are rubbish, easily blocked, small amount of water evaporates in a day, and therefore often removed or replaced with a cover and no bell. 

If you do the rounds looking at properties to rent or buy, a large percentage have them removed, nothing between you and the sewer gases..

 

I hate to say it but they don't even use them - just a straight drain hole & I'm in a pretty new estate, but they have vented the Tank even though they used one for us & the neighbor together (no wonder they kicked that builder out' not to mention his shitty work & the need for more money )

[Artisi]

31 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

I hate to say it but they don't even use them - just a straight drain hole & I'm in a pretty new estate, but they have vented the Tank even though they used one for us & the neighbor together (no wonder they kicked that builder out' not to mention his shitty work & the need for more money )

Venting the tank might help, but only if the resistance for the stink to escape  via the vent is lower than via the floor drain and even then you could still get some back thru the floor drain. 

[williamgeorgeallen]

20 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, it sounds like you have worked out its the toilet, but I spent a couple of days chasing a toilet smell only to find out it was the floor drain with a broken bell trap, no s or p trap under the floor, some of them only hold a very small amount of water and thai cleaning ladies love removing them. Often they get replaced with a standard drain cover without the bell. I had a cleaning lady that got a screwdriver and removed all the bells (because they get clogged) in the floor and shower.

dam thats clever. bit higher maintenance but would be worth it if the smell is bad. in the past i have used wet cloth put over the drain holes to reduce the smell.

[Farangdanny]

• You can be sure that your first suspicion is 100% correct. It has happened to me three times. The most recent one being new house in San Sai. I told the builder what was the problem, even bought him a new seal. He would not have it. He tried everything, even moved the septic tank !!!  Eventually agreed to put the seal in. Worked perfectly. Builders here don't want to fit the seals for some reason, just rely on grout to keep the smell away ! The first time, I saw them fit the toilet and leave the seal out. When I asked why, he said, it will cause problems in future if I fit it !!!!! Some toilets like American Standard, have a special pipe with seals incorporated.
•   Need to get it out and fit it properly.

[keithcresswell]

Took me years to realise that at the very back of the toilet (out of sight) there was a gap where it had been concreted to the floor. I filled it in and since have had no problem. Also it explained why we kept getting cockroaches in the house.