Brexit web tangled by spats over how to leave, Irish border

[rooster59]

Brexit web tangled by spats over how to leave, Irish border

By Guy Faulconbridge and David Milliken

 

Four thousand U.S. dollars are counted out by a banker counting currency at a bank in Westminster, Colorado November 3, 2009. REUTERS/Rick Wilking/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain's progress towards life outside the European Union became more entangled on Friday, with divisions deepening over Northern Ireland's border and even the type of divorce Britain actually wants.

 

The uncertainty coincided with the EU's top negotiator warning that formal talks are set to be delayed, eating up more of the two-year divorce timetable.

 

Negotiations on the future relationship between Britain and the EU are now less likely to start in October because of a lack of progress at the initial stage of talks about the breakup, Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier has told EU ambassadors.

 

Britain responded that it was confident that enough progress could be made to start the second stage of talks but as Prime Minister Theresa May holidayed in Italy, her ministers engaged in a public debate about how Brexit should look.

 

Finance minister Philip Hammond, who opposed leaving the EU in last year's referendum and has one eye on the business community, said there should be no immediate change to immigration or trading rules when Britain leaves.

 

A shift to new arrangements could last until mid-2022, he said, adding he wanted to avoid a cliff-edge. He stressed that British hospitals and care homes relied as much on EU migrant workers as many businesses.

 

"We've been clear that it will be some time before we are able to introduce full migration controls between the UK and the European Union," he told BBC radio.

 

May's loss of her majority in the British parliament with a botched gamble on a snap election has prompted an apparent softening of rhetoric on Brexit. But some EU member state diplomats say it now hard to discern what Britain wants.

 

Britain has less than two years to negotiate the terms of the divorce and the outlines of the future relationship before it is due to leave in late March 2019. Both sides need an agreement to keep trade flowing between the world's biggest trading bloc and the fifth largest global economy.

 

"In the immediate aftermath of leaving the European Union goods will continue to flow across the border between the UK and EU in much the same way as they do now," Hammond said.

 

Britain's economy weathered the immediate shock of last year's vote to leave the EU much better than the government and most analysts had predicted.

 

But growth in the first half of this year has been the weakest since 2012, and earlier on Friday a closely watched consumer survey showed sentiment was its weakest in a year. Households viewed the economy as the worst in four years.

 

BREXIT TRANSITION

 

May expects what she calls an implementation phase but she has given few details of how it would look. Any such deal will also be subject to discussion with the other 27 EU members.

 

Hammond's tone, meanwhile, is sharply different that of some other senior ministers in May's cabinet who want a cleaner break with the EU including swift controls on immigration.

 

"A transitional deal will delay all the benefits of being able to control our laws, trade and borders. We need to get on with it," said Richard Tice, a Brexiteer who helped fund one of the Leave campaigns in the EU referendum.

 

The anti-EU United Kingdom Independence Party said Hammond's words indicated uncontrolled EU immigration would continue for years after the 2019 leave date.

 

Late on Friday, the Daily Telegraph reported that Hammond and foreign minister Boris Johnson, who favours taking a tough stance with the EU on Brexit, had issued a joint statement saying they were "working together to take the UK out of the EU."

 

It made no mention of transitional arrangements, the newspaper said.

 

Government representatives were unable to immediately confirm the joint statement.

 

It was unclear whether Hammond's proposals would become government policy though the implications could be far reaching.

 

The proposals could be read to mean that Britain would continue to pay into EU coffers during the transition, continue to accept EU laws and even effectively accept its four freedoms allowing free movement of people, capital, goods and services.

 

"I am not sure if they fully know what they want themselves," one EU official who spoke on condition of anonymity said.

 

The European Commission said that discussions about a potential Brexit transition period could only begin one divorce issues are settled.

 

Before talks on a transition can begin, the EU wants to settle three main points: the future rights of expatriate citizens, the exit bill Britain has to pay and how to avoid the reimposition of border controls between the Republic of Ireland and the British province of Northern Ireland.

 

Neither side has proposed a solution to the Northern Ireland issue, which remains sensitive almost two decades after a peace deal ended years of violence in the province.

 

Ireland is against the imposition of an "economic border" with Northern Ireland and the Irish government is not going to help Britain design one, Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said.

 

He was speaking after Northern Irish protestant politicians propping up May's minority government reacted with fury to a report that Dublin wants customs checks on boats and planes between Britain and Ireland rather than along its land border with Northern Ireland.

 

Ireland's foreign minister said no such proposal existed. [L5N1KJ2TI]

 

"As far as this government is concerned there shouldn't be an economic border. We don't want one," Varadkar told reporters at a briefing in Dublin.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-07-29

 

[dick dasterdly]

Let's be entirely clear.

 

Any "spats" are down to money (edit - the EU has a gaping hole in the contributors column if the UK leaves), the rest can be easily sorted if the EU isn't determined to punish the UK for daring to vote to leave.....

Edited July 29, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[ilostmypassword]

25 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Let's be entirely clear.

 

Any "spats" are down to money (edit - the EU has a gaping hole in the contributors column if the UK leaves), the rest can be easily sorted if the EU isn't determined to punish the UK for daring to vote to leave.....

The biggest number I have seen for that "gaping hole" is 15 billion euros. Germany's total budget surplus was bigger than that.

[Orac]

I suppose there have now been so many brexit articles that the press have run out of stock photos that are even vaguely related to the subject - peak brexit fatigue setting in!

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Let's be entirely clear.

 

Any "spats" are down to money (edit - the EU has a gaping hole in the contributors column if the UK leaves), the rest can be easily sorted if the EU isn't determined to punish the UK for daring to vote to leave.....

Sorry Dick but that is very naïve in my opinion.  It is true that a figure needs to be agreed before we can continue with the negotiations but so far we haven't been able to agree on anything.  The Ireland issue is only a small part of the problems that the UK faces with this divorce and it certainly isn't just to do with money. It is about Britain's future and at the moment we are looking for some chink of light.

 

As for the EU punishing the UK.  Before the referendum Cameron said that there would be a high cost if we chose to leave the EU.  Do you really think that the government weren't made aware of the consequences of leaving the EU.  They all knew including Johnson and Gove but they never thought for a moment that people would vote to leave.  They were too busy playing power games.

[ilostmypassword]

One example shows how little thought the UK has given to the border problem. Just recently there was a discussion with the USA about importing chlorinated chickens from the USA. The problem is that this doesn't meet EU standards. So if the UK starts importing stuff that doesn't meet EU standards, then the EU will have to impose a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland to make sure the non compliant US items aren't reshipped for export to the UK.

[dunroaming]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

One example shows how little thought the UK has given to the border problem. Just recently there was a discussion with the USA about importing chlorinated chickens from the USA. The problem is that this doesn't meet EU standards. So if the UK starts importing stuff that doesn't meet EU standards, then the EU will have to impose a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland to make sure the non compliant US items aren't reshipped for export to the UK.

Desperate measures by Fox now trying to convince Brits to start importing chlorinated chickens from the US.  I guess a Fox will always want more chickens 

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

One example shows how little thought the UK has given to the border problem. Just recently there was a discussion with the USA about importing chlorinated chickens from the USA. The problem is that this doesn't meet EU standards. So if the UK starts importing stuff that doesn't meet EU standards, then the EU will have to impose a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland to make sure the non compliant US items aren't reshipped for export to the UK.

There is a very easy solution. And that is REUNIFICATION !!!

[Pikeybkk]

3 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

There is a very easy solution. And that is REUNIFICATION !!!

Yep, that is going to happen one waynor the other

[coulson]

What exactly does the counting of 4000 US dollars at a Colorado bank in 2009 have to do with this Brexit economic spat???

[chickenslegs]

5 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

There is a very easy solution. And that is REUNIFICATION !!!

It's definitely a solution and, IMHO, a desireable one - but "very easy"? Definitely not.

 

 

[superal]

Let me begin by saying that the small majority voted for Brexit . Which means that the huge minority have no say i.e. half the country have been isolated . Now having said that the exit voters will have no say on the outcome of negotiations  within another vote . Much of the dealing holds conflict of interests towards the corporations and their profits . As things stand I reckon that after all the talking the UK will still be in the EC unofficially . That is how bad a deal I believe  the UK will get . The UK will still be flooded with cheap foreign labour to be competitive with the EC countries , if not the UK companies will uproot to some  cheaper European option . I think we all understand that .  My prediction is this . The deal will be so controversial that we will see the reemergence of N. Farage who may well get into bed with J. Corbyn  , effecting another general election .

The tail seems to be wagging the dog with the Irish border debate , easier to drop Northern Ireland out of the UK , nothing but problems. .   Unless you know better        Come on Nigel 

[chickenslegs]

11 minutes ago, superal said:

The deal will be so controversial that we will see the reemergence of N. Farage who may well get into bed with J. Corbyn  ...

More chance of Kim Jong-un getting into bed with Moon Jai-in.

[Richard W]

10 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

There is a very easy solution. And that is REUNIFICATION !!!

I don't think the 26 counties will agree to recreating the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Richard W
Miscounted

[Kiwiken]

12 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

There is a very easy solution. And that is REUNIFICATION !!!

Are you suggesting Britain annex Ireland again?

The troubles are not that far below the surface. Still better a problem left to the EU. Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and the Falklands are still part of the UK by choice. They have the right to decide. I am sure there is a simpler solution than unifying the Irish with the Scots/Irish provinces

Edited July 30, 2017 by Kiwiken
Added to

[terryw]

The EU-Brexit negotiations are mainly about the EU budget deficit when the UK leaves.

 

If the UK helps them to overcome the budget problem everything else will be quickly agreed. Probably 25-30 Euros will be enough.

 

As for the Irish, the border is their problem and their new Prime Minister clearly does not understand the issues regarding the UK-NI relationship with his own country. He seems to want to stir up trouble by going back to the 1960's and 70's. He is from a younger generation with little personal experience of the Troubles.

Edited July 30, 2017 by terryw

[sawadee1947]

On 7/30/2017 at 4:29 AM, Richard W said:

I don't think the 26 counties will agree to recreating the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

very funny