Yellow book runaround - I've given up !

[YetAnother]

41 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Free at some offices maybe

Mine charges 1500 and demands a stack of documents and 2 photos

i imagine that office gives you trouble all across the board

[Orton Rd]

43 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Free at some offices maybe

Mine charges 1500 and demands a stack of documents and 2 photos

Free at samut prakan and done while I waited, did they give you a receipt if not it's corruption

[inThailand]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

Not just foreigners who get the run around in the bureaucratic treadmill here. Last week went with 2 Thais to land office in Lam Lu ka they just wanted to transfer a house from one name to another. This took two full days of waiting, over an hour initially at a desk being processed, calls to three other offices for signatures and papers. Went to one large office did not see another customer there yet scores of officers in uniforms, just wanted a signature- sorry he's gone to eat- that was at 11.30. Three different visits to the land office ending with going back with three bits of paper signed elsewhere on the last day. At the close of day one we had to wait about for them to announce the transfer to see if there were any objections from anybody. At least it keeps a lot of paper shufflers in a job! I have will not be bothering with their silly yellow book.

I love it here but hate doing any business with the govt. 

 

Even our local Mackro is acting like the Thai govt now. They will not allow you to purchase anything without getting a tourist card which is just a piece paper that they then recycle and has absolutely no use. This must one of most craziest things I have experienced.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, YetAnother said:

i imagine that office gives you trouble all across the board

 

well,

what I do there is 90-day reports and the yearly extension of stay and multiple re-entry permits, all 3 smooth as silk and take short time only

and no charge for 90 day and standard charge for extension of stay and multiple re-entry permit.

 

the 1500/CoR is a step forward compared to 4 years ago (last time I needed a CoR),

then they quite simply flatly refused to issue one even though the CoR was required by another government branch.

in the end the other government body (Marine Department) backed down and issued the relevant papers without

me having a CoR.

 

 

[Tanoshi]

23 hours ago, inThailand said:

"Just some of the things I do using my TB and ID card."

 

And the following can be done just as easy without either a yellow book or a Thai Id card...

 

Renew my Thai Driving Licence.

---Just need old drivers license.

Purchase a vehicle.

---Passport and tabien baan.

Renew Road tax.

---Just need cash and title book.

Renew vehicle Insurance.

---Money only.

Tax registration and annual returns

---Tax Id number and passport. 

Book and travel on internal flights.

---Passport or Thai DL.

Opening new bank accounts.

----Only passport needed.

 

 

You forgot to mention the numerous photocopies you require.

So your using your TB as proof of address, but still using your Passport as ID.

 

So, my question would be;

Why are you using and carrying your Passport around as opposed to not using your Thai ID card that fits nicely in a wallet, and easily replaced in the event of loss.

[Tanoshi]

21 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The references I find to "Decree Nisi" are usually relating to divorce, before the divorce is finalized. 
In the case of other singles, would an "affirmation of freedom to marry" have the same function with regards to a Yellow Book application?  Granted, that still requires an embassy-visit (and fee), plus translation plus MFA-certification - just curious if this is what they are after - proof of single/married status. 

That really depends on the 'required documents' each Province requires to meet their criteria.

 

There is no reference to marital status in section 38, but if a Provinces administration want to include that as a condition of issuing a TB, then so be it, although I don't understand why. 

 

A Tabien Baan has no record or section within it detailing your marital status......so it's a strange requirement.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Tanoshi

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, inThailand said:

I love it here but hate doing any business with the govt. 

 

Even our local Mackro is acting like the Thai govt now. They will not allow you to purchase anything without getting a tourist card which is just a piece paper that they then recycle and has absolutely no use. This must one of most craziest things I have experienced.

Why haven't you applied for a Makro card?

[inThailand]

20 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

You forgot to mention the numerous photocopies you require.

So your using your TB as proof of address, but still using your Passport as ID.

 

So, my question would be;

Why are you using and carrying your Passport around as opposed to not using your Thai ID card that fits nicely in a wallet, and easily replaced in the event of loss.

Like many I get a creditcard size colored lamented copy of my passport and visa which fits nicely in my money clip. With cash, ATM card and drivers license what else do you need on daily basis. 

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, inThailand said:

I love it here but hate doing any business with the govt. 

 

Even our local Mackro is acting like the Thai govt now. They will not allow you to purchase anything without getting a tourist card which is just a piece paper that they then recycle and has absolutely no use. This must one of most craziest things I have experienced.

They are following the "Sam's Club" and "Costco" model from those USA-outlets.  It is about being able to know what a specific customer purchases, which is very valuable information to have and/or sell for marketing purposes.

The govt, by contrast, is after knowing "who is where" and "who knows (has connections to) whom" - for national-security purposes.  Oftentimes, however, the bureaucratic nature of govt (no market-based efficiency motivation) creates a process of requesting of useless (and/or easily faked) documentation - adding "data-noise" which contradicts the purpose of the laws/policies that initiated collection of the data.  A "home visit" has more value than a pile of papers saying someone lives at X-location - but that takes manpower to execute.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Why haven't you applied for a Makro card?

Do I need a translation of Decree Nisi ?
If not, I'm all in [emoji51]

[inThailand]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

They are following the "Sam's Club" and "Costco" model from those USA-outlets.  It is about being able to know what a specific customer purchases, which is very valuable information to have and/or sell for marketing purposes.

The govt, by contrast, is after knowing "who is where" and "who knows (has connections to) whom" - for national-security purposes.  Oftentimes, however, the bureaucratic nature of govt (no market-based efficiency motivation) creates a process of requesting of useless (and/or easily faked) documentation - adding "data-noise" which contradicts the purpose of the laws/policies that initiated collection of the data.  A "home visit" has more value than a pile of papers saying someone lives at X-location - but that takes manpower to execute.

This Mackro tourist paper card is free, requires no info from you and has no bar code or Id number. It is worthless and that makes it even more annoying. It may well be their way to inconvenience customers so they sign up for card. 

 

In the past, they used to just scan a generic card taped to the register if you lacked a card. Now they key in a generic number. They are going backwards!

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, inThailand said:

This Mackro tourist paper card is free, requires no info from you and has no bar code or Id number. It is worthless and that makes it even more annoying. It may well be their way to inconvenience customers so they sign up for card. 

You can get a permanent card. You apply for it and pick it up a few days later.

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Do I need a translation of Decree Nisi ?
If not, I'm all in

No, but a BA in Nuclear Physics and Reactor Theory may come in handy.

 

Although a few years ago now, they gave me an application form (in English), basic details such as name and address.

I remember not having any documents at hand, but still able to complete the form.

 

I collected it a week later, in store, just as they advised.

[jeab1980]

From yellow book to a friging Macro card. Its harder to get a bloody Macro card in the UK than it was in Thailand.

Some people put there own percived obstacles in there mind in the way of normal thinking, there attitude  is  Cant be bothered to apply beacuse they MIGHT want. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by jeab1980

[Tanoshi]

28 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The govt, by contrast, is after knowing "who is where" and "who knows (has connections to) whom" - for national-security purposes.  Oftentimes, however, the bureaucratic nature of govt (no market-based efficiency motivation) creates a process of requesting of useless (and/or easily faked) documentation - adding "data-noise" which contradicts the purpose of the laws/policies that initiated collection of the data.  A "home visit" has more value than a pile of papers saying someone lives at X-location - but that takes manpower to execute.

From my experiences, the central Government makes the laws.

 

From there each Provinces administration division, although complying with the law, dictates the procedures to follow in order to comply.They act 'autonomously' as regions, different rules, different forms, different processes. 

The Thais themselves have issues with various administration procedures, not just foreigners. 

 

My wife has no issues at government departments within the Province she is registered, but go to another Province and they cannot access her details within her home province. She is instructed to return with a form of some kind. 

Even she describes it as 'crazy'.

[Andrew Dwyer]

From yellow book to a friging Macro card. Its harder to get a bloody Macro card in the UK than it was in Thailand.
Some people put there own percived obstacles in there mind in the way of normal thinking, there attitude  is  Cant be bothered to apply beacuse they MIGHT want. 

My dad had a Macro card in the UK ( he was a teacher ) but I just used to borrow his card when I went .
Here you have to spend a nominal amount to get the card at the store I applied, but it's a trivial amount like 200 baht !
They give them out like candy, but that's the way it should be, if they want you to spend in their store they should make it easy for you.

My gf has all the clubcards, Big C, Lotus, Makro, Homepro, Mega Home etc etc.

She's like the Imelda Marcos of clubcards [emoji3]

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

My dad had a Macro card in the UK ( he was a teacher ) but I just used to borrow his card when I went .
Here you have to spend a nominal amount to get the card at the store I applied, but it's a trivial amount like 200 baht !
They give them out like candy, but that's the way it should be, if they want you to spend in their store they should make it easy for you.

My gf has all the clubcards, Big C, Lotus, Makro, Homepro, Mega Home etc etc.

She's like the Imelda Marcos of clubcards

Play your Cards Right!

 

What do points make.................?

[jeab1980]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Play your Cards Right!

 

What do points make.................?

Is that thing still breathing?

[Andrew Dwyer]

Is that thing still breathing?

Good game good game !!


89 years old, still breathing, but only just apparently !!

[melvinmelvin]

who is the thing?

 

a yellow book would match his hair colour

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

who is the thing?
 
a yellow book would match his hair colour
 
 

And his teeth colour !! ( allegedly )

Bruce Forsyth , an old UK entertainer, singer , dancer , collector of young wives !!

[jeab1980]

25 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

who is the thing?

 

a yellow book would match his hair colour

 

 

The thing is in the picture

[tdm]

On 01/08/2017 at 2:40 PM, Andrew Dwyer said:

Some people would disagree with you, but for the amount of hassle getting mine is proving to be i can see your point !!
 

I'd say stick with it till you get the yellow book. Until recently I got my residence certificates from immigration at no charge, however they no longer issue them and refer you to the embassy which charge 2300 baht in my case, albeit it's valid for one year. Point in case when renewing my driving licence the department of transport advised me they will accept the yellow book or the letter from my embassy, things change and so down the road the yellow book may come in handy.

[cliveshep]

To get back to the OP's question 12 pages back.

 

I wanted a yellow book, so we went to the District office for Khlong Sam Wa. They too were most pleasant and demanded all the translated and certified documents previously mentioned, they were a total pain and it cost a fortune but I needed the docs for an extension of stay anyway.

 

As a UK citizen married to a Thai girl in the UK I had to get:

 

My birth certificate Apostille stamped by the Royal Thai Embassy.

The Marriage certificate ditto

My passport copied and certified by the British Embassy in Bangkok.

 

All pages of my passport photocopied, translated, legalised including incredibly the Thai Embassy Multiple Entry Visa.

 

Then I had to get ALL of those translated, and then legalised by the MFA (that in itself was an exercise) and photo-copied.

I did lovely colour scans, they insisted black and white done on an old copier outside at 10 baht a sheet - smudged and illegible they were nevertheless acceptable over my perfect high resolution colour scan copies.

 

Then they insisted on me employing a certified interpreter to attend a meeting as I don't speak Thai. My wife's English was better but, not acceptable as she might be scamming me!

 

Finally, after walking out in disgust at one point, I told them bluntly in English that they were taking the piss and that I would go to the Ombudsman I was so angry, a date was set for the Yellow book - took a few weeks and loads of visits and we did the marriage Registration and my wife's change of blue book name and new ID card at the same time.

 

Then they had the Office No2 and No, 1 bosses interview me, asking loads of questions until they had nothing else to think of.

 

They made a public handing over ceremony with the yellow book, appears they gave me the first one, and this is just up the road from Bangkok! The top official insisted on being photographed with me as though he had done anything - which he had not. 

 

The pink ID card took minutes only after all that although they discovered some anomaly in paperwork, a mistake THEY had made which involved loads more photocopying by them and paper signing by me - I have no idea what it was all about. I got the pink card. .

 

So I can testify that they made it all very difficult and expensive BUT all the papers I got legalised I use every year for extension of stay so actually nothing was wasted, they just demanded them for the wrong thing although my wife managed to change her name and ID along the way so possibly that might explain the Apostille docs translated and legalised.

 

I just followed herself's orders, sign here she tells me so I did, repeatedly. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

To get back to the OP's question 12 pages back.
 
I wanted a yellow book, so we went to the District office for Khlong Sam Wa. They too were most pleasant and demanded all the translated and certified documents previously mentioned, they were a total pain and it cost a fortune but I needed the docs for an extension of stay anyway.
 
As a UK citizen married to a Thai girl in the UK I had to get:
 
My birth certificate Apostille stamped by the Royal Thai Embassy.
The Marriage certificate ditto
My passport copied and certified by the British Embassy in Bangkok.
 
All pages of my passport photocopied, translated, legalised including incredibly the Thai Embassy Multiple Entry Visa.
 
Then I had to get ALL of those translated, and then legalised by the MFA (that in itself was an exercise) and photo-copied.
I did lovely colour scans, they insisted black and white done on an old copier outside at 10 baht a sheet - smudged and illegible they were nevertheless acceptable over my perfect high resolution colour scan copies.
 
Then they insisted on me employing a certified interpreter to attend a meeting as I don't speak Thai. My wife's English was better but, not acceptable as she might be scamming me!
 
Finally, after walking out in disgust at one point, I told them bluntly in English that they were taking the piss and that I would go to the Ombudsman I was so angry, a date was set for the Yellow book - took a few weeks and loads of visits and we did the marriage Registration and my wife's change of blue book name and new ID card at the same time.
 
Then they had the Office No2 and No, 1 bosses interview me, asking loads of questions until they had nothing else to think of.
 
They made a public handing over ceremony with the yellow book, appears they gave me the first one, and this is just up the road from Bangkok! The top official insisted on being photographed with me as though he had done anything - which he had not. 
 
The pink ID card took minutes only after all that although they discovered some anomaly in paperwork, a mistake THEY had made which involved loads more photocopying by them and paper signing by me - I have no idea what it was all about. I got the pink card. .
 
So I can testify that they made it all very difficult and expensive BUT all the papers I got legalised I use every year for extension of stay so actually nothing was wasted, they just demanded them for the wrong thing although my wife managed to change her name and ID along the way so possibly that might explain the Apostille docs translated and legalised.
 
I just followed herself's orders, sign here she tells me so I did, repeatedly. 

Wow, I think you have more patience than me !

But, congratulations on not letting the beggars grind you down .

[melvinmelvin]

On 4.8.2017 at 5:22 AM, melvinmelvin said:

 

well,

what I do there is 90-day reports and the yearly extension of stay and multiple re-entry permits, all 3 smooth as silk and take short time only

and no charge for 90 day and standard charge for extension of stay and multiple re-entry permit.

 

the 1500/CoR is a step forward compared to 4 years ago (last time I needed a CoR),

then they quite simply flatly refused to issue one even though the CoR was required by another government branch.

in the end the other government body (Marine Department) backed down and issued the relevant papers without

me having a CoR.

 

 

 

thought I would add a comment to this

 

did my renewal of extension of stay and bought a new multiple re-entry permit earlier this week.

(Nonthaburi Immigration this is)

 

has previously been quite swift doing this, of course depending on the number of people in front of you in the queue,

but as soon as you are through the queue it goes rapidly

 

they call it one stop service

ie the same IO doing extension of stay and multiple re-enty and handling the satang

quite rapid if you have your papers in order, they even do the copying for me of today's visa for the re-entry bit

 

quite painless and rapid procedure

 

now the whole thing has been redesigned,

did my extension of stay, paid satang, chap didn't give change, said change later,

but he did all the proper stamping in the passport while I was looking

didn't do re-entry as before, he said now you go desk 2

 

right,

back to the queue organisers, said I want a ticket for re-entry,

they asked, where is your passport, over there over there I said,

right

wait until you have your passport, then back here for a queue ticket,

that wait took an hour

 

got my passport - then got re-entry queue ticket,

didn't take long, chap did the stamping and did make a coy of today's visa for me

also gave me change for the fee.

didna give me the passport though

new check and wait

 

took another hour

 

and I was photographed 3 times

 

(I wonder, 300 years from now, what will archeologists think of all this photos copies signatures and shit

 will they make sense of it or think that we masturbated over passport copies?)

 

so a straight forward one stop service 30 minutes session has now been increased to 2 hours +

I do hope that the IOs see significant gain in this new crap, customers don't

 

[YetAnother]

no, you do not HAVE to have this, i lived here for years never needing one; there are a few cases where local items might go smoother with one; but there we are: 'depends....';

for me, it forms a third form of photo id, PP,DL,now this;

in my case, the addresses on all 3 are different; so my next DL renewal, current(new) location should reflect the yellow book address, thus it should help;

else, the chatter is a 'letter from immigration' ,which for me is like a visit to the dentist

[Gary A]

My farang friends got their yellow books from a much larger amphur than I live in. Immigration wanted me to get a yellow book. I took my wife and we went to the amphur. Since the boss lady didn't want to admit that she didn't know how to do it, she started telling me all the requirements I needed to get one. That included a visit to Bangkok to two different places. I made the mistake of telling her that my friends were in and out of their amphur office and had their books the same day. Obviously that made her angry so we left. During my next trip to immigration, I explained the problem and they told me that I really didn't need one. The issue came up again when I renewed my driver's license. I had to go to immigration and get a certificate of residence. That was a hassle and I still don't have a yellow book.

[jeab1980]

when friends ask me about about getting married here what they need ect. I tell them and also tell them to get a copy of there passort  and birth certificate and divorce or death certificate certified whilst at the Embassy. Then after there married get the marriage papers translated to English and the birth/passport/divorce/death certificate which have been certified translated to thai using an agent he sends them to MFA for them to certify all done then your covered for anything they may throw at you.