My new thai lawyer advised me that I won't face any problem going back to thailand

[humbleguy]

Even though I got 60 days visa from thai consular in canada,but i still confused .

The thai consular told me repeatedly that I shouldn't worry about going back to thailand. Nothing is gonna happen to me. By the way my lawyer went to immigration last week and she printed my old file from immigration database and this is the email I got from her yesterday. Plz read it very carefully and give me ur best advice :

 

UPDATE

 

Regarding the letter we were sent to the immigration we have follow up with them and they confirmed in verbal and can not provide the formal letter state as below :

 

- you as the prohibit person into Kingdom of Thailand however you can appeal after 5 years (they released the letter from 07.02.2012) so mean now if you arrive to Thailand and they stop you to get in the country you have the right to appeal.

 

Now as you received new passport when you plan to come to Thailand?

 

Please note they may record with your name ,last name, date of birth , nationality so if you travel and arrive to Thailand they may stop you at arrival then as I been advise before you can apply from there too but they give you for less than 7 days to appeal.

 

Best regards,

 

Amy

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tonray]

So it sounds like you have completed your 5 year ban then ? If you have finished it makes sense you should be able to return. 

[Here2008]

*humleguy*   The email you say you received, after careful reading,  says nothing other than you have a 'right of appeal'  It goes on to say you can(will?) be identified if seeking entry to Thailand and that at that point you would also be able to appeal any refusal of entry.

 

Anything a Thai consul (who are not involved with immigration issues) should be disregarded.

 

I think you should seek a more reliable appraisal of exactly what your Thai immigration status actually is.

[lkv]

12 minutes ago, tonray said:

So it sounds like you have completed your 5 year ban then ? If you have finished it makes sense you should be able to return. 

There was no 5 year ban back in 2012. Overstay bans were introduced more recently. The OP i believe was banned under section 12.7 and got a lifetime ban. What his lawyer is saying is that this lifetime ban can be appealed after 5 years.

 

That's my understanding of what is being said here.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, humbleguy said:

you as the prohibit person into Kingdom of Thailand however you can appeal after 5 years (they released the letter from 07.02.2012) so mean now if you arrive to Thailand and they stop you to get in the country you have the right to appeal.

As far as I know you cannot appeal a blacklisting on arrival in the country.

Only a denial of entry under section 12 of the immigration act can be appealed under section 22 and you would be denied entry under clause 10 of it that cannot be appealed.

Quote

10. Being a person prohibited by the Minister under Section 16.

Quote

Section 16 : In the instance where for reason of national welfare or safeguarding the public peace ,
culture , morality , or welfare , or when the Minister considers it improper to allow any alien or any group
of alien to enter into the Kingdom , the Minister shall have power to exclude said alien or group aliens
from entering into the Kingdom.

Quote

Section 22 : In the instance where the competent official discovers that an alien is forbidden from
entering into the Kingdom under the provisions of Section 12 , the competent official shall have authority
to order said alien by written notification to leave the Kingdom. If said alien is not satisfied with the
competent official’s order , he ( alien ) may appeal to the Minister. The order of the Minister shall be final.
Appealling cases are not allowed under Section 12 (1) or (10) , but if the Minister does not have an order
within seven days beginning from the date of submitting the appeal, it is considered that the Minister has
ordered that said alien is not forbidden from entering into the Kingdom under Section 12. Appeal must be
submitted the competent official within forty – eight hours beginning from the time of received said order
from the competent official and must comply with the pattern ( and a fee must be paid ) an provided in the
Ministerial Regulations. When appeal is submitted by the alien concerned , the competent official shall
delay deportation of said alien until an order for said case is receive from the Minister. While processing
under order of the competent official or while waiting for an order from the Minister , as the case may be ,
the provisions of Section 20 shall not be applied.

You can download and read the immigration act if you want to. Immigration Act B.E. 2522 English translation

[humbleguy]

Yes but I am not 100% sure if I can return to thailand peacefully. It is been for a while .anyway
My visa still valid before august 8th . But I am not ready yet to go back before October.
Is anyone knows the Thailand bail?? Who are these people? ? Are they lawyers or law firm whatever u call them. They contacted me yesterday thru email then I
Phoned them today,seems to me that they are legitimate law firm. Does anybody knows them??

[Tanoshi]

What was the reason for your ban?

[humbleguy]

What was the reason for your ban?

Property overstay.

[humbleguy]

My lawyer already explained to me that there is no lifetime ban for overstayers.

[JackThompson]

If you can now appeal your lifetime-ban (that is what it was?), due to the 5 years passing, then I would hire competent Thai counsel to make your appeal and get a judgement before attempting to enter.  If you need to be in Thailand for some part of this, your counsel would need to get permission from Immigration for you to enter for that purpose.

 

Hopefully, someone here can recommend a good lawyer for the task. 

[darrendsd]

What is property overstay?

 

If you were given a lifetime ban then you will not be able to enter unless you have appealed and overturned the lifetime ban

 

If you were given a 5 year ban and that 5 years has now finished you should have no issues in returning however you may face a few questions from Immigration

 

All this is speculation as your posts do not contain enough details for people to be able to help you

[Tanoshi]

Bans of 5 years just weren't issued in 2012 for simple overstay breaches.

There is more to this than your telling!

[FritsSikkink]

15 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Bans of 5 years just weren't issued in 2012 for simple overstay breaches.

There is more to this than your telling!

More info here:

 

 

[lkv]

Right OK.

 

I just went through the previous 15 page thread again:

 

 

To summarize:

 

- You were picked up by Immigration at 6 am on Feb 6 or Feb 7, 2012, along with another group of foreigners when the building you were staying in was raided. You were then taken to IDC, where you stayed until you were deported on March 2, 2012.

 

- You were not on overstay when you were arrested, your permission of stay was expiring on Feb 14, 2012.

 

- You were banned under section 12.7 for reasons apparently related to fraud. I am not discussing here your guilt or not, I'm just stating facts from your previous thread.

 

-You attempted to enter Thailand again in 2014 with no luck and you were denied entry upon arrival.

 

- The deportation stamp does not state the duration of the ban, so only Immigration would know if it's 5 years or more or lifetime.

 

Can I ask again, who told you it's a 5 year ban?

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by lkv

[Restinpeace]

I remember this thread from way back. People don't get 100 year bans for nothing. Also, it's likely immigration targeted that specific apartment/condo block for many reasons..ie. a hub of some kind of criminal activity. If there are a LOT of foreigners overstaying in the same area then something is seriously wrong.

 

So maybe they got him for visa issues but decided to perma-ban him simply because he was associated or around known criminals up to a lot more nefarious activity. He only has 95 more years to go before the ban is up.

 

[007 RED]

10 hours ago, lkv said:

Right OK.

 

I just went through the previous 15 page thread again:

 

 

To summarize:

 

- You were picked up by Immigration at 6 am on Feb 6 or Feb 7, 2012, along with another group of foreigners when the building you were staying in was raided. You were then taken to IDC, where you stayed until you were deported on March 2, 2012.

 

If you go back to the OPs original post on page 6 (dated 2 March), he states:

 

“I was  in my room sleeping.  The Immigration  raided us very early morning,,.it was around 6:30am, they raided all areas ,all soundings, so many people living that area, they raided almost 4 complex apartment.  Majority of people  living here are overstayers, if my number is correct,, almost 70 people  r overstayers for long time in thailand..but I never play with visa,very careful  person..it was thrusday  feb20,2012”.

 

If you look at the date on the deportation notice (TM35) which he posted on page 12 (dated 7 March) it is dated 2 February 2012... some 18 days before he claims that he was arrested.

 

Based upon the limited information that the OP has given, I have a feeling that there is a lot more to this than we are being told.  As has already been pointed out, bans for overstay were only introduced last year, and for someone to get a 'life time ban' he must have done something seriously wrong.  IOs don't give that sort of ban for no reason.

 

 

[lkv]

16 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

If you go back to the OPs original post on page 6 (dated 2 March), he states:

 

“I was  in my room sleeping.  The Immigration  raided us very early morning,,.it was around 6:30am, they raided all areas ,all soundings, so many people living that area, they raided almost 4 complex apartment.  Majority of people  living here are overstayers, if my number is correct,, almost 70 people  r overstayers for long time in thailand..but I never play with visa,very careful  person..it was thrusday  feb20,2012”.

 

If you look at the date on the deportation notice (TM35) which he posted on page 12 (dated 7 March) it is dated 2 February 2012... some 18 days before he claims that he was arrested.

 

Based upon the limited information that the OP has given, I have a feeling that there is a lot more to this than we are being told.  As has already been pointed out, bans for overstay were only introduced last year, and for someone to get a 'life time ban' he must have done something seriously wrong.  IOs don't give that sort of ban for no reason.

 

 

The OP admitted eventually in the previous thread that he mixed up the exact dates and in fact they were busted before. He said around 6 Feb 2012. I missed the 2 February thing, but either way he was taken in IDC with a valid permission of stay.

 

So he was not on overstay at that time.

 

As I have said before, I don't want to discuss whether he is or isn't guilty of we are not sure what (fraud is mentioned i believe in some of those documents), he says he is not, was in the wrong place at the wrong time and would not pay a bribe. It has already been discussed in the previous thread and he would not tell us the full story even if there was a more complex story behind it.

 

Regardless, he was banned under section 12.7

 

Question is, what is the duration of the ban. Is he being told by lawyers it's 5 years and is that accurate, or is it a longer / lifetime ban? As far as I know, bans derived out of 12.7 are likely lifetime.

Edited August 1, 2017 by lkv

[tolsti]

sounds like large scale central heating rooms.

[sanuk711]

Is it worth coming back with all those hassels overhanging you....? There's other options with Vietnam etc going ahead.

.

I knew of someone in a similar situation who just changed last name (UK -by deed poll )--says if asked he would have told them---but apparently no one at entry asked.

 

But of course I wouldn't advise anyone to do anything----that is not 100% honest in Thailand

[Stronghorse]

First thing you have to do is get a proper lawyer. I can recommend Juslaws law firm. You can Google them to look for phone number. Please ask for Ted Pianko. He speaks fluent English.

Second is they would need ALL documents that you were given and that you used at the time of the arrest. Most importantly your passport at that time.

Third from my personal experience as a retired RCMP officer residing in Bangkok. Back in 2012 there was no blacklist, unless the crime you committed was far more than overstay. Another thing they could have done to screw you up more is Mark your deportation reason with a serious offense. To my understanding talking to my Thai wife who is a captain in immigration. They could have marked you with a offense in which in 2012 that had a lifetime ban. Such as drug peddler, child prostitution, child pornography or something along this line. This would ultimately and automatically have your name in the system permanently. 

Now please also take this into consideration. The Thai immigration system is now fully computerized. Plus the system also has access to the Canadian immigration database and American database as of beginning 2016.

So please get a proper lawyer so they can gather TRUTHFUL details and material records from you to check in a accurate and proper manner.

Now I have a very strong suspicion that you are a landed immigrant status in Canada. If you havethis conviction in the Thailand immigration system. Canadian immigration will be able to see this next time they check your immigration file. Since Canada has a very strict immigration policy of automatic rejection of all immigration applicants with a criminal record in any country. Your Canadian immigration status is also in jeopardy. They can deport you after a deportation hearing for lying on your application process for criminal offenses whether convicted or not. 

I highly suggest you get this straightened out before they boot you from Canada also.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Stronghorse

[blackson]

humbleguy, what is your country of origin and birth?

[joecoolfrog]

I am not being pedantic but the grammar in that email from your lawyer is appalling.  Are they actually qualified ?

[lkv]

1 hour ago, Stronghorse said:

Plus the system also has access to the Canadian immigration database and American database as of beginning 2016.

Seriously?

 

What can I say other than...wow that's impressive.

 

Sorry, is this the same system that only functions on Internet Explorer?

Edited August 1, 2017 by lkv

[bberrythailand]

7 hours ago, humbleguy said:

Property overstay.

 

What is property overstay ?

 

 

 

[NanLaew]

15 minutes ago, lkv said:

Seriously?

 

What can I say other than...wow that's impressive.

 

Sorry, is this the same system that only functions on Internet Explorer?

The Thai Immigration systems are also accessible by US and Canadian Immigration on a reciprocal basis (one of the perks when you are the provider of the Thai Immigration computer systems).

 

Not so funny if you are a dodgy bugger but nobody else should be too concerned.

[lkv]

10 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The Thai Immigration systems are also accessible by US and Canadian Immigration on a reciprocal basis (one of the perks when you are the provider of the Thai Immigration computer systems).

 

Not so funny if you are a dodgy bugger but nobody else should be too concerned.

Surely you must be talking about arrest warrants perhaps or something within those lines.

 

Are you saying that Immigration in Thailand ( a corrupt third world country -sorry- ) can press some buttons and tap into the US Immigration system and find one's Immigration history in the US for example?

 

It's hard to believe the Americans would give access to something like that.

 

A spyware of some sort in the software used by Thais, yeah that I can believe :)

Edited August 1, 2017 by lkv

[MaksimMislavsky]

1 hour ago, bberrythailand said:

What is property overstay ?

Maybe didn't pay his rent in time?

[ericthai]

9 hours ago, humbleguy said:

Yes but I am not 100% sure if I can return to thailand peacefully. It is been for a while .anyway
My visa still valid before august 8th . But I am not ready yet to go back before October.
Is anyone knows the Thailand bail?? Who are these people? ? Are they lawyers or law firm whatever u call them. They contacted me yesterday thru email then I
Phoned them today,seems to me that they are legitimate law firm. Does anybody knows them??

 

Would be really helpful if you explain if you were banned, who told you this and when. Were you deported from Thailand. Thai embassy or consultant will issue a visa but they dont check any blacklist.

 

You said you have a visa valid until aug 8th but dont want to go until Oct.  why did you get a visa already? 

be very careful using lawyers / agents 

 

[humbleguy]

U stated ur previous messages that : i was banned under section 12.7 relating to fraud. How hell u know that this was related to fraud, i dont think u know what u r talking about?? U just accusing me that i was banned because of fraud. Let us break down ur statement or let me look up what is exactly mean the word " fraud"



Fraud
In law, fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right. Fraud itself can be a civil wrong (i.e., a fraud victim may sue the fraud perpetrator to avoid the fraud or recover monetary compensation), a criminal wrong (i.e., a fraud perpetrator may be prosecuted and imprisoned by governmental authorities) or it may cause no loss of money, property or legal right but still be an element of another civil or criminal wrong.[1] The purpose of fraud may be monetary gain or other benefits, such as obtaining a driver's license or qualifying for a mortgage by way of false statements.[2]


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Chou Anou]

10 hours ago, Restinpeace said:

I remember this thread from way back. People don't get 100 year bans for nothing. Also, it's likely immigration targeted that specific apartment/condo block for many reasons..ie. a hub of some kind of criminal activity. If there are a LOT of foreigners overstaying in the same area then something is seriously wrong.

 

So maybe they got him for visa issues but decided to perma-ban him simply because he was associated or around known criminals up to a lot more nefarious activity. He only has 95 more years to go before the ban is up.

 

Exactly.  There's clearly a LOT more to this story than we have been told by the OP, for reasons we can all probably surmise.