Ireland floats special EU-UK customs union as way to break Brexit logjam

Grouse · August 6, 2017

1 hour ago, Orac said:

According to Sunday Telegraph today the UK position is 'no more than' 40bn euros which will effectivly make it our opening bid so 20b pounds will be way too low.

1% of one year's GDP compared with 2% of one year's GDP!

The bastards! Run for the hills!

Edited August 6, 2017 by Grouse

citybiker · August 6, 2017

As long as the treasury & Brexit ministers can account in detail the UK's overall liabilities, pensions and previous agreements then the quoted 36 billion (€40billion) is more than fair and justified.

It'll be interesting to see what Barnier & his team reply to this release, and more importantly if it's refused 'the EU' now must supply their version of the accounts.

I'm no betting person but I'm convinced the EU reply will be non/Nein.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

smedly · August 6, 2017

1 hour ago, Orac said:

According to Sunday Telegraph today the UK position is 'no more than' 40bn euros which will effectivly make it our opening bid so 20b pounds will be way too low.

The whole article is an interesting perspective and is not far from my own thinking concerning who is holding up the talks and then trying to blame it on the other side using the media, Mr Barnier is a real piece of work.

Lets not for get that there could possibly be a transition period of a further 2 years during which the UK is likely to continue contributions to the EU - at roughly 10b a year it starts to make sense

I am starting to think that come October the talks will in fact progress to sorting out trade and customs arrangements

Some say the UK is in a weak position - I do not agree with that at all, for me the EU needs to get its head out of its ass and realise that the UK "will" exit the EU and start working on a meaningful relationship that works for all going forward, and in the UK I can equally say that it is time to stop the squabbling between the parties and get solidly behind the government and support this process 100%

ilostmypassword · August 6, 2017

22 minutes ago, smedly said:

The whole article is an interesting perspective and is not far from my own thinking concerning who is holding up the talks and then trying to blame it on the other side using the media, Mr Barnier is a real piece of work.

Lets not for get that there could possibly be a transition period of a further 2 years during which the UK is likely to continue contributions to the EU - at roughly 10b a year it starts to make sense

I am starting to think that come October the talks will in fact progress to sorting out trade and customs arrangements

Some say the UK is in a weak position - I do not agree with that at all, for me the EU needs to get its head out of its ass and realise that the UK "will" exit the EU and start working on a meaningful relationship that works for all going forward, and in the UK I can equally say that it is time to stop the squabbling between the parties and get solidly behind the government and support this process 100%

Rah! Rah!

7by7 · August 6, 2017

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

19 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Because they already do?

Think about the refugee camps around Calais.

Although you do have a point; why should France accommodate them once the UK is no longer an EU partner. The French government could simply ship them all across the channel and say it's our problem now!

A potential problem Brexiteers don't like to talk about.

The UK could quite legally ship them back to Calais.

It is a French problem and NOT a UK problem.

It is currently a French problem because UK immigration is based on the French side of the Channel.

If France withdraws from the bilateral agreement, which it is entitled to do, then UK immigration will be based on the UK side, and having left France the refugees/migrants will be on UK soil and the UK's problem.

At best, your solution means that they would be constantly shuttled back and forth between the UK and France at great cost to the tax payers of both countries!

7by7 · August 6, 2017

13 hours ago, smedly said:

what stupid nonsense is that, tell you what, if you can - get yourself an Irish Passport and then try to claim and Irish Government Pension, having a passport means absolutely nothing - it might save you 30mins in an airport ............. go for it lol

If you think my précis of Irish nationality law is 'stupid nonsense' I suggest you take your remarks to the Irish government!

But first, check out what the Irish Citizens Information Board has to say on the matter.

Of course having Irish nationality does not mean you are automatically entitled to an Irish state pension, just as having British nationality does not automatically entitle you to a UK state pension. Both schemes are contribution based, and how much, if anything, someone is entitled to is dependent upon the contributions they made during their working life, not their nationality.

There are several reasons why a British citizen may wish to take up Irish nationality as well; assuming they're entitled to.

For some it's a political statement; to show their belief in and support for a united Ireland, although I wonder how many of this group have a British passport as well.

Many did so in order to by pass the UK immigration rules by using the EEA regulations to live in the UK with their non EEA national partners; until that loophole was closed by the European Court.

Many more are doing so now in order to retain their rights as EU nationals: Brexit blamed as number of Britons applying for Irish passports rises by two thirds

Quote

Charlie Flanagan, Ireland’s foreign minister and member of the ruling Fine Gael party, said the surge in applications was at least partly down to Brexit, as people seek to remain EU citizens at a "changing time in relations".

“It’s reasonable to suggest that Brexit is a factor in what are record numbers of applications,” he said.

“I think it’s also reasonable to assume that there are large numbers of people of Irish descent who now feel that they would like to remain as EU citizens in what is a changing time in relations between Ireland and the UK.”

You said to another poster

14 hours ago, smedly said:

go do a little research before you make ............................................

Perhaps you should follow your own advice!

Grouse · August 6, 2017

4 hours ago, smedly said:

The whole article is an interesting perspective and is not far from my own thinking concerning who is holding up the talks and then trying to blame it on the other side using the media, Mr Barnier is a real piece of work.

Lets not for get that there could possibly be a transition period of a further 2 years during which the UK is likely to continue contributions to the EU - at roughly 10b a year it starts to make sense

I am starting to think that come October the talks will in fact progress to sorting out trade and customs arrangements

Some say the UK is in a weak position - I do not agree with that at all, for me the EU needs to get its head out of its ass and realise that the UK "will" exit the EU and start working on a meaningful relationship that works for all going forward, and in the UK I can equally say that it is time to stop the squabbling between the parties and get solidly behind the government and support this process 100%

Ah yes! The meaningful relationship!

My English wife divorced me 25 years ago. We've had a meaningful relationship ever since; just ask my Thai wife ?

George FmplesdaCosteedback · August 6, 2017

The border between Northern Ireland and the Republic does need some thought, so any suggestions should be welcomed.

Anyone trying to enter mainland Britain from NI will be subject to the normal checks at the ports of entry, so that should not a be problem, just add EU Schengen citizens to the "foreign" queue.

I've not done the trip, but there must be immigration and customs for foreign travelers from/to NI at the ferry ports or airports etc.

I find it hard to believe there are no controls on none EU/UK citizens making that journey now?

If a suitable trade agreement is concluded then the customs problem will be avoided too.

Simples!

smedly · August 7, 2017

3 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

The border between Northern Ireland and the Republic does need some thought, so any suggestions should be welcomed.

Anyone trying to enter mainland Britain from NI will be subject to the normal checks at the ports of entry, so that should not a be problem, just add EU Schengen citizens to the "foreign" queue.

I've not done the trip, but there must be immigration and customs for foreign travelers from/to NI at the ferry ports or airports etc.

I find it hard to believe there are no controls on none EU/UK citizens making that journey now?

If a suitable trade agreement is concluded then the customs problem will be avoided too.

Simples!

Oh dear, there is a very simple correction to be made to your post above, lets see if you can get your head round it.

The UK consists of N.Ireland Scotland Wales England

To travel between any of the above you need absolutely nothing at all because there is no border, if you are travelling from England to Scotland through an airport you will need to show photo id in order to identify that you are in fact the person with the name on the ticket, same goes for air travel from England to Wales and N.Ireland in all directions before being allowed on an aircraft.......................there are no borders - there is no foreign queue

Now feel corrected

and yes the future management of the border between the UK and Republic of Ireland does need some extra thought because they are two different countries and have had special arrangements regarding travel going back a long time

Edited August 7, 2017 by smedly

billd766 · August 7, 2017

19 hours ago, 7by7 said:

It is currently a French problem because UK immigration is based on the French side of the Channel.

If France withdraws from the bilateral agreement, which it is entitled to do, then UK immigration will be based on the UK side, and having left France the refugees/migrants will be on UK soil and the UK's problem.

At best, your solution means that they would be constantly shuttled back and forth between the UK and France at great cost to the tax payers of both countries!

As far as I understand if the refugees? leave France and are caught in the UK they will be deported back to France where they came from.

It is a 100% French problem for letting them into France in the first place.

dick dasterdly · August 7, 2017

22 hours ago, citybiker said:

As long as the treasury & Brexit ministers can account in detail the UK's overall liabilities, pensions and previous agreements then the quoted 36 billion (€40billion) is more than fair and justified.

It'll be interesting to see what Barnier & his team reply to this release, and more importantly if it's refused 'the EU' now must supply their version of the accounts.

I'm no betting person but I'm convinced the EU reply will be non/Nein.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

"As long as the treasury & Brexit ministers can account in detail the UK's overall liabilities, pensions and previous agreements then the quoted 36 billion (€40billion) is more than fair and justified."

But I still want to see UK ministers to provide justification to support the 36/40 bn 'offer' - i.e. provide a detailed breakdown as to how they came up with this number.

citybiker · August 7, 2017

"As long as the treasury & Brexit ministers can account in detail the UK's overall liabilities, pensions and previous agreements then the quoted 36 billion (€40billion) is more than fair and justified."

But I still want to see UK ministers to provide justification to support the 36/40 bn 'offer' - i.e. provide a detailed breakdown as to how they came up with this number.

I fully concur, tax payers money is all accountable, legally we owe nothing (quote from Conservative JRM).

As for the NI border situation, there's been much talk behind the scenes about implementing a TIR electronic type system.

Whichever system is proposed, I'm certain due to the amount of traffic going between north & south it'll almost certainly be some form of electronic monitoring recording system.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

George FmplesdaCosteedback · August 7, 2017

15 hours ago, smedly said:

Oh dear, there is a very simple correction to be made to your post above, lets see if you can get your head round it.

The UK consists of N.Ireland Scotland Wales England

To travel between any of the above you need absolutely nothing at all because there is no border, if you are travelling from England to Scotland through an airport you will need to show photo id in order to identify that you are in fact the person with the name on the ticket, same goes for air travel from England to Wales and N.Ireland in all directions before being allowed on an aircraft.......................there are no borders - there is no foreign queue

Now feel corrected

and yes the future management of the border between the UK and Republic of Ireland does need some extra thought because they are two different countries and have had special arrangements regarding travel going back a long time

But that is part of what I said. There is a physical border between the Island of Ireland and mainland Britain, it is the Irish sea, or hadn't you noticed that?

I did not mention Wales or Scotland, as anyone that enters mainland Britain needs a passport as it is not part of the Schengen area.

The Republic is NOT in the Schengen area, yet you are saying they have no immigration controls or customs for people coming from America, the Middle East, Africa or anywhere else for that matter?

If that is true I will stand corrected happily, but it is a very sad state of affairs if that is in fact the case.

George FmplesdaCosteedback · August 7, 2017

On 06/08/2017 at 2:51 PM, smedly said:

The whole article is an interesting perspective and is not far from my own thinking concerning who is holding up the talks and then trying to blame it on the other side using the media, Mr Barnier is a real piece of work.

Lets not for get that there could possibly be a transition period of a further 2 years during which the UK is likely to continue contributions to the EU - at roughly 10b a year it starts to make sense

I am starting to think that come October the talks will in fact progress to sorting out trade and customs arrangements

Some say the UK is in a weak position - I do not agree with that at all, for me the EU needs to get its head out of its ass and realise that the UK "will" exit the EU and start working on a meaningful relationship that works for all going forward, and in the UK I can equally say that it is time to stop the squabbling between the parties and get solidly behind the government and support this process 100%

I agree with you, but whose pensions are we paying for, just our percentage of MEPs?

Paying up to the agreed budget's end in 2020 is likely unavoidable.

As for the trade talks and the "transitional period" we could rejoin Efta for two years, which might be better than WTO rules (I need to look into that a bit more) if the EU do their usual brinkmanship and the UK call the bluff. After all, we buy much more from them than the other way round.

Khun Han · August 7, 2017

7 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

I agree with you, but whose pensions are we paying for, just our percentage of MEPs?

Paying up to the agreed budget's end in 2020 is likely unavoidable.

As for the trade talks and the "transitional period" we could rejoin Efta for two years, which might be better than WTO rules (I need to look into that a bit more) if the EU do their usual brinkmanship and the UK call the bluff. After all, we buy much more from them than the other way round.

After all, we buy much more from them than the other way round.

And a fair amount of it is stuff we could get cheaper elsewhere.

George FmplesdaCosteedback · August 7, 2017

Just now, Khun Han said:

After all, we buy much more from them than the other way round.

And a fair amount of it is stuff we could get cheaper elsewhere.

Indeed we could. We pay for most of the French and other EU food twice!

Once in the CAP we and the Germans (French contribution is written off against their EU payment) pay for, and again in the shops.

smedly · August 7, 2017

2 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

But that is part of what I said. There is a physical border between the Island of Ireland and mainland Britain, it is the Irish sea, or hadn't you noticed that?

I did not mention Wales or Scotland, as anyone that enters mainland Britain needs a passport as it is not part of the Schengen area.

The Republic is NOT in the Schengen area, yet you are saying they have no immigration controls or customs for people coming from America, the Middle East, Africa or anywhere else for that matter?

If that is true I will stand corrected happily, but it is a very sad state of affairs if that is in fact the case.

there is no border in the UK between all parts of the UK, there might be water and air but there is no border in the sense that you wanted to describe.........................you are now verging on trolling and baiting if you don't get it

The United Kingdom is "borderless" it is one kingdom....................get it ?

probably not

Khun Han · August 7, 2017

6 minutes ago, smedly said:

there is no border in the UK between all parts of the UK, there might be water and air but there is no border in the sense that you wanted to describe.........................you are now verging on trolling and baiting if you don't get it

The United Kingdom is "borderless" it is one kingdom....................get it ?

probably not

I think the point George was making is that anyone travelling to mainland UK has to go through a sea or air port on arrival, so the infrastructure for weeding out illegals travelling from NI is already there.There just needs to be a workable system to utilise it.

smedly · August 7, 2017

32 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

I think the point George was making is that anyone travelling to mainland UK has to go through a sea or air port on arrival, so the infrastructure for weeding out illegals travelling from NI is already there.There just needs to be a workable system to utilise it.

There are no border checks within the UK period, George and seemingly you don't get it, and I mean that with the utmost respect

an example would be a person that does not have a passport or even a driving licence (although that could create problems at any UK airport from a security point being unable to identify yourself) is able to travel anywhere in the UK provided their journey started in the UK, there are no borders within the UK...............none - why would there be

you are a smart guy - you honestly need to drop this

I have lived in the UK all my life...............there are no borders

and just to add

do you think the people of Northern Ireland want Illegals (as you describe them) coming to N.Ireland through the republic of Ireland ? ..................I think not

Edited August 7, 2017 by smedly

smedly · August 7, 2017

don't be fooled by the EU contingent trying to use Ireland as a bargaining chip, they brought it up and it is shameful, the fact is that there is a border there and it is because they are two different countries.............that is a fact, I have posted before several times about special arrangements between the Republic of Ireland and the UK.......they have existed for decades, it is not even about Northern Ireland and the republic of Ireland, people from the ROI have been free to travel to England Scotland Wales - work there claim benefits use the NHS .............for decades, who is trying to make this an issue .....well you decide

rickudon · August 8, 2017

Quote

Report post

Posted 21 hours ago

21 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

I agree with you, but whose pensions are we paying for, just our percentage of MEPs?

Paying up to the agreed budget's end in 2020 is likely unavoidable.

As for the trade talks and the "transitional period" we could rejoin Efta for two years, which might be better than WTO rules (I need to look into that a bit more) if the EU do their usual brinkmanship and the UK call the bluff. After all, we buy much more from them than the other way round.

After all, we buy much more from them than the other way round.

And a fair amount of it is stuff we could get cheaper elsewhere.

Yes, we buy more from them than they buy from us. But, if we consider a worst case, and trade both ways drops, say 50%, that would devastate the British economy as we would loose 25% of our total exports (not exact figures, just ballpark). However, the UK represents only 10% of EU exports - half that and you get 5%. So, our exports could drop by 25%, and the EU's by 5% - a recession for the EU, but chaos in the UK.

The optimistic belief that the EU will roll over and give us everything we want is unrealistic. All countries have to agree to the deal and some just will want their pound of flesh. And the EU has to show that leaving will be bad for you. All Brexit rhetoric is 'Better tomorrow' without any clear indication of how we get there. ....

The 2020's will be like the 1920's, And probably will be 2060's before we are doing well again. Meanwhile, we will have debts like Argentina.

I am still waiting for someone to explain where all our new markets will suddenly appear - why trade with us instead of Germany or China? Only reason would be because we are cheaper - like Eastern European costs. If that sounds like a desirable future go for Brexit!

Ireland is obviously concerned as we are their main trading partner. But their economy boomed under the EU, their not going to leave.

Khun Han · August 8, 2017

2 hours ago, rickudon said:

Yes, we buy more from them than they buy from us. But, if we consider a worst case, and trade both ways drops, say 50%, that would devastate the British economy as we would loose 25% of our total exports (not exact figures, just ballpark). However, the UK represents only 10% of EU exports - half that and you get 5%. So, our exports could drop by 25%, and the EU's by 5% - a recession for the EU, but chaos in the UK.

The optimistic belief that the EU will roll over and give us everything we want is unrealistic. All countries have to agree to the deal and some just will want their pound of flesh. And the EU has to show that leaving will be bad for you. All Brexit rhetoric is 'Better tomorrow' without any clear indication of how we get there. ....

The 2020's will be like the 1920's, And probably will be 2060's before we are doing well again. Meanwhile, we will have debts like Argentina.

I am still waiting for someone to explain where all our new markets will suddenly appear - why trade with us instead of Germany or China? Only reason would be because we are cheaper - like Eastern European costs. If that sounds like a desirable future go for Brexit!

Ireland is obviously concerned as we are their main trading partner. But their economy boomed under the EU, their not going to leave.

The groundwork for many new markets is already in place, with most major trading nations outside the EU eager to quickly set up trade deals with us as soon as it becomes legal to do so. Don't be so absurdly negative.

rickudon · August 9, 2017

15 hours ago, Khun Han said:

The groundwork for many new markets is already in place, with most major trading nations outside the EU eager to quickly set up trade deals with us as soon as it becomes legal to do so. Don't be so absurdly negative.

Hmm negative .... maybe just more realistic. Good piece on BBC about trade deals, services and agricultural products are the most difficult to negotiate.

Cars for cheese - why a free trade deal may not be free

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40792654

I still do not see why countries will queue up to do a trade deal with us if they haven't done this before now. If our products were not attractive in 2015, why would they be now? I would expect it would take some years for meaningful deals to be negotiated (the exact context will depend on any deal with the EU). We have seen the financial crisis wreck the economy for 10 years, how long before the problems of Brexit are overcome and the economy is healthy? IF, i know it is still an IF, we get no deal or not much better, the first few years are going to be very difficult and possibly financially disastrous. Any continuation of the growing debt to GDP ratio would leave us with unsustainable debt - default, anyone?

I just think the benefits are small and the risks are great. I maybe risk averse, but as an expat pensioner dependent on UK pensions, I see no likely benefit in my lifetime. Also, would immigration come down significantly? Would food and day to day living costs fall? Will wages rise? Will we have to compromise on health and safety? Will there still be a UK? None are certain.

All i know is that when i came to Thailand, before the financial crisis started to bite, i got 50% more baht to the pound and interest rates on my savings were around 6%. So far Brexit has just made it worse.

billd766 · August 9, 2017

Perhaps they did not do a trade deal with the UK because they couldn't deal directly with the UK. They could only do a deal with the EU and we are still a part of the EU for a while longer.

Once the UK quits the EU we can make our own deals in a far shorter time.

billd766 · August 9, 2017

3 hours ago, rickudon said:

Hmm negative .... maybe just more realistic. Good piece on BBC about trade deals, services and agricultural products are the most difficult to negotiate.

Cars for cheese - why a free trade deal may not be free

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40792654

I still do not see why countries will queue up to do a trade deal with us if they haven't done this before now. If our products were not attractive in 2015, why would they be now? I would expect it would take some years for meaningful deals to be negotiated (the exact context will depend on any deal with the EU). We have seen the financial crisis wreck the economy for 10 years, how long before the problems of Brexit are overcome and the economy is healthy? IF, i know it is still an IF, we get no deal or not much better, the first few years are going to be very difficult and possibly financially disastrous. Any continuation of the growing debt to GDP ratio would leave us with unsustainable debt - default, anyone?

I just think the benefits are small and the risks are great. I maybe risk averse, but as an expat pensioner dependent on UK pensions, I see no likely benefit in my lifetime. Also, would immigration come down significantly? Would food and day to day living costs fall? Will wages rise? Will we have to compromise on health and safety? Will there still be a UK? None are certain.

All i know is that when i came to Thailand, before the financial crisis started to bite, i got 50% more baht to the pound and interest rates on my savings were around 6%. So far Brexit has just made it worse.

When I first came to Thailand in 1993 the exchange rate was lower than it is now. After the 1997 crash it got much better, up to 80 and more baht and life was really great.

Since the Brexit vote was announced the Forex rate has dropped from around 51 baht in July 2016 to about 43 this month.

To me that is about 18% so when you got 50% more would have been quite a few years ago.

Interest rates for farangs in Thailand have never been 6% IIRC over the last 24 years.

smedly · August 9, 2017

Germany has been doing trade deals for years with who every they like ......... sorry I meant to say EU

lets look at all the 27 nations on a scale to 30 of how well they have been doing out of the EU over the last 40 years

at least 25 of them contribute nothing- yes they trade in the EU but need something from the contributors to compensate for net losses ..................that means they rely on handouts from the net contributors who happen to be ....Germany and the UK, yes not even France is a net contributor to the EU ..................... so 24 of them ( or 25) are a total train wreck - yes they trade but rely on Germany and the UK, but what is worse, on a scale of 0-30 ....Germany is a 30 - the UK is maybe a 10 and the rest are not even on the scale

Anyone actually seriously looked at all of this nonsense and wondered why Germany's economy has prospered so much ???????? how on earth is it that nobody has questioned this ....seriously "WHY", if the EU was functioning as intended then all the nations involved should be at least solvent, but that is not the case, there is only one country in the EU that is solvent and by quite a margin ...... Germany

The UK needs to get well out of this twisted nest of crooks and cheats, human nature of extreme greed and dishonesty is coming to the surface, it is so twisted it really angers me, thank god the UK is out.

Oh yes ...................lets get closer together in the Union with a 2x speed Europe......Germany and the rest, how Macron who I consider to be a smart guy doesn't see this is beyond me, maybe he is being looked after

people need to waken up to this seriously (deleted) up situation, I believe the British have, who cares how long it takes - one thing is for certain, the British people are done with being shafted by you know who, again and again...................and now again

waken up people

another rant over

George FmplesdaCosteedback · August 10, 2017

23 hours ago, smedly said:

Germany has been doing trade deals for years with who every they like ......... sorry I meant to say EU

lets look at all the 27 nations on a scale to 30 of how well they have been doing out of the EU over the last 40 years

at least 25 of them contribute nothing- yes they trade in the EU but need something from the contributors to compensate for net losses ..................that means they rely on handouts from the net contributors who happen to be ....Germany and the UK, yes not even France is a net contributor to the EU ..................... so 24 of them ( or 25) are a total train wreck - yes they trade but rely on Germany and the UK, but what is worse, on a scale of 0-30 ....Germany is a 30 - the UK is maybe a 10 and the rest are not even on the scale

Anyone actually seriously looked at all of this nonsense and wondered why Germany's economy has prospered so much ???????? how on earth is it that nobody has questioned this ....seriously "WHY", if the EU was functioning as intended then all the nations involved should be at least solvent, but that is not the case, there is only one country in the EU that is solvent and by quite a margin ...... Germany

The UK needs to get well out of this twisted nest of crooks and cheats, human nature of extreme greed and dishonesty is coming to the surface, it is so twisted it really angers me, thank god the UK is out.

Oh yes ...................lets get closer together in the Union with a 2x speed Europe......Germany and the rest, how Macron who I consider to be a smart guy doesn't see this is beyond me, maybe he is being looked after

people need to waken up to this seriously (deleted) up situation, I believe the British have, who cares how long it takes - one thing is for certain, the British people are done with being shafted by you know who, again and again...................and now again

waken up people

another rant over

I could not have put it better myself.

George FmplesdaCosteedback · August 10, 2017

20 hours ago, The Old Bull said:

Brexit may keep out the polacks but the golliwogs and camel humpers will keep comming.

I understand your concern, but once out of the blood sucking EU we can implement an immigration policy to suit the UK.

A visa and work permit system should not be that difficult to put in place.

No doubt UK workers will need one to work in the EU after we leave, but we will have a choice of who comes, not all the eastern European trash we get now.

Plus control the "refugees" we take.

George FmplesdaCosteedback · August 10, 2017

On 08/08/2017 at 2:57 AM, smedly said:

there is no border in the UK between all parts of the UK, there might be water and air but there is no border in the sense that you wanted to describe.........................you are now verging on trolling and baiting if you don't get it

The United Kingdom is "borderless" it is one kingdom....................get it ?

probably not

I totally get it thanks.

You just miss the point.

I agree with all your other comments, but you just don't seem to be able to understand what I am talking about.

I'll give you a clue: It is about the Republic and the island of Ireland not the mainland.

If Dublin airport has no immigration for direct flights from anywhere outside the UK I am horrified!

But this seems to be your main contention.

Is it true then the Republic do not check who comes and goes at all other ports of entry the same as the north/south border?

If it really is as you suggest, anyone from anywhere in the world can enter the UK via the Republic as things stand.

Is that right? It is what you say!

Can you fly from the US, Turkey or the middle east, Asia etc to Dublin and enter the Republic without passport checks?

(Never mind customs.)

I think we are on the same side here but seem to have some wires crossed, and it is not just me I am sure.

The N/S border is a difficult problem to solve without a trade agreement, but far worse if the Republic has no immigration/border control at any port of entry for anyone from anywhere, not just the cross N/S traffic.

Even arriving in Belfast on a connecting flight from outside the UK must involve immigration checks somewhere... PLEASE!

As I said we seem to be on the same side, but what you say has me flabbergasted and worried at the Republic's immigration system, or no system if it is as you tell me!?

Edited August 10, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

wakeupplease · August 10, 2017

On 8/5/2017 at 8:29 AM, hansnl said:

Might this be the first sign of something the Europhiles in Brussels will not like?

As for the supposedly amateuristic way Britain is handling the Brexit, well, seeming to be amateuristic certainly is the trademark of Britain.

Well said young man I take it your history results at school where D- or E

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Cars for cheese - why a free trade deal may not be free

Cars for cheese - why a free trade deal may not be free

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