Must Read Trump warns 'fire and fury' if North Korea threatens U.S., Pyongyang weighs Guam strike

[Morch]

3 hours ago, FitnessHealthTravel said:

Seriously this just goes on and on. At some point the DNK will pass the point where it will go for it and then all hell will break loose. They have nothing to lose. Guam is a smokescreen, Japan and South Korea will fall in hours of this starting for sure. They need to take this very, very seriously. Kim Jon has been schooled for this, he knows nothing else and will not settle, ever. The US needs to take these guys very seriously and stop mocking them. They will destabilize this region for decades if this starts from their side first, that's for sure.

 

How do you mean NK "have nothing to lose"? Kim might lose his life/position, the country might lose a whole lot of lives and incur heavy damage. 

 

How will "Japan and South Korea....fall in hours"? The NK will invade Japan? Will overtake SK in hours?

 

 

[tonray]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

How do you mean NK "have nothing to lose"? Kim might lose his life/position, the country might lose a whole lot of lives and incur heavy damage. 

 

How will "Japan and South Korea....fall in hours"? The NK will invade Japan? Will overtake SK in hours?

 

 

The Vietnam Domino Theory reborn. Fact: South Korea has a more capable and technically advanced military than NK. Wirhout Chinese intervention the same scenario would ensue as in the first war with the north retreating. Japan would not likely be involved at all 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

The fact that the Iraqi WMDs were found in record time amply demonstrates the high calibre of intelligence they have around the world.

 

There's got to be an expiry date on this old nonsense argument. You cannot counter any claim by yapping "But Iraq, but WMD.". Every intelligence organization makes mistakes, many leaderships disregard intelligence in favor of agenda.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Morch

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, tonray said:

The Vietnam Domino Theory reborn. Fact: South Korea has a more capable and technically advanced military than NK. Wirhout Chinese intervention the same scenario would ensue as in the first war with the north retreating. Japan would not likely be involved at all 

 

Japan being involved or not is one thing, capitulating within hours is fantasy. As for SK/NK balance, there's also a question of how much casualties and damage a side can accept/take. Seoul's location complicates things.

[TKDfella]

16 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

There will be no order to strike Guam by anyone in North Korea as they know such an order would be their death order.  A missile strike on US territory would give the US  a reason under International law to strike back and ensure the end of North Korea. Let;s hope this ridiculous posturing stops and at the same time Trump shuts  up so the diplomats can sit down and sort this all out.  I will start worrying when I see large troop movements from the US into Asia as well as the movement of aircraft from the US mainland to Asia.

Another article I've just been reading on the issue would seem to favour you first line. Apparently, reading 'between the lines' as it were, some analysts think that there is probably a 'rough plan on a shelf somewhere [in NK]' but no real plan. However, yet another article would seem suggest differently and apparently the island of Guam is in a state of 'readiness' and bombers are also ready and there seems to be a genuine fear...do they know something we don't? I do agree about the rhetoric (whether President Trump or Premier Kim) and while I feel it is mostly talk I do know that Koreans (N & S) are honorific in both nature and philosophy and 'loosing face' is unacceptable.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, baboon said:

The fact that the Iraqi WMDs were found in record time amply demonstrates the high calibre of intelligence they have around the world.

Too true Narelle!

 

Six months ago, the 'experts' were saying that DPRK didn't have the technology to put a nuclear warhead on their ICBM's and it was 'years away'. Then last month it was ball parked at early 2018.

 

Now, quite suddenly, they have acquired suitcase-sized ones.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, jcsmith said:

And where are you getting MOAB from? He threatened, "fire and fury like the world has never seen." We've seen atomic bombs. We've seen MOAB. He's threatening nuclear war.

No, he's speaking sh!te.

[NanLaew]

32 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

There's got to be an expiry date on this old nonsense argument. You cannot counter any claim by yapping "But Iraq, but WMD.". Every intelligence organization makes mistakes, many leaderships disregard intelligence in favor of agenda.

But by the same token, many governments just can't help themselves.

[Foozool]

8 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

Dracarys

"At least Trump has the balls to say and I believe act if necessary.

Good job ......  shut the NK leader up,   and blow them out of the water ... 

it will also create alot of new jobs building new artillery."

 

???  good joke.

 

I wished it was that easy❗️

There will be thousands of casualties before North Korea goes down. Pressing war button needs big balls :

 

"Republican U.S. Senator John McCain said Trump should tread cautiously when issuing threats to North Korea unless he is prepared to act."

 

absolutely true.

 

If you have never served an army during wars, some others have seen a lot. It won't look like a party at Pattaya. 

And China will be happy, that's what China wants since they have raised North Korea baby for years. 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Foozool

[Morch]

Just now, NanLaew said:

But by the same token, many governments just can't help themselves.

 

So do some posters. And so does NK.

Other than the hyped up rhetoric, Trump isn't doing anything particularly different than Obama.

The danger lies with leaders starting believing their own words.

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Too true Narelle!

 

Six months ago, the 'experts' were saying that DPRK didn't have the technology to put a nuclear warhead on their ICBM's and it was 'years away'. Then last month it was ball parked at early 2018.

 

Now, quite suddenly, they have acquired suitcase-sized ones.

 

Considering the current administration's relations with its own intelligence community, one could wonder about such discrepancies.

 

[Tchooptip]

3 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Well said.

 

Many people have difficulty differentiating rhetoric from reality. Rhetoric is designed to influence people and Trump has successfully got a lot of Americans all riled up and baying for blood. That was his aim. He doesn't want the Russia story to be the headline.

 

Kim Jong-Un needs to continue with his rhetoric to build up the external threat, justify his position, suppress any internal dissent and maintain the "mad and dangerous yet weak" policy that has been a successful foreign policy in maintaining the regime and unnerving South Korea.

 

The reality is Trump wants a distraction and Kim Jong-Un wants to stay in power.

 

When listeners understand their real aims, they can re-interpret their comments and not naively take them at face value.

 

Lets hope the two buffoons présidents will not naively take each other comments at face value 

[jcsmith]

30 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

No, he's speaking sh!te.

Trash talking isn't typically a positive when it comes to diplomacy.

[Enoon]

BBC News:

 

"On Wednesday, the official KCNA news agency said North Korea was "carefully examining the operational plan for making an enveloping fire at the areas around Guam" using its domestically made medium-to-long-range Hwasong-12 missiles."

 

Around, not at.

 

ie: The sea (as usual).

 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Enoon

[Thaidream]

Guam being on alert is something that the US military does consistently when there is a perceived threat.  However, the minute Kim launches the US will know it and there will be some time to get the planes up or to order a counter strike.  Kim would be playing a dangerous game if he sends a missile even to an area in the sea around Guam.  I have to believe the US has the ability to instantly measure speed and trajectory and ascertain the missile will fall into the water. However, I would expect a US response- possibly a missle into the sea near North Korea or even a missile strike in an unoccupied region of North Korea. This is where it all gets dicey- a miscalculation by either side; an errant missle; or some unintended provocation- you have war.

[Morch]

50 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Guam being on alert is something that the US military does consistently when there is a perceived threat.  However, the minute Kim launches the US will know it and there will be some time to get the planes up or to order a counter strike.  Kim would be playing a dangerous game if he sends a missile even to an area in the sea around Guam.  I have to believe the US has the ability to instantly measure speed and trajectory and ascertain the missile will fall into the water. However, I would expect a US response- possibly a missle into the sea near North Korea or even a missile strike in an unoccupied region of North Korea. This is where it all gets dicey- a miscalculation by either side; an errant missle; or some unintended provocation- you have war.

 

Estimating, rather accurately and rapidly  where a missile will hit is not an issue. The technology exists for quite some time now. Then again, it applies to conventional warheads. Otherwise, a whole lot of other issues involved in assessing damage and effective zone.

 

A for a timely US retaliation, the two main options are (a) air strikes using assets in SK (I think F-16's),  option (b) is the traditional Tomahawk barrage. I'd wager on the latter, as an aerial strike is more prone to mishaps, will require SK consent, and aircraft will likely be detected en route, possibly resulting in a rather dreaded preemptive artillery strike.

 

As with these sort of things, easy for things to get out of hand, so hopefully the above will not be put to the test.

[Thaidream]

The thing China fears is a massive influx of North Korea refugees and the fact that US Forces will be on china's doorstep for a long time. Right now North Korea provides a nice buffer. somehow, the US is going to have to convince North Korea it is not interested in regime change and is willing to take off all sanctions but N Korea has to denuclearize along with S Korea and US troops have to leave the peninsula for any of it to work. I believe china and possibly Russia will have to guarantee such an agreement or possibly the United Nations. This is going to be a tough negotiation now that Kim has the nuclear chip.

[dunroaming]

The situation with NK is tense and Kim is as nuts and as volatile as Trump.  So Trump comes out and threatens Kim.  It's baiting and that is Trumps intention.  Kim responds in an equally threatening way as we all know he will.  They are just like a couple of red neck drunks squaring up outside a bar.  The difference is that that they are playing with innocent peoples lives and that makes them a threat and danger to everyone in striking range.

 

They should both be put down like a pair of rabid dogs.

[zzaa09]

Traditional American deluded nutter.

 

Must be proud.

[ilostmypassword]

12 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

The left wing loonies may now be happy that they have a strong, decisive leader who will, if necessary, take on this vertically challenged worm in North Korea.   Nah.....too much hate against the Republicans.

 

If the previous administration had balls, the situation would not have deteriorated to what we now see.

The last time you talked about Trump having balls, it was in reference to Syria. So, is he asking for Russians to give them back?

[Grouse]

Does anyone note the symmetry of NK threatening to attacking Guam following sanctions and Japan attacking Hawaii following sanctions?

 

I believe Guam became an American colony during the 1898 was with Spain as did the Philippines and Cuba. Was Hawaii colonised at the same time?

 

(just one imperialist to another so to speak)

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed. 

 

A troll post has been removed as well as the replies. 

[Jingthing]

Traditional American deluded nutter.
 
Must be proud.

He's much worse than the usual.

[Jdiddy]

Hey look another NK thread with the same cookie cutter posts

 

Nothing will happen

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

The situation with NK is tense and Kim is as nuts and as volatile as Trump.  So Trump comes out and threatens Kim.  It's baiting and that is Trumps intention.  Kim responds in an equally threatening way as we all know he will.  They are just like a couple of red neck drunks squaring up outside a bar.  The difference is that that they are playing with innocent peoples lives and that makes them a threat and danger to everyone in striking range.

 

They should both be put down like a pair of rabid dogs.

 

Err, no. Trump didn't come up and threat Kim. Even without getting into the whole chronology, there were quite a few incidents and events prior to that, at least some initiated by NK and Kim. If you wish to call it baiting, it cuts both ways. Or do you somehow imagine Kim did not anticipate US and Trump's responses to missile tests, aggressive statements and such? Sounds like you're willing to allow Kim quite a bit of slack.

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

13 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

So the idiot in NK strikes Guam, kills thousands....what next?   You're suggesting the President should sit on his hands and say, "Bad luck, can't do anything because I don't have the confidence of the American people on this issue?"

 

Please be serious if you want to participate in an adult conversation.

When did this strike happen? Not that jingthing said anything about what to do in the case of a nuclear attack.  He was addressing the question of Trump making it more likely.  Really please stop setting up straw men if you want to be treated as an adult.

[dunroaming]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Err, no. Trump didn't come up and threat Kim. Even without getting into the whole chronology, there were quite a few incidents and events prior to that, at least some initiated by NK and Kim. If you wish to call it baiting, it cuts both ways. Or do you somehow imagine Kim did not anticipate US and Trump's responses to missile tests, aggressive statements and such? Sounds like you're willing to allow Kim quite a bit of slack.

 

 

 

Kim has consistently said (threatened) that if attacked he would retaliate.  Trump has now threatened that if Kim "threatens" the US again he will retaliate with "fire and fury". Kim then responds by "threatening" to bomb Guam. It is all hot air and bluster as two moronic man-children rant away.  I don't think I am cutting Kim any slack.  I do think out of the two of them Trump is marginally the most dangerous and I believe he is escalating the situation more than Kim at the moment.  However the world would be a much better place if they were both removed from their positions of power.  They are both everyone's enemy and nobody's friend.

Edited August 9, 2017 by dunroaming

[Becker]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

The situation with NK is tense and Kim is as nuts and as volatile as Trump.  So Trump comes out and threatens Kim.  It's baiting and that is Trumps intention. 

I think you give the man-child undue credit. I don't think he had any intention at all. As usual he just shoots his ignorant mouth off completely without any understanding of nor care for the consequences.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Becker

[rijb]

Tillerson: North Korean leader didn't understand diplomatic language

 

https://news.google.com/news/video/OghBvJYFCBo/dG1tScoDyUySafMqkXm8PShzQ51mM?hl=en&ned=us

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Kim has consistently said (threatened) that if attacked he would retaliate.  Trump has now threatened that if Kim "threatens" the US again he will retaliate with "fire and fury". Kim then responds by "threatening" to bomb Guam. It is all hot air and bluster as two moronic man-children rant away.  I don't think I am cutting Kim any slack.  I do think out of the two of them Trump is marginally the most dangerous and I believe he is escalating the situation more than Kim at the moment.  However the world would be a much better place if they were both removed from their positions of power.  They are both everyone's enemy and nobody's friend.

 

Kim consistently baits the US (and currently Trump). Be it threats, missile tests, nuclear experiments, aggressive statements, a host of illegal activities and limited military engagement with South Korea.

 

Trump being an blustering fool doesn't change that.

 

Guess than seeing either of them as contributing more or less to the current mess is a matter of opinion. Trump, at least, got a known semblance of checks and balances in place. Not so sure how (or rather, if) that works on Kim's side.