Wife's Thai I.D. wrong name......after 29 years???

[Tanoshi]

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

I think the issue is that she is applying for an extension of stay as a returning Thai citizen. To do this, she needs to prove that she is an existing (or former) Thai citizen. Her US passport does not demonstrate this.

After 12 years of extensions   

[BritTim]

18 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

10 hours ago, BritTim said:

I think the issue is that she is applying for an extension of stay as a returning Thai citizen. To do this, she needs to prove that she is an existing (or former) Thai citizen. Her US passport does not demonstrate this.

After 12 years of extensions

The officials finally decided to insist that everything was formally by the book. They were well aware that the lady was a Thai citizen at birth, but are now insisting on documentary proof. Probably, the official in charge changed, and is a stickler for the rules.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

The officials finally decided to insist that everything was formally by the book. They were well aware that the lady was a Thai citizen at birth, but are now insisting on documentary proof. Probably, the official in charge changed, and is a stickler for the rules.

I think it's far simpler than that.

 

Every year thousands of expats apply for extensions based on retirement.

As proof of residence they always submit their landlords or wife's ID, namely their Tabien Baan and ID cards.

The OP's wife entered as a US citizen and is being treated as a US citizen by Immigration (their choice).

However they've noticed an error in the name in her Thai ID that is being submitted as proof of residence.

 

It could be that simple!

Edited August 12, 2017 by Tanoshi

[OJAS]

On 8/11/2017 at 10:06 AM, TGIR said:

Wrong on all counts.......I don't know why you don't read the entire thread.  OJAS, did you miss the part where she is Thai?, or the part where she fills out the paperwork every year?

Well, kindly explain to me then what her being Thai and filling out the paperwork every year has to to do my comment (which was actually a reply to Evilbaz) since I am unable to see any connection.

[Maestro]

On 10/08/2017 at 10:49 AM, TGIR said:

Our marriage was in Bangkok, recorded in Bangkok Oct. 8, 1988.  We were also married again six months later in the U.S.A.

 

Interesting. Two marriage certificates, issued in two different countries six months apart, for marriage to the same woman. Which of the two marriage certificates does she submit with her application as evidence of being your dependent, ie your wife of foreign nationality?

[Maestro]

On 11/08/2017 at 4:57 AM, TGIR said:

She is my dependent and therefor has to submit the same paperwork to immigration I do.

 

If your wife has to submit the same paperwork as you do, she is not applying for an extension of stay as your dependent.

[Maestro]

If the foreign wife of a man on a retirement extension submits the necessary documents to satisfy immigration that the marriage is not only de jure but also de facto, immigration has no just cause to deny her application for an extension of stay as the dependent of her husband, regardless the difference in the surnames in her Thai ID and residence documents and her non-Thai passport. A call to the immigration hotline 1178 might give clarification.

[Maestro]

On 10/08/2017 at 2:28 PM, Evilbaz said:

If a retirement extension it has nothing to do with your wife - leave her at home then they have to deal only with you - The Applicant!

 

Reading between the lines of the OP's posts, I figure that this is all about his wife's application for an extension of stay as his dependent using her US nationality. The OP appears to be a bit confused about this. Although a dual Thai/US national as mentioned by the OP – but considering herself a "former" Thai national – she chose to enter and live in Thailand as a foreigner and now has to deal with the inconveniences this can sometimes cause.

[Maestro]

Another thought: Perhaps the immigration official dealing with the extension application of the OP's wife got riled by her referring to herself as a former Thai citizen. Some Thai government officials do not like this. As she still has a Thai ID card she has apparently not gone through the procedure of renouncing her Thai nationality under section 13 of the Nationality Act B.E. 2508 as amended by the Nationality Act B.E. 2551.

[OJAS]

The more I read this thread the more I have come to the conclusion that the OP is a master of obfuscation and confusion who derives considerable pleasure from criticising and belittling those who are unable to see through the murky waters which he has created.

[TGIR]

O.K. all you legal beagles.  Let's make this the last entry on this thread;  an amazing five pages of discussion and every single one of you missed the point of the post.

 

That being:  After 12 years of quarterly and annual visits, to the same immigration office, some new guy "discovers" my wife apparently should have changed her I.D. card to her married name ten years ago because of a change in the law.  Having found this egregious error, the immigration office is now requiring her to to to the Tessaban to add her American surname to her Thai I.D. card.  Not a problem, easy peasy.   But wait!  There's a catch which is the part that got my goat.

 

In addition to getting the new card that has both her Thai Surname and American Surname on it, she has to make a letter to the American Embassy explaining that she wants to use this version of her name in Thailand,  have it notarized by them in Bangkok. Then she has to take said letter to the Thai government in Bangkok and have them stamp it.  At her next annual retirement extension she shows the letter and immigration will take a copy for their records.  

 

No-one in Thailand or America will ever care that she uses an additional "middle" name on her Thai I.D. card.........except for our friend in Tha Yang, who will dutifully approve the letter by glancing at it and never paying an ounce of attention to it. 

 

29 minutes ago, OJAS said:

The more I read this thread the more I have come to the conclusion that the OP is a master of obfuscation and confusion who derives considerable pleasure from criticising and belittling those who are unable to see through the murky waters which he has created.

 

OJAS, thanks for the snarky comment.  Nice to see you are still not paying attention.

 

 

 

 

 

[Briggsy]

TGIR

 

I am still confused as to why your wife is doing annual extensions if she is a Thai citizen.

 

Why even bother?

[ubonjoe]

30 minutes ago, TGIR said:

In addition to getting the new card that has both her Thai Surname and American Surname on it, she has to make a letter to the American Embassy explaining that she wants to use this version of her name in Thailand,  have it notarized by them in Bangkok. Then she has to take said letter to the Thai government in Bangkok and have them stamp it.  At her next annual retirement extension she shows the letter and immigration will take a copy for their records.  

 

She only needs to change the ID card to your family name so it matches what is on her US passport.

Who told you she needs to notify the embassy. That is not correct.

[BritTim]

14 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

TGIR

 

I am still confused as to why your wife is doing annual extensions if she is a Thai citizen.

 

Why even bother?

Having entered on a US passport, and given an appropriate permission to stay, what should she do when her permission to stay expires? Yes, it would have been better to enter Thailand using a Thai passport, but this was not done. If never intending to leave Thailand again, she could, perhaps, just go on technical overstay of her permission to stay, but I am sure there would be serious complications if she then ever wanted to use her US passport to leave Thailand.

[TGIR]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

She only needs to change the ID card to your family name so it matches what is on her US passport.

Who told you she needs to notify the embassy. That is not correct.

I agree with you 100%.  Unfortunately the supervisor of the Tha Yang Immigration office thinks otherwise.   When asked by her subordinate she pulled a well used sheaf of yellow paper and waved it around for him to see.  He got the point.

 

I don't know why people in the Thai government (I apologize heartily for this apparent racist statement) don't know, or haven't been taught that a notarized document is only good for the purpose of identifying who signed it, not for the validation of the document's content.  (good for the validation of income though, so let's not complain too much)

 

If I weren't sick from a cold I would have got a really good laugh this morning at the antics of my darling wife asking me in various ways, including waving and jumping up and down, "don't you understand this is the Thai way?  Don't you understand this is Thailand?  What's the matter with you??????????

[TGIR]

29 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

TGIR

 

I am still confused as to why your wife is doing annual extensions if she is a Thai citizen.

 

Why even bother?

Briggsy, the only reason I can support is that she is more proud to be an American than to be a Thai. 

[BEVUP]

21 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

She only needs to change the ID card to your family name so it matches what is on her US passport.

Who told you she needs to notify the embassy. That is not correct.

Exactly

& one would think if she was a Naturalized American she would have a card for America & since being Thai no doubt have one for here 

I think the Thai ID card is just for the clarrification of the Blue book comfirming address

[Evilbaz]

Your wife is getting bad advice from someone.

 

If a Thai living in Thailand there is no advantage in being "a Falang" - except for perhaps "Face".

[Briggsy]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Having entered on a US passport, and given an appropriate permission to stay, what should she do when her permission to stay expires? Yes, it would have been better to enter Thailand using a Thai passport, but this was not done. If never intending to leave Thailand again, she could, perhaps, just go on technical overstay of her permission to stay, but I am sure there would be serious complications if she then ever wanted to use her US passport to leave Thailand.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

Would the "serious complications" be a 20,000 Baht fine? Surely even the illogical immigration rules could not then add on a 5-year ban for a Thai citizen for overstaying!

 

All this of course then begs the question why ever use the American passport to leave Thailand?

[BritTim]

14 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

Would the "serious complications" be a 20,000 Baht fine? Surely even the illogical immigration rules could not then add on a 5-year ban for a Thai citizen for overstaying!

 

All this of course then begs the question why ever use the American passport to leave Thailand?

The main complication would be proving to the immigration official's satisfaction that the person named in the US passport is the same as the Thai person with a different name on a Thai ID card. I am not saying it makes sense, but that can be a real issue. At a minimum, I would not be in the least surprised if the originally intended flight had departed before it was all sorted out.

 

I must admit to being curious as to why the lady does not have a Thai passport, usually cheaply and quickly accomplished. There may be a wrinkle here we are not yet privy to.

[Maestro]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

must admit to being curious as to why the lady does not have a Thai passport, usually cheaply and quickly accomplished. There may be a wrinkle here we are not yet privy to.

 

I'm not sure if it has been said that the OP's wife has no Thai passport, but the OP explained early on in this topic that his wife takes pride in being a US citizen formerly known as a Thai citizen, and there is nothing wrong with a dual national taking this kind of pride in her new nationality. The additional requirements reportedly imposed on the wife for this year's dependent extension are hare-brained and totally unreasonable, even impractical and probably impossible to comply with.

 

An easy an inexpensive way to put this type of obstructive government official in his place is to call his bluff and report him to the government ombudsman at 

• hotline: 1676
• phone: +66 2141 9100
• fax: +66 2143-8341
• mail or in person: The Office of the Ombudsman Thailand 5th Floor, Ratthaprasasanabhakti Building, The Government Complex Commemorating His Majesty The King’s 80th Birthday Anniversary, 5th December B.E. 2550 (2007) (briefly “The Government Complex”) 
  120 Moo 3, Chaengwattana Road, Tungsonghong Sub-District, Laksi District, Bangkok 10210
• web page: http://www.ombudsman.go.th/10/eng/howtocomplaint.asp

I have seen a number of news reports indicating that the ombudsman acts swiftly on such complaints, in some cases even the Prime Minister getting involved.

[Maestro]

Another useful government complaint centre is the following:

• Office of Permanent Secretary, Office of the Prime Minister, P.O. Box 1111, Bangkok
• hotline: 1111
• email: [email protected]
• website: www.1111.go.th

 

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Maestro
corrected email address

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 11/08/2017 at 11:35 AM, Tanoshi said:

In theory Yes, in practice, No.

 

When the Thai tries to re-enter using their Thai ID, they have no exit stamp, or entry card.

The puzzled IO asks how they managed to leave the Country.

Foreign passport, with exit stamp.

The IO insists that since they left on a foreign passport and there is no record of departing as a Thai, the same passport must be used to re-enter, and so the circle continues.

Not in my (admittedly limited) experience. My daughter obtained a Thai passport in Thailand, having entered on her UK passport. She left on her UK passport and later returned on her Thai passport with no real problems. I wasn't with her when she returned so I don't know exactly how the conversation went but apparently, although the IO was a little puzzled at first, she was able to enter on the Thai passport without any major issues.

[OJAS]

23 hours ago, TGIR said:

Nice to see you are still not paying attention.

In common with everyone else, it would seem.

 

I am at a complete loss to understand why you are still posting on here if, as you said, every single one of us "missed the point of the post".

 

[Tanoshi]

Not unusual for Thais to have their names spelt differently on various documents.

The spelling doesn't appear to be of any importance here.

 

Different matter when your submitting those same documents to any overseas Immigration department.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Tanoshi

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

In common with everyone else, it would seem.

 

I am at a complete loss to understand why you are still posting on here if, as you said, every single one of us "missed the point of the post".

 

I think part of the problem here is that the OP did not make it clear from the outset that his wife had entered Thailand on her US passport and has been living here on extensions of stay ever since. I certainly did not get that impression from his first post. Other people, by about the third page of the thread, had managed to read between the lines and figure out that's the situation was but the OP didn't make a clear and definitive statement to that fact, he kind of danced around it and hinted at it until eventually it became somewhat clearer.

 

I think anyone who did not immediatley grasp the full import of what he was saying could be forgiven, given the vague nature of most of the earlier posts. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by GroveHillWanderer
clarification

[Maestro]

5 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Not in my (admittedly limited) experience. My daughter obtained a Thai passport in Thailand, having entered on her UK passport. She left on her UK passport and later returned on her Thai passport with no real problems. I wasn't with her when she returned so I don't know exactly how the conversation went but apparently, although the IO was a little puzzled at first, she was able to enter on the Thai passport without any major issues.

 

The recommended procedure in a case like your daughter's would be to carry also the old Thai passport with the last exit stamp from Thailand and when entering Thailand show both the old and the new passport to the immigration officials.

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

 

The recommended procedure in a case like your daughter's would be to carry also the old Thai passport with the last exit stamp from Thailand and when entering Thailand show both the old and the new passport to the immigration officials.

I'm not sure I follow - my daughter didn't have an old Thai passport, this was her first ever Thai passport. Previously, she had only had UK passports. As mentioned, she didn't have any particular problems entering with a Thai passport with no exit stamp, despite some initial confusion on the part of the IO.

[TGIR]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

In common with everyone else, it would seem.

 

I am at a complete loss to understand why you are still posting on here if, as you said, every single one of us "missed the point of the post".

 

I'm posting for fun.......and to let you all know you missed the point.  Why are you still posting here?

 

 

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I'm not sure I follow - my daughter didn't have an old Thai passport, this was her first ever Thai passport. Previously, she had only had UK passports. As mentioned, she didn't have any particular problems entering with a Thai passport with no exit stamp, despite some initial confusion on the part of the IO.

 

 

I see. Your daughter got a UK passport first and travelled with that until she later got her Thai passport. Somewhat unusual, but nothing legally wrong with that.

 

The immigration officer was initially a bit confused because for a Thai national born in Thailand, the first stamp in her passport is usually a Thai exit stamp. This is assuming that your daughter was born in Thailand, since you did not mention her place of birth. You see, your daughter's Thai passport has no information that she also has a UK passport with which she left Thailand, hence the immigration official's initial confusion. Quite understandable, I should think.